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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #161  
Old 03-21-2013, 5:18 PM
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Here's a fresh thought, don't blindly follow either party. I don't know about you guys but I never aspired to be a "good little party member.

Ideologues and pundits are why we're stuck with a bunch of no good, do nothings in congress.

They'll keep right on doing nothing until they stop pandering to the moronic "all or nothing" elements of their party. IMO
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  #162  
Old 03-21-2013, 5:42 PM
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What do you mean by "conservative"?

I'm working at a public university after having completed graduate school (which included helping teach undergraduates) and am about to go to school again for another several years. I support free markets and reducing the size of government. Heck, if it were up to my I'd fire myself and eliminate the public education altogether but since they keep paying me I keep working here.

And yes, many UC professors hold radical Left views and are not afraid to indoctrinate their students with them. In turn, the students end up becoming radical Left graduate students, and they become radical Left professors, and so on and so forth.
"Conservative" is too broad a term, you're right to call me out on using it. I was referring to previous posts which denounced academia as being a liberal haven (which is not entirely untrue).
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  #163  
Old 03-21-2013, 6:03 PM
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I once had a trig Prof. that did some sort of proof showing that Noah and his family were the only ones that survived the flood, using avrage human propigation rates and current world population.


The guy was nutz
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  #164  
Old 03-21-2013, 7:18 PM
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I once had a trig Prof. that did some sort of proof showing that Noah and his family were the only ones that survived the flood, using avrage human propigation rates and current world population.


The guy was nutz
Actually....study of genetics and DNA, according to science, proved that there was some sort of disaster 70,000 yrs ago that wiped out the human population down to a very small group which survived. So your prof wasn't nuts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_bottleneck
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  #165  
Old 03-21-2013, 7:33 PM
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"Conservative" is too broad a term, you're right to call me out on using it. I was referring to previous posts which denounced academia as being a liberal haven (which is not entirely untrue).
Its Mr Neo Con to you tyvm!

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I'm obviously not talking about UC. It's not true for UC. But where did I mention UC? That's right - I didn't.

Try to see beyond your own circles once in a while.

Conservatives have the academia they deserve. They are constantly bashing it, and they see it as an unworthy occupation. So few conservatives get into it. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You reap what you sow.
Did you just admit liberals have a stranglehold on academia?

But back to the OP, they whine because in their world view all must adhere to their beliefs. Its the progressive mind set and it mystifies them that others can have a different view point.
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  #166  
Old 03-21-2013, 7:36 PM
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Did you just admit liberals have a stranglehold on academia?
They certainly dominate. There is no denying it. But again - that's because conservatives look down upon it, and let that near monopoly to liberals. That's why I can't take seriously those who whine about liberal academia brainwashing their children. It's not like many of them are doing something about it by going into academia themselves.
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  #167  
Old 03-21-2013, 7:37 PM
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Actually....study of genetics and DNA, according to science, proved that there was some sort of disaster 70,000 yrs ago that wiped out the human population down to a very small group which survived. So your prof wasn't nuts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_bottleneck
No, I am well aware of that. But promoting biblical accounts as plausable, in his line of work? That's nuts.
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  #168  
Old 03-21-2013, 7:40 PM
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No, I am well aware of that. But promoting biblical accounts as plausable, in his line of work? That's nuts.
Yup. Not as bad, but once I had a law professor telling us his Nam stories in class. I mean, it was cool, but man, we didn't get much done.
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  #169  
Old 03-21-2013, 7:42 PM
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democrats, republics.........theyre all the same......they all work together to gain overall control over our easily manipulated puny little minds.......bush obama, clinton... all same....mind control retards...
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  #170  
Old 03-21-2013, 7:42 PM
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dont be naive
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  #171  
Old 03-21-2013, 9:59 PM
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Wait, I'm confused. Am I supposed to vote for the lesser of two evils or the evil of two lessers? Is it better to get punched in the left eye or the right?
ps. I have codominate eyes when I shoot

Last edited by adamjay; 03-21-2013 at 10:01 PM.. Reason: Punctuation
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  #172  
Old 03-21-2013, 10:36 PM
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Vote for whomever does not vote for or introduce gun restriction legislation. See hwo easy that is?
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  #173  
Old 03-21-2013, 10:37 PM
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I am tired of all the conservatives that keep putting people like Reagan on a pedestal claiming him to be such a great politician when in reality he hurt California pretty bad. And never mind the fact he took away our gun rights.

Or my favorite is how all the gun laws in California are because of liberals when the majority of them were signed into law by republicans.

Like when they kicked out Davis and brought in Arnold. You replaced a democrat for a republican and we lost more gun rights.

So live with the fact that the republicans have taken away a lot of our gun rights in California. You voted for them!

Thank you for saying this. It boggles my mind how many of us refuse to aknowledge these basic facts.
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  #174  
Old 03-21-2013, 10:53 PM
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To those who believe that you should only vote on the one issue that is most important to you, I ask:

Would you vote for Obama if be was pro-gun and the other candidate was not (and other positions remained unchanged)?
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  #175  
Old 03-21-2013, 11:18 PM
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To those who believe that you should only vote on the one issue that is most important to you, I ask:

Would you vote for Obama if be was pro-gun and the other candidate was not (and other positions remained unchanged)?
Makeup of the legislative branch not withstanding.....As long as the 2nd remains intact we can secure the rest if need be.

I suggest Federalist #46 if you require further explanation.

There's a copy of it here: http://thedamntrueexperiment.blogspo...-all.html#more
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  #176  
Old 03-22-2013, 12:25 AM
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Wait, I'm confused. Am I supposed to vote for the lesser of two evils or the evil of two lessers? Is it better to get punched in the left eye or the right?
ps. I have codominate eyes when I shoot
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Vote for whomever does not vote for or introduce gun restriction legislation. See hwo easy that is?
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Makeup of the legislative branch not withstanding.....As long as the 2nd remains intact we can secure the rest if need be.

I suggest Federalist #46 if you require further explanation.

There's a copy of it here: http://thedamntrueexperiment.blogspo...-all.html#more
Really? So everything be damned but the 2nd? And how exactly are we currently securing with our intact 2nd what is lost by these 2 parties? There are other important issues, no?
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  #177  
Old 03-22-2013, 6:51 AM
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Really? So everything be damned but the 2nd? And how exactly are we currently securing with our intact 2nd what is lost by these 2 parties? There are other important issues, no?
There are other important issues, but it's ridiculous for a person to assert that he or she is a 2A supporter while, at the same time, voting for a candidate that is a well-known enemy of the 2A.

I'm not sure what others meant about the 2 party system so I'll let them answer that part of your question.
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  #178  
Old 03-22-2013, 7:36 AM
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There are other important issues, but it's ridiculous for a person to assert that he or she is a 2A supporter while, at the same time, voting for a candidate that is a well-known enemy of the 2A.

I'm not sure what others meant about the 2 party system so I'll let them answer that part of your question.
I agree, you can't vote for a person who is an enemy to your beliefs.
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  #179  
Old 03-22-2013, 8:02 AM
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I agree, you can't vote for a person who is an enemy to your beliefs.
The second amendment is not a "belief." Currently, it is the only enumerated civil right under fire.

It is a shame that a civil right takes second stage to other things like abortion, etc., that, while they don't stand a snowball chance's in hell of changing anytime soon, sure make the voter feel warm and fuzzy about having voted on "beliefs."

Voting for what's right by virtue of priority versus what feels good are two very different things.
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  #180  
Old 03-22-2013, 8:08 AM
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... Voting for what's right by virtue of priority versus what feels good are two very different things.
Nicely put, and well-encapsulated.
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  #181  
Old 03-22-2013, 8:14 AM
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The second amendment is not a "belief." Currently, it is the only enumerated civil right under fire.

It is a shame that a civil right takes second stage to other things like abortion, etc., that, while they don't stand a snowball chance's in hell of changing anytime soon, sure make the voter feel warm and fuzzy about having voted on "beliefs."

Voting for what's right by virtue of priority versus what feels good are two very different things.
It's a damned shame that anyone would even feel the need to infer that the RKBA is more important than stopping abortion. Odd how the 2A is not keeping the 3,000+ kids/day from being murdered in the USA.

Abortion is by far the greatest evil this world has ever seen (far worse than ANY war) yet we hear the same song-and-dance "without the 2A there are no other rights." Yeah, yeah, sure.

It's also sad to see people with no hope -- "they don't stand a snowball chance's in hell of changing anytime soon" -- I guess that comes from the same place the 2A apathy and whining comes from...

The "priority" is life and that trumps everything else. Without life there is no need for the RKBA. And no, the RKBA has not guaranteed life to the most vulnerable of our society -- the pre-born.
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  #182  
Old 03-22-2013, 8:26 AM
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It's a damned shame that anyone would even feel the need to infer that the RKBA is more important than stopping abortion. Odd how the 2A is not keeping the 3,000+ kids/day from being murdered in the USA.

Abortion is by far the greatest evil this world has ever seen (far worse than ANY war) yet we hear the same song-and-dance "without the 2A there are no other rights." Yeah, sure.

It's also sad to see people with no hope -- "they don't stand a snowball chance's in hell of changing anytime soon" -- I guess that comes from the same place the 2A apathy comes from...
I'm not inferring anything. AFAIK, there are no current court cases even challenging abortion at the national level and there haven't been for decades. The RKBA however, has been in constant assault at the state and federal levels. I am not pro-abortion if you must know, but I am a realist, and not very fond of going off-topic.
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  #183  
Old 03-22-2013, 8:46 AM
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I'm not inferring anything. AFAIK, there are no current court cases even challenging abortion at the national level and there haven't been for decades. The RKBA however, has been in constant assault at the state and federal levels. I am not pro-abortion if you must know, but I am a realist, and not very fond of going off-topic.
You're misinformed.

Hodgson v. Minnestota
Planned Parenthood v. Casey
Stenberg v. Carhart
Gonzales v. Carhart
Gonzales v. PPFA

And that's just SCOTUS since the 90s.
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  #184  
Old 03-22-2013, 8:48 AM
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I'm not inferring anything. AFAIK, there are no current court cases even challenging abortion at the national level and there haven't been for decades. The RKBA however, has been in constant assault at the state and federal levels. I am not pro-abortion if you must know, but I am a realist, and not very fond of going off-topic.
The reason for that is that Roe v Wade isn't going anywhere. The only way abortion is eliminated is by Constitutional Amendment which doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell and there isn't a politician living, dead or yet to be born that has the political will to take it on or the political capital to be successful if they did. In short...it ain't changing, ever.

2A however can be all but erased with a stroke of a pen and is currently under attack from every angle, local, state, federal and international.
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  #185  
Old 03-22-2013, 8:53 AM
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Amen, brother. No such thing as a pro-2A Democrat.
This.
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  #186  
Old 03-22-2013, 8:57 AM
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You're misinformed.

Hodgson v. Minnestota
Planned Parenthood v. Casey
Stenberg v. Carhart
Gonzales v. Carhart
Gonzales v. PPFA

And that's just SCOTUS since the 90s.
Thank you for the correction. Any current cases against abortion? Any chances that Roe vs. Wade could be overturned? If not, my main point still stands.

Any thoughts on the idea that the RKBA is not just a "belief" but a fundamental right that deserves a higher priority of protection that many of the other social concepts that people vote on?

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  #187  
Old 03-22-2013, 9:00 AM
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By your statements if you own a gun you should vote Rep. If only politics were that black and white.
Bull. if you're a gun owner you should vote libertarian.

Come to think of it, if you're not a gun owner you should vote libertarian.
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  #188  
Old 03-22-2013, 9:54 AM
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The second amendment is not a "belief." Currently, it is the only enumerated civil right under fire.

It is a shame that a civil right takes second stage to other things like abortion, etc., that, while they don't stand a snowball chance's in hell of changing anytime soon, sure make the voter feel warm and fuzzy about having voted on "beliefs."

Voting for what's right by virtue of priority versus what feels good are two very different things.
I mean my belief that that the constitution and bill of rights should be upheld. I'm not suggesting that civil rights should take second stage. I just think it is overly simplistic to say that whomever supports 2nd amendment rights deserves my vote regardless of other issues. Also, it seems to me that our civil rights are being erosively attacked on many fronts by both parties.
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  #189  
Old 03-22-2013, 9:56 AM
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I'm not inferring anything. AFAIK, there are no current court cases even challenging abortion at the national level and there haven't been for decades. The RKBA however, has been in constant assault at the state and federal levels. I am not pro-abortion if you must know, but I am a realist, and not very fond of going off-topic.
I didn't bring up abortion...

As someone else pointed out you're not up to speed with regards to ongoing challenges to abortion.

I take strong exception to your opinion: "Voting for what's right by virtue of priority versus what feels good are two very different things." is simply wrong. Life is the #1 priority. Without life, the rest is noise.
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  #190  
Old 03-22-2013, 9:57 AM
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Amen, brother. No such thing as a pro-2A Democrat.
Pure horse manure. Damaging horse manure at that.
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  #191  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:00 AM
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The reason for that is that Roe v Wade isn't going anywhere. The only way abortion is eliminated is by Constitutional Amendment which doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell and there isn't a politician living, dead or yet to be born that has the political will to take it on or the political capital to be successful if they did. In short...it ain't changing, ever.

2A however can be all but erased with a stroke of a pen and is currently under attack from every angle, local, state, federal and international.
Thank goodness you're wrong about that! Things go in cycles. Slowly but surely the nation is seeing just how evil abortion is. Go Google the numbers...
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:00 AM
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I agree, you can't vote for a person who is an enemy to your beliefs.
That's, exactly the point of this thread. So called pro-gun dems vote constantly for antigunners bc of gay rights, free money, SS, welfare, or whatever liberal cause. They deem these issues more important than the RTKBA.

The proper response to a anti-gun dem even if they support your other causes is not to vote or to vote for their opposition if he is progun.

If a Republican promised everything I ever wanted and said he was for limiting freedom of speech. I would vote against him.

If you are a so called progun dem, you should do the same against anti-gun dems. If you won't then your nothing but a liar about being pro-gun.

I am a Libertarian minded independent.
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  #193  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:14 AM
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That's, exactly the point of this thread. So called pro-gun dems vote constantly for antigunners bc of gay rights, free money, SS, welfare, or whatever liberal cause. They deem these issues more important than the RTKBA.

The proper response to a anti-gun dem even if they support your other causes is not to vote or to vote for their opposition if he is progun.

If a Republican promised everything I ever wanted and said he was for limiting freedom of speech. I would vote against him.

If you are a so called progun dem, you should do the same against anti-gun dems. If you won't then your nothing but a liar about being pro-gun.

I am a Libertarian minded independent.
The "proper response?" So you say! Especially the crap about not voting!
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  #194  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:33 AM
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Thank goodness you're wrong about that! Things go in cycles. Slowly but surely the nation is seeing just how evil abortion is. Go Google the numbers...
I loathe the practice. But it will NEVER go away. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

Anyone who votes for someone who is not steadfast in their defense of 2A needs to understand that doing so is a tacit approval of the assault upon 2A.
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  #195  
Old 03-22-2013, 12:54 PM
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five.five-six five.five-six is offline
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TL;DR

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  #196  
Old 03-22-2013, 1:24 PM
Nopal Nopal is offline
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Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
I didn't bring up abortion...

As someone else pointed out you're not up to speed with regards to ongoing challenges to abortion.

I take strong exception to your opinion: "Voting for what's right by virtue of priority versus what feels good are two very different things." is simply wrong. Life is the #1 priority. Without life, the rest is noise.
Abortion is a tangent that puts us off topic. I mentioned it as easily as I could've mentioned spending or something else. And seeing as though we're both fundamentally on the same side on both issues (abortion, RKBA), what exactly is this argument about? Are you here to argue for the sake of argument, jumping on tangents that dilute the quality of the discussion?

The main point is: RKBA is a constitutionally enumerated civil right. The only such right under attack in our country today, unlike the many other hot button issues that voters typically vote on, and as such is of paramount importance. Are going to pick a tangential argument on that point, too?
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Old 03-22-2013, 1:27 PM
jorgyusa jorgyusa is offline
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Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
There is truth to this. Our current gunrights debacle in CA is directly traceable to two key items:
- term limits;
- failure of CA GOP to be remotely relevant/winning.

And I'm a hardass 'punch the hippies/hunt the unionist' rightie.

Or is it that gun owners don't care and don't vote.

If we are about 20% of the electorate in California and only about 50% of the eligible voters actually go to the polls then why don't we have a much bigger voice. If we got 90% turn out of gun owners, we could stop the nonsense in this state.
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Old 03-22-2013, 1:47 PM
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But it is not the only enumerated right under attack.

I agree with you,
"Anyone who votes for someone who is not steadfast in their defense of 2A needs to understand that doing so is a tacit approval of the assault upon 2A."

Furthermore, Anyone who votes for someone who is not steadfast in their defense of ANY PART of the constitution needs to understand that doing so is a tacit approval of the assault upon the constitution.

2A support alone is not enough to deserve a vote.
Honestly, respectfully, I'm not trying to be unduly argumentative, just trying to expand the criteria.
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Old 03-22-2013, 5:32 PM
RugerFan777 RugerFan777 is offline
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Originally Posted by adamjay View Post
But it is not the only enumerated right under attack.



2A support alone is not enough to deserve a vote.
Honestly, respectfully, I'm not trying to be unduly argumentative, just trying to expand the criteria.
True. Also though anyone who is anti-gun is not deserving of our vote, they must be defeated.

If that means the dem party loses across this nation so be it.
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Old 03-22-2013, 8:13 PM
SWalt SWalt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamjay View Post
But it is not the only enumerated right under attack.

I agree with you,
"Anyone who votes for someone who is not steadfast in their defense of 2A needs to understand that doing so is a tacit approval of the assault upon 2A."

Furthermore, Anyone who votes for someone who is not steadfast in their defense of ANY PART of the constitution needs to understand that doing so is a tacit approval of the assault upon the constitution.

2A support alone is not enough to deserve a vote.
Honestly, respectfully, I'm not trying to be unduly argumentative, just trying to expand the criteria.
Lets expand their criteria of reasons not to vote strictly for 2A when its needed most.
  1. Kids might lose their breakfast, lunch and dinner money at school.
  2. Kids won't get new text books.
  3. Kids will die in the streets if we don't raise taxes.
  4. Illegal aliens won't get the dream act.
  5. Illegal aliens might lose welfare benefits.
  6. Illegal alien families will be split apart.
  7. Illegal aliens won't be able to have a special "pathway to citizenship" just for them rather than the one already in place.
  8. Illegal aliens might have to pay taxes.
  9. Women will die in the streets from "back alley abortions".
  10. Publicly paid abortions are a right.
  11. Everything I can think of is a right under natural law and the Constitution.
  12. Grandma will be pushed off a cliff.
  13. Marriage between a man and a woman is wrong and should include any number of people. Man/man, woman/woman, father/daughter, brother/brother, mother/daughter, father/son, daughter/daughter, 1 man/2 women, 2 women/1 man, etc. Its about love, not natural child creation.
  14. Men should be able to have babies and once it becomes technological feasible, government should pay for it.
  15. Women should be able to impregnate men.
  16. Tax breaks should be given to all combinations of marriage.
  17. Rights of survivorship should be given to all combinations of marriage.
  18. Natural bloodlines are a hindrance to happiness.
  19. We can't sue clergy and churches for not marrying all different combinations despite the clergy or church not believing in different combinations of marriage.
  20. Churches discriminate based upon belief.
  21. People will not be politically correct unless we force them to be.
  22. Speech codes in colleges might fall by the way side.
  23. Speech codes in public places haven't been fully implemented yet.
  24. I get my feelings hurt when I hear bad things.
  25. I get my feelings hurt because I am excluded.
  26. Non government sponsored self esteem is too hard to find.
  27. Crazy ideas like equal treatment for all individuals despite race might come to fruition.
  28. Special treatment of minorities and women will end if we treat every individual equally.
  29. We love post modern historical views.
  30. Minorities who immigrated after Jim Crow and official government discrimination ended won't be treated as special and not as if they were brutally treated.
  31. Men should change.
  32. Men should accessorize. Does my clothing clash?
  33. Government is a force for good and should be in every ones daily lives. Its nice to know government cares.
  34. Special programs that treat white men as evil might end.
  35. White men who didn't own slaves might be off the hook.
  36. Radical ethnic studies might end.
  37. Wall Street and business make too much money. Every owner of a business is evil and greedy.
  38. Every business has tons of money.
  39. The rich don't pay their fair share.
  40. Only rich democrats are good.
  41. Hard work is hard.
  42. Making my own way is just hard.
  43. I think everyone should have every material goods that are available.
  44. If prices go up or companies lay off workers because minimum wages goes up, I don't know about it and I feel good.
  45. Mega celebrities' $20+ million dollar contracts are fair because they speak for the people.
  46. My world is seen through a rainbow and yours should be too.
  47. Conservatives are just........ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
  48. Conservatives are evil bas****s.
  49. Conservatives are just plain mean!!
  50. We want fish! Forget that darn pole!

Sorry........just a partial list. Does it help? They have many reasons why not to vote for evil conservative/republicans even though they are 2A supporters and their liberal democrats opponents are not.

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Last edited by SWalt; 03-22-2013 at 8:24 PM..
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