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  #81  
Old 01-30-2008, 8:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pottymouth310 View Post
anyone know anyplace here in LA that sells chronographs?
Did you ask this on enough threads yet?
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  #82  
Old 01-30-2008, 8:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Did you ask this on enough threads yet?
just here & the .223 side?
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  #83  
Old 01-30-2008, 9:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Nom de Guerre View Post
Randall, thanks! That makes sense. I hadn't thought of checking their respective BC's.

I have one other question your reply brought up in my mind.

You wrote, "I'm shooting 155 SMK's at 2875fps and I still have some margin to warm up the load some more."

How do you know how much further you can push your load? Is the pressure generated by the load combination (bullet, powder type, powder charge, etc.) the main determining factor of the safety margin?

Are you using a ballistic program to help determine how fast you can push the 155 Scenar before getting into the danger zone?

I've been working up my loads with the data from a couple of sources of loading manuals, powder manufacturer data, etc., and I then chrono my loads as I work them up. I've been well shy of max loads, but I have no real idea of what the pressures of my loads are. I've just been going on the the info from the loading manuals, and trusting that since I am well below max loads, and in the case of 168 SMK, I am dialed in to right around 2650 - 2680 fps, that I am okay in the safety department.

I'd love to have a ballistic program, but being a Mac computer guy, I'm not sure there's really anything available. I really don't want to load Windows on my Mac, so that's not the solution for me.
Here it is
http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/calculations/traj/traj.html
I have Palm 5 series with
http://proprock.chat.ru/software/ssf.html
loaded. They both give consistent results to me.
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  #84  
Old 01-30-2008, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by olegk View Post
Internal Ballistics, not external ballistics.

www.neconos.com/details3.htm
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  #85  
Old 01-30-2008, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by olegk View Post
Here it is
http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/calculations/traj/traj.html
I have Palm 5 series with
http://proprock.chat.ru/software/ssf.html
loaded. They both give consistent results to me.
Correction for Palm software link I posted for windows platform. This is correct one
http://proprock.chat.ru/software/pssf.html
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  #86  
Old 01-30-2008, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by pottymouth310 View Post
thanks, can you tell me were Angeles Range store is? Is that what they're called?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottymouth310 View Post
anyone know anyplace here in LA that sells chronographs?
What are these to do with "Recipe (.308)"!?!?!?!?!



If you have a question, start a new thread.
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  #87  
Old 01-30-2008, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by olegk View Post
Correction for Palm software link I posted for windows platform. This is correct one
http://proprock.chat.ru/software/pssf.html
Are you aware of the difference between internal ballistics (powder combustion and consumption) and external ballistics (bullet flight and performance within the target)?
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  #88  
Old 01-30-2008, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Are you aware of the difference between internal ballistics (powder combustion and consumption) and external ballistics (bullet flight and performance within the target)?
Now I am . Thank you.
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  #89  
Old 01-30-2008, 7:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Jicko View Post
What are these to do with "Recipe (.308)"!?!?!?!?!



If you have a question, start a new thread.
Are you stuck on stupid or are you just being a jerk?

1. read crowbars post, I was looking for Hodgdon powder & he said Angeles Range store might have it.

2. Chronograph: I'm reloading .308, I think this is a appropriate place to ask? we're talk about bullet weight, powder grains, muzzle velocity & the equipment to obtain them.

the majority is still about .308 recipe, but I just asked 2 things about getting stuff to reload .308 and your acting like a biatch...
So, back off....
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  #90  
Old 01-31-2008, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pottymouth310 View Post
Are you stuck on stupid or are you just being a jerk?

1. read crowbars post, I was looking for Hodgdon powder & he said Angeles Range store might have it.

2. Chronograph: I'm reloading .308, I think this is a appropriate place to ask? we're talk about bullet weight, powder grains, muzzle velocity & the equipment to obtain them.

the majority is still about .308 recipe, but I just asked 2 things about getting stuff to reload .308 and your acting like a biatch...
So, back off....
lol! rofl!

very nice names calling!

keep that attitude, and keep posting the same question on multiple threads..... and i bet you will get tons of answer to your "smart" question....
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  #91  
Old 02-12-2008, 11:47 AM
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Default Some info on M118LR

M118LR
175SMK
2580fps

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  #92  
Old 02-12-2008, 12:28 PM
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Sounds like a load you may want to work on Jicko. If your gun doesn't like the scenars, the 175 smk is the best as far as ease of loading. It should shoot well with little effort.
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  #93  
Old 02-12-2008, 12:38 PM
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to replicate M118LR the recipe is

LCLR brass, 210M or 210 primer, 42.8 - 43.4 grn RE15 (that's the powder in M118LR) and 175 SMKs. You want velocity around 2650 - I know they say 2580 but IIRC that was taken at 75 feet from the muzzle not 10.
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  #94  
Old 02-12-2008, 12:47 PM
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Default M118LR (175SMK)

Yes, that would be my next try.....

And old thread with some great info:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=55253

PS. I am tempted to acquire some more 173gr M118 SB (NATO special ball), but they weren't cheap or easy to find. :-(
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  #95  
Old 02-12-2008, 12:54 PM
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Leave the 173s alone unless you are sure they are early production. The QC on them went to sh*t towards the end, which is why people starting pulling them and replacing with 168s (commonly known as "mexican match") and later the 175s.

Get some 175s, develope a load for the brass you intend to use, and stick with it - they won't let you down.
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  #96  
Old 02-12-2008, 1:38 PM
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Pick up a box of FGMM 175g and see how they shoot in your gun. Mine loved them so I duped the load (in velocity) for my 700. Shot to 0.4 out of my gun.
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  #97  
Old 02-12-2008, 1:42 PM
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"Pick up a box of FGMM 175gr" <- that is a good idea!! Or.... BHA 175....
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  #98  
Old 02-12-2008, 2:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf View Post
Leave the 173s alone unless you are sure they are early production. The QC on them went to sh*t towards the end, which is why people starting pulling them and replacing with 168s (commonly known as "mexican match") and later the 175s.

Amen. I bought a can of 1500 of those bullets from the CMP back when. They vary in weight by 1.5grs from one to the next. They shoot OK on some rifles, not-so-OK in others. For some reason, they shoot best in my worst barrels (M1903's and Field Grade M1's). SMK works well all the time and I've found the .308 Nosler flavors to be just as good!
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  #99  
Old 02-15-2008, 7:55 AM
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Default Info needed!

Thanks to a fellow shooter, I have got some (10ish) Sierra 155 Palma, 175SMK and 180SMK bullets. And I've got some VARGET.

Can you guys give me some recipe to try out this weekend? I would like to nail down what to go with... 155Scenars or 175SMK....... RL15 or VARGET....

I know that both bullets and both powder should serve me well, yet I want to find THE ONE that is good for my rifle. So, please... any recipe for me?

I would want to do a matrix of (and will be loading to 2.8" or under, for this test)

Bullets:
- Lapua 155 Scenar
- Sierra 155 Palma
- 168 SMK
- 175 SMK

Powders (various wt of):
- Alliant RL15
- Hodgon VARGET

And if I have time, I would like to do various wt of RL15 & VARGET with 77gr Nosler CC HPBT too.

I've also got some M852(168SMK), BHA 168SMK and some Mk262Mod1 to test. It would be a FUN president day!!!

If you have any suggestion, please shoot forward!!
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  #100  
Old 02-15-2008, 7:59 AM
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Geez.. that's some patience you got there. You're STILL testing? I suppose it may pay off in the end.. hopefully soon so you can just start shooting!
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  #101  
Old 02-15-2008, 8:02 AM
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I know, I just wasn't as lucky as your guys, and I just don't want to give up and go back to just shooting FGMM or BHA.
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  #102  
Old 02-15-2008, 8:12 AM
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I run 46.5gr of Varget under a moly coated 155 Palma SMK at 2.800 OAL in Federal GMM cases.
I would drop down to 45.5 or 46 without the moly.
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  #103  
Old 02-15-2008, 8:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jicko View Post
I know, I just wasn't as lucky as your guys, and I just don't want to give up and go back to just shooting FGMM or BHA.
Did FGMM not work for you?

I may have to go the 155 Scenar route eventually.. allows for a higher amount of user error as far as range estimation goes. It would be pretty sweet for hold over shooting too with its flatter trajectory. I'll do it when I chop my barrel down and maybe rechamber.
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  #104  
Old 02-15-2008, 8:24 AM
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Did FGMM not work for you?

I may have to go the 155 Scenar route eventually.. allows for a higher amount of user error as far as range estimation goes. It would be pretty sweet for hold over shooting too with its flatter trajectory. I'll do it when I chop my barrel down and maybe rechamber.
So far, 155Scenar aren't doing too good for me, even Lapua Factory rounds do slightly over 1MOA @ 100yds. While 168SMK and 173M118SB consistently go under 1MOA. That means FGMM308M should be good. I haven't got the chance until now to test 175SMK (or FGMM308M2), and if it behaves like 168SMK, I would be good to go.

I'll give 155Scnears 1 last chance with VARGET, per ZakS recommendation.

We'll see.
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  #105  
Old 02-15-2008, 9:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Jicko View Post
So far, 155Scenar aren't doing too good for me, even Lapua Factory rounds do slightly over 1MOA @ 100yds. While 168SMK and 173M118SB consistently go under 1MOA. That means FGMM308M should be good. I haven't got the chance until now to test 175SMK (or FGMM308M2), and if it behaves like 168SMK, I would be good to go.

I'll give 155Scnears 1 last chance with VARGET, per ZakS recommendation.

We'll see.
Well if you need a load to duplicate 168 FGMM loads, I use 42.4 gr IMR4064 to do it. Most use 42.5 gr so maybe it's just my scale. Then again, I set it out to 2.815" OAL.
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  #106  
Old 02-15-2008, 1:26 PM
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Well if you need a load to duplicate 168 FGMM loads, I use 42.4 gr IMR4064 to do it. Most use 42.5 gr so maybe it's just my scale. Then again, I set it out to 2.815" OAL.
I need to dupe the FGMM308M2 (175SMK) version. And that would be my starting point. I'll play with seating depths later!
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  #107  
Old 02-15-2008, 1:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jicko View Post
I need to dupe the FGMM308M2 (175SMK) version. And that would be my starting point. I'll play with seating depths later!
I hear that can be duped w/ 42.4 gr IMR4064. Can't say for sure though since i've never actually done it myself.
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  #108  
Old 02-15-2008, 1:35 PM
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Originally Posted by wildcard View Post
I hear that can be duped w/ 42.4 gr IMR4064. Can't say for sure though since i've never actually done it myself.
From my research, I am gonna go with 42.5gr of VARGET to try to hit the target MV of 2580 to dupe the M118LR.

Or go with 45gr of RL15 to try to get to 2750fps.

Or I'll try one of those published on http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html ; there are quite a lot of data on .308 175SMKs.
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  #109  
Old 02-15-2008, 1:35 PM
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175 FGMM - FGMM brass, 210M, 42.2 IMR4064, 175 SMK - also can substitute 43.0 RE 15 or 42.0 IMR4895.
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  #110  
Old 02-15-2008, 7:33 PM
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Tested this morning in Lincoln, CA. The wind was starting to come up towards the end of the test. I could probably find another "happy" node up around 47 grains, but 3000 fps is fast enough.

All fired through a 30" Krieger, .3065, Medium Palma contour, Winchester brass, Varget powder (#4557), 154 Lapua - jammed +- .003", CCI BR primer

45.00 gr. - .310 group, 2950 fps, 20.6 ES, 7.3 SD
45.50 gr. - .445 group, 2984 fps, 23.6 ES, 10.8 SD
45.75 gr. - .175 group, 2995 fps, 11.3 ES, 5.2 SD
46.00 gr. - .390 group, 3014 fps, 11.4 ES, 4.5 SD
46.25 gr. - .770 group, 3031 fps, 21.8 ES, 8.6 SD
46.50 gr. - .560 group, 3064 fps, 23.6 ES, 9.5 SD

The 155 Sierra likes about the same load, but jumped .020. With another lot of Varget, I am using 46 grains, with similar results. Pretty easy to get the Sierra's to shoot.

Lane
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  #111  
Old 02-28-2008, 11:46 AM
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From the tech sheet the muzzle velocity for M852 (168grn HPBT) is 2650fps, but measured 78 ft from the muzzle. As most of us have our cronographs @ 15 - 20 ft away, is there a way to extrapolate back to find what the velocity would be at the muzzle.

So the question is, if the military says the vel is 2650fps @ 78 feet, should we be looking for 2700fps at the muzzle?

Or, am I thinking to much into this?
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  #112  
Old 02-28-2008, 4:36 PM
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I am shooting 168gr SMK with 42grs of IMR 4064 powder in Lapua brass. OAL is 2.778. These loads are shot out of my H&S Precision HTR 2000 and are dead on.
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  #113  
Old 03-03-2008, 7:36 PM
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I've got great results with 175SMKs!!

5 Shots groups @ 100yds are all under 1". Most of these groups have like 3 rounds that are on top of each other thru the same hole.

Now, which one should I go with, is faster the better?

RL15, LC04 cases, CCI #200, OAL 2.81ish (ES/SD), chrono @ 12yds

42gr -> 2630fps (49/19)
43gr -> 2710fps (63/27)
44gr -> 2781fps (45/17)
45gr -> 2835fps (47/18)

PS. btw, 2580fps @ 78ft roughly equal to 2620 @ 12yds
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  #114  
Old 03-03-2008, 8:58 PM
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Now, which one should I go with, is faster the better?
Go with the most accurate one at 300yds.
If they are all the same, go with the fastest one.
It will shoot flatter.
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  #115  
Old 03-20-2008, 1:26 AM
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From my research, mil spec and duplication loads (MV is measured @ 78ft)

M80 7.62 mm
149gr FMJBT
275020fps
42.5gr IMR4895 OR 46 grs. 748 or Ball C2

M118 7.62 mm Special Ball
173gr FMJBT
255030fps
43 grs. of RL15 OR 748

M118 7.62 mm Special Ball LR
175gr HPBT (Sierra MK bullet)
258030fps
42.5 grs. of Varget

M852 7.62 mm MATCH
168gr HPBT (Sierra MK bullet)
255030fps
41.5grs of IMR4895
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  #116  
Old 04-08-2008, 2:41 PM
Jicko Jicko is offline
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Is 45gr of RL15 too much for 175SMK?

I tried to settle with 43.0 or 43.5gr of RL15 driving 175SMK @ around 2700fps (@12ft).

But from my past test results, 45gr of RL15 driving 175SMK @ 2800ish fps seems to give me good result @ 100yds. (So do 43, but 45 seems to be better)

I don't see any pressure signs tho.

I don't have the luxury to test @ 300yds.

I need to make 150rounds of ammo for the rifle class at the end of May and another 150rounds for the match in July.

[weapon is Rem700PSS, 26" barrel]
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  #117  
Old 04-08-2008, 2:55 PM
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Still going at it huh? You're pushing those SMK's pretty fast! How do you groupings look when you slow it down?
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  #118  
Old 04-08-2008, 3:22 PM
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175 at 2800 is pushing it. You might have problems when it heats up. I'd go with the lighter load at 2700. You don't want to be in the middle of the class blowing primers or getting cases stuck.
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  #119  
Old 04-08-2008, 3:36 PM
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Jicko - you're pushing 45 grn of RE15 in reg LC cases under 175s without pressure ?????? You must have one hell of a large factory chamber and a desire to change barrels sooner rather than later - anyway I'd be interested to see what happens in the 100 deg heat of SCPRC '08 during a rapid fire stage.
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Old 04-09-2008, 11:48 AM
Jicko Jicko is offline
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Yeah.... that's the reason why I want to stay @ 43gr w/ 2700fps (.8-1MOA).... but seemingly.... the groups w/ 45gr @ 2800fps is better....

And... YES, I think my factory chamber is large and long... I think I can seat to 2.9 and still hasn't hit the land....

I was testing @ 55-65deg this past wkend....

PS. how much faster will they be... when it is 100deg..... when I clocked 2800 @ 65deg?
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