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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 03-22-2013, 2:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigpen66m View Post
Why do people continue to say minorities hate guns. I'm a minority and I have a safe full of guns.
I am pretty sure that here in Kalifornia, at least so-Kal, the minorities are anglos and negroes. I am white, most my my acquaintances are white, black or persian, and we all enjoy firearms. That leaves asians and latinos.
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  #82  
Old 03-22-2013, 4:14 PM
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I am very familiar at the inner workings of these "polls" as I spent 12 years (started in the phone room and ended as director of data services) at a marketing research and consulting firm that served international clients. I was on the data collection and processing side, but I did get some experience in the interpretation side.

Unlike consumer satisfaction indexes, which can determine the success or failure of a company, most if not all of these political "polls" are skewed to get the answer that the client wants. Don't think that only one political party does it. Frank Luntz is an example of a "conservative" issues pollster. Do a search in youtube for the Penn and Teller Bullsh*t episode called Numbers.

Like the saying goes, the truth lies in the details and the truth in these types of "polls" consists of the verbatim questions asked, the raw data and demographics.

Just scanning over the crosstabs of this gun control poll, which is being used to imply that it is of the "overwhelming" opinion of all Californians, here are some notable data:

The poll had a sample size of 1501 which is .004% of the estimated 38,041,430 population of California (2012).

The regions listed for the poll were (no other details were given):
354 - L.A. County
449 - Southern California
248 - Bay Area
176 - Sacramento North
92 - Coast Central
182 -Central Valley

44% - 693 were registered democrats
29% - 475 were registered republicans
22% - 251 were dts/npp (no political party, i assume)
5% - 82 were other

68% - 1020 were NOT GUN OWNERS
26% - 390 were GUN OWNERS

19% - 125 democrats were GUN OWNERS
39% - 170 republicans were GUN OWNERS
23% - 76 dts/npp were GUN OWNERS
27% - 20 other were GUN OWNERS

In the end this poll is a moot point, as the issue being discussed is a RIGHT not subject to a popularity contest or mob rule.

It should be noted that the L.A. Times, which appears to have funded the above "poll", had 2 weeks ago run this editorial with no attributed author:

Peril from 'patriots'
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,2444361.story

The article heavily quotes Southern Poverty Law Center (which in itself has a shady history) and equates those who are concerned with gun rights as being neanderthals and conspiracy theorists and also lumps them in with terrorists.

Yup, the L.A. Times is just reporting the news and not pushing a political agenda. Move along.
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  #83  
Old 03-22-2013, 4:44 PM
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Originally Posted by hawk1 View Post
Brought to you by the Democrat party, YOUR party. The one that has f'd this state completely up...
according to some members who I will not mention by name but we know who they are Republicans are to blame.


and yes demoKrats F'd this state up.
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  #84  
Old 03-23-2013, 2:46 AM
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more like the country
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Originally Posted by hawk1 View Post
Brought to you by the Democrat party, YOUR party. The one that has f'd this state completely up...
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  #85  
Old 03-23-2013, 5:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammich View Post
I am very familiar at the inner workings of these "polls" as I spent 12 years (started in the phone room and ended as director of data services) at a marketing research and consulting firm that served international clients. I was on the data collection and processing side, but I did get some experience in the interpretation side.

Unlike consumer satisfaction indexes, which can determine the success or failure of a company, most if not all of these political "polls" are skewed to get the answer that the client wants. Don't think that only one political party does it. Frank Luntz is an example of a "conservative" issues pollster. Do a search in youtube for the Penn and Teller Bullsh*t episode called Numbers.

Like the saying goes, the truth lies in the details and the truth in these types of "polls" consists of the verbatim questions asked, the raw data and demographics.

Just scanning over the crosstabs of this gun control poll, which is being used to imply that it is of the "overwhelming" opinion of all Californians, here are some notable data:

The poll had a sample size of 1501 which is .004% of the estimated 38,041,430 population of California (2012).

The regions listed for the poll were (no other details were given):
354 - L.A. County
449 - Southern California
248 - Bay Area
176 - Sacramento North
92 - Coast Central
182 -Central Valley

44% - 693 were registered democrats
29% - 475 were registered republicans
22% - 251 were dts/npp (no political party, i assume)
5% - 82 were other

68% - 1020 were NOT GUN OWNERS
26% - 390 were GUN OWNERS

19% - 125 democrats were GUN OWNERS
39% - 170 republicans were GUN OWNERS
23% - 76 dts/npp were GUN OWNERS
27% - 20 other were GUN OWNERS

In the end this poll is a moot point, as the issue being discussed is a RIGHT not subject to a popularity contest or mob rule.

It should be noted that the L.A. Times, which appears to have funded the above "poll", had 2 weeks ago run this editorial with no attributed author:

Peril from 'patriots'
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,2444361.story

The article heavily quotes Southern Poverty Law Center (which in itself has a shady history) and equates those who are concerned with gun rights as being neanderthals and conspiracy theorists and also lumps them in with terrorists.

Yup, the L.A. Times is just reporting the news and not pushing a political agenda. Move along.
The new gospel according to the LA Times... Which has become little more than a tabloid these days.

What happened to California?
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  #86  
Old 03-23-2013, 6:16 AM
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Originally Posted by SanPedroShooter View Post
The new gospel according to the LA Times... Which has become little more than a tabloid these days.

What happened to California?
According to Bweise, nothing. We're in great shape, plenty of money, just paying out too much to the feds.

Kool-Aid anyone?...
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  #87  
Old 03-23-2013, 8:26 AM
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Most Californians don't even know what gun control laws we already have. It's like asking asking blind people to describe colors. (No offense to the blind. I'm visually impaired myself)

Ask the people to describe the gun purchasing process in CA, or the storage requirements, or best ever, the "assault weapons" features.

You get blank stares, and about 34.5 million "I don't know" answers
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Last edited by Nick Justice; 03-23-2013 at 8:30 AM..
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  #88  
Old 03-23-2013, 3:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigpen66m View Post
Why do people continue to say minorities hate guns. I'm a minority and I have a safe full of guns.
I am a minority in the PRK too: I'm White. And worse, I am a minority within the White minority because I won guns.
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Last edited by advocatusdiaboli; 03-23-2013 at 3:36 PM..
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  #89  
Old 03-23-2013, 3:35 PM
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Originally Posted by sammich View Post
In the end this poll is a moot point, as the issue being discussed is a RIGHT not subject to a popularity contest or mob rule.
I think the Caliban in Sacred Tomato has other ideas: they are a mob and they make the rules.
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"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
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  #90  
Old 03-23-2013, 3:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard chese View Post
Sadly, average joe now wheres skinny jeans, drinks martinis, looks like he could be a homosexual, and voted for DOO DOO BROWN
Quit pickin' on TRICKSTER!




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  #91  
Old 03-23-2013, 3:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
LOL
Tons of minorities out there with guns, they don't 'control' CA either the public employee unions do which is our biggest problem.
So wrong on it's face.

When did the unions create the laws that are ruining this state? WHen did the unions make their own retirement plans into law and spend, spend, spend? Um, they didn't?

Right—the unions didn't do it. The legislature did. State and municipal governments did. Elected officials did this. THEY gave the unions the money, the fat retirement, and the power. The unions didn't take it by force—it was handed to them. And how did we get a legislature and state and municipal governments that over-spend? Liberal voters gave it to them. Want to know where the problem really is? Look in the mirror and stop passing the buck.
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"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
-- John Dean "Jeff" Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

Last edited by advocatusdiaboli; 03-23-2013 at 3:47 PM..
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  #92  
Old 03-23-2013, 3:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MolonLabe2008 View Post
I questioning the OP's motive.
Let me guess, you are a Democrat?
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"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
-- John Dean "Jeff" Cooper, The Art of the Rifle
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  #93  
Old 03-23-2013, 3:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk1 View Post
You very well may be a gun owner (my opinion is you are not, but that's only based on your ZERO iTrader history),
talk about the wrong yardstick—I am a veteran, NRA life member, CRPA life member, and own a lot of guns yet I have a zero iTrader history and probably never will have one. You doubting me too now?
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"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
-- John Dean "Jeff" Cooper, The Art of the Rifle
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  #94  
Old 03-23-2013, 4:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli View Post
talk about the wrong yardstick—I am a veteran, NRA life member, CRPA life member, and own a lot of guns yet I have a zero iTrader history and probably never will have one. You doubting me too now?
meh, I said, my opinion. I'm entitled to it, and have no issue saying why I have it. I've been wrong before,

Now back to your regularly scheduled program...
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  #95  
Old 03-23-2013, 5:06 PM
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i love how they mention background checks as if there arn't any already.
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  #96  
Old 03-23-2013, 7:48 PM
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if they want us to do it like a drivers licence and insurance a ccw should also be handed out.
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  #97  
Old 03-23-2013, 8:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvLRBs View Post
This is a HATE campaign. Pure hate. If the majority of gun owners were black, or the majority Hispanic, or the majority Asian, the media and politicians would be screaming RACISM all over the place. I have never in my life seen anything like this. We're not talking about one or two laws here, we're talking about making life absolutely miserable for a subgroup of society with a large number of punitive laws against people who have broken no law. They are simply hated by the now majority. I sure wish a few Latino leaders would come forward and speak out against this hatred instead of fueling the fires of it.
Inadvertently through the disarming of the gun population you disarm everyone. Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Whites, etc. have a lot to lose.

The 2ndA is a stop clause against the rise of a tyrannical government.
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Ahhhhhhhhhhh! Man that was some great Kool-Aid.......... hmmmmmm theres a hint of something metallic. Oh well guess I will get on with the voting.

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So if you do ban me you will hear from my lawyer as to why you think you can violate peoples civil rights
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Oh for ****s sake, now there are two of them.This is the type of **** anti's point to when they want to make us all look crazy.
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  #98  
Old 03-23-2013, 8:30 PM
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Originally Posted by pigpen66m View Post
Why do people continue to say minorities hate guns. I'm a minority and I have a safe full of guns.
Me too...i'm white
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  #99  
Old 03-23-2013, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by pigpen66m View Post
Why do people continue to say minorities hate guns. I'm a minority and I have a safe full of guns.
He meant to say the majority of your minority group.
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  #100  
Old 03-23-2013, 8:49 PM
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Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli View Post
So wrong on it's face.

When did the unions create the laws that are ruining this state? WHen did the unions make their own retirement plans into law and spend, spend, spend? Um, they didn't?

Right—the unions didn't do it. The legislature did. State and municipal governments did. Elected officials did this. THEY gave the unions the money, the fat retirement, and the power. The unions didn't take it by force—it was handed to them.

You are conveniently leaving out the part about the public employee unions' buying of pols with campaign donations and then those same pols giving the taxpayers' money to the public employee unions in the form of grossly inflated wages and benefits.
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  #101  
Old 03-23-2013, 8:56 PM
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I could never figure out why the extreme left-wing Los Angeles Times is located and does their printing in the much hated Republican Orange County?

Can someone please answer this for me. Especially the liberal so called gun-owners who get their news from the extreme left-wing Los Angeles Times.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Los Angeles Times
1375 W Sunflower Ave
Costa Mesa, CA 92626

Google Maps
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  #102  
Old 03-23-2013, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by hawk1 View Post
TYou very well may be a gun owner (my opinion is you are not, but that's only based on your ZERO iTrader history)...

<snipped>
Wow, you when full retard with that comment. I guess everyone with zero iTrader history isn't a gun owner. You're embarrassing yourself; back away from the keyboard before you say something else stupid.

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  #103  
Old 03-23-2013, 10:36 PM
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The bought and paid for union owned liberal political hacks are gong to pass whatever asinine gun control crap they want...

Just remember libtards:

The half of us paying for everything -
Will not defend the other half -
From the tyrants you love -
With the guns you hate...
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  #104  
Old 03-23-2013, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli View Post
So wrong on it's face.

When did the unions create the laws that are ruining this state? WHen did the unions make their own retirement plans into law and spend, spend, spend? Um, they didn't?

Right—the unions didn't do it. The legislature did. State and municipal governments did. Elected officials did this. THEY gave the unions the money, the fat retirement, and the power. The unions didn't take it by force—it was handed to them. And how did we get a legislature and state and municipal governments that over-spend? Liberal voters gave it to them. Want to know where the problem really is? Look in the mirror and stop passing the buck.
Yeah - The CA government employees union contributed $30 million to Browns campaign - Then a multi-billion dollar 50yr high speed rail project from one crap hole to another gets pushed through.

Not to mention the bullcrap Prop 30 - Which personally costs me thousands more since it was retroactive back to Jan 2012.

Great return on your investment - If you are inside the union-politician-taxpayer funds money laundering scheme.

Makes for great empty rhetoric to regurgitate to your liberal friends - If you are a low income liberal yourself or an illegal getting benefits.

Sucks donkey balls for those of us actually paying for it all.

Enjoy it - Most of the tax paying citizens and veterans actually generating your gravy train are making plans to leave.

And watch for the legislative maneuvering to get around Prop 13 next -

You all just screwed your parents out of equity when the next property tax foreclosure wave hits -

And you doubled the cost of someday buying your own home.

Reap it.......
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  #105  
Old 03-23-2013, 11:15 PM
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People fear things they don't understand. People that don't understand are easy to pick out...just look at how they hold guns, what they say about them, and how they portray their owners! They skew facts to create more fear in those that don't understand, and drive them to their cause.
Every time I have taken someone to the range, explained guns to them, and showed them safe, fun shooting, they have changed their opinion.
We need to make it a point to show and teach our friends and family, about guns and remove that fear.
Knowledge is Power!


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  #106  
Old 03-24-2013, 11:21 AM
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What PO'd me about reading this article was that it said even CA gun owners were in favor of stricter gun laws. IF this is true I will be moving out of the state I adopted to find another state to adopt.
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  #107  
Old 03-24-2013, 1:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Commiefornia View Post
What PO'd me about reading this article was that it said even CA gun owners were in favor of stricter gun laws. IF this is true I will be moving out of the state I adopted to find another state to adopt.
I would take this "poll" with a Himalayan size grain of salt. They are deceiving by omission that this poll represents the opinions of ALL Californians. A sample size of 1501 equates to .004% of the total estimated population of California for 2012.. To put this in perspective, at the firm I worked at the sample size of a automotive customer satisfaction survey was 10k+ PER MONTH.

1020 polled WERE NOT GUN OWNERS and only 390 WERE GUN OWNERS. The crosstabs supplied by GQR DOES NOT have table of gun owner/non gun owner opinions on gun control. They do not have the raw data available.

You could just as easily go to OC gunshow today and ask 1020 people their opinions of gun control, then go to the mall and ask an addition 390 the same question. Slap a fancy company name on a letterhead, then write up a press release declaring that Californians overwhelmingly reject gun control.

Here is a hint of the agenda of who conducted this poll.

From the Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research site:

Who we are
http://www.gqrr.com/GQR/who-we-are/

"We specialize in political polling and campaign strategy, helping political candidates, parties, advocacy groups, and ballot initiatives succeed across the United States and around the globe."

"GQR remains committed to progressive goals, ideas, and leaders."

Here is info on the University of Southern California Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences:

http://dornsife.usc.edu/giving/

"At the USC Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences, we understand that to make an impact in today’s global society we must move beyond the classical silos of academia. Our faculty and students come together — across disciplines, across continents, across laboratories, libraries and art galleries — to create, transmit and translate knowledge for the good of humankind."

Sounds all warm and fuzzy doesn't it?

Last edited by sammich; 03-24-2013 at 1:33 PM.. Reason: add
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  #108  
Old 03-24-2013, 1:36 PM
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Keep trying to take apart the poll if you want. The results of California's last elections is proof enough most people support total disarmament. Were it not for the Supreme Court , this website would probably be banned in CA already, to say nothing about firearms period.
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  #109  
Old 03-24-2013, 1:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post
Keep trying to take apart the poll if you want. The results of California's last elections is proof enough most people support total disarmament. Were it not for the Supreme Court , this website would probably be banned in CA already, to say nothing about firearms period.
/This.

Half of California GUN OWNERS agree that background checks are a great deal, but interesting is the fact that CA has had mandatory background checks for the last umpteen years. No demonstrable studies to show they decrease crime.

In fact, states without the mandatory checks may have a lower gun crime rate than states with the checks.

Thanks to the arse buckets who think the checks are good for all.
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  #110  
Old 03-24-2013, 2:06 PM
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They recently published an anonymous editorial piece that classified the white firearm owner as terrorists so what do you expect?
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  #111  
Old 03-25-2013, 1:53 AM
sammich sammich is offline
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The reason why I have been "taking apart" this "poll" and exposing those behind it is so that the information can be used to counter the claims that it accurately represents the opinion of ALL Californians, but I guess I am just spinning my wheels. Or is it a case of tl:dr?

Here is an example of what gun owners are up against::

"Assault weapons—just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and plastic firearms—are a new topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons—anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun—can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons. In addition, few people can envision a practical use for these weapons."

-Josh Sugarmann, Executive Director and Founder of Violence Policy Center, Assault Weapons and Accessories in America, 1988

For the tl;dr ADHD crowd:
Sugarmann says to deceive and exploit gun ignorant people into supporting gun bans.

The strategy has to be expose the gun banners for the liars they are or employ propaganda to counter theirs. Either way it takes more than just passively reading posts on a gun forum. I have been trying to educate people about firearms for such a long time that I was around when that Sugarmann document was initially released. Unfortunately, over the last 10 years I have seen an increasing mentality in society of wanting immediate gratification or forget about it. That only works in video games.

Of course this is all just my opinion, which probably means nothing.
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  #112  
Old 03-25-2013, 7:05 AM
SilverTauron SilverTauron is offline
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Originally Posted by sammich View Post
The reason why I have been "taking apart" this "poll" and exposing those behind it is so that the information can be used to counter the claims that it accurately represents the opinion of ALL Californians, but I guess I am just spinning my wheels. Or is it a case of tl:dr?.

When confronted with information, we can prove the validity of the claim by comparing it to other channels of information. If it matches, then the theory has merit. If it contradicts proven sources, then the claim is probably false.

The claim in this case is that most Californian's support civil disarmament. When we look at the electoral record, the kinds of representatives people pick, the reactions of Law Enforcement vis a vis gun owners ( OMG HES GOT AN UNLOADED PISTOL ON HIS BELT!!! FELONY STOP w/EXTRA BACKUP STAT!!!) and the cultural attitudes of even California gun owners ( more background checks, please) , we can see that even if the poll is a load of bunk, its claim definitely has merit.

If it were put to a popular vote and the law were enforceable, California would have banned civil guns outright years ago.
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