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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 03-20-2013, 12:31 PM
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Democrats: The party of gun control.

Say it until you're blue in the face.

If you vote for Democrats, you ARE voting to have your gun rights limited or even abolished. Learn it, live it, accept it.

If you vote for Democrats, then stop complaining that there's all this gun control. Full stop.
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  #42  
Old 03-20-2013, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippies_Have_Guns_Too View Post
You are only making an assumption that they are "pretending" to be in favor of protecting gun rights. And why would you alienate away someone who does not like the way the politician they voted for is acting toward gun rights? That makes no sense. Instead THAT is exactly the person we WANT to have on our side now. WHY? Because it is THEIR votes which are required in putting that politician back into office again. Certainly that politician isn't getting put into office with our votes. So why would you choose to pass up an opportunity that could get anti gun politicians voted out of office? And isn't that in of itself helping the anti politicians? Food for thought.
/thread

I wish I could vote republican/libertarian to protect my 2A rights with a clear conscience... but there are just too many other things that I despise about right wing philosophy. I may end up voting "R" next election because the gun grabbing has reached the point where it is out of control but I'm not sure how many times I will be able to do that without feeling the shame of flushing everything else I believe down the toilet.
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  #43  
Old 03-20-2013, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by RugerFan777 View Post
"But I am a pro-gun democrat who is not a single issue voter, I will vote Democrat no matter how anti-gun they are, all they have to do is say they are pro-hunting etc, I want my free money, gay rights, etc"
Sorry my friend, then, you are a anti-gunner! You have chosen, now live with your choices. I don't ever want to hear you complain again about gun bills, you want them, that's the way you voted.

YOU GOT WHAT YOU VOTED FOR!

LIVE WITH IT!
Dude, don't be a biggot. You make babies cry when you lump in gay rights with anything to do with guns. The two are both protected by the constitution and if you are truely for the constitution, then you are for both.

I agree anyone who would vote for one party "no matter what" is pretty ignorant to what is going on around them. The political parties are the problem, all of them.
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  #44  
Old 03-20-2013, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippies_Have_Guns_Too View Post
You are only making an assumption that they are "pretending" to be in favor of protecting gun rights. And why would you alienate away someone who does not like the way the politician they voted for is acting toward gun rights? That makes no sense. Instead THAT is exactly the person we WANT to have on our side now. WHY? Because it is THEIR votes which are required in putting that politician back into office again. Certainly that politician isn't getting put into office with our votes. So why would you choose to pass up an opportunity that could get anti gun politicians voted out of office? And isn't that in of itself helping the anti politicians? Food for thought.
No I am concluding that someone who likes the sound of calling themselves "Pro 2A", but consistently acts in meaningful ways contrary to that position is at best "horribly confused". At the least it can be rationally said that they certainly don't care enough about 2A rights to have it sway their vote. In other words, they aren't all that 2A, or they care about almost everything else a lot more. What you appear to be arguing for is their right to wear a T-shirt and hit "like" on FaceBook ... absent any other meaningful "support". People wear Marine t-shirts all the time too ... doesn't mean they are Marines.

I'm not trying to "alienate" anyone unless simply talking sense does so.

Some choices by their nature are mutually exclusive of other choices. There is no good cause served by being friendly with someone who smiles to your face and shakes your hand ... while stabbing you in the back.

I'm not being cruel or nasty. I'm simply, calmly saying "don't stand there smiling at me and extending your hand ... I see the knife in the other one."

Your position appears to be that we should ignore the knife because he is smiling ... maybe it'll be different this time if we are really super nice.

What I want these people to understand is that there is a choice to be made, and it may be in some ways a gut-wrenching choice. I won't sugar-coat the difficulty of it. That does not make the choice any less necessary.
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  #45  
Old 03-20-2013, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by stony View Post
/thread

I wish I could vote republican/libertarian to protect my 2A rights with a clear conscience... but there are just too many other things that I despise about right wing philosophy. I may end up voting "R" next election because the gun grabbing has reached the point where it is out of control but I'm not sure how many times I will be able to do that without feeling the shame of flushing everything else I believe down the toilet.
Thanks stony and a big welcome to CalGuns..

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  #46  
Old 03-20-2013, 12:58 PM
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Pro-freedom = pro-gun, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage. Am I am odd duck?

You cannot pick and choose your freedoms... You either believe in them or you don't.
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  #47  
Old 03-20-2013, 1:00 PM
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I might add that I am not a Republican. I actually dislike much of what the Republican Party stands for, and think most Republican politicians, being that they are politicians, are cowardly, treacherous, lying thieves. Technically speaking, I'm a left-winger. I'm an old school, pre- and anti- Marxist, liberal European Socialist. I believe in protecting the environment, education (not the Marxist "re-education" our schools teach now), universal health care, and a social safety net for those PRODUCTIVE CITIZENS OR THEIR DEPENDANTS who are old, sick, disabled, unemployed, etc. However, as much as I dislike the Republican Party political machine, I despise the Democratic Party one.

The problem with voting for any Democrat politician, even the ones who are moderate and not overtly hostile to the Constitution, is that you aren't just voting for them. You are also voting in the whole political machine that they are a part of, and all that it stands for, including its repressive and freedom-hating goals, schemes, and beliefs.

So claiming that you are a Democrat who supports the 2nd Amendment is kind of like supporting Stalin because you like the movies Eisenstein made, or voted for Hitler because you like the buildings he and Speer designed. Kind of like taking an ounce of sugar, mixing it with a pound of salt, and then trying to enjoy the sweetness of the resulting concoction.

By the way, has anyone here noticed that "pro-gun Democrats" like B.J. Clinton, Joe "Shotgun" Biden, and Barack Hussein Obama all seem to favor (and in the case of Biden, propose to limit us to) shotguns? Kind of reminds me of how the European colonial powers in Africa limited the natives to using muzzle loading flintlocks. Kind of hard to fight against the occupiers and oppressors when you have a front loading, black powder, fowling piece and they have modern military weapons. And they always try to frame the conversation and concepts around "sporting uses like hunting and target practice" or if forced to, "self defense against intruders"...and away from self defense from out of control, homicidal, repressive and oppressive government - like the Democrat Party.

Last edited by Marcus von W.; 03-20-2013 at 1:17 PM..
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  #48  
Old 03-20-2013, 1:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stony View Post
I wish I could vote republican/libertarian to protect my 2A rights with a clear conscience... but there are just too many other things that I despise about right wing philosophy. I may end up voting "R" next election because the gun grabbing has reached the point where it is out of control but I'm not sure how many times I will be able to do that without feeling the shame of flushing everything else I believe down the toilet.
You aptly demonstrate what I have proposed. You "care" (to some degree) about 2A rights, but much more about a whole host of other things ... as is your right.

It's encouraging that you feel things are "out of control" and "may end up" voting differently next time. At the same time it also reveals the nature of your position ... you "may end up" voting differently. Notice the lack of conviction in that statement? We are in the middle of seeing some of the worst imaginable attacks on 2A freedoms, and all that gets from you is a figurative maybe.

You'll feel "shame" for "flushing everything else" you believe ... but no expression of shame or responsibility for supporting the very gun grabbers who are now "out of control"? You "despise" certain aspects of the opposite political party, but there is nothing "despicable" about that which you've supported?

My intent is not to hector you or antagonize you. But please see that you appear to be VERY committed to some things, just not very committed to supporting the 2A, or not not enough to make a difference.
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  #49  
Old 03-20-2013, 1:18 PM
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Originally Posted by DirtyLawyer View Post
Pro-freedom = pro-gun, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage. Am I am odd duck?

You cannot pick and choose your freedoms... You either believe in them or you don't.
Yep, well said DirtyLawyer. You're not so odd there are a few of us.
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  #50  
Old 03-20-2013, 1:26 PM
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Just to be clear, as I have stated, I dont vote party lines. I vote for what is important to me and my family. With that said, in the last election I voted for Obama not because I drank his koolaid but because I REALLY did not like Romney.

I voted for Whitman and Fiorina because the CA economy has been in the crapper for a long time and very anti-business. I wanted to see what two former CEOs could do for us. Also, I tired of Feinstein and her anti 2A views.
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  #51  
Old 03-20-2013, 1:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DirtyLawyer View Post
Pro-freedom = pro-gun, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage. Am I am odd duck?

You cannot pick and choose your freedoms... You either believe in them or you don't.
Without (I hope) picking nits too much, I'd submit that I believe more in Liberty and Natural Rights than the fuzzier concept of "freedom".

Liberty does not demand that we are "pro" any particular thing, only that the law should not be especially pro OR anti when it comes to rights.

I don't want a government which is "Pro Gun" or "Anti Gun". I want one which acknowledges it has no business passing laws which take away the individual right to make that decision from me or anyone else.

I'll keep my comments to guns, as that is the actual context of this forum. Nonetheless, the principle - properly understood - applies equally in extending liberty in the area of other rights.
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  #52  
Old 03-20-2013, 1:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ZombieTactics View Post
No I am concluding that someone who likes the sound of calling themselves "Pro 2A", but consistently acts in meaningful ways contrary to that position is at best "horribly confused". At the least it can be rationally said that they certainly don't care enough about 2A rights to have it sway their vote. In other words, they aren't all that 2A, or they care about almost everything else a lot more. What you appear to be arguing for is their right to wear a T-shirt and hit "like" on FaceBook ... absent any other meaningful "support". People wear Marine t-shirts all the time too ... doesn't mean they are Marines.

I'm not trying to "alienate" anyone unless simply talking sense does so.

Some choices by their nature are mutually exclusive of other choices. There is no good cause served by being friendly with someone who smiles to your face and shakes your hand ... while stabbing you in the back.

I'm not being cruel or nasty. I'm simply, calmly saying "don't stand there smiling at me and extending your hand ... I see the knife in the other one."

Your position appears to be that we should ignore the knife because he is smiling ... maybe it'll be different this time if we are really super nice.

What I want these people to understand is that there is a choice to be made, and it may be in some ways a gut-wrenching choice. I won't sugar-coat the difficulty of it. That does not make the choice any less necessary.


My position is that they don't have a knife in their hand to ignore. My position is that they got burned by the politician they voted for and now wish to help rectify the problem. To which my response is to extend my hand and welcome their desire to help.

Sure by voting for democrat they know its more likely than not that politician doesn't favor gun rights. But many of these folks do indeed have very valid reasons (other reasons) why they voted for that politician. Voting is usually a practice in risk vs benefit analysis. And I am not going to belittle anyone who's risk vs benefit analysis resulted in them voting for someone who ended up being more risk than benefit.

For example: Say your job relies heavily on voting for a politician who is not pro 2nd Amendment. If he loses the election the other candidate has vowed to sign legislation that will result in your job being shipped over seas. Based on market conditions you make the risk vs benefit analysis that it is more important for you to vote for the candidate who is not going to support that legislation, especially when there are no serious threats at that moment against gun rights.

If after the election it ends up with that politician coming down hard on gun rights. I might not like that he got elected, but at the same time I am not going to belittle or even fault the guy who voted for him because his risk vs benefit analysis may have been at that time more benefit for himself and his family to vote the way he did, and, also, because it certainly doesn't mean he himself is anti 2nd Amendment or naively short sighted. He did what he concluded was best for himself and his family and I am not going to belittle the guy for that.

Also, how many people voted for a republican who voted for or signed anti gun laws? Do they get a pass because it was a republican they voted for?

I think this factionism needs to be set aside because we need as many people as possible. Anyone who declares they are for helping stop all these attacks on gun rights, or any other rights. They are welcome as far as I'm concerned.
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  #53  
Old 03-20-2013, 1:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ZombieTactics View Post
Without (I hope) picking nits too much, I'd submit that I believe more in Liberty and Natural Rights than the fuzzier concept of "freedom".
I understand the sentiment of your post but I don't understand your attempt at distinguishing between "liberty" and "freedom." The MW and Dictionary.com dictionaries have very similar definitions for both words, and the thesauruses list each as a synonym for the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieTactics View Post
Liberty does not demand that we are "pro" any particular thing, only that the law should not be especially pro OR anti when it comes to rights.
And "freedom" is different how?

You may have a good point but I don't think you are explaining it sufficiently.

Last edited by Rumline; 03-20-2013 at 1:44 PM..
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  #54  
Old 03-20-2013, 1:44 PM
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Enumerated Rights MUST ALWAYS COME FIRST. Period end of story. If you don't protect those first, then every other Issue you consider important is meaningless, because it can eventually be usurped, too. Remember that. Assume your dream politician came along courting your vote, and he/she agreed with you on every platform that you cared about except one. But that one, is one where he would limit your freedom of speech, or limit your right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures, or infringe on your 2A right to keep and bear arms. Ask yourself if you would vote for that candidate, or have voted in the past for such a candidate. I think that many of the posters here have and do cast such votes without fully analyzing the consequences of such an act.

What you must realize is that some Rights were so important to our founders, that they specifically Enumerated them into our Constitution. In the great skeem of things (things... being the Bill of Rights) the 2A is the most important. For that is the Right that Guarantees all of the others you care about. It enables The People to Correct / Prevent / or ultimately Throw-Off any tyrannical, oppressive government.

IMO, People are blinded by the trees (other issues) in he forest, and don't notice the arson on the edge ready to set the whole thing on fire. They would rather focus on saving a few small stands of Redwoods and seem to ignore the arsonist himself.

I think a little self refection is in order. I try not to demonize people for the stance they take or the way they vote. I do however emphasize the great responsibility they take on when they do (or do not) vote. Actions have consequences and if you cast an uniformed or ignorant vote, (without performing due diligents) just to save that stand of redwoods instead of the forest, then you are part of the problem we have in this country.

With Power comes great responsibility. When an Enumerated Right is under attack, it is every citizens responsibility to fight for it until it is secured again. Then, and only then are they again Free to pursue other agendas important to them.

So there's my 2 cents.....
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  #55  
Old 03-20-2013, 1:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jwkincal View Post
You say that like it is a bad thing?

For many decades now, "gridlock" has been the friend of the common man. The most egregious abuses of power have always come when one (any one) party controls both chambers and the executive office (i.e. when there is 'consensus')

It was Mark Twain who said, 'No man's life, liberty, or property is safe, while Congress is in session.'

That may have been humor, but it was not a joke. And he said that more than a century ago.

^ this

Many people who complain that Congress "can't get anything done" don't realize that the system was set up that way. When you don't have gridlock you have tyranny of the majority. That's "progress" for you.


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I am tired of all the conservatives that keep putting people like Reagan on a pedestal claiming him to be such a great politician when in reality he hurt California pretty bad. And never mind the fact he took away our gun rights.

Or my favorite is how all the gun laws in California are because of liberals when the majority of them were signed into law by republicans.

Like when they kicked out Davis and brought in Arnold. You replaced a democrat for a republican and we lost more gun rights.

So live with the fact that the republicans have taken away a lot of our gun rights in California. You voted for them!

molehills vs mountains - The anti-2A accomplishments of the R's pale in comparison to the anti-2A accomplishments of D's.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stony View Post
I wish I could vote republican/libertarian to protect my 2A rights with a clear conscience... but there are just too many other things that I despise about right wing philosophy. I may end up voting "R" next election because the gun grabbing has reached the point where it is out of control but I'm not sure how many times I will be able to do that without feeling the shame of flushing everything else I believe down the toilet.

Your fears of what R's may do should be overridden by the reality of what the D's have done and will do.
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  #56  
Old 03-20-2013, 1:51 PM
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Vermont and Washington are more gun friendly than my home state of Texas.
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  #57  
Old 03-20-2013, 2:04 PM
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The below post is just an observation on my part. Nothing more...

I've said this in other posts...this thread is a good example of why our US government has been unable to get any real progress. Most, if not all of us, on CGN are gun owners and believe in the 2A, but yet, it seems we are so divided.

What is the solution? Compromise? I wish I knew. If I knew, I'd be one rich and powerful politician.
What I wrote did not mean that I don't like the system of checks and balances we have. Quite the opposite, I agree that it is extremely important to have these checks and balances in order to make sure that no one branch of government over steps their boundaries.
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  #58  
Old 03-20-2013, 2:05 PM
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I have not read most of the posts but here is how I see it.

There are many democrats that are pro gun but don't agree with the republican's views.
That is perfectly fine. However, If you value the views that the democratic party offers more than your second amendment than vote democratic and shut your mouth when the government starts taking away your guns.

Its a trade off that is worth it to some people. If you are one of them then you have no basis to complain when the events like we have been seeing take place.

Last edited by connorr931; 03-20-2013 at 2:54 PM..
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  #59  
Old 03-20-2013, 2:26 PM
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Originally Posted by connorr931 View Post
I have not read most of the posts but here is how I see it.

There are many democrats that are pro gun but don't agree with the republican's views.
That is perfectly fine. However, If you value the views that the democratic party more than your second amendment than vote democratic and shut your mouth when the government starts taking away your guns.

Its a trade off that is worth it to some people. If you are one of them then you have no basis to complain when the events like we have been seeing take place.
That's a very good point. But I'd also remind some that the erosion of our Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights over the past decade can be attributed chiefly to a Republican administration and Republican-appointed SCOTUS Justices (Kennedy excepted). And, granted, Obama has done little - if any - to repeal any of that, and, ironically, some of the harshest critics came from the Republican Party (think Ron and Rand Paul).
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Old 03-20-2013, 2:27 PM
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Originally Posted by connorr931 View Post
I have not read most of the posts but here is how I see it.

There are many democrats that are pro gun but don't agree with the republican's views.
That is perfectly fine. However, If you value the views that the democratic party more than your second amendment than vote democratic and shut your mouth when the government starts taking away your guns.

Its a trade off that is worth it to some people. If you are one of them then you have no basis to complain when the events like we have been seeing take place.
You can't be just a little pregnant, and in my view, you can't be a little pro 2A. Either you support it wholeheartedly, or you relegate it to a backseat status behind other X,Y,& Z issues that are more important to you. That's fine if the 2A IS'NT under attack. but when it IS, then you have to shift your priorities.

Is there a cost? Yes. Other issues you care about may be injured or delayed in implementation. However and again, when an Enumerated Right is under attack, it is every citizens responsibility to fight for it until it is secured again. Then, and only then are they again Free to pursue other agendas important to them.
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I am humbled at the efforts of so many Patriots on this and other forums, CGN, CGF, SAF, NRA, CRPF, MDS etc. etc. I am lucky to be living in an era of a new awakening of the American Spirit; One that embraces it's Constitutional History, and it's Founding Fathers vision, especially in an age of such uncertainty that we are now in.
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  #61  
Old 03-20-2013, 2:28 PM
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Yep, well said DirtyLawyer. You're not so odd there are a few of us.
More than a few.

There are also quite a few Reeps here that will vote GOP before guns (see: Meg Whitman, Dan Lungren) because they let other things override gun matters.
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Old 03-20-2013, 2:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mtnhrdgr2 View Post
Being a democrat or republican does not mean you strictly believe in "everything" republican or democrat. There are other platforms as well. As a whole, I lean more democrat. Just because I lean democrat, it does not mean I am anti-gun. In my first post above, I gave a couple of examples of my views as to why I lean democrat.




edit: i misread your comment/question. I am revising what i wrote to specifically answer your question.
If you vote democrat and they are anti-gun, your anti-gun no matter what you say.....
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Old 03-20-2013, 2:36 PM
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You can't be just a little pregnant, and in my view, you can't be a little pro 2A. Either you support it wholeheartedly, or you relegate it to a backseat status behind other X,Y,& Z issues that are more important to you. That's fine if the 2A IS'NT under attack. but when it IS, then you have to shift your priorities.

Is there a cost? Yes. Other issues you care about may be injured or delayed in implementation. However and again, when an Enumerated Right is under attack, it is every citizens responsibility to fight for it until it is secured again. Then, and only then are they again Free to pursue other agendas important to them.
Well said ,my friend......
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Old 03-20-2013, 2:37 PM
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I have not read most of the posts but here is how I see it.

There are many democrats that are pro gun but don't agree with the republican's views.
That is perfectly fine. However, If you value the views that the democratic party more than your second amendment than vote democratic and shut your mouth when the government starts taking away your guns.

Its a trade off that is worth it to some people. If you are one of them then you have no basis to complain when the events like we have been seeing take place.

I'm curious. Have you ever complained about any actions of the Department of Homeland Security? Or the TSA? Or the Patriot Act? Or FISA, Or the suspension of habeas corpus, etc? And have you voted for republicans?

If you have its fine. There's nothing wrong with that. You will not see me say you have no basis to complain about these or other issues which republicans in office voted for and signed.
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Old 03-20-2013, 2:38 PM
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... You may have a good point but I don't think you are explaining it sufficiently.
You are perhaps correct.

I'll simply state that governments have often granted various "freedoms" to people, usually with conditions. You are "free" to drive a car for instance. That freedom is conditional upon the government granting a license or some other form of permission. Many countries have "freedoms", and their citizens are "free" to do many things ... sometimes freedoms even grant us something (or attempt to) that rights do not.

Liberty is nothing more than a state where the government acknowledges it "has no business" getting involved in certain questions or aspects of how you live your life. The government does not grant you rights, or even establish the conditions whereby you are allowed to exercise them, it simply acknowledges (and ideally protects) your own right to decide.

It's not one of those things easy to explain in English, which is why it causes confusion. This is a common complaint among libertarians, lol.
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  #66  
Old 03-20-2013, 2:44 PM
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If you vote democrat and they are anti-gun, your anti-gun no matter what you say.....

If you voted for a republican who voted for or signed the patriot act and/or the similar ones which followed. Does that make you anti 4th and anti 5th Amendment no matter what you say?
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Old 03-20-2013, 2:50 PM
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More than a few.

There are also quite a few Reeps here that will vote GOP before guns (see: Meg Whitman, Dan Lungren) because they let other things override gun matters.
And they are just as despicable as the so called pro-gun democrats that consistently vote anti-gun.
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Old 03-20-2013, 2:51 PM
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If you voted for a republican who voted for or signed the patriot act and/or the similar ones which followed. Does that make you anti 4th and anti 5th Amendment no matter what you say?
If I repeatedly vote for candidates who consistently support such stupidity - and make it known ahead of time that they will proudly continue to do so - yes.

But that's hardly the case.

It is however, the case that politicians like Diane Feinstein and Charles Schumer have built their careers by attacking 2A rights, over-n-over-over again. They are supported by people having full-knowledge. It's not a matter of making a mistake or being confused by the subtleties.


There's a difference, no mater how hard you work to obscure its clarity.
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Last edited by ZombieTactics; 03-20-2013 at 2:53 PM..
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  #69  
Old 03-20-2013, 2:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Hippies_Have_Guns_Too View Post
If you voted for a republican who voted for or signed the patriot act and/or the similar ones which followed. Does that make you anti 4th and anti 5th Amendment no matter what you say?

Hippes beat me to it.

It must be true, Ruger is anti 4th and 5th ammendment. Way to over-generalize things Ruger
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Old 03-20-2013, 2:53 PM
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I'm curious. Have you ever complained about any actions of the Department of Homeland Security? Or the TSA? Or the Patriot Act? Or FISA, Or the suspension of habeas corpus, etc? And have you voted for republicans?

If you have its fine. There's nothing wrong with that. You will not see me say you have no basis to complain about these or other issues which republicans in office voted for and signed.
No I have not and I never will. I vote republican because I value my gun rights more than almost anything else. I am willing to put up with certain aspects of the republican party because I believe the good outweighs the bad. I may disagree and make my thoughts known (which is necessary for change) but there is a fine line between disagreeing with something and complaining about it. I will never complain about the republicans actions because I supported them knowing that I would have to take the good with the bad.

On the other hand, as I have said, if you vote Democratic you are willing to give up (or risk giving up) your gun rights because you believe other rights are more important. This is perfectly fine just don't complain when all of a sudden you find yourself living in a socialist state.
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Old 03-20-2013, 2:53 PM
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If you voted for a republican who voted for or signed the patriot act and/or the similar ones which followed. Does that make you anti 4th and anti 5th Amendment no matter what you say?
Yes! Did I surprise you?

I voted against every Republican that supported the patriot act, I was 'kicking and screaming' before they voted for it. I still hate G Bush to this day.....Did I surprise you again?
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Old 03-20-2013, 2:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Hippies_Have_Guns_Too View Post
If you voted for a republican (knowing he was going to) vote for or sign the patriot act and/or the similar ones which followed. Does that make you anti 4th and anti 5th Amendment no matter what you say?
Fixed it for you. There is a difference. Knowingly voting for any candidate (Republican or Democrat) who will vote to usurp your 2A Rights (or any other Enumerated Right) is an affront to the Constitution.
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I am humbled at the efforts of so many Patriots on this and other forums, CGN, CGF, SAF, NRA, CRPF, MDS etc. etc. I am lucky to be living in an era of a new awakening of the American Spirit; One that embraces it's Constitutional History, and it's Founding Fathers vision, especially in an age of such uncertainty that we are now in.
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Go cheap you will always have cheap and if you sell, it will sell for even cheaper. Buy the best you can every time.
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Old 03-20-2013, 2:55 PM
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You can't be just a little pregnant, and in my view, you can't be a little pro 2A....
Correct, you can't just be a little pregnant, but I will challenge your view on 2A support.

Do you believe all US citizens should be able to have machine guns, RPGs, etc.? Do you believe convicted felons should be able to have machine guns, RPGs, etc.? Do you believe those convicted of felony gun violence should be able to have machine guns, RPGs, etc.?
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Old 03-20-2013, 2:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mtnhrdgr2 View Post
Hippes beat me to it.

It must be true, Ruger is anti 4th and 5th ammendment. Way to over-generalize things Ruger
Wrong. See above post. I am not an Obama or Bush fan.....
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  #75  
Old 03-20-2013, 2:56 PM
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No offense, but you guys comparing yourself to Special Forces guys is just laughable.

This is not a battle. It's a cold war. And wars don't get just won on the ground. They're executed thanks to strategy, diplomacy, and alliances.

Alienating people with this kind of partisan talk is accomplishing nothing. Take your venting to OT where it belongs.

And by the way, I am not a Democrat.
Maybe they should follow you?

A.W.D.
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  #76  
Old 03-20-2013, 2:59 PM
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Correct, you can't just be a little pregnant, but I will challenge your view on 2A support.

Do you believe all US citizens should be able to have machine guns, RPGs, etc.? Do you believe convicted felons should be able to have machine guns, RPGs, etc.? Do you believe those convicted of felony gun violence should be able to have machine guns, RPGs, etc.?
"SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED"

Simple and plain English, not hard to understand at all. If a criminal has paid their dues, then let them out, if it is so bad they shouldn't be let out, imprison them.
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  #77  
Old 03-20-2013, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MotoriousRacing View Post
Correct, you can't just be a little pregnant, but I will challenge your view on 2A support.

Do you believe all US citizens should be able to have machine guns, RPGs, etc.? Do you believe convicted felons should be able to have machine guns, RPGs, etc.? Do you believe those convicted of felony gun violence should be able to have machine guns, RPGs, etc.?
Challenge my view? Please point to that view, you know, the one your challenging. Nice try to drag the conversation down into the straw-man territory. So THAT is your rational for voting for an anti-gun candidate? Please point me to the current Bills under consideration to legalize these things. No? Why no come out and say what you really mean. That you disagree with the other statement in my post... namely this one.....

Quote:
....when an Enumerated Right is under attack, it is every citizens responsibility to fight for it until it is secured again. Then, and only then are they again Free to pursue other agendas important to them.
Must have hit a nerve with that one, LOL.
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I am humbled at the efforts of so many Patriots on this and other forums, CGN, CGF, SAF, NRA, CRPF, MDS etc. etc. I am lucky to be living in an era of a new awakening of the American Spirit; One that embraces it's Constitutional History, and it's Founding Fathers vision, especially in an age of such uncertainty that we are now in.
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Go cheap you will always have cheap and if you sell, it will sell for even cheaper. Buy the best you can every time.
^^^ Wise Man. Take his advice
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  #78  
Old 03-20-2013, 3:19 PM
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IMO if a "pro gun" democrat voted for DiFi or 0bama then they are NOT pro gun. They are only fair weather gun owners. like the gun shop in AZ said, if you voted for 0bama, get out.
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  #79  
Old 03-20-2013, 3:19 PM
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Amen, brother. No such thing as a pro-2A Democrat.
The closest it comes are people like Harry Reid who would put a AW ban on the floor in a heartbeat if he didn't think it would put him in an unemployment line next election.

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Old 03-20-2013, 3:23 PM
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IMO if a "pro gun" democrat voted for DiFi or 0bama then they are NOT pro gun. They are only fair weather gun owners. like the gun shop in AZ said, if you voted for 0bama, get out.
In before the:

"But but but I am going to compleatly ignore reality and claim that Romney banned new guns that were not banned before he got there"
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