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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #41  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
I think there may be something else going on.
Ya think?

Quote:
the NvSCA was notified by Las Vegas area firearms instructors
that Arizona had substantially altered their training requirements to standards
below that required by Nevada.
Interesting that the top cops can get together and change the law.
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  #42  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryff View Post
There are a handful of states that honor reciprocity only if you are a resident permit. For example, you can't carry in Florida on a Utah non-resident permit, but you could if you have a Utah resident permit (despite, ironically, that Florida issues non-resident permits).
FL is like for like reciprocity. Utah won't reconize the FL non-res, so FL won;t recognize the UT non-res. It is almost automatic. For about 2 month NM wouldn't honor FL while they reviewed requirements. So FL stopped recognizing NM within 48 hours. After NM said all ok, reciprocity was back on within 48 hours.
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  #43  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryff View Post
Yes, several states trust you more than California does. They are called non-resident permits. Florida and Utah are the most common, but Nevada, Arizona, and several others also offer them.

They allow you to carry in many states through reciprocity (meaning if State X honors State Z's LTC, then State Z will honor State X's). A California permit is only good in California, because our state does not honor anyone else's.

There are a handful of states that honor reciprocity only if you are a resident permit. For example, you can't carry in Florida on a Utah non-resident permit, but you could if you have a Utah resident permit (despite, ironically, that Florida issues non-resident permits).
California permit is good in about 15 states. Always check before trips.
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  #44  
Old 03-05-2013, 1:40 PM
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Kelly and Allan Main at www.armedandsafe.com are really great. They do the classes at Scheels in Sparks. I think it is 60 bucks.
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  #45  
Old 03-05-2013, 2:05 PM
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Originally Posted by tjcoker View Post
Frontsite has classes for the NV permit offered. I recall doing that a while back.

As for those various states that don't worry about my family and my safety... I will do my best to avoid travel and tourism there.
Front Sight does offer a CCW course, but they require that you take a 2 day or 4 day defensive handgun course immediately prior to taking the CCW course.

After completing Front Sight`s Concealed Weapon Permit course you will be prepared to apply for and receive the Florida, Nevada, and Utah Concealed Weapon Permits, thus allowing you to legally carry a concealed handgun in the following states: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, and Wyoming
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  #46  
Old 03-05-2013, 2:09 PM
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Well doesn't that just suck. I have CA and AZ.
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  #47  
Old 03-05-2013, 2:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SacTown View Post
Well doesn't that just suck. I have CA and AZ.
But doesn't AZ recognize CA?
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  #48  
Old 03-05-2013, 3:11 PM
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Originally Posted by winnre View Post
But doesn't AZ recognize CA?
Yes, but my AZ doesn't work for NV anymore. The main reason why I got it last summer.
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  #49  
Old 03-05-2013, 3:41 PM
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This so BLOWS! ......the only reason i got the AZ was for NV.....oh well not worth the BS and cost to get the NV..

unstrap at the border and stuff under seat......drive right on past Reno to the sticks......
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  #50  
Old 03-05-2013, 4:25 PM
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My AZ just came in the mail last wee. Man am I pissed.
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  #51  
Old 03-05-2013, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by zonzin View Post
Well that's just dandy.

Not sure I understand why NV does not accept CA,, we have live fire qual.
Per NV laws [NRS 202.3689], in order for NV to honor another state that state must have the following:
1. Training & issuance for CCW to be stricter or equal to that of NV.
2. Permit holder info in a database that can be accessed by NV LEOs.

CA has stricter CCW training/issuance than that of NV.
Therefore, CA meets the first requirement.

CA has a database that has permit holder info (AFS). But, that database is only accessable to CA LEOs and not to LEOs from other states.
Therefore, CA does not meet the second requirement.
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  #52  
Old 03-05-2013, 4:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
Nevada does not prohibit the concealed carry of loaded handguns in cars, still. Just can't carry into the stop 'n' puke.
As long as the handgun is not "concealed upon the person".
"Concealed upon the person" equates to on the person or in a portable container (purse, bag, case, pack, etc).

It is NV legal to have a loaded handgun, visible or concealed, in the vehicle's glove/utility compartment or on the dashboard or on a seat or under a seat or any other location in the vehicle as long as it is not concealed on you or in a portable container (exemption for being unloaded and in a locked container).
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  #53  
Old 03-05-2013, 4:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mrrsquared79 View Post
This makes no sense, when I was applying for my AZ CCW in June/July of 2011 and spoke with the lady at the DPS CCW division on the phone, I asked if my hunter safety certificate would work and she specifically stated that I must have live fire training. If my hunters safety cert did not have live fire training, it would not suffice.

I then completed live fire training with another CGN member here in Artesia to get a live fire training certificate to send in with my completed application, money order, and fingerprint cards.

I think there may be something else going on.
UT CCW permit does not require live firearm training/qualification. (This is the reason why NV dropped UT).

You can use your UT CCW permit to get an AZ CCW permit.
This is one of the ways you can get an AZ CCW permit without doing live fire training/qualification.
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  #54  
Old 03-05-2013, 4:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
Sounds right. Pre 1968 city laws grandfathered in at the time of state preemption.
As of 2011, the only things grandfathered are handgun registration and firearm discharge ordinances. [NRS 244.364]

No other ordinance/law was grandfathered in.

However, North Las Vegas is still enforcing their voided ordinances. They are currently be sued because of it.


NRS 244.364
1.  Except as otherwise provided by specific statute, the Legislature reserves for itself such rights and powers as are necessary to regulate the transfer, sale, purchase, possession, ownership, transportation, registration and licensing of firearms and ammunition in Nevada, and no county may infringe upon those rights and powers. As used in this subsection, “firearm” means any weapon from which a projectile is discharged by means of an explosive, spring, gas, air or other force.
2.  A board of county commissioners may proscribe by ordinance or regulation the unsafe discharge of firearms.
3.  If a board of county commissioners in a county whose population is 700,000 or more has required by ordinance or regulation adopted before June 13, 1989, the registration of a firearm capable of being concealed, the board of county commissioners shall amend such an ordinance or regulation to require:
(a) A period of at least 60 days of residency in the county before registration of such a firearm is required.
(b) A period of at least 72 hours for the registration of a pistol by a resident of the county upon transfer of title to the pistol to the resident by purchase, gift or any other transfer.
4.  Except as otherwise provided in subsection 1, as used in this section:
(a) “Firearm” means any device designed to be used as a weapon from which a projectile may be expelled through the barrel by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion.
(b) “Firearm capable of being concealed” includes all firearms having a barrel less than 12 inches in length.
(c) “Pistol” means a firearm capable of being concealed that is intended to be aimed and fired with one hand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Gunner View Post
If you carry in Vegas, look it up before you go. They are always tweaking the how and where. And if I remember right, if you are in town over 72 hours you must report your presence and length of stay to the Sheriff.
Incorrect.

Non-residents of Clark County do not have to not notify and are not required to register any handguns, unless they stay in Clark County more than 60 days. [NRS 244.364]
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  #55  
Old 03-05-2013, 4:53 PM
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Darn it! On to the next plan...
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  #56  
Old 03-05-2013, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by CalBear View Post
It was pretty obvious to me from the moment NV started accepting AZ permits that they would eventually wise up to the differences between AZ's permitting policies and their law. I'm sort of surprised it took this long.
My bet is has nothing to do with this ^^^. It all about $$. Local municipalities now can collect a bunch of cash for permitting.



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  #57  
Old 03-05-2013, 5:54 PM
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Does anybody know if NV. has a Military exemption (DD214) ??
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  #58  
Old 03-05-2013, 6:10 PM
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Does anybody know if NV. has a Military exemption (DD214) ??
There is no exemption for the required NV CCW training, which needs to take place in NV and you need to turn in the application in person in the county you did the training in.
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  #59  
Old 03-05-2013, 6:31 PM
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We offer the Nevada CCW training class in Las Vegas, NV and for our previous students it is offered at a discount.
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  #60  
Old 03-05-2013, 6:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zonzin View Post
Well that's just dandy.

Not sure I understand why NV does not accept CA,, we have live fire qual.



.
NV law require 2 things for a state to get reciprocity.
1. CCW requirements as strict as or stricter than NV.
2. An electronic database of CCW holders that is accessible to Nevada cops.

CA does not have a database that other states LEOs can access.
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Old 03-05-2013, 6:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
Ya think?



Interesting that the top cops can get together and change the law.
No change in the law at all.

They are required by law to review the other states CCW programs to ensure they meet or exceed NV requirements.
AZ changed thier rules between the last review and this one.
NV did what they are required to do by their own laws.
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  #62  
Old 03-05-2013, 6:48 PM
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Well that sucks... I just paid extra to qualify for AZ
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  #63  
Old 03-05-2013, 6:49 PM
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So is it an 8 hour class? What's the deal? Can someone describe a step by step process for NV? What portion is done at the class and what portion is done at the police station? Is picture taking done at the police station or the class? Sucks to have to shell out all this money. Most of us will pretty much need the AZ,UT,FL, and NV permits to have us covered for the most part.
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  #64  
Old 03-05-2013, 7:14 PM
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Originally Posted by safewaysecurity View Post
So is it an 8 hour class? What's the deal? Can someone describe a step by step process for NV? What portion is done at the class and what portion is done at the police station? Is picture taking done at the police station or the class? Sucks to have to shell out all this money. Most of us will pretty much need the AZ,UT,FL, and NV permits to have us covered for the most part.
Yes. It is an 8 hour class that comprises of class room instructions and live fire qualifications.

Plan two days.
First day to do the training. (normally by the time you are done, you do not have enough time to get to where you need to turn in your application before it closes for the day)
Second day to turn in the application, pay fees, get live-scanned and photographed. (only open during the weekday)

From personal experience...
If there is no wait or short lines, it can take 30-45 mins for the second day. If there are long lines, you may have to wait 1-3 hours before the 30-45 min processing time.
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Last edited by Quiet; 03-05-2013 at 7:26 PM..
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  #65  
Old 03-05-2013, 8:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zonzin View Post
Well that's just dandy.

Not sure I understand why NV does not accept CA,, we have live fire qual.



.
To augment what Quiet and Decoligny said:

California does not have an electronic database that Nevada cops can access to verify the CA LTC is real.

California meets the requirement in 1. (a) but not the requirement in 1. (b).

Arizona meets the requirement in 1. (b) but not the requirement in 1. (a).


NRS 202.3689  Department to prepare list of states that meet certain requirements concerning permits; Department to provide copy of list to law enforcement agencies in this State; Department to make list available to public.
1.  On or before July 1 of each year, the Department shall:
(a) Examine the requirements for the issuance of a permit to carry a concealed firearm in each state and determine whether the requirements of each state are substantially similar to or more stringent than the requirements set forth in NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive.
(b) Determine whether each state has an electronic database which identifies each individual who possesses a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm issued by that state and which a law enforcement officer in this State may access at all times through a national law enforcement telecommunications system.
(c) Prepare a list of states that meet the requirements of paragraphs (a) and (b). A state must not be included in the list unless the Nevada Sheriffs’ and Chiefs’ Association agrees with the Department that the state should be included in the list.
(d) Provide a copy of the list prepared pursuant to paragraph (c) to each law enforcement agency in this State.
2.  The Department shall, upon request, make the list prepared pursuant to subsection 1 available to the public.
(Added to NRS by 2007, 3150)

Here's the other thread:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=717524
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  #66  
Old 03-05-2013, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LCU1670 View Post
California permit is good in about 15 states. Always check before trips.
I was also informed of the same thing.
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  #67  
Old 03-06-2013, 2:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
In regards to NV dropping AZ...

Basically why it happened:
1. When NV approved AZ, they did so after reviewing AZ's 2010 CCW permit issuance policy (which required live fire qualifications).
2. When AZ went constitutional carry, it changed AZ's CCW permit issuance policy (so now you can get one without needing to do live fire qualifications).
3. NV laws require states they honor to have equal or stricter standards then NV and NV requires live fire qualifications.
4. Early this year, some Las Vegas area firearm trainers informed NV DPS and NVSCA that AZ's CCW permit issuance policy had changed to be less than NV's standard. This caused NVSCA to remove AZ from the list of states that NV honors.

It is speculated that certain Las Vegas area firearm trainers tattled about the AZ changes due to loss of revenue from NV CCW training.
First, great post Quiet!

I realized that sooner or later Nevada was going to drop Arizona once AZ started accepting Utah permits as "proof of training" and Utah does not require live fire qualification for a permit. I do know several people even questioned AZ DPS about this apparent loophole that circumvented the AZ requirement for live fire qualification, but I guess AZ DPS did not really care. Now I wonder if the NVSCA would reinstate AZ if they stopped accepting Utah permits as "proof of training."

From what I understand in regards to the AZ Constitutional Carry law, the permit process itself was not changed, however what was accepted as "proof of training" was expanded. Does anyone know if in fact live fire qualification was dropped by AZ as a requirement or is the Utah permit just a loophole? If live fire was dropped by AZ, Nevada recognition of AZ permits is DONE!
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Old 03-06-2013, 2:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
NV dropped UT and FL in 2009

UT was dropped because they do not require live fire qualification, which is needed to meet NV's standards.
This was such a circus!! The NVSCA even admitted that they did not realize Utah had no live fire requirements for a permit, thus they had approved Utah permits for recognition by mistake!

Then Florida simply expanded the period their permits were valid, from five to seven years. This was done to ease the crush of new and renewal applicants in FL and to provide a better value for permit holders as FL did not increase fees for the new seven year permit. However a seven year permit was just too radical for the NVSCA and they dropped Florida like a hot potato!
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  #69  
Old 03-06-2013, 2:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Here's a slight ray of hope in all this gloom...

NV SB137 is NV's constitutional carry bill and it is currently in the NV Senate's Judiciary Committee.
So is there even a legitimate chance that this could become Nevada law? If SB137 is deemed too "radical" is there any potential to pass an alternative Bill such as one providing for "universal recognition" of all other state permits like fourteen other states have already done?
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Old 03-06-2013, 3:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeiseGuy View Post
What would you suggest as the easiest way to get Nevada certified now?
Don't forget that for a Nevada Concealed Firearms Permit, you must take the CFP class/training in Nevada!! And you must apply for the CFP in the county where you took the class/training!!

"As of May 8, 2002, the Nevada Sheriffs' and Chiefs' Association requires that CFP training must take place in the State of Nevada."
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Old 03-06-2013, 3:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Gunner View Post
FL is like for like reciprocity. Utah won't reconize the FL non-res, so FL won;t recognize the UT non-res. It is almost automatic. For about 2 month NM wouldn't honor FL while they reviewed requirements. So FL stopped recognizing NM within 48 hours. After NM said all ok, reciprocity was back on within 48 hours.
WRONG!

Utah has "universal recognition" of ALL other valid permits, including ALL non-resident permits!! LINK And Florida is one of six states that DO NOT recognize any non-resident permits, even from states they have formal reciprocity with, like Washington. Now Florida does have a reciprocity statute and will by law recipricate with any other state that recognizes the Florida permit. Thus the only states that Florida does not honor permits from, are those states that will not honor a Florida permit, however if they did, Florida would recipricate per statute.

The six states that DO NOT recognize non-resident permits are:

Colorado
Florida
Maine
Michigan
New Hamphsire
South Carolina
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Old 03-06-2013, 3:32 AM
Baja Daze Baja Daze is offline
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California permit is good in about 15 states. Always check before trips.
Correct, that would be in the fourteen states that have "universal recognition" of all valid permits, plus Vermont that is pure Constitutional Carry and does not require nor issue permits.
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Old 03-06-2013, 3:42 AM
Baja Daze Baja Daze is offline
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Disclaimer, I have never been there and this is NOT an endorsement. However since their Nevada CFP class is FREE other than an ammo purchase, I am going to post this here since cash is really tight for many Americans.

The Gun Store on Tropicana (Southeast Vegas) offers the CFP class FREE every Monday, Wednesdy, Saturday & Sunday.
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Old 03-06-2013, 5:17 AM
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I actually took my first NV ccw course their years ago. Now I just do front sight since its free and more complete.
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  #75  
Old 03-06-2013, 6:42 AM
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This was such a circus!! The NVSCA even admitted that they did not realize Utah had no live fire requirements for a permit, thus they had approved Utah permits for recognition by mistake!

Then Florida simply expanded the period their permits were valid, from five to seven years. This was done to ease the crush of new and renewal applicants in FL and to provide a better value for permit holders as FL did not increase fees for the new seven year permit. However a seven year permit was just too radical for the NVSCA and they dropped Florida like a hot potato!
I am getting an image of a room cluttered with cowboy hats, cigar smoke, and the sweet waft of bourbon.
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Old 03-06-2013, 9:57 AM
desertexplore desertexplore is offline
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Tagged- I too am a AZ holder.
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  #77  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:37 AM
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Great! Spent the $60 for the application fee, and another $20 for fingerprinting services three months ago for nothing. And tomorrow I'll be in Reno for a seminar. I wish Nevada would have done it's homework. Screw it, I'll carry for the seminar and claim ignorance if I get caught -not usually my attitude, but this is horse sh&t!
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:40 AM
desertexplore desertexplore is offline
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Can AZ just fix their issues and then NV will then recognize.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:41 AM
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So is there even a legitimate chance that this could become Nevada law? If SB137 is deemed too "radical" is there any potential to pass an alternative Bill such as one providing for "universal recognition" of all other state permits like fourteen other states have already done?
Starting around 2007, there has been a push to reform certain aspects of NV's CCW laws.

They first pushed through the change to make NV honor other state's CCW permits. Those resistant to this allowed it to pass in 2007 with certain restrictions (database access + training equal or greater than NV).

They also pushed to change the live fire qualifications so that you no longer had to qualify with every handgun you wanted to carry. There was resistance to this as well. But, they were able to get parts of it changed in 2009 (created revolver category) and 2011 (created semi-auto firearm & revolver categories). The bill to change it again (no categories, qualify with a handgun and can carry any type of handgun) was introduced this year and is half-way through the legislature (passed the NV Senate, currently in the NV Assembly's Judiciary Committee).

Starting in 2011, they also started pushing constitutional carry and campus carry. Both those bills died in the NV Assembly's Judiciary Committee due to the anti-gun committee chairman refusing to let those bills come up for a vote. Fortunately, that anti-gun committee chairman is no longer there and both those bills have been resubmitted this year.

AFAIK...
It appears the current primary focus is to keep reforming the live fire qualification and to get campus carry passed. The powers that be have stated once they get those, all focus would then be on constitutional carry (maybe the 2015 legislative session).



Side note:
The NV legislature is part-time. Meaning they only meet every two years to make/pass new laws and are only paid when they are in session.
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Last edited by Quiet; 03-07-2013 at 2:15 AM.. Reason: correction
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Old 03-06-2013, 3:05 PM
LoadedM333 LoadedM333 is offline
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Wow, this certainly sucks now I need to get this done on my next trip.
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