Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Curio & Relic/Black Powder
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-03-2013, 12:44 AM
wheels52 wheels52 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Petaluma
Posts: 11
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default Parts for WCF 32 Model 1885

I'm looking for a firing pin for a Winchester Model 1885 WCF 32. With a little cleaning and a firing pin It should be a great shooter.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-03-2013, 1:10 AM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 4,036
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

HiWall or LoWall? Serial number for DOM?
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=410211
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-03-2013, 3:35 PM
Mike A Mike A is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seal Beach (90740) Just south of Long Beach, in Orange County.
Posts: 1,136
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Gun Parts Corp used to have firing pins. If not, try C.Sharps Arms in Big Timber MT. Any center fire 1885 firing pin should work; I don't think there is any difference between the lowall and hiwall pins. There are several other manufacturers of 'Wall clones in the US, at least one in Idaho (Meacham Arms) and there used to be one in Michigan (Ballard Arms?). Don't think the pins from the foriegn "copies" (they are more like "adaptations"....) will work. Including the "Blowning" and "Winchester" 1885s made by Miroku.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-03-2013, 6:37 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 4,036
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

There's two different pin diameters for smokeless and BP, and only vintage Winchester pins, or copies fit the Winchesters. The repros and and new models use a totally different rebound spring set up.
Numrich doesn't carry them, and everyone else that did, is out of stock or no longer offer them.
Bob at www.gun-parts.com still lists them at $45. There's a guy that's always at the spring Big Reno Show that has them for $30 last time I checked, but he doesn't have a website.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-03-2013, 11:57 PM
wheels52 wheels52 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Petaluma
Posts: 11
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

@ trap55, I believe it's a low wall, which I just googled, as I'm really new to these rifles. The serial #is 89502, what is DOM?
Thanks for the info so far, I'm looking forward to researching and getting it firing. I'll try and post some pic's, the finish is in bad shape, but I think it's good mechanically. I'm going to soak it in breakfree and wipe it down to start with. Any other tips are welcomed.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-04-2013, 12:37 AM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 4,036
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Made early in 1901, with 3,286 made that year.
Post some pics! Let's see your broken firing pin too, it may be fixable. If the pin is gone, try to measure the firing pin hole, I have the two sizes written down here somewhere. I think they are .072, and .120 for BP.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-04-2013, 8:48 AM
Mike A Mike A is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seal Beach (90740) Just south of Long Beach, in Orange County.
Posts: 1,136
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Probably a lowall since most .32-20s were. But not all--I had a hiwall with a 30" #3 barrel in .32WCF once. Bought it on the Lac du Flambeau reservation in Wisconsin in the early 1970s.

Yours "should" be a coiled mainspring model with a small diameter firing pin, since it is past the time the action was changed from flat to coiled mainspring, and after the high velocity .32-20 round was developed by Win for the 1892.

But with 'walls, you never know until you know. Because of parts cleanups and workers finding old, unused parts in odd corners of the factory, you can find 'walls with just about ANY combination of old and new features.

Pulling the forend will tell you if it has a coiled or flat mainspring. The flat mainspring is under the barrel inside the forend. If it isn't there, you have the later coiled mainspring variation.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-05-2013, 9:15 PM
wheels52 wheels52 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Petaluma
Posts: 11
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Here's some pics of the model 1885.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1358.jpg (47.2 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1359.jpg (46.4 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1362.jpg (55.9 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1364.jpg (41.4 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1368.jpg (52.1 KB, 25 views)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-05-2013, 9:20 PM
wheels52 wheels52 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Petaluma
Posts: 11
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

One more pic with two questions. What's missing on the left of the serial # When I took it apart there's no screw hole in the wood and can you get a replacement front site? Also what do the 2 stamped in the wood mean?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1369.jpg (63.4 KB, 25 views)

Last edited by wheels52; 03-05-2013 at 9:22 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-06-2013, 7:05 AM
Mike A Mike A is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seal Beach (90740) Just south of Long Beach, in Orange County.
Posts: 1,136
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

I'll need to get a breakdown pic to tell you what screw is missing in the tang--can't get to my books for a while, will get back. I got replacement screws for mine at a company in Washington State; I'll remember the name presently.

I'd say any Marbles or Lyman dovetail bead front sight would be authentic enough. A "real" Winchester sight wouldn't be very different, if you could find one. Except the price! Many of them came from the factory with Marbles sights (at a slight extra cost).

The "2" on the forend wood tells the boys in the stocking room that the forend was made to mate up with a #2 weight barrel, which was a special order (not THAT special, tho) on a lowall. Standard was #1, the lightest barrel. Yours should have a faint number 2 stamped on the barrel flat just in front of the ebony wedge on the lower forend tip.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:32 AM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 4,036
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

The missing screw holds the knock off spring, is the spring still in there?
Can you post a close up of the front and rear sights?
It looks like your front sight is an original Rocky Mountain front sight?
Let's see what's missing, and I'll give you a list of places to track it down.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-06-2013, 1:39 PM
Mike A Mike A is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seal Beach (90740) Just south of Long Beach, in Orange County.
Posts: 1,136
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

If the knock off spring screw is missing, the nut that holds it place may also be missing. Little flat square job threaded for the screw. Not hard to make if you have the screw and a friend with a set of taps.

I bought spare screws for my lowall "parts gun" from Cedar Creek Screw and Machine in Washington State. What they sent, worked! Hope they're still around.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-06-2013, 7:53 PM
wheels52 wheels52 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Petaluma
Posts: 11
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Thanx you guys, this is very helpful. I've added the pic's of the sights. From your descriptions, I can tell it's a screw and nut that are missing, the spring was still inside. Still not clear on how to measure for the firing pin. Is it the small hole where the pin goes through to strike the cartridge? Could I measure it with a drill bit? I'll try calling cedar creek tomorrow.

I found this info on Leeroysramblings.com for an 1885.
2585-B Firing Pin, Black Powder (.122 dia tip)
2585-S Firing Pin, Smokless Powder (.074 dia tip)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1371.jpg (92.7 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1372.jpg (80.0 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1374.jpg (79.9 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1375.jpg (91.0 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1376.jpg (89.6 KB, 14 views)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-06-2013, 8:03 PM
wheels52 wheels52 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Petaluma
Posts: 11
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Two more pics, of the missing firing pin. Would a pic of the other side help.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1379.jpg (85.5 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1383.jpg (80.2 KB, 15 views)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-06-2013, 9:04 PM
Mike A Mike A is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seal Beach (90740) Just south of Long Beach, in Orange County.
Posts: 1,136
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Yeah, the key dimension is the hole on the other side where the pin hits the primer. So a pic of the front of the breechblock would help.

Looks to me like the front sight is intact and original. Rear sight is busted and not complete. I'll look up what was original issue, and post it once I find out. Somebody probably makes a repro.

I would go over this gun with penetrating oil like Kroil and bronze wool, the finest grade you can get (I get mine from the local True Value hardware store). A good rubdown with wiping off with soft cloth will get all the surface crud and rust off without removing any remaining blue or case color. Then you can read any faint markings and see what you have, in detail.

What's the bore like?



OT:Can a fella still start a good fight in your town by calling it "Chickaluma"? Worked great in the 1950s! My dentist can vouch for that.....
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:12 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 4,036
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

That front sight blade is most likely German Silver, clean that up so it's silver again. The edge of the blade needs to be trued flat and square. 600grt wet or dry wrapped tight on a hard block will do that. Go slow.
Finding an original rear sight with the H cut leaf instead of the U notch could be a pain. This is the cheapest repro I could find that goes with the front sight.
http://homesteadparts.com/shopcart/pid_1522.htm
Leave it in a glass of Coke over night, rinse, dry, oil, and the patina will match the rest of the gun.
Unless the threads are stripped, the knock off spring base is what the screw threads into. If it's stripped, find a machine screw that fits the tang and hole, and put a nut on it. Easier than finding a screw and new spring.
Call Jim at http://www.tapaderaswinchesters.com/partslist.html for screws, or bring the tang, spring and breech block to the Reno show next month, and have him dig out the screw and see if he has a firing pin.

Mike, do you still have your LoWall?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-07-2013, 1:05 PM
Mike A Mike A is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seal Beach (90740) Just south of Long Beach, in Orange County.
Posts: 1,136
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Yeah, Trap, I still have my "resurrected" lowall; it's a .25-20WCF (not .25-20 "Single Shot"). Receiver and stock are off an 3rd Model Winder Musket; rest of it is mixed parts from several guns. Looks pretty good, shoots fine, but just a "shooter."
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-07-2013, 5:46 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 4,036
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike A View Post
Yeah, Trap, I still have my "resurrected" lowall; it's a .25-20WCF (not .25-20 "Single Shot"). Receiver and stock are off an 3rd Model Winder Musket; rest of it is mixed parts from several guns. Looks pretty good, shoots fine, but just a "shooter."
My HiWall is a shooter too. The original 38-55 bbl was pulled and replaced with a .32/40 bbl, buttstock checkered, action blued, and the bbl D&T'ed for scope mounts. Picked up an old Wollensack scope cheap, and mounted it.

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-08-2013, 7:13 AM
Mike A Mike A is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seal Beach (90740) Just south of Long Beach, in Orange County.
Posts: 1,136
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Very nice; classic job! .32-40 is a great all round ctg., too. Back in the day they used it for everything from indoor plinking to deer.

I have a made-up hiwall shooter like that but it's in .30-40 (its original caliber but a new barrel). Also have an original hiwall .38-40 with a special order #1 barrel and a C.Sharps hiwall replica in .44-40, which I shoot a lot.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-08-2013, 10:06 AM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 4,036
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Didn't happen without pics.
I really like this .32/40 cartridge. Had a friend cast me 800 165grn FN bullets from an original Winchester mold I picked up. Loaded with TrailBoss, it's like shooting a .22.
Have I dated your Winchesters for you yet?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-09-2013, 7:04 AM
Mike A Mike A is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seal Beach (90740) Just south of Long Beach, in Orange County.
Posts: 1,136
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Trap, I dated them from Campbell's book "The Winchester Single Shot."
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-09-2013, 10:10 AM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 4,036
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Cambell's books were published back in '96, before Bert had the polishing room records, so he probably used the Madis numbers. PM me or post them here and I'll see if the dates are correct.
Bert should be about ready to publish his comprehensive book on the Winchester 1885. It will be hardbound with color photos. A "small" sample of his collection:

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-24-2013, 12:28 AM
wheels52 wheels52 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Petaluma
Posts: 11
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Thanks for all the help, I was able to source the parts I needed from Ballard. They were very helpful, even gave some advice on fitting the firing pin. They even had the knock off bolt and nut.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-24-2013, 9:15 AM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 4,036
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

wheels, update us on the parts fit, especially the firing pin. I've seen complaints about fit, but it's all second hand info.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 9:35 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.