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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 03-22-2013, 6:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bodger View Post
Sometimes I think Feinstein and Biden and the rest actually believe that they can disarm us without consequence, and we are just sheeple that will go along with their intent to s**t on the Constitution for the "greater good".
And they are right to believe that, because that is precisely what has happened in every other nation that has proceeded down this path in the last 100 years.

What in the world makes people think that those here in the U.S. will behave any differently than anyone else when the chips are down?


The founders of this country were extraordinary people compared to those you find today. And they were the leaders of their society at the time, in contrast with like-minded people of today. Today's "leaders" have views that are the polar opposite of those of the founders, while those who have the views of the founders have no real power at all (hence the impotence of the Libertarian party).


No, against the slow, suffocating march of "progressivism" and the endless flow of new restrictions that come with it, there has historically been only one solution that has ever worked: violent revolution. And that won't work because the government has all the guns that really matter (not to mention bombs, missiles, planes, drones, satellite surveillance, etc.).
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  #42  
Old 03-22-2013, 6:55 PM
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wow, that's a great compliment. Thank you.

more importantly, I'm glad you get it
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  #43  
Old 03-22-2013, 7:13 PM
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When Lithuania declared it's independence from the Soviet Union in the early 1990's, there were home made guns that were a part of that revolt. It is not possible to disarm the US. Underground machine shops would become as common as moonshine stills during prohibition. They can come take the registered firearms that they can find, but that's it. And I suspect a lot of those would end up "lost" somewhere. Unfortunately such a situation would make guns into exactly what the liberals want them to be.....not for fun, for collecting, for target shooting and customization, but to fight the government. A self- fulfilling prophecy. See, they would say, we always knew guns were only owned in order to kill people.
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  #44  
Old 03-22-2013, 7:27 PM
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Beautifully written and expressed, I wish more people understood what is actually at stake.

Whatever you believe about the current crop of government, you do need to understand why the constitution was written, why it is of vital importance, and why above all else there can be NO compromise of it. For my part, there will be no confiscation at my property, as long as I am alive. End of story.

Do what you must, but do it because you have strong beliefs. Not because you think it might not matter.
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  #45  
Old 03-22-2013, 7:34 PM
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Originally Posted by LBDamned View Post

Having that been said - the act of disarming, and in a sense, forcing someone to become a victim -will entice survival instinct within many (even though they may use logic such as "freedoms" and "rights" to justify their actions and that's okay)...
And this is the place from where the 'RIGHT' springs. It is not the constitution, it is not the thousands who have fought and died for freedom. As much as I love our constitution, it only articulates what by nature exists. As much love, respect, admiration, and gratitude I have for those who have fought, and bled, and died to prevent the infringement of the right; they did not create it or give it to us. They and the constitution can only seek to protect its free exercise. It comes to us by the simple fact that we exist.

P. S. I too think this is one of the best all time posts on CGN.
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  #46  
Old 03-22-2013, 7:48 PM
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Originally Posted by LuvLRBs View Post
When Lithuania declared it's independence from the Soviet Union in the early 1990's, there were home made guns that were a part of that revolt. It is not possible to disarm the US. Underground machine shops would become as common as moonshine stills during prohibition. They can come take the registered firearms that they can find, but that's it. And I suspect a lot of those would end up "lost" somewhere. Unfortunately such a situation would make guns into exactly what the liberals want them to be.....not for fun, for collecting, for target shooting and customization, but to fight the government. A self- fulfilling prophecy. See, they would say, we always knew guns were only owned in order to kill people.
Plus, guns are only one weapon, we live every day with objects and substances that are just as deadly, some more so. The mind is the ultimate weapon. The men who put the final end to WWII, and in so doing saved millions of Japanese and American lives, never fired a shot! The internet is a wonderful tool, all patriots should learn how to get the job done with whatever they have.
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  #47  
Old 03-22-2013, 7:56 PM
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guns....
what guns.....
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  #48  
Old 03-22-2013, 9:57 PM
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And this is the place from where the 'RIGHT' springs. It is not the constitution, it is not the thousands who have fought and died for freedom. As much as I love our constitution, it only articulates what by nature exists. As much love, respect, admiration, and gratitude I have for those who have fought, and bled, and died to prevent the infringement of the right; they did not create it or give it to us. They and the constitution can only seek to protect its free exercise. It comes to us by the simple fact that we exist.

P. S. I too think this is one of the best all time posts on CGN.
Yes sir. A much bigger (and fundamental) principal and truth. I like your statement that "It comes to us by the simple fact that we exist".

Thank you for the kind words too... that's quite an honor!
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  #49  
Old 03-22-2013, 11:12 PM
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A lot of this is basic neighborhood watch stuff which is real big in my area of Oceanside, Ca.

If a bunch of people showed up dressed in black with machine guns and flashy grenades they should really worry about getting shot in the back of the necks or rear pelvic areas by that same neighbor watch group.

In the civilized society of laws in which we live one is served warrants and this should be done in the light of day and not at 0500 AM.

Look how terrified those cops in LA were of that fat low achieving X navy/cop psycho 2 weeks back.. I think they will run out of steam pretty quick if they run into a really regulated and vigilant neighborhood watch group.

I say this with love toward cops and all oath keepers. I have had numerous LEO in my immediate family.

Peace to all and keep all 20 lbs of smokeless powder dry.

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  #50  
Old 03-23-2013, 9:35 AM
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Great another "they are out to get me" paranoid example of OT spreading to the rest of Cal Guns. They are not coming after your damm guns!!!! "They" meaning te people we elected to represent us could not even get an assault weapons ban passed. Almost 100 percent of what the anti gun crowd wanted did not see the light of day. Did we suffer some set backs? Yeah, but we won a lot too.

We are never going to get everything we want and they are never going to get everything they want; that's life. That's how it's supposed to work.

Stop being so damn paranoid, the whole world is not out to get us (you). If you look at the big picture, we have it pretty damm good here in America.
So, if I understand you correctly...a little 'infringement' was OK last time, a little more 'infringement' will be OK this time?

The 'big picture' is that they ARE coming for our guns...
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  #51  
Old 03-23-2013, 9:50 AM
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Blah blah blah, the author has no idea how to resist an oppressive government. Dying "in a pile of brass" is an attractive apocalypse fantasy but is of no use. You won't win a 1-on-SWAT fight
I personally am glad that you, in any previous life, were not an adviser to the to the militiamen who fired the opening shots of the American Revolution at Lexington Common against superior British forces in 1775.
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  #52  
Old 03-23-2013, 9:53 AM
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I personally am glad that you, in any previous life, were not an adviser to the to the militiamen who fired the opening shots of the American Revolution at Lexington Common against superior British forces in 1775.
Read a book. The militia did not fire anything resembling an "opening shot".

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Any American who isn't on a government watch list should be ashamed of themselves.
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  #53  
Old 03-23-2013, 10:00 AM
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Unfortunately, with laws prohibiting military style training, a loan Patriot holding off SWAT is probably all the news will report. I have my doubts about any real Revolution. militias and paintballers are probably already under FBI surveillance.
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  #54  
Old 03-23-2013, 10:12 AM
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A lot of people are concerned that our government is becoming a fascist regime,
I have news for people-this has already happened, it is just subtle, hidden, done in stealth, our politicians are bought and paid for and puppets on a string,
there is a hidden government within the government that pulls the strings of society,
we have a CIA that is the assasination/black op section of the government that murders, kidnaps, tortures, overturn governments, assasinates foreign leaders, etc.
We have a private banking cartel (Federal Reserve, there is nothing Federal about it, it is privately owned ) that controls our money and credit, inflation, etc. and is a criminal entity (The FR is owned by foreign banks-your bailout went to foreigners),
Massive government spying is taking place on your emails, phone calls, cell phone calls, internet etc.
We have a news/information system that is owned and controlled by major corporations, that censors and limits information through the major news outlets,
much of very important news is not broadcast in this country,
This is not conspiracy theory, you cannot question the major false flag operations going on from the Gulf of Tonkin incident, the Kennedy assassination (Bobby), Northfield Documents (Cuba),
we already have gun confiscations going on in limited instances, e.g., Katrina, and we are on the verge of actual wholesale gun confiscation,
and new laws that turn millions of citizens into criminals,
so think twice before you start calling some of these scenarios "conspiracy"

sunaj

Last edited by sunaj; 03-23-2013 at 10:16 AM..
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  #55  
Old 03-23-2013, 10:18 AM
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The thing that no one wants to think about is it won't be the politicians that come knocking on the door. But if I write further, I'll just be labeled a hater. I don't care, I just don't want to start a Sh*tstorm in someone elses thread.
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  #56  
Old 03-23-2013, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
And they are right to believe that, because that is precisely what has happened in every other nation that has proceeded down this path in the last 100 years.

What in the world makes people think that those here in the U.S. will behave any differently than anyone else when the chips are down?


The founders of this country were extraordinary people compared to those you find today. And they were the leaders of their society at the time, in contrast with like-minded people of today. Today's "leaders" have views that are the polar opposite of those of the founders, while those who have the views of the founders have no real power at all (hence the impotence of the Libertarian party).


No, against the slow, suffocating march of "progressivism" and the endless flow of new restrictions that come with it, there has historically been only one solution that has ever worked: violent revolution. And that won't work because the government has all the guns that really matter (not to mention bombs, missiles, planes, drones, satellite surveillance, etc.).
This is what is most frightening about what is happening right now. It seems like the majority of the people will go along with whatever the government decides to dish out.
I guess you are right, they are correct in believing that they can do whatever they want. Sickening, but probably true.
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  #57  
Old 03-23-2013, 10:28 AM
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The thing that no one wants to think about is it won't be the politicians that come knocking on the door. But if I write further, I'll just be labeled a hater. I don't care, I just don't want to start a Sh*tstorm in someone elses thread.
I suppose it will be LEO, or military that comes, if they come. And I don't believe all this "oathkeeper" buls**t we hear. If the stuff is hitting the fan, there will be plenty of military and LEOs who won't give a damn about the Constitution if keeping their oath means they might end up on the losing side of things, having THEIR doors kicked in.

Katrina showed us a lot.
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  #58  
Old 03-23-2013, 11:41 AM
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very powerful article...I'm sure alot of us have been asking ourselves this question lately but reading this article help me realize what I would do if placed in this situation then my response would be...Give me Liberty or give me death!!!

Last edited by jpkar; 03-23-2013 at 11:59 AM..
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  #59  
Old 03-23-2013, 11:55 AM
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Great another "they are out to get me" paranoid example of OT spreading to the rest of Cal Guns.
.
^ That. It's no wonder much of the public views us as crackpots. The longer I'm here the more I understand why the government worries about some people bearing arms.
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  #60  
Old 03-23-2013, 12:03 PM
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Default If they come, we Volunteered for it.

Many of the people who gripe the most about the government coming for their guns are doing nothing to stop it.

The sad reality is most firearms owners refuse to do ANYTHING.

The fight for gun rights is being carried by a "few", not all. Of course I am preaching to the choir on this, but that is the problem.

Look at your children, do you want them to be "Orphans"?

I don't want my kids to be "Orphans", but I don't want to surrender "all my arms" either because surrendering of my arms is not just surrendering my guns, it is surrendering my "rights".

Once we surrender our guns, we go from "potentially free citizens" to full blown "government owned subjects".

I use the world "potential" instead of "sovereign" because we have already surrendered our rights.

Nicki
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  #61  
Old 03-23-2013, 12:09 PM
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. Sometimes I think Feinstein and Biden and the rest actually believe that they can disarm us without consequence, and we are just sheeple that will go along with their intent to s**t on the Constitution for the "greater good".
sure they do. they saw what happened in England and Australia both countries disarmed their people after mass shootings. SH was no different they used that one to push the agenda as far and wide as possible. they have let their plan out of registration and then confiscation. it's no secret anymore. we can use their words against them in Youtube videos to spread their agenda on Facebook and other media. let the gun banners think their lie of not infringing on those who follow the law go unnoticed.

their endgame is confiscation period.

im sending 20 bucks to CGF today. it's not much but it's what I can afford to donate. every little bit counts.
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  #62  
Old 03-23-2013, 12:19 PM
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I suppose it will be LEO, or military that comes, if they come. And I don't believe all this "oathkeeper" buls**t we hear. If the stuff is hitting the fan, there will be plenty of military and LEOs who won't give a damn about the Constitution if keeping their oath means they might end up on the losing side of things, having THEIR doors kicked in.

Katrina showed us a lot.
Oh, that's what that Civilian Defense Force Obama was talking about was. To protect folks like us. Of course it would have to exist underground right now collecting preemptive intelligence and strategies. Probably composed of anonymous cells. It would look alot like urban warfare in Iraq. Fiction of course. But details are in an upcoming novel.
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  #63  
Old 03-23-2013, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by AragornElessar86 View Post
Read a book. The militia did not fire anything resembling an "opening shot".

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No one knows who fired the "shot heard round the world" there are pet theories and speculation. But the militia did fire the opening American shots, whether in offense or defense or by accident, no one knows. But they did stand and deliver at least one volley. Can you imagine the guts that took?
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  #64  
Old 03-23-2013, 12:37 PM
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^ That. It's no wonder much of the public views us as crackpots. The longer I'm here the more I understand why the government worries about some people bearing arms.

If that is your position; this is also a poor choice of forums for you.
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:44 PM
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I don't want my kids to be "Orphans", but I don't want to surrender "all my arms" either because surrendering of my arms is not just surrendering my guns, it is surrendering my "rights".

Nicki
Nicki:

A word to the wise. If you don't want your kids to be orphans, don't do what the brave men at Lexington did. Think it out. Nuff said.

Mike
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:53 PM
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While an inspiration read, the scenario of blunt gun confiscation is a long ways off from coming to fruition.

We have been suffering under slow gun confiscation for nearly 100 years thorugh small encroachments and grandfather clauses. "Sure, you can keep your gun, but no new ones can be bought, sold or manufactured."

They are not coming to get your guns. That would be political suicide and incredibly dumb. They are coming for your childrens and their childrens. Each law that is passed eventually becomes the new accepted normal and at that point new small encroaching restrictions can be made and eventually normalized. By the time the govenrment actually decides they need to confiscate guns (if it ever comes to that point, in all likelyhood they will just slowly be regulated out of existence), your grandchildren will either not care or will be so overwhelemed and out gunned by the prevailing mindset and military arms that resisting would be suicide.

We have already lost much of our gun rights and "shall not be infringed" has been blatantly violated. It is my right to own, make, and sell a fully automatic machine gun, but that right is denied in this country.

I don't mean to be negative (I think the gun rights community has made great strides in recent years), but I just want to point out that the scenario the author has foisted has already happened and is curently going on. The real battle is for us to influence future generations.

Last edited by chicoredneck; 03-23-2013 at 12:56 PM..
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Old 03-23-2013, 1:09 PM
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I think you are better off to live and resist in other ways if this does happen. To die in a blaze of glory may sound good but it just gives them justification that gun owners are anti-government and violent and all need to be "taken out". The thing that brought the Soviet Union down was passive-aggressive resistance, covert not overt.
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Old 03-23-2013, 1:21 PM
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I think you are better off to live and resist in other ways if this does happen. To die in a blaze of glory may sound good but it just gives them justification that gun owners are anti-government and violent and all need to be "taken out". The thing that brought the Soviet Union down was passive-aggressive resistance, covert not overt.
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Old 03-23-2013, 1:23 PM
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Wow, powerful statements, thank you.
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Old 03-23-2013, 1:39 PM
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If that is your position; this is also a poor choice of forums for you.
Yeah, either get in lock step with the vocal few here or go away!!!!!
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Old 03-23-2013, 2:23 PM
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Originally Posted by greg36f View Post
Yeah, either get in lock step with the vocal few here or go away!!!!!
Not really. In this political environment, being concerned about the possibility of outright firearms confiscation isn't completely tin foil hat paranoia. PoorChoiceofUserName claimed this is why the public views gunowners as crackpots and why the government "worries about some people bearing arms."

Should we all just buy a shotgun and STFU?
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Old 03-23-2013, 2:42 PM
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The varying viewpoints in this thread prove that the "gun community" or "gun owners" are not a monolithic entity. Some of us are hobbyists; some are hunters. Some are competition folks; some just like weapons. We come from all walks of life, all political affiliations. We all deserve to protect and defend ourselves. That right is sacrosanct!

Americans in a classical sense are anti-government(at least the Anti-Federalists). That is the foundation of the Constitution, to limit the scope and breadth of our governing bodies. Yet, we see the constant erosion of our rights while our government continues infringement.

It is our duty to remain constantly vigilant not consistently subservient.
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Old 03-23-2013, 2:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunaj View Post
A lot of people are concerned that our government is becoming a fascist regime,
I have news for people-this has already happened, it is just subtle, hidden, done in stealth, our politicians are bought and paid for and puppets on a string,
there is a hidden government within the government that pulls the strings of society,
we have a CIA that is the assasination/black op section of the government that murders, kidnaps, tortures, overturn governments, assasinates foreign leaders, etc.
We have a private banking cartel (Federal Reserve, there is nothing Federal about it, it is privately owned ) that controls our money and credit, inflation, etc. and is a criminal entity (The FR is owned by foreign banks-your bailout went to foreigners),
Massive government spying is taking place on your emails, phone calls, cell phone calls, internet etc.
We have a news/information system that is owned and controlled by major corporations, that censors and limits information through the major news outlets,
much of very important news is not broadcast in this country,
This is not conspiracy theory, you cannot question the major false flag operations going on from the Gulf of Tonkin incident, the Kennedy assassination (Bobby), Northfield Documents (Cuba),
we already have gun confiscations going on in limited instances, e.g., Katrina, and we are on the verge of actual wholesale gun confiscation,
and new laws that turn millions of citizens into criminals,
so think twice before you start calling some of these scenarios "conspiracy"

sunaj

Agree. Ineresting how some erst-while folks can be so foolish to assert "it will never happen here" and "too many safeguards built into the system here" blahblah. We are ONE . . . . ONE SCOTUS vote away from becoming the 7 headed monster we fled the crown for. Safeguards?? WHAT safeguards? they are all owned by various special and hidden interests.
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Old 03-23-2013, 5:29 PM
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Originally Posted by chicoredneck View Post
While an inspiration read, the scenario of blunt gun confiscation is a long ways off from coming to fruition.

We have been suffering under slow gun confiscation for nearly 100 years thorugh small encroachments and grandfather clauses. "Sure, you can keep your gun, but no new ones can be bought, sold or manufactured."

They are not coming to get your guns. That would be political suicide and incredibly dumb. They are coming for your childrens and their childrens. Each law that is passed eventually becomes the new accepted normal and at that point new small encroaching restrictions can be made and eventually normalized. By the time the govenrment actually decides they need to confiscate guns (if it ever comes to that point, in all likelyhood they will just slowly be regulated out of existence), your grandchildren will either not care or will be so overwhelemed and out gunned by the prevailing mindset and military arms that resisting would be suicide.

We have already lost much of our gun rights and "shall not be infringed" has been blatantly violated. It is my right to own, make, and sell a fully automatic machine gun, but that right is denied in this country.

I don't mean to be negative (I think the gun rights community has made great strides in recent years), but I just want to point out that the scenario the author has foisted has already happened and is curently going on. The real battle is for us to influence future generations.
This is how it works.

The best resistance you can fight with is convincing people around you to support 2nd amendment rights, so the tide slowly turns back the other direction.

Say in an alternate universe, Brown signs a sweeping ban and directs agents to go collect. Armed officers of the law are at your door and have a seizure order for one or more of your guns. What do you do? You could:

1. Stall by claiming you don't have it. This will likely result in a future search warrant but buy you time.

2. Give up the gun and then file a lawsuit. You will probably lose the firearm forever, but may get to be party of one of the greatest Supreme Court decisions ever.

Or 3. Resist openly and open fire. Say you are a great shot and kill both agents. Now you are a murderer, and will very quickly be branded a Timothy McVeigh type terrorist and used as a talking point about why the law was needed in the first place. You will spend the rest of your life behind bars or as a fugitive. If you are unlucky, the agent might kill you first, and you'll be a now dead political talking point.

3 is a crappy option. Literal lone gunmen never bring about positive social change, just over reactions
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Old 03-23-2013, 5:44 PM
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I'm surprised by those that claim the intent of our politicians is not to disarm us through confication of our firearms. One need only look at the list of firearms in the proposed legislation at both the state and federal level that they want to ban outright or force us to register.

Ask California firearms owners what happened to the SKS rifles that got classified as assault weapons that they were allowed to register. Once the state knew where they were, confiscating them was easy.

I don't wear a tin foil hat but I will never register or willingly turn over my firearms.

My choice of signature was not made by mistake...
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Last edited by wazdat; 03-23-2013 at 5:49 PM..
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Old 03-23-2013, 6:47 PM
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Originally Posted by wazdat View Post
My choice of signature was not made by mistake...
As an aside, the domestic part was added after the Civil War which cemented the power of the federal government. Before 1861, the United States are; after 1865, the United States is.
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Old 03-23-2013, 7:07 PM
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It's coming and we all know it. Katrina showed us a prequel.
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Old 03-23-2013, 7:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodger View Post
If they do come for our guns, I believe the only thing that will make them think twice about confiscation is armed resistance, and a lot of bloodbaths.

I'm not convinced that the powers that be truly understand that they are flirting with disaster as they continue to push their anti-gun agendas. Sometimes I think Feinstein and Biden and the rest actually believe that they can disarm us without consequence, and we are just sheeple that will go along with their intent to s**t on the Constitution for the "greater good".

And they have Tanks.....
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Old 03-23-2013, 7:19 PM
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This thread rocks!!
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Old 03-23-2013, 7:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPimping View Post
It's coming and we all know it. Katrina showed us a prequel.


You mean the incident that was condemned nationwide and caused numerous laws to be passed preventing another occurrence. You mean the confiscation that was repeated over and over nationwide…..Oh, that’s right, it was not repeated.

That incident that stands out as a widely recognized stain on liberty. If that is what you are basing your fear of “they are coming to get me” paranoia, you probably need to look somewhere else.

No one is coming to get your guns.

Yeah, they are going to try to pass laws restricting your rights; and we will fight back and win some and lose some. A balance will be found and everyone will either be angry or happy. That's how it works.

Some people in this nation want ALL guns to be taken and destroyed. Some people in this nation want to be able to own tactical nuclear weapons in case the government comes to get you.

A balance will be found. That's how the founders set it up; like it or not.

All this Chicken Little crap serves no purpose.
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