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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 03-20-2013, 4:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Southwest Chuck View Post
Challenge my view? Please point to that view, you know, the one your challenging. Nice try to drag the conversation down into the straw-man territory. So THAT is your rational for voting for an anti-gun candidate? Please point me to the current Bills under consideration to legalize these things. No? Why no come out and say what you really mean. That you disagree with the other statement in my post... namely this one.....
Don't read to much into the word challenge I wrote. You basically said you should be all in on 2A or not at all. I don't believe that is true for every person, possibly not even you.

Do you believe it should be legal for a convicted, jailed and released felon, convicted of gun violence, be able to legally obtain RPGs and transport them whenever and wherever he/she wants? If you are all in for 2A, why are you not screaming for Bills to legalize these things?

I may be easy for you to say yes, like RugerFan did, but if you truly believe it the scenario I asked about above is legal, then you may be a bit too close to believing in a lawless society.

Last edited by MotoriousRacing; 03-20-2013 at 4:27 PM..
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  #82  
Old 03-20-2013, 4:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mossy View Post
IMO if a "pro gun" democrat voted for DiFi or 0bama then they are NOT pro gun. They are only fair weather gun owners. like the gun shop in AZ said, if you voted for 0bama, get out.
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Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post
The closest it comes are people like Harry Reid who would put a AW ban on the floor in a heartbeat if he didn't think it would put him in an unemployment line next election.
Truer words were never spoken, IMHO

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I am humbled at the efforts of so many Patriots on this and other forums, CGN, CGF, SAF, NRA, CRPF, MDS etc. etc. I am lucky to be living in an era of a new awakening of the American Spirit; One that embraces it's Constitutional History, and it's Founding Fathers vision, especially in an age of such uncertainty that we are now in.
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  #83  
Old 03-20-2013, 4:34 PM
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In my opinion, the issue isn't people voting Democrat...period. that is oversimplification. oversimplification IS the problem.

Yes, many (most even) Democrats at the state and federal level do seem to support gun control. BUT Democrat does NOT automatically mean anti gun.

Yes, many (even most) Republicans at the state and federal level do NOT support gun control. BUT Republican does NOT automatically mean pro gun.

99% of the time I vote single issue, PRO GUN. I find this is VERY safe to do because Republican or Democrat, I find that a PRO gun candidate often lines up with or is close enough to earn my vote on my "secondary issues". But if I have to choose between PRO gun and my "secondary issues", I always go Pro gun. without the 2nd and my right to own guns, at some point the rest of the issues become very irrelevant.

Gun owners need to STOP thinking in overly simplistic terms. i have seen people on here argue to support a anti gun Republican simply because they are Republican and because "by god those "evil" democrats won't get my vote". And so they are willing to reward an anti gun Republican simply because they can't bring them self to vote someone else. This is as short sighted and "suicidal" for gun rights as continually supporting a democrat for the same reason or because they give lip service to another issue you care for, but is SAFE. example, abortion.

NO gun owner in my opinion should be choosing a candidate based on their voiced support for one side of the issue or the other. There is NO way abortion is going to become illegal again. So, don't throw your vote away on a "non issue". I get there are moral/religious beliefs people may feel the need "to be true to"...but the TRUTH, the FACT of the matter is you can believe all you want that abortion is wrong, that it should be illegal. the reality is YOU ARE NOT going to get your way. If you believe abortion should be legal...STOP worrying that the other side is going to change things....they can't. They don't have the momentum to do anything but make noise that is currently mostly ignored. In the mean time spending your vote on abortion over gun rights...plain stupid.

Abortion is just ONE example. there are other "secondary issues" that making a choice of who to support over their stance on gun control on is a WASTED vote.

We NEED to be smart. IF the rare PRO gun Democrat comes along WE NEED to support them. IF the rare anti gun Republican comes along, we need to MAKE SURE they don't get into office or are voted out.

To win, we need to spend our votes SMARTER than we are and stop over simplifying things.

Yes, Democrats tend to more often be anti gun, BUT some of the worst set backs we have had actually came from the Republicans. voting blindly Republican is STUPID.

SO....PLEASE, PLEASE STOP viewing success as only happening by supporting a single party. this is suicide. we need to support individuals (almost) regardless of which party they come from that support Freedom, Liberty, and Civil Rights, particularly GUN RIGHTS.

There is truly no "pro gun party"...but there are pro gun candidates.

Not that I should have to say this, but for the record, I am NOT a registered Democrat. I think I have actually voted Democrat so few times you can count on one hand and still have a finger or two left. No, rather I have learned my lesson by paying attention to history. I used to think it was as simply as just voting Republican. BUT I paid attention and learned that I can get "burned" by a Republican just as badly as a Democrat. So, I choose based first and foremost on the candidates stance on gun control or their voting history.

Lest we forget....

Regan screwed up our carry laws
Nixon wanted to ban handguns
deukmejian signed the 89 California AWB
Bush sr band some semi auto rifle imports
bush jr said he would sign a awb ban
Arnold....I think we all remember him

we choose to ignore the damage by Republicans, and focus on people being simply Democrat... this is stupid and short sighted. we are better than this, smarter...lets start acting like it.
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  #84  
Old 03-20-2013, 4:41 PM
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Originally Posted by RugerFan777 View Post
"But I am a pro-gun democrat who is not a single issue voter, I will vote Democrat no matter how anti-gun they are, all they have to do is say they are pro-hunting etc, I want my free money, gay rights, etc"
Sorry my friend, then, you are a anti-gunner! You have chosen, now live with your choices. I don't ever want to hear you complain again about gun bills, you want them, that's the way you voted.

YOU GOT WHAT YOU VOTED FOR!

LIVE WITH IT!
Preach on brother! Amen!
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  #85  
Old 03-20-2013, 5:13 PM
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Originally Posted by MotoriousRacing View Post
Don't read to much into the word challenge I wrote. You basically said you should be all in on 2A or not at all. I don't believe that is true for every person, possibly not even you.

Do you believe it should be legal for a convicted, jailed and released felon, convicted of gun violence, be able to legally obtain RPGs and transport them whenever and wherever he/she wants? If you are all in for 2A, why are you not screaming for Bills to legalize these things?

I may be easy for you to say yes, like RugerFan did, but if you truly believe it the scenario I asked about above is legal, then you may be a bit too close to believing in a lawless society.
That's not what I said. Basically by Forsaking a Enumerated Fundamental Right that protects all others, to advance other other issues important to you is a mistake. Again, nice try at putting words in my mouth and imply things that I didn't say. It sounds as if you're just trolling here.

If you don't understand where I'm coming from In my post here, then so be it. no amount of clarification from me will help.

Oh, and same goes for me too. As you said, "Don't read to much into the word(s) challenge Enumerated Rights I wrote".

They are only just words, you know .
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Originally Posted by Southwest Chuck View Post
I am humbled at the efforts of so many Patriots on this and other forums, CGN, CGF, SAF, NRA, CRPF, MDS etc. etc. I am lucky to be living in an era of a new awakening of the American Spirit; One that embraces it's Constitutional History, and it's Founding Fathers vision, especially in an age of such uncertainty that we are now in.
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  #86  
Old 03-20-2013, 5:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ZombieTactics View Post
You aptly demonstrate what I have proposed. You "care" (to some degree) about 2A rights, but much more about a whole host of other things ... as is your right.

It's encouraging that you feel things are "out of control" and "may end up" voting differently next time. At the same time it also reveals the nature of your position ... you "may end up" voting differently. Notice the lack of conviction in that statement? We are in the middle of seeing some of the worst imaginable attacks on 2A freedoms, and all that gets from you is a figurative maybe.

You'll feel "shame" for "flushing everything else" you believe ... but no expression of shame or responsibility for supporting the very gun grabbers who are now "out of control"? You "despise" certain aspects of the opposite political party, but there is nothing "despicable" about that which you've supported?

My intent is not to hector you or antagonize you. But please see that you appear to be VERY committed to some things, just not very committed to supporting the 2A, or not not enough to make a difference.
The reason that my response is only a "maybe" is not because I don't see the magnitude of what is at stake. It is just that the amount of things that I don't like about the republican/libertarian philosophy are astronomically numerous. Meanwhile, parties on the left wing spectrum (democrat, green, etc) have very few positions that I disagree with. The problem is that 2A rights are a huge deal for me. In the end, I have to make a choice as to whether I want to deal with a bunch of small problems or one great big one.

What further complicates things is that some of these "smaller" issues aren't really all that small. Look at the issue of healthcare. Particularly in California, we have an extremely high percentage of uninsured. The privately run healthcare system is broken. This is a life and death issue. Peoples' health is negatively impacted so that insurance companies can turn a profit. That is not okay with me. If it weren't for the republicans dragging their feet, I'm sure we would have universal healthcare by now. I can't just write that off and ignore such a huge issue when I go to vote. Another issue would be financial deregulation. People lost their homes, savings and everything else of value because of institutions like Goldman Sachs whose actions were permitted by our government (allowing superbanks to merge and lend obscene amounts of money with few liquid assets). People became destitute because a bunch of guys on wall street wanted to get rich. Not okay. That is why we need people like Elizabeth Warren (I hope she runs for president someday).

The very reason that the republican party is decreasing in relevancy (the only reason that they have a majority in the house is because of creative districting) is because they have refused to adapt their philosophy to these issues. People care most about the issues than most directly affect their daily lives. Republicans can still be the party that adheres to traditional constitutional values while adapting to show middle class/low income Americans that they care about them too. Republicans, above all else, have a PR problem. They have a reputation for being the party of old, rich, white people. They have this reputation for good reason. People have access to global sources of information. They can see that countries like Norway, Finland, Sweden and Switzerland are frequently rated as having the highest quality of living in the world. Why? Because all of those countries have a minimum standard for access to basic human services. Their governments have ensured that their people are provided for. But still provide an environment where people can work hard and earn more money if they want to. Republicans frequently use the tired old argument that a more European style government would turn people into welfare bums. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, Norway and those pot smoking Dutch have higher productivity rates than the United States. Whatever your principles may be, just understand that the republican party will become increasingly more irrelevant unless they go through a dramatic change. Again, they don't have to abandon constitutional principles. They just may have to come to terms with the fact that being the party of investment bankers and oil tycoons is not appealing to everyone.

If your only reason for checking the "R" box every election is because you support The Constitution, you may want to rethink that philosophy. Republicans have pissed on The Constitution just as much as democrats. They continually violate Article 1 Section 8 by continuing to fight the drug war even though the federal government has no constitutional authority to regulate drugs. The Patriot Act was signed with the blessing of many republicans. George Bush declared war on Iraq... apparently he doesn't understand that only congress can declare war. There are many more examples as well. The Constitution has been violated by many that hold public office and the hands of the republican party are not clean in that. They have violated just as many constitutional provisions (if not more so) than the democrats.
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  #87  
Old 03-20-2013, 5:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Wiz-of-Awd View Post
Maybe they should follow you?

A.W.D.
I take antis shooting, have converted many to our side, and I donate to pro-2A organizations. I do not pretend to be a leader in this field, but don't you dare questioning my loyalty.
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  #88  
Old 03-20-2013, 5:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 1859sharps View Post
In my opinion, the issue isn't people voting Democrat...period. that is oversimplification. oversimplification IS the problem.

Yes, many (most even) Democrats at the state and federal level do seem to support gun control. BUT Democrat does NOT automatically mean anti gun.

Yes, many (even most) Republicans at the state and federal level do NOT support gun control. BUT Republican does NOT automatically mean pro gun.

99% of the time I vote single issue, PRO GUN. I find this is VERY safe to do because Republican or Democrat, I find that a PRO gun candidate often lines up with or is close enough to earn my vote on my "secondary issues". But if I have to choose between PRO gun and my "secondary issues", I always go Pro gun. without the 2nd and my right to own guns, at some point the rest of the issues become very irrelevant.

Gun owners need to STOP thinking in overly simplistic terms. i have seen people on here argue to support a anti gun Republican simply because they are Republican and because "by god those "evil" democrats won't get my vote". And so they are willing to reward an anti gun Republican simply because they can't bring them self to vote someone else. This is as short sighted and "suicidal" for gun rights as continually supporting a democrat for the same reason or because they give lip service to another issue you care for, but is SAFE. example, abortion.

NO gun owner in my opinion should be choosing a candidate based on their voiced support for one side of the issue or the other. There is NO way abortion is going to become illegal again. So, don't throw your vote away on a "non issue". I get there are moral/religious beliefs people may feel the need "to be true to"...but the TRUTH, the FACT of the matter is you can believe all you want that abortion is wrong, that it should be illegal. the reality is YOU ARE NOT going to get your way. If you believe abortion should be legal...STOP worrying that the other side is going to change things....they can't. They don't have the momentum to do anything but make noise that is currently mostly ignored. In the mean time spending your vote on abortion over gun rights...plain stupid.

Abortion is just ONE example. there are other "secondary issues" that making a choice of who to support over their stance on gun control on is a WASTED vote.

We NEED to be smart. IF the rare PRO gun Democrat comes along WE NEED to support them. IF the rare anti gun Republican comes along, we need to MAKE SURE they don't get into office or are voted out.

To win, we need to spend our votes SMARTER than we are and stop over simplifying things.

Yes, Democrats tend to more often be anti gun, BUT some of the worst set backs we have had actually came from the Republicans. voting blindly Republican is STUPID.

SO....PLEASE, PLEASE STOP viewing success as only happening by supporting a single party. this is suicide. we need to support individuals (almost) regardless of which party they come from that support Freedom, Liberty, and Civil Rights, particularly GUN RIGHTS.

There is truly no "pro gun party"...but there are pro gun candidates.

Not that I should have to say this, but for the record, I am NOT a registered Democrat. I think I have actually voted Democrat so few times you can count on one hand and still have a finger or two left. No, rather I have learned my lesson by paying attention to history. I used to think it was as simply as just voting Republican. BUT I paid attention and learned that I can get "burned" by a Republican just as badly as a Democrat. So, I choose based first and foremost on the candidates stance on gun control or their voting history.

Lest we forget....

Regan screwed up our carry laws
Nixon wanted to ban handguns
deukmejian signed the 89 California AWB
Bush sr band some semi auto rifle imports
bush jr said he would sign a awb ban
Arnold....I think we all remember him

we choose to ignore the damage by Republicans, and focus on people being simply Democrat... this is stupid and short sighted. we are better than this, smarter...lets start acting like it.
This !!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southwest Chuck View Post
I am humbled at the efforts of so many Patriots on this and other forums, CGN, CGF, SAF, NRA, CRPF, MDS etc. etc. I am lucky to be living in an era of a new awakening of the American Spirit; One that embraces it's Constitutional History, and it's Founding Fathers vision, especially in an age of such uncertainty that we are now in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toby View Post
Go cheap you will always have cheap and if you sell, it will sell for even cheaper. Buy the best you can every time.
^^^ Wise Man. Take his advice
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  #89  
Old 03-20-2013, 5:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Bsandoc40 View Post
Amen, brother. No such thing as a pro-2A Democrat.
NRA Board member Dan Boren is a Congressman from Oklahoma. Democrat.
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  #90  
Old 03-20-2013, 5:29 PM
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Originally Posted by a1c View Post
I take antis shooting, have converted many to our side, and I donate to pro-2A organizations. I do not pretend to be a leader in this field, but don't you dare questioning my loyalty.
If you you voted for Obama, Feinstein or Boxer, there is no question where your loyalty lies.
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  #91  
Old 03-20-2013, 5:44 PM
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It's really not that complicated. If someone votes for an anti-gun candidate, regardless of party, they can't really be considered pro 2A. The problem I see is when all the candidates are anti-gun. Like in CA.
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  #92  
Old 03-20-2013, 5:55 PM
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Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post
If you you voted for Obama, Feinstein or Boxer, there is no question where your loyalty lies.
I didn't. You should see some of the letters I've written to the aforementioned senators.

So stop assuming.
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  #93  
Old 03-20-2013, 6:07 PM
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If you you voted for Obama, Feinstein or Boxer, there is no question where your loyalty lies.
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  #94  
Old 03-20-2013, 6:14 PM
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So far here's what I surmise from this thread. Some of us don't identify ourselves with any party and vote based on a candidate's record, experience and education. While others identify with a party and either vote similarly or tend to vote along their party line.

Some folks see the importance of respecting the fact that a lot of folks out there who voted for a democratic candidate have many valid reasons of their own why they did, and that, that doesn't mean they are against gun rights and welcome the prospect of them joining in on defending our rights. While others seem to hold a grudge against those folks and prefer to be inflammatory toward them instead of welcoming their desire to help defend our rights.

I think the later group is being short sighted and here's why. There are a LOT of democrats who own guns and are not happy about their politician's cranking up the extremism on attacking gun rights. These democrats are the folks who not only are needed to put back into office those politicians, but are also needed to put those politicians back onto ballot in the first place. So it boils down to this. Which would you prefer? 1) The Dianne Feinsteins out there getting re-elected again? 2) The Dianne Feinsteins losing re-election? 3) The Dianne Feinsteins not only losing re-election but also getting primary'ed off the ballot in the primary elections?

I like choice #3 best and I think the best way to increase any chance of choice #2 or #3 being realized is welcoming any democrat who expresses displeasure with all these 2nd Amendment attacks and educate them as to why they don't need to re-elect those candidates.

Its a numbers game folks and I would like to have as many voting on our behalf as possible. Because even if we do win it. The less of a win it is, the more likely and the quicker they will be back to challenge us again and again.
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Old 03-20-2013, 6:31 PM
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I like choice #3 best and I think the best way to increase any chance of choice #2 or #3 being realized is welcoming any democrat who expresses displeasure with all these 2nd Amendment attacks and educate them as to why they don't need to re-elect those candidates.

Its a numbers game folks and I would like to have as many voting on our behalf as possible. Because even if we do win it. The less of a win it is, the more likely and the quicker they will be back to challenge us again and again.
Diane Feinstein will remain in office until her core power coupling runs dead or a major portion of her fuselage malfunctions. It will be long after we are all dead.
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  #96  
Old 03-20-2013, 6:56 PM
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oh please DiFi will NEVER lose a election in CA. we will only be rid of her is when she dies or is bedridden.
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  #97  
Old 03-20-2013, 7:00 PM
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oh please DiFi will NEVER lose a election in CA. we will only be rid of her is when she dies or is bedridden.
She'll be 85 in 2018. This is probably her last term.
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Old 03-20-2013, 7:20 PM
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i'm a pro-gun democrat, but i voted for a full republican slate last time around.

at this point, for pretty much every issue i care about, both sides do the same thing. so guns is the only issue i vote on. therefore i vote republican.
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Old 03-20-2013, 7:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Hippies_Have_Guns_Too View Post

I think the later group is being short sighted and here's why. There are a LOT of democrats who own guns and are not happy about their politician's cranking up the extremism on attacking gun rights. These democrats are the folks who not only are needed to put back into office those politicians, but are also needed to put those politicians back onto ballot in the first place.

The truth hurts. The ugly, nasty truth behind all of this is that if push came to shove and a Democrat voter had to choose between a candidate who supports the 2A and a Democrat who is 100% for gay rights, abortion rights, etc but wants every gun and toy confiscated, they'll vote for the latter.

Ultimately, most people do not see gun rights as a civil rights issue. As such, Democrat and liberal voters who own guns will continue to do as they have: ignore the anti-rights stance of their politicians, and then wail and moan when the adverse gun control laws reach into their lives.

How else in a country with 90 million gun owners did a Democrat become President? There's no shortage of firearms in Colorado either, yet today the state governor signed into law multiple restrictions to rousing applause.
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Old 03-20-2013, 7:21 PM
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Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post
The closest it comes are people like Harry Reid who would put a AW ban on the floor in a heartbeat if he didn't think it would put him in an unemployment line next election.

I lived in Nevada for a couple years. You can bet your *** and your guns that Reid will bring this back in full force in 2014 if they retake the house and gain in the senate.

If that happens it will be the so called Pro-Gun Democrats that will be responsible yet again. These are the same people that said Obama won't take your guns because he said he would not in a campaign promise. They will also sight the fact that he did noting in his first term against guns and therefore used that to vote for him again. Despite many of us telling them that he was anti-gun and would go after guns in his second term, they laughed us to scorn, calling us fools. It turns out that they were the fools.

Sad to say but these so called pro-gun dems are so easily deceived they don't deserve to vote. The other option is gay rights, environmental concerns or free money, etc, override their so called second amendment loyalty. Thus, they really care little for gun rights, despite their claims otherwise.
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  #101  
Old 03-20-2013, 7:28 PM
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One of the problems is that guns are a hot button issue.

Democrats have abandoned the RKBA in many parts of the country, and left it to Republicans.

As a result, attacking the 2A using the "it's for the children" approach is a way to attack Republicans. And vice-versa. The 2A is just used by elected officials to get votes and play the partisan game. We all know most of those guys don't give a crap in the end and will flip-flop if they need to do so.

Now, the smart thing to do would be for Republicans to understand this and depolarize the issue. Don't attack "Democrats" or "liberals" as a whole on this issue - there are plenty of gun-owning Dems in Midwestern and Southern states, and, as this thread attests, in California.

Most importantly, it would be smart on the part of many Calgunners here to stop antagonizing those who do not identify with the current GOP leadership. Those cheap attacks do not accomplish anything.

We should all be on the same side.
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  #102  
Old 03-20-2013, 7:30 PM
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NRA Board member Dan Boren is a Congressman from Oklahoma. Democrat.
So let me ask you, if this pro-gun democrat is the deciding vote for Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the house. You think she will be thankful and vote pro-gun?:
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  #103  
Old 03-20-2013, 8:03 PM
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She'll be 85 in 2018. This is probably her last term.
Ehh, coupple more squirts of botox, new wig and re-strech the forhead, she will be good as new.
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Old 03-20-2013, 8:07 PM
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Originally Posted by a1c View Post
One of the problems is that guns are a hot button issue.

Democrats have abandoned the RKBA in many parts of the country, and left it to Republicans.

As a result, attacking the 2A using the "it's for the children" approach is a way to attack Republicans. And vice-versa. The 2A is just used by elected officials to get votes and play the partisan game. We all know most of those guys don't give a crap in the end and will flip-flop if they need to do so.

Now, the smart thing to do would be for Republicans to understand this and depolarize the issue. Don't attack "Democrats" or "liberals" as a whole on this issue - there are plenty of gun-owning Dems in Midwestern and Southern states, and, as this thread attests, in California.

Most importantly, it would be smart on the part of many Calgunners here to stop antagonizing those who do not identify with the current GOP leadership. Those cheap attacks do not accomplish anything.

We should all be on the same side.
You've misread the political dynamic.

There are no "sides", because our trouble is that most gun owners DONT CARE.

Outside of the "pro-gun" echo chamber that is Calguns, most people assign the same worth to their guns as we do to our TV remotes. For the layperson, a gun is just another appliance or perhaps, a family heirloom.

The litmus test which backs that up is the 2012 Election. The Republicans directly cited support for the RKBA in their party platform. The public's reaction?


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz



The Democrats made it clear for all to see that their party supports gun control and wanted to re-instate the AWB.

The reaction of most Democrats?

crickets.

No one cares about the issue, unless it materially affects the voters. If liberals did value gun rights, Obama wouldn't be a candidate-or the party , at the very least, would have abandoned gun control as a platform.

Look at the NY SAFE act as another example. The only unified reason people are upset about it is because the Governor ignored due process in forcing the regulation onto the lawbooks.
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  #105  
Old 03-20-2013, 8:15 PM
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Ehh, coupple more squirts of botox, new wig and re-strech the forhead, she will be good as new.
I KNEW I'd seen her somewhere before...

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Old 03-20-2013, 9:21 PM
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...There are no "sides", because our trouble is that most gun owners DONT CARE...
^This is the biggest problem no matter what political affiliation one might have.

What is the stat? About 100 million gun owners and only 5 million NRA members? These stats seemed to be similar in scale and proportion to users here on Calguns and gunowners within the state.

Another problem is the 2 party dominant system where everyone is unrepresented but with the power of either party forcing people to vote for someone they only agree only on one or few issues with or someone who seeks to make them criminals and take their property for the state. Some people just end up not voting, for example with the presidential election. I couldn't vote for either candidate.
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  #107  
Old 03-20-2013, 9:38 PM
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Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
There is truth to this. Our current gunrights debacle in CA is directly traceable to two key items:
- term limits;
- failure of CA GOP to be remotely relevant/winning.

And I'm a hardass 'punch the hippies/hunt the unionist' rightie.
But doesn't that prove gun rights are partisan. If we are losing our rights because one party fails to win and one party continually wins, how are our rights anything but partisan?
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:23 PM
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But doesn't that prove gun rights are partisan. If we are losing our rights because one party fails to win and one party continually wins, how are our rights anything but partisan?
True. And I agree they're partisan. I am just reflectiing on the problems here in CA.

But what also happens is that the continue-to-win party can freewheel and move further to the left because there's no competition.
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  #109  
Old 03-21-2013, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post
....
How can you rationalize ownership of a firearm and support of the 2nd Amendment when you identify with a party which has gun control included in its platform?
Both sides of this discussion have valid claims.

I can understand why it is annoying to members on this site who vote Democrat to see the non-stop liberal bashing on this website; at the same time, Republicans in this state are marginalized, and so it makes sense that they come here to vent about liberal BS. But let's face it: the country in general is more liberal right now. G Dub's administration effectively ruined the GOP's image for the next 20 years.

Ultimately, it depends on how high of a priority 2nd Amendment rights are to you right now. It is clear that the far left has picked now as the time to fight this gun control battle, and it is because they currently have their best chance of success (with all the publicity on mass shootings and whatnot). Ironically, the Democratic party (which prides itself on diversity and minority rights) has completely given up using the fact that thousands of 16 year old black men are shooting each other with handguns and instead are getting the country riled up over the death of 20 white kids; it's like a bad cliche right out of a Spike Lee movie.

I myself am a left-leaning individual (ain't gonna try to hide it), but would not be hesitant to vote Republican right now for a few reasons:

-let's face it, Roe v. Wade isn't going anywhere anytime soon
-Democrats are on too thin a ice right now to try enacting any sort of progressive gay marriage legislation anyway
-Democrats are currently on a spending spree; it's like every hippie is getting their pipe dreams turned into legislation right now
-at least try to send a message that if you are anti-2A, you will not get my votes

I guess I would consider myself more dedicated to conservatism than to "Republican-ism." That being said, to consider myself a Republican, the GOP would have to change a couple of their fundamental principles which I don't see happening anytime soon. I really don't want to consider myself a Democrat either. IMHO, there is a lot of hypocrisy in both parties; pick your poison.
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  #110  
Old 03-21-2013, 12:57 AM
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  #111  
Old 03-21-2013, 1:28 AM
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This is an interesting thread - and more so I wanted to focus in on this post because it resonates a large point, and one that is interesting and topical. Now you mention your Catholic upbringing. There are over 1 Billion Roman Catholics (it is said) in the world, and in the US they are a large and growing voting force - especially since most are from Latin America, the fastest growing demographic.

However I notice that Catholics often are conflicted, mostly Democrat, and vote to the left\collectivism because of social issues. There is a resistance to the idea of individual rights, individuals as independent. I notice that though there are doctrinal positions that mandate social conservatism (marriage, birth control, abortion, homosexuality), the Roman Catholic Church is however to the left in support of government collectivism, gun control, and wide taxes pushing for wealth re-distribution. One of their largest political field actions has been for illegal aliens to get legal immigration status in the US, and they push hard on this issue. In fact for Roman Catholics and Democrats, the push for illegal alien amnesty has been a partnership.

The new Pope Francis I is indicating a new era of the left Latin model which John Paul II took issue with in the 80's, but now seems to be tolerant of. On Deutsche Welle news I watch (I like to watch an assortment of news feeds), a pundit watching over all this said essentially that resistance of the USA "libertarian economic" model of capitalism will be further pushed against by this Pope Francis I more so; a continued resistance to free market mercantilism which he is more a voice on than previous Popes.

Now I bring this up because honestly, this goes to the heart of often what is brought up. Our system of libertarian economics (well in youth but so hammered on) and private property rights, goes hand in hand with individual rights and the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. I find that there is a great inconsistency, say a confusion, among Democrats - esp. Catholic Democrats with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnhrdgr2 View Post
I am a democrat, and I also am a gun owner.
...
yes, I believe in Gay rights, although it goes against my Catholic upbringing.
...
I believe money is needed in order to help TEMPORARILY and NOT continued support. I dont believe in welfare for those that prove that they do NOT want to find work or improve themselves, but I do believe welfare to help those who prove that they WILL work to improve their situation.
...
I also believe in some federal grants to help legal students attend a higher education.
...
Taxes suck, but it is a necessary evil. Raising taxes is ok ONLY if other avenues have been exhausted first.
...
Yes, when I was young, my parents came here legally and as new legal immigrants, they had it tough. They had to get assistance when they first came. Getting this 'free money' bugged my parents all to hell. They hated getting handouts, but knew they needed help to establish themselves. It took about a year for them to find decent jobs and was extremely happy to get off the assistance. For these programs, I am grateful. Like I said, I believe these programs should help TEMPORARILY and NOT support indefinitely.
...
Yes I am a democrat, but I do not vote along democratic lines. I vote for the candidate I feel is the best amongst the choices.
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  #112  
Old 03-21-2013, 1:43 AM
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Amen, brother. No such thing as a pro-2A Democrat.
That might be true in the California Legislature, but it isn't true everywhere.

A wacky so-called "assault weapon" ban has been introduced in Oregon - HB 3200 - written by a wacky anti-gun rights group, Ceasefire Oregon, which can't get two dozen people -including media - to show up for its rallies. When Oregon gun owners wrote to their representatives, these are some of the responses they got. Remember, all of these responses are from Democratic members of the Oregon Legislature:

From the Oregon House (Democratic) Majority Leader (note - this email was not sent to me, but to someone else):

Quote:



Dear Mr. xxxxxxx,

Thank you for your email and also for your service.

I have no intention of supporting HB3200. We will keep your email on file and let you know if we hear anything about this bill progressing in the House.

I really appreciate your volunteer hours at xxxxxxxxx. Both of my children went to that school and we have many great memories of those years.

Don't hesitate to contact my office in the future if I can be of assistance.

All the best
Val

Representative Val Hoyle
House Majority Leader
House District 14
West Eugene and Junction City

This from my state senator, Betsy Johnson. Notice her signature:

Quote:



Thank you for your email. I dont disagree, and I will be opposing any additional firearms restrictions, including SB-346, SB-347 and, especially, HB-3200.

Best regards,

Betsy

Member, Democratic Gun Owners Caucus

NFA License Holder
And finally, from Jeff Barker, Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee that would hear HB 3200:

Quote:



Thank you for your email.

I am opposed to any new restrictions on law abiding gun owners, including HB 3200. As both a retired cop w/ 31 years in law enforcement and a Democrat, I frequently remind my legislative colleagues that law abiding gun owners pose no threat to public safety. I have opposed, and will continue to oppose, efforts to ban CHL holders from K-12 schools and higher educational campus, so called "assault weapon" bans, and any other unecessary restrictions on Oregonians' 2nd Amendment rights.

Thanks again for your email and please feel free to contact me again on this or any other issue.

Jeff Barker
See, pro-2A Democratic politicians really do exist (outside of California).
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  #113  
Old 03-21-2013, 2:06 AM
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You vote 2A or you don't! (period) Sick of hearing these Pinko Commies complaining when they're the ones keeping these gun grabbing D-Bags in office year after year! Again, you vote 2A or you don't.
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  #114  
Old 03-21-2013, 2:19 AM
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Originally Posted by RugerFan777 View Post
"But I am a pro-gun democrat who is not a single issue voter, I will vote Democrat no matter how anti-gun they are, all they have to do is say they are pro-hunting etc, I want my free money, gay rights, etc"
Sorry my friend, then, you are a anti-gunner! You have chosen, now live with your choices. I don't ever want to hear you complain again about gun bills, you want them, that's the way you voted.

YOU GOT WHAT YOU VOTED FOR!

LIVE WITH IT!
The only thing worse is a self-proclaimed "conservative" who belongs to a labor union or is employed by the gov't.
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Old 03-21-2013, 8:33 AM
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The only thing worse is a self-proclaimed "conservative" who belongs to a labor union or is employed by the gov't.
I belong to a labor union.
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  #116  
Old 03-21-2013, 8:59 AM
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I belong to a labor union.
I hate you and all that you stand for. You stink of elderberries and wool. Your eyebrows are entirely too bushy.
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  #117  
Old 03-21-2013, 9:05 AM
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We have what 2 or 3 pro gun dems in CA legislature? Lou Correa, Rod Wright for sure. maaaayyyyybe Mike Gatto (LA somewhere) kinda sorta and Henry Perea (fresno). interesting that gatto voted against ammo registration but for open carry long gun ban. Perea voted against open carry ban.
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  #118  
Old 03-21-2013, 9:50 AM
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If you you voted for Obama, Feinstein or Boxer, there is no question where your loyalty lies.
and if you Didn't vote, you're just as guilty.


Non-Voters have no right to complain about anything that happens to them.
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Old 03-21-2013, 9:52 AM
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The only thing worse is a self-proclaimed "conservative" who belongs to a labor union or is employed by the gov't.
So, the position should be left open to be occupied by someone who will drink the Kool-Aid and buy into the liberal mindset or should it be taken by someone who cannot be swayed by their mindless drivel?
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:03 AM
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Almost all laws restricting gun rights are written by Democrats and passed because of party line votes, and yet the problem isnt that the Democrats are voting wrong on this issue, rather lets blame the GOP because if only they acted more the way some want on social issues, then they could outnumber the Democrats and stop them from introducing anti gun legislation and outnumber their party line votes. Yeah. Cool story bro. How about we blame the politicians who vote for this crap and stick it on them. If you want your representative to change on gun rights, write to them not us.

It seems like the underlying strategy to the change the GOP line of thinking is "I disagree with my dem reps on gun control but they won't change, and I agree with the repub challengers on gun rights but not other issues, so since the dems won't change, maybe I can get the republicans to change instead ". In other words you have given up on cleaning up your house and you see more hope in blaming the GOP and asking them to change their core beliefs. That will never work. Until both parties and a majority of citizens understand and respect the constitution and the 2a, we are screwed.
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