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  #1  
Old 03-19-2013, 3:02 PM
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Default Greed finally hits a wall

Yesterday I made the rounds of three local gun stores, mostly out of curiosity on handgun and ammo stock.

Two of them still looked like they'd been attacked by a swarm of gun locusts, with hardly any handguns on the shelf... Although the ammo situation was slightly better, at least a few boxes of most calibers in stock.

The third store is, shall we say, known for somewhat elevated prices even under normal circumstances. These are not normal times. Surprise, there was a Glock 19 on the shelf, and several other things I haven't seen in a while, all at prices that made me gasp. They even had cases of ammo on the floor, stacks of them... 1000 rounds of 9mm for a mere $499. Ouch.

It was good to see that even now there are limits to what people are willing to pay for guns and ammo. It appears that while these guys have plenty of supply, most of the demand continues to frequent the less greedy competition even if that means exercising a little patience.

Last edited by Knomad; 03-19-2013 at 3:04 PM..
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Old 03-19-2013, 3:22 PM
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Good for them. I don't care what anyone else says about it being a free market or hoarding. That **** is killing it for everyone else. You have every right to hoard as much as you want, but do you really need it? Sucks for guys like me because I just want a box or two to go to the range and I can't even make tht happen.
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  #3  
Old 03-19-2013, 3:23 PM
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  #4  
Old 03-19-2013, 3:23 PM
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Knomad,

Just so you know this not the first time this has happened. The trick is to be prepared the next time around so you don't get caught with your pants down.

Always keep plenty stocked up. Buy low/sell high.
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Old 03-19-2013, 3:34 PM
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Yeah, the bubble will pop soon.

The hoarders are going to sit on theirs, but a lot of speculators went out and ran up the family Mastercard up buying ammo figuring on doubling their money in short order. Then the monkey-see-monkey-do types went out and ran their credits over the limits, figuring on doing the same.

As soon as things start to ease up, and they will, a lot of people are going to look at their maxed credit card statements and wish they hadn't a done it.

The smart ones are getting ready to let go of their stash so they can make some profit, the dumb ones still think they're going to get triple their money and will hold out - until the wife figures out why the cards don't work at the shoe store anymore and the failed, get-rich-quick-on-ammo scheme comes to light.

Just wait, as soon as the demand is satisfied and stuff stays on the shelves for little while, the price will drop rapidly.

Just like oil did in 2008. One month, $144 a bbl. The next month, < $50. Once the supply exceeds actual consumption, it's like an avalanche.
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  #6  
Old 03-19-2013, 3:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistolgrip Pump View Post
Good for them. I don't care what anyone else says about it being a free market or hoarding. That **** is killing it for everyone else. You have every right to hoard as much as you want, but do you really need it? Sucks for guys like me because I just want a box or two to go to the range and I can't even make tht happen.
I find it holarious because they may say hey free country and act all cool because they already got their guns and ammo..

But when their cable/phone bill raises $20 a month for no reason or their gas prices or they get a ticket higher than it was before they probably bi** and cry like the rest of us because it effects them directly..
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Old 03-19-2013, 4:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistolgrip Pump View Post
Good for them. I don't care what anyone else says about it being a free market or hoarding. That **** is killing it for everyone else. You have every right to hoard as much as you want, but do you really need it? Sucks for guys like me because I just want a box or two to go to the range and I can't even make tht happen.
They (the range) do sell ammo. I was at OnTarget yesterday and saw a case of 500 of 9mm reload for $150.


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Old 03-19-2013, 4:25 PM
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a case of 500
a case is a thousand.
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Old 03-19-2013, 4:33 PM
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a case is a thousand.
Their black plastic cases contain only 500.

Didn't know there is a definition of an ammo "case". Thank you for pointing this.


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  #10  
Old 03-19-2013, 5:13 PM
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Default Good Market Intel

Thanks Knomad. Now we know the price ceiling, for now anyway.

San Jose gun show last week had XM193, Federal .223 55 grain FMJ, for 1 dollar a round. And Wolf WPA 7.62X39 for .50 cents a round. No takers as of late Saturday. Combine this with the fact SJ gunshow had the longest waiting line to get in they ever had.
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Old 03-19-2013, 5:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Knomad View Post
It was good to see that even now there are limits to what people are willing to pay for guns and ammo. It appears that while these guys have plenty of supply, most of the demand continues to frequent the less greedy competition even if that means exercising a little patience.
While I don't "boycott" anything there is one local shop that jacked their primer prices back in '09. Fair enough, free market. But they were also bragging about having "pallets of 'em" in the back. Kinda being jackasses. I still go there, but only as a last resort, and I haven't been down to "last resort" for a long, long time.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackRydden224
I hope Ruger pays the extortion fees for the SR1911. I mean the gun is just as good if not better than a Les Baer.
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Originally Posted by redcliff View Post
A Colt collector shooting Rugers is like Hugh Grant cheating on Elizabeth Hurley with a hooker.
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  #12  
Old 03-19-2013, 5:34 PM
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You've got it backwards. The high prices prevent hoarding. In fact that dealer is serving a vital purpose. He should be commended.

One, he's helping establish the upper bounds of the market price. If it sells or not is essential information for ALL buyers and sellers.

Two the fact that the price is so "high" is good. If you needed it the ammo was available.

Three the higher prices send signals to producers to make more. Surely he'll pay more to the manufacturers to get more ammo and as they make more the prices and profits send signals to everyone abou which ammo to make and how much. Hell, you can find 7mag anywhere. Prices on that haven't changed. Sellers need that info too.

Thankfully someone around here teaches economics.
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  #13  
Old 03-19-2013, 5:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
a case is a thousand.
I believe a case is "a container designed to hold or protect something".
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  #14  
Old 03-19-2013, 5:50 PM
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There is one of those near me as well. They have more stock than anyone else in the bay area (at lest that I have seen) both guns & ammo. BUT their prices are high.... I do see a lot of LEOS buying there while in uniform (maybe on the PD"S dime? ) but that is about it. It is nice to know though in a pinch I can get pretty much anything there that I would need.

Luckily I am one is those evil hoarders , and have more than enough ammo at my normal shooting pace until things calm down...
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  #15  
Old 03-19-2013, 7:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistolgrip Pump View Post
Good for them. I don't care what anyone else says about it being a free market or hoarding. That **** is killing it for everyone else. You have every right to hoard as much as you want, but do you really need it? Sucks for guys like me because I just want a box or two to go to the range and I can't even make tht happen.
Brother, you were not prepared. And the true hoarders play no role in this. We had all our ammo well before Sandy Hook and haven't bought a round since. Heck, with the election, I switched from ammo and started hoarding components.
How much 9mm can you hoard at 500.00 bucks a case? This was all so predictable, but most didn't heed the warnings posted all over this site.
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  #16  
Old 03-19-2013, 7:28 PM
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More cry babies than gun owners these days.
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  #17  
Old 03-19-2013, 7:39 PM
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No, it is more "cry-baby gun-owners." I've read a few older members posts lamenting the situation also. As most of the people have said, get your stockpile up and keep it up. That was the mantra I saw way before all of the current craziness. It only takes one incident to incite a panic as we saw happen.
Maybe now we will all think a little more farsighted when buying our supplies, be it ammo or even emergency food and water. I wonder how many of the same guys will be swearing to high heaven when there isn't any food or water available after some emergency?
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Old 03-19-2013, 7:46 PM
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The nice thing is that I do have enough to get by, I've kept a few hundred rounds of my major calibers around for a long time and just replenished as I use it. These past few months, that's meant less practice because I couldn't be sure of finding more, and when I have it's usually been a couple of boxes at a time. Overall I've bought much less ammo during the panic than before. Great excuse to shoot my 30.06 more often actually, that stuff is easy to find.

For what it's worth I stopped at Walmart (Eureka) on the way home from the office tonight and got there just as a pallet was being unloaded. All I bought was a couple boxes of 357 sig because I'm picking up a used one in a couple weeks and need something to try it out with, but they also had some 45acp WWB ($40/100rds), 40 S&W (Federal), 38spec, even a little 223 and 22 LR. Except for a few larger rifle calibers, it was never even going to make the shelf, they were breaking it out of the boxes and selling it to the short but steady line of people who suddenly appeared. Most of it is probably gone by now. The guy behind the counter told me they got a shipment of 9mm WWB yesterday which only lasted a couple hours.

Still, it's a good sign that shipments are beginning to come in more regularly, and that the line was relatively short and most people weren't even buying the full three box limit. If that trend holds, the greedy guys down the street are going to have a whole lot of overpriced ammo on their hands to go with their counter filled to bursting with overpriced guns.

Interesting economics lesson, they are charging much more and probably their net at the end of the month is much less because the stock isn't turning over. Oh wait, they taught us that in Macroeconomics 101...
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  #19  
Old 03-19-2013, 9:08 PM
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Originally Posted by uhlan1 View Post
Brother, you were not prepared. And the true hoarders play no role in this. We had all our ammo well before Sandy Hook and haven't bought a round since. Heck, with the election, I switched from ammo and started hoarding components.
How much 9mm can you hoard at 500.00 bucks a case? This was all so predictable, but most didn't heed the warnings posted all over this site.
I had no way of being prepared considering I just got started in this hobby. Maybe I've got it wrong. That's just what it seems like to me.
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Old 03-19-2013, 9:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistolgrip Pump View Post
I had no way of being prepared considering I just got started in this hobby. Maybe I've got it wrong. That's just what it seems like to me.
No, that's fair. Just be ready for the next one. And there will be a next one.
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Old 03-19-2013, 9:35 PM
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That's why I believe the Soviet model of price controls is such a great policy and that's why the Soviet Union is now so successful and powerful ......sigh ...
Why don't we force any potential seller of good condition used glock 17's to price at under MSRP? At like $500. How many people would sell at that price? Would that price attract you to sell your used glock 17?
What about your hoard of 9mm ammo? Let's set prices at $300 per 1,000 for all federal, Winchester, etc big brand. How many of you would sell at that price? And why not?
Obviously nobody will sell at those prices , which would then cause no supply in the market.
Forget about trying to explain things in economics terms, it's just simple human nature.
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Old 03-20-2013, 5:31 AM
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Old 03-20-2013, 6:30 AM
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Originally Posted by chim-chim7 View Post
More cry babies than gun owners these days.
Exactly. The "you don't need all that ammo so let me buy it for cheap" is close to the same argument as "you don't need magazines over 10 rounds." Don't tell me what I need. Let the marketplace work freely. Complain it is expensive but don't feel entitled anyone has to do you any favors.
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Old 03-20-2013, 6:36 AM
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+1

i havent had to buy ammo since september and im shooting between 200 and 400 rounds of 45acp a month. only thing i got caught short on was 38 special.

theres a reason ive had 10k in 22 ammo stocked for the last two years. id buy a couple box's every time i went to wal-mart of both 12ga and 22.



Quote:
Originally Posted by uhlan1 View Post
Brother, you were not prepared. And the true hoarders play no role in this. We had all our ammo well before Sandy Hook and haven't bought a round since. Heck, with the election, I switched from ammo and started hoarding components.
How much 9mm can you hoard at 500.00 bucks a case? This was all so predictable, but most didn't heed the warnings posted all over this site.
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  #25  
Old 03-20-2013, 7:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knomad View Post
Yesterday I made the rounds of three local gun stores, mostly out of curiosity on handgun and ammo stock.

Two of them still looked like they'd been attacked by a swarm of gun locusts, with hardly any handguns on the shelf... Although the ammo situation was slightly better, at least a few boxes of most calibers in stock.

The third store is, shall we say, known for somewhat elevated prices even under normal circumstances. These are not normal times. Surprise, there was a Glock 19 on the shelf, and several other things I haven't seen in a while, all at prices that made me gasp. They even had cases of ammo on the floor, stacks of them... 1000 rounds of 9mm for a mere $499. Ouch.

It was good to see that even now there are limits to what people are willing to pay for guns and ammo. It appears that while these guys have plenty of supply, most of the demand continues to frequent the less greedy competition even if that means exercising a little patience.
Me thinks you didn't pay attention in Econ class.
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Old 03-20-2013, 7:55 AM
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Originally Posted by CK_32 View Post
I find it holarious because they may say hey free country and act all cool because they already got their guns and ammo..
So, you're saying you've got the butt-hurt since you've been here for >2 years and didn't notice price changes as last year's presidential election approached.

I find that hilarious.
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Old 03-20-2013, 8:48 AM
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But, but, I don't NEED lots of ammo since I only shoot 100 rds per caliber, per trip, so really I just NEED a few hundred of each. Just like I really don't NEED an ar 15 with 30 round mags. Joe Biden said so.

All this "need" talk makes me think your last name is Brady, Yee, Biden, or Hussein Obama.

I was worried about getting .223 for a while since I favored my ak over my ar for the longest, but I just paid $235 for enough bullets, primers, and powder to make 1k rounds. Thank God for hoarders, and making friends with them
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knomad View Post
Yesterday I made the rounds of three local gun stores, mostly out of curiosity on handgun and ammo stock.

Two of them still looked like they'd been attacked by a swarm of gun locusts, with hardly any handguns on the shelf... Although the ammo situation was slightly better, at least a few boxes of most calibers in stock.

The third store is, shall we say, known for somewhat elevated prices even under normal circumstances. These are not normal times. Surprise, there was a Glock 19 on the shelf, and several other things I haven't seen in a while, all at prices that made me gasp. They even had cases of ammo on the floor, stacks of them... 1000 rounds of 9mm for a mere $499. Ouch.

It was good to see that even now there are limits to what people are willing to pay for guns and ammo. It appears that while these guys have plenty of supply, most of the demand continues to frequent the less greedy competition even if that means exercising a little patience.
It's a free market brotha. I dropped $10k in the last 30 days at ~50% premiums because I believe the Cali ban is yet to come. If I'm wrong I take a ~$2500 hit over market. If I'm right I win. Keep the market free, we're not a socialist country (yet) - it is what it is and some of us are willing to pay to play and roll the dice. This is what America is about.
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Old 03-21-2013, 9:37 AM
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I remember 2008, drought followed by lots of stuff available. I think the market has a "Slinky" effect. Demand at the front end goes way out, leaving the tail end of Supply way behind. Supply works overtime to catch up and all of a sudden Demand puts on the brakes - but Supply has its own momentum and crashes into the now static back end of Demand.

The April show in Reno will be interesting, see if there's much supply or tight.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:28 AM
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I am retired so i have time to go to walmart and the local gun shop pretty often. the local place has been getting ammo and also guns in but sporadically. you guys that are hurting for ammo might have someone like me look for ammo for you while you are busy working. 2 days ago i got winchester white box 9mm for 22 bucks for 100 rounds plus tax. and the last 2 weeks ive been picking up winchester white box 45 acp for 44 bucks for 100 rounds. this same 45 ammo is sellin for 59.99 a box at our big five , so i dont buy it. at times i have found 223 at the local store for as low as 8.99 for remington. the rush is still in full swing but we dont have to buy at gouging prices such as alot on the market place here. now if i could find a few factory smith m and p 22 pistol mags for one of my wifes new guns id be ok ,lol.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistolgrip Pump View Post
I had no way of being prepared considering I just got started in this hobby. Maybe I've got it wrong. That's just what it seems like to me.
Just ride it out. Watch for "decent" deals and be ready to pounce when you find one. Buy only what you need at today's prices. When things normalize, THEN you start to build your stockpile.

And buy a reloading press.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackRydden224
I hope Ruger pays the extortion fees for the SR1911. I mean the gun is just as good if not better than a Les Baer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redcliff View Post
A Colt collector shooting Rugers is like Hugh Grant cheating on Elizabeth Hurley with a hooker.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:37 AM
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It's either some guy with a Crystal ball, or a new guy complaining about prices. Not much in between.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:38 AM
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All I have to say is just remember the businesses that were fair and raised their prices to a reasonable level... Give them your future business when this is all over..


As for the businesses that were gauging.. I will be avoiding doing any business with them whenever possible..
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:00 PM
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Seems quite a few people missed Econ 101 in school
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:09 PM
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Seems quite a few people missed Econ 101 in school
No kidding.

If no one bought anything at the inflated prices, guess what

The prices would come down.

Reminds me of the expression

"We have met the enemy, and he is us"

Personally, I don't play. I haven't bought anything in 2 years

And I've got everything I need and want.
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  #36  
Old 03-21-2013, 12:10 PM
ApexMolester ApexMolester is offline
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Originally Posted by Just_some_guy View Post
Yeah, the bubble will pop soon.

The hoarders are going to sit on theirs, but a lot of speculators went out and ran up the family Mastercard up buying ammo figuring on doubling their money in short order. Then the monkey-see-monkey-do types went out and ran their credits over the limits, figuring on doing the same.

As soon as things start to ease up, and they will, a lot of people are going to look at their maxed credit card statements and wish they hadn't a done it.

The smart ones are getting ready to let go of their stash so they can make some profit, the dumb ones still think they're going to get triple their money and will hold out - until the wife figures out why the cards don't work at the shoe store anymore and the failed, get-rich-quick-on-ammo scheme comes to light.

Just wait, as soon as the demand is satisfied and stuff stays on the shelves for little while, the price will drop rapidly.

Just like oil did in 2008. One month, $144 a bbl. The next month, < $50. Once the supply exceeds actual consumption, it's like an avalanche.
Most, if not all of the people I know bought amo and guns with cash and not some 15-20% CC. Not to sell, but for personal use. You have to be an idiot, or just some DUMB guy to think the way your thinking.
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  #37  
Old 03-21-2013, 12:20 PM
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VectorScalar VectorScalar is offline
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This 'whiners, GTFO' bit is wearing thin. I agree that people should be able to set/accept whatever prices they want and understand the basics of micro- and macro-economics. What is getting lost is the political aspect.

Since SandyHook I've managed to get three new gunowners (liberals like myself) interested in firearms; 2 have bought 22lr rifles for themselves. I have given the as much ammo as I feel I can spare, but they're frustrated that they can't find any at reasonable prices. In one case I think I may have lost out on the opportunity to convert a MAIG groupie-his wife was open to shooting at first, but after months if no ammo availability has turned to snark.

Knowing you had the right to try to flip ammo, guns, accessories etc for a profit will be small comfort when it all gets banned here in California. What's the best way to stop that? Grow the community and culture.

You don't do that by thumbing your nose at newbies and gloating at their lack of preparation......
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  #38  
Old 03-21-2013, 12:35 PM
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jonzer77 jonzer77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VectorScalar View Post
This 'whiners, GTFO' bit is wearing thin. I agree that people should be able to set/accept whatever prices they want and understand the basics of micro- and macro-economics. What is getting lost is the political aspect.

Since SandyHook I've managed to get three new gunowners (liberals like myself) interested in firearms; 2 have bought 22lr rifles for themselves. I have given the as much ammo as I feel I can spare, but they're frustrated that they can't find any at reasonable prices. In one case I think I may have lost out on the opportunity to convert a MAIG groupie-his wife was open to shooting at first, but after months if no ammo availability has turned to snark.

Knowing you had the right to try to flip ammo, guns, accessories etc for a profit will be small comfort when it all gets banned here in California. What's the best way to stop that? Grow the community and culture.

You don't do that by thumbing your nose at newbies and gloating at their lack of preparation......
That is a great time to point out that elections have consequences. These idiots they voted into office don't feel that they should be able to possess firearms and in doing that, have led to this current situation.
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That's because Excelsior threads are like toilet bowls. They're made for crapping in and occasionally pissing on the side of.
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  #39  
Old 03-21-2013, 12:51 PM
dezert lobo dezert lobo is offline
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Whiners Please Go Away!
They add spice and character to our forum
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  #40  
Old 03-21-2013, 1:33 PM
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NRai2001 NRai2001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gh429 View Post
Seems quite a few people missed Econ 101 in school
Econ 101 should meet psych 101.. Of course people have the right to charge whatever they want.. Heck people can do a lot of things. But many of us will remember the people/LGS that kicked us and sold out when times were ruff and those that had integrity and were fair during hard times. The fair people/LGS will continue to get my business and my recommendation to friends.
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