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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:12 PM
mievil mievil is offline
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Default AK47 sight picture

Just went out to a class with a Saiga with a rear end conversion. The rifle arrived in OEM form with a sheet saying decent groups at 100m from the factory so I let it go prior to arrival.

During the class, I found I had a different sight picture in the prone position compared to standing, kneeling, squating, etc. Immediately on presentation from any position, the most comfortable position that was seemingly correct was very different at the prone.

I know this is an operator issue. And I know I basically need to pick one, zero with it, and keep that same sight picture in any position I'm in.

My main issue is that while focusing on the front sight where it feels most natural with the least amount of brain conflict, the front sight appears higher than the rear blade. If I transition my focus to the rear to see if I can line it up, the front goes way below the rear. I know I'm not supposed to be focusing on the rear, but I was just trying out different alignments.

Based on the picture below, how is the sight picture supposed to look? (marvel at my mad paint skills)



When I am in any position besides prone, I can see the threaded portion of the rear post when I focus on the front sight. Just like the bottom picture.

When I am in prone, the threaded portion of the post is not visible when I focus on the front sight. Like the middle picture.

I tried googling AK sight picture, but everything that comes up is from video games.

The AR is WAAAAYYYYYY easier to get than this thing. HELP! What do you guys do with the front sight? In handgun you can line up the top of the front with the top of the rear, and go to town. I cannot get a clear enough peripheral image of the rear to make this happen on the Saiga.
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  #2  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:43 PM
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Focus should generally be on the front post but to be honest it does not matter as long as you do it the same every times. AK's are hard to focus with and thats why I put an AR rear sight on mine and I could not be happier. It can actually shoot with the same accuracy as my AR's.



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Old 03-05-2013, 1:22 PM
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Caseless Caseless is offline
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Use a six o'clock hold on the front sight with consistent cheek weld. Keep the tip somewhat level with the rear leaf. No need to spend a lot of time refining your sight picture with the AK iron sights. They are just submachine gun sights. Fast to pickup under low light conditions. Don't sweat it as long as POI is the same as POA within 200 meters.
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Old 03-05-2013, 1:26 PM
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Nice work around Bug Splat.. I think I've complimented you on that before . The other option is to get a TWS Dog Leg with a peep sight. I have one and once zeroed, I absolutely love it. I still do like the AK standard irons though and have retained them on a couple of my AKs. I set my sights with the middle sight picture you have posted above, like a handgun. I zero with the "pumpkin on the post" method with the rear leaf set at 100m at 25yrds and, once zeroed, set the rear leaf on N or whatever the battle sight symbol would be on your rear leaf sight. If a Saiga, it will be N, basically the lowest setting.
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Last edited by RobGR; 03-05-2013 at 1:29 PM..
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Old 03-05-2013, 1:32 PM
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It just sounds like you need more practice and experience. You seem to know what you are doing as a whole, so I would just spend more time with the rifle before you start add ghost ring sights etc etc.

Another thing you may want to try if the style of irons dont seem to be working is opening up the rear sight a little bit.
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Old 03-05-2013, 4:04 PM
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Any rifle will benefit from a RDS. An AK benefits more than most IMO.
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Old 03-05-2013, 4:35 PM
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^ Could not agree more.
The AK is a quick and dirty close quarters weapon intended to hit people sized targets, and this is really where reflex sights shine. However, it is not unreasonable to want to be proficient with it's good old fashioned irons as well.
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Old 03-05-2013, 6:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPlink View Post
^ Could not agree more.
The AK is a quick and dirty close quarters weapon intended to hit people sized targets, and this is really where reflex sights shine. However, it is not unreasonable to want to be proficient with it's good old fashioned irons as well.
Not unreasonable at all agreed. I also do go against the grain somewhat and believe a new shooter can benefit and progress quicker by learning with a RDS. Sight alignment, trigger control, and follow through are some of the most important skills to accurate shooting. So if you take out of the equation sight alignment I feel it gives new shooters more confidence by being able to focus on other aspects of shooting. Kind of like learning to drive on a stick sure you should know how to drive one but a new driver has a lot of other skills to hone to be a safe driver.

It is funny you can really tell between the western rifles vs soviet sight design what the intent was; AK machine gun (kill) AR rifleman (accurate).
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Old 03-05-2013, 8:02 PM
mievil mievil is offline
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They had us zero at 50m and they had me keep the rear sight at the 200m setting for the entire class after zero. Albeit my zero was pretty muffed.

I believe the lowest setting on the Saiga is the 100m mark, with the adjuster all the way to the rear looking like it's on the same plane as 300m?

Funny thing was I brought a red dot loaner (my regular cheapo red dot was on the AR as a backup rifle) but it was a Lucid and mounted on a claw mount, you end up with a chin weld instead of a cheek weld. A buddy was in the same class and running irons with his AR, so I decided to play with irons as well. Definitely a learning experience.

I do agree that I need more experience as a whole, and definitely more with this rifle. It seems easiest to get the front aligned like the middle pic as it just gives an additional reference to the alignment, where if I try to stick to the bottom picture, I am maybe guessing at where the tip of the post needs to sit?

I had gobs of fun with the rifle, I just need to get it dialed in. I hit the body cavity out to 200 with 2 just outside, and one missing hole, so i had a downed bad guy, but I'd prefer to keep them all a little more tight. Maybe I should just get a PSL instead? haha
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Old 03-06-2013, 1:03 AM
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Chin weld, cheek weld, whatever. Does not matter on a relfex sight
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:53 AM
mievil mievil is offline
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This is true, but I have much less meat and fat on my chin than on my cheek, so it starts to get a little tingly after a few rounds of firing off the chin. haha
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