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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 03-05-2013, 1:20 AM
DBLee DBLee is offline
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Originally Posted by robertkjjj View Post
Phil Ossiferz Stone wrote a marvelous post with many excellent points. As a conservative gun owner who is married to a fairly liberal woman who barely tolerates guns(and she has many liberal relatives who hate them), I am very familiar with the liberal reactions to gun owners protestations re the 2nd Amendment. Most liberals don't seem to give a rat's a** about our "rights". Sadly, most people in general don't seem to care about any type of infringement until such infringement affects them personally. Too many are living in a bubble these days, unwilling to get alarmed or stressed out until they feel some heat themselves.

As an aside, I am not new to guns or the NRA(collecting for 40 years), but I am new to this forum and Calguns. I also have some time on my hands, so if anyone here can point me in the right direction, I'd be happy to help the cause and try to beat back as many of these absurd new proposed laws as possible. Good Day, Robert (San Diego area)
Best thing you can do is write your representatives all at once from this easy link:

http://www.ruger.com/micros/advocacy/
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  #42  
Old 03-05-2013, 6:46 AM
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While I agree that we all need to write our reps in D.C.... remember that they dont read them, a minimum wage aide does!

And, I honestly believe DiFi wont give a damn what we, or anybody says. Here is the form letter response I received from her (office):




Dear Mr. xxxxxx:

Thank you for contacting me to share your opposition to assault weapons legislation. I respect your opinion on this important issue and welcome the opportunity to provide my point of view.

Mass shootings are a serious problem in our country, and I have watched this problem get worse and worse over the 40 years I have been in public life. From the 1966 shooting rampage at the University of Texas that killed 14 people and wounded 32 others, to the Newtown massacre that killed 20 children and 6 school teachers and faculty, I have seen more and more of these killings. I have had families tell me that they no longer feel safe in a mall, in a movie theater, in their business, and in other public places, because these deadly weapons are so readily available. These assault weapons too often fall into the hands of grievance killers, juveniles, gangs, and the deranged.

I recognize that the Second Amendment provides an individual right to bear arms, but I do not believe that right is unlimited or that it precludes taking action to prevent mass shootings. Indeed, in the same Supreme Court decision that recognized the individual right to bear arms, District of Columbia v. Heller, the Court also held that this right, like other constitutional rights, is not unlimited. That is why assault weapons bans have consistently been upheld in the courts, both before and after the Heller decision. I believe regulation of these weapons is appropriate.

Once again, thank you for your letter. Although we may disagree, I appreciate hearing from you and will be mindful of your thoughts as the debate on this issue continues. If you have any additional comments or questions, please do not hesitate to contact my Washington, D.C. office at (202) 224-3841.

Sincerely yours,


Dianne Feinstein
United States Senator
================================================== ========

Here is my response back to her:

Senator Feinstein:

With all due respect, I believe your logic is terribly flawed. Guns kill people just like cars kill people. Or, as a fork is responsible for obesity! It is the user who kills, not the device used! Using your reasoning; why not outlaw vehicles because drunk drivers take thousands of innocent lives annually? Or, let’s make fattening food illegal because diabetes and obesity kill millions each year.

As a law-abiding gun owner I have no issue with stricter laws governing the legal purchase and ownership of guns. Nor do I have any problems with stricter background checks or psychological medical checks and reporting. I do have an issue with a gun being blamed for any killing; I also have an issue with any gun being referred to as an “assault weapon”. Any currently legal handgun can be used to assault someone. In fact a handgun is much easier to conceal than any rifle. Another danger in enacting laws that ban or illegalize certain features of firearms is that you will make millions of law-abiding Americans at risk of being “criminals” simply because they own such firearms.

Crime statistics will confirm that it is “easily concealed” handguns that are used in the overwhelming majority of crimes and murders in this nation, not so called “assault weapons”. I agree that incidents such as the Colorado and Connecticut shootings are terrible tragedies, but it isn’t the weapons fault! Both individuals in these recent mass shootings had a history of mental issues which should have prohibited them from gaining access to any firearm!

In answer to the tragedy of 9/11, our federal government created the Air Marshals program to protect the approximately 200-300 passengers per airline flight. Why won’t you look to fashion a similar Marshal program at our nation’s schools, to protect the thousands at each school? Are 200-300 air travelers more valuable than our nations school children?

In closing, our state and federal governments needs to worry about one thing and ONE THING ONLY right now: getting this economic mess in America fixed! Stop trying to protect us from every possible threat! Instead save us from the poverty and economic disaster that all of YOU politicians created! Please note too… that poverty also kills!


Respectfully,

xxxxxx x xxxxxxx
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  #43  
Old 03-05-2013, 3:12 PM
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IF they pass any of this ... STAND AND FIGHT ... I will not tolerate Idiots making laws that I know are wrong .. this is what liberals do .. screw us over ... now they want our guns so they can continue to screw us with no worries ... Not on my watch .. they can go to hell ! Lets get some Re-Calls going on everyone that endorses or signs any anti gun legislation ...... This needs to happen nation wide ...screw politicians its there will ... not the overwhelming majority of the American people ....

I got the same exact letter from the *****'s office , they dont care what we want ...If you haven't figured that out yet I dont know what to tell you ....They think they know whats best for us but in reality they want what they want .... One thing I do know is I want these Liberals to burn in HELL for what they are doing to this country .... They completely deserve it ... look at the mess they have created in this once great country ...we are a laughing stock to the rest of the world .... all thanks to Liberal Idiots such as Finestien , Pelosi (one of the dumbest people Ive ever seen open their mouth ) and of coarse I cant leave out the biggest Idiot of them all ... the King (Obama) .....

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  #44  
Old 03-05-2013, 3:47 PM
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Default In regards to SB-396

I thought CA already had a 10 round magazine limit for any gun type?
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  #45  
Old 03-05-2013, 3:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Brien View Post
I thought CA already had a 10 round magazine limit for any gun type?
No, just fixed mags and the purchase of new mags.

This bill makes the possession of 10 round mags illegal, regardless of when you acquired the mags, and it makes things like 10/30 mags illegal because it makes it illegal for the physical size of the mag to be larger than the actual capacity. Interesting the 10/40 factory mags for the M&P 15-22 would be illegal under this bill.

Many retired LEO's, gun owners, and probably a good number of Calgun members will be affected if this passes.
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  #46  
Old 03-05-2013, 4:02 PM
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Ok, just so I understand. A fixed mag is like the one in an AR-15 with a Bullet button?
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  #47  
Old 03-05-2013, 4:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Brien View Post
Ok, just so I understand. A fixed mag is like the one in an AR-15 with a Bullet button?
Correct, in those we are already limited to a 10 round mag. Often we see a 10/20 or 10/30 mag which is a 20 or 30 round body, permanently modified to only be a 10 round mag. Those type of 10 round mags will be illegal under this bill.

In a mini-14 without any features, if you had a 30 round mag prior to Jan 1, 2000, it is currently legal to continue using that mag. Those mags will be illegal under this bill.
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  #48  
Old 03-05-2013, 7:06 PM
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Keep in mind Di-fi may not read your letters, but your local congressman is keeping track of all the letters that are either pro or FOR.

Just a reminder for those that may not be completely clear on it, you have your State Assembly (which in my mind is THE most important body of politicians to reach) which determines the laws of the STATE.

Then you have your federal Congressmen and Senators in DC which determine on a federal level what policy will be. Diane Feinstein and her ilk fall within this category. They can be safely assumed to be beyond reason. Luckily, we have a republican majority in congress, and while it is still important to hold them accountable--the real battle is in California.

That said, you need to click the link above and make sure you let your local representatives that go to Sacramento know that you will not stand for any further gun legislation, and that you will do everything in your power to ensure that you are properly represented when the next election rolls around. They are listening, do your part.
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  #49  
Old 03-05-2013, 9:35 PM
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It's easy to understand that a lot of us feel that letters, emails, and calls are a waste of time. In the past we've had well publicised drives to contact our Representative, and in the end some asinine bill passed anyway, it's as if all our communications were tossed into the garbage can without even being counted.

Please don't give up that easily!

We're the underdogs in this state, we're going to suffer losses in Sacramento, but the fact is that the legislators do know that we exist, for every bill that passes there are bills that get killed before making to the floor, get voted down on the floor, or is vetoed. There's no way to know how many of those bills would have become law but for our protests, however it's safe to say that had we not spoken up - some of them would be on the books today.

California gun owners are fortunate have 2 competent full time lobbyists fighting for our rights in Sacramento, Ed Worley, State Legislative Liaison for the NRA, and Mr. Tom Pedersen, Legislative Liaison for the CRPA (by the way - both fighters are supported by CRPA and NRA members - so if you're not a member - join). They have both stated that legislators and their staffs have reported that in the past capital phones have been ringing off the hooks because of our calls - they notice and pay attention! Not all of them, not all the time, but then it's childish to expect the world to bend to our every protest and request - even we are 100% justified.

It takes very little energy to contact your representatives, but there is upside potential to making that call or sending that email. Don't give up the fight even when it seems like the odds are against you, even when it seems like no one is listening. Too much is at stake to be lazy and just roll over.
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  #50  
Old 03-05-2013, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by pdq_wizzard View Post
I will fight this, but if any of this passes I'm out of this F'ed up state. then I will fight from a free state.
"Fighting" from a free state is like standing on the outside of a boxing ring. The fight for our rights will not be an easy fight, there is no easy fight. But again I understand that some people would rather be in the area of safety then in the lions den.
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  #51  
Old 03-06-2013, 9:33 AM
Phil Ossiferz Stone Phil Ossiferz Stone is offline
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/soapbox mode on

We need to organize a good old-fashioned sit in on the steps of the State Capitol, with us carrying cardboard cutouts of weapons we actually own. The Million Rifle March. And then we camp out front in pup tents until Moonbeam comes out and has a word with us on the topic, or the cops haul us away and clog their jails so full they don't have room for the *real* criminals. And then we pay our fines and come back every few months and do it again and again and again. Organized, scheduled, polite 'protests' in some park somewhere is just political masturbation. It merely makes us feel good. It is a parody of the real thing. No one sees, no one cares.

You need to get in the public's face. You need to make Big Government physically uncomfortable. You need to attract the media. Then you hand out pamphlets inviting people to a free public shooting class at a local target range, with maybe a BBQ picnic and some Two Buck Chuck afterwards. You volunteer your time to be there and you provide the ammo and the training. Gently urge them to buy their own neat fun gun that they liked shooting, so that they too now have something to lose. This is how hippies used to get people physically involved in the civil rights movement back when -- by making it fun.

Being polite and indignant has its limits, guys. You stage sit ins, you stage pickets, you hand out literature, you woo people into joining, you write your representatives, you sue people. The OWS retards do only the first; we by and large only do the last two. The only successful movements in our history did all of the above, repeatedly, continuously, all the time. And they didn't stop until they got what they wanted. My parents were part of that, so I know whereof I speak. Yes, I know we have jobs and families and stuff, and repeated violations might impact our ability to legally own guns. That will have to be looked into. (We do have some good legal counsel we can ask about that. How many times can you be hauled off in cuffs, albeit peacefully and with a smile on your face, before you're considered some kind of threat to public safety?). Yes, there is good reason why public protest -- particularly the unscheduled in-your-face kind -- is the provenance of the young and single, and maybe a lot of us shrink from the idea.

But I'm telling you, until we attack our enemies using the entire spectrum of tools at our disposal, we're crippled. We need to stop acting like just another special interest group -- one burdened with guns and Bibles, because those engender fright and a curled lip amongst a large segment of our population. This is the civil rights battle of our era. We need to make that clear to John Q. Public, even if we have to be rude.

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  #52  
Old 03-06-2013, 8:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Brien View Post
Ok, just so I understand. A fixed mag is like the one in an AR-15 with a Bullet button?
But they also want to ban bullet buttons!
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  #53  
Old 03-07-2013, 4:50 AM
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How can we link these constitutional infringements of 2a to other civil rights? Maybe everyone is not pro 2A like us. If we can relate that to an Ammendment that the average liberal in this state holds near and dear, perhaps others might understand what is at risk and join the fight. Once they infringe on one, why would they stop there? For example, permit to buy ammunition. When do you need a permit to buy gas, paint, fertilizer, kitchen knives? Anything that could be lumped into the public safety domain. Million dollar liability insurance for guns. Cars cause cause more fatalities than guns so when would they require million dollar policies for autos, boats, motorcycles. How about limiting autos that exceed the state speed limit? Internet licensing fee for buying on line? I'm sure one of our super smart lawyers could come up with numerous examples of how one ammendment violation could easily be interpreted to violate another.

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  #54  
Old 03-07-2013, 5:14 AM
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Looks good. Will print and distribute
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  #55  
Old 03-07-2013, 11:54 AM
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Keep up the good work. I donated and also to NRA and write emails to all government reps etc.

Being passive resolves nothing.

Thanks to you all's active work.
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  #56  
Old 03-08-2013, 12:30 AM
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What is amazing is how these seemingly ‘harmless’ assembly bills and senate bills get passed and the agenda behind them is over looked. They throw the mask of “protection” and “public good” and “safety” in these bills and all they are is a back door tactic to remove the guns from the “trouble makers” so eventually there will be no guns and nobody to stop a tyrannical government. Have you noticed this sequester of government spending and the language they threw in to frighten you into spending more? “We need to get this going, the republicans refuse to budge on this” you mean the republicans are being responsible and not going to allow the Imposter in Chief recklessly blow taxpayer money, MY money? Sounds good so far! So they say “we will have to cut spending and it will hurt.” They threaten to cut spending to the Military, Federal Police, schooling, and children but yet I see we gave Egypt $250 million right after that. Hey but it is cool to give money to Illegal Aliens (criminals) for college but my U.S. Citizen son will have to pay up the nose for an education he is entitled to. It’s also cool to give money in the form of foreign aid to countries that are openly critical of us. And let us not forget about Obummer care and how it is so *****en he won’t even use it but we are forced under penalty of fine if we do not. This is all the Fleecing of America! Our government uses extortion, fraud, theft, and misappropriation of public funds to pad their wallets and bank accounts while they bleed us dry. Now comes the laws to remove the guns from our hands in order to protect their phony bologna kingdoms and ensure that We The People stay under the thumb of They, the Ones That Work For Us! I stood tall and took an oath to protect us from all enemies foreign and domestic and I aim to do that. This government has abused us and taken from us then left us in the street then has the audacity to ask us for gas money home! My Second Amendment guarantees my right to keep and bear arms SHALL not be infringed so you can have it when I’m out of ammo!
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  #57  
Old 03-08-2013, 12:35 AM
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Sorry, I have been on this rant for 3 days now and I seem to fit it in anywhere I can. It is appropriate for this topic though and it explains why they are trying to remove the guns from the people, which I'm sure you all know that.
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  #58  
Old 03-08-2013, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by twoyellowlabs View Post
How can we link these constitutional infringements of 2a to other civil rights? Maybe everyone is not pro 2A like us. If we can relate that to an Ammendment that the average liberal in this state holds near and dear, perhaps others might understand what is at risk and join the fight. Once they infringe on one, why would they stop there? For example, permit to buy ammunition. When do you need a permit to buy gas, paint, fertilizer, kitchen knives? Anything that could be lumped into the public safety domain. Million dollar liability insurance for guns. Cars cause cause more fatalities than guns so when would they require million dollar policies for autos, boats, motorcycles. How about limiting autos that exceed the state speed limit? Internet licensing fee for buying on line? I'm sure one of our super smart lawyers could come up with numerous examples of how one ammendment violation could easily be interpreted to violate another.
How about the fourth amendment?

Individuals are protected “in their persons, houses, papers and effects” from unreasonable searches. If the police—agents of the executive branch—wish to search a home or other place for evidence of a crime, they must first convince a judge—the judicial branch—that there is enough evidence to obtain a search warrant. The court must decide if “probable cause” exists to issue a warrant, and the warrant must list the place to be searched and the evidence police believe they will find.

One of the major gun-control efforts in Olympia this session calls for the sheriff to inspect the homes of assault-weapon owners. The bill’s backers say that was a mistake. Forget police drones flying over your house. How about police coming inside, once a year, to have a look around?

As Orwellian as that sounds, it isn’t hypothetical. The notion of police home inspections was introduced in a bill last week in Olympia.

That it’s part of one of the major gun-control efforts pains me. It seemed in recent weeks lawmakers might be headed toward some common-sense regulation of gun sales. But then last week they went too far. By mistake, they claim. But still too far.

“They always say, we’ll never go house to house to take your guns away. But then you see this, and you have to wonder.”

That’s no gun-rights absolutist talking, but Lance Palmer, a Seattle trial lawyer and self-described liberal who brought the troubling Senate Bill 5737 to my attention. It’s the long-awaited assault-weapons ban, introduced last week by three Seattle Democrats.

Responding to the Newtown school massacre, the bill would ban the sale of semi-automatic weapons that use detachable ammunition magazines. Clips that contain more than 10 rounds would be illegal.

But then, with respect to the thousands of weapons like that already owned by Washington residents, the bill says this:

“In order to continue to possess an assault weapon that was legally possessed on the effective date of this section, the person possessing shall ... safely and securely store the assault weapon. The sheriff of the county may, no more than once per year, conduct an inspection to ensure compliance with this subsection.”

In other words, come into homes without a warrant to poke around. Failure to comply could get you up to a year in jail.

“I’m a liberal Democrat — I’ve voted for only one Republican in my life,” Palmer told me. “But now I understand why my right-wing opponents worry about having to fight a government takeover.”

He added: “It’s exactly this sort of thing that drives people into the arms of the NRA.”

I have been blasting the NRA for its paranoia in the gun-control debate. But Palmer is right — you can’t fully blame them, when cops going door-to-door shows up in legislation.

I spoke to two of the sponsors. One, Sen. Adam Kline, D-Seattle, a lawyer who typically is hyper-attuned to civil-liberties issues, said he did not know the bill authorized police searches because he had not read it closely before signing on.

“I made a mistake,” Kline said. “I frankly should have vetted this more closely.”

That lawmakers sponsor bills they haven’t read is common. Still, it’s disappointing on one of this political magnitude. Not counting a long table, it’s only an eight-page bill.

The prime sponsor, Sen. Ed Murray, D-Seattle, also condemned the search provision in his own bill, after I asked him about it. He said Palmer is right that it’s probably unconstitutional.

“I have to admit that shouldn’t be in there,” Murray said.

He said he came to realize that an assault-weapons ban has little chance of passing this year anyway. So he put in this bill more as “a general statement, as a guiding light of where we need to go.” Without sweating all the details.

Later, a Senate Democratic spokesman blamed unnamed staff and said a new bill will be introduced.

Murray had alluded at a gun-control rally in January that progress on guns could take years.

“We will only win if we reach out and continue to change the hearts and minds of Washingtonians,” Murray said. “We can attack them, or start a dialogue.”

Good plan, very bad start. What’s worse, the case for the perfectly reasonable gun-control bills in Olympia just got tougher.

Danny Westneat’s column appears Wednesday and Sunday. Reach him at 206-464-2086 or dwestneat@seattletimes.com
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Old 03-08-2013, 6:48 AM
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Speaking of illegal search and siezure:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=8891
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Old 03-08-2013, 9:10 AM
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Yowtch

I can't wait for ammo registration.

Print and send a copy to your local legislator.
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Old 03-08-2013, 9:25 AM
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Liberals are destroying this country while the GOP goes about its business aimlessly.
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Old 03-08-2013, 6:02 PM
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Speaking of illegal search and siezure:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=8891
HOLY SNAP! That is amazing! What a clear violation of the 4th amendment and for them to follow an illegal order from a superoir is just stupid and it put themselves into a position where they can be sued to the point of homelessness! That still makes me scratch my head and say "Whiskey Tengo FoxTrot!"
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Old 03-08-2013, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil Ossiferz Stone View Post
/soapbox mode on

We need to organize a good old-fashioned sit in on the steps of the State Capitol, with us carrying cardboard cutouts of weapons we actually own. The Million Rifle March. And then we camp out front in pup tents until Moonbeam comes out and has a word with us on the topic, or the cops haul us away and clog their jails so full they don't have room for the *real* criminals. And then we pay our fines and come back every few months and do it again and again and again. Organized, scheduled, polite 'protests' in some park somewhere is just political masturbation. It merely makes us feel good. It is a parody of the real thing. No one sees, no one cares.

You need to get in the public's face. You need to make Big Government physically uncomfortable. You need to attract the media. Then you hand out pamphlets inviting people to a free public shooting class at a local target range, with maybe a BBQ picnic and some Two Buck Chuck afterwards. You volunteer your time to be there and you provide the ammo and the training. Gently urge them to buy their own neat fun gun that they liked shooting, so that they too now have something to lose. This is how hippies used to get people physically involved in the civil rights movement back when -- by making it fun.

Being polite and indignant has its limits, guys. You stage sit ins, you stage pickets, you hand out literature, you woo people into joining, you write your representatives, you sue people. The OWS retards do only the first; we by and large only do the last two. The only successful movements in our history did all of the above, repeatedly, continuously, all the time. And they didn't stop until they got what they wanted. My parents were part of that, so I know whereof I speak. Yes, I know we have jobs and families and stuff, and repeated violations might impact our ability to legally own guns. That will have to be looked into. (We do have some good legal counsel we can ask about that. How many times can you be hauled off in cuffs, albeit peacefully and with a smile on your face, before you're considered some kind of threat to public safety?). Yes, there is good reason why public protest -- particularly the unscheduled in-your-face kind -- is the provenance of the young and single, and maybe a lot of us shrink from the idea.

But I'm telling you, until we attack our enemies using the entire spectrum of tools at our disposal, we're crippled. We need to stop acting like just another special interest group -- one burdened with guns and Bibles, because those engender fright and a curled lip amongst a large segment of our population. This is the civil rights battle of our era. We need to make that clear to John Q. Public, even if we have to be rude.
I dig what you are saying but the problem is some knucklehead will take his cardboard cut out and play cops and robbers and next thing you know someone is arrested for CPC 417.4. Every person who, except in self-defense, draws or exhibitsan imitation firearm, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 16700,in a threatening manner against another in such a way as to cause areasonable person apprehension or fear of bodily harm is guilty of a
misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for a term of
not less than 30 days.

Kind of lame, yes, but you know just as well as I do that a thing like this will draw the media flies and they would love nothing more than to crucify us at the drop of a hat. The gun grabbers will be there and "in fearing for their safety" will have a show of force with CHP and local LEO's with orders (and a cheat sheet of the "possible" crimes expected to be committed. I've been there and had that sheet [Day without an Illegal]). If the cut outs were on a stick like a picket sign then I don't see a problem with it but you never know.
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Old 03-08-2013, 9:10 PM
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I just registered to vote in ca for the first time. I'm 43, never liked politics. Time to think.
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Old 03-08-2013, 9:24 PM
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Does anyone know if it will be banned to ship them out of state to a friends safe if this BS goes through. That is if they succeed in ripping our 2nd amendment to shreds will there be a grace period to handle anything, or move out of state or send your guns out of state etc. This is so crazy! What are we supposed to do with the extra ammo that is above 500 rounds etc?
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:05 PM
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Great Youtube channel! every gun owner should subscribe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7oa...5cOuPJRppIh1yQ
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Old 03-10-2013, 5:30 AM
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AB-48 This bill would make it a misdemeanor to manufacture, import, keep for sale, offer or expose for sale, or give or lend any device that is capable of converting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacity magazine.
If I'm reading this correctly, are they trying to ban all hand tools such as screw drivers, etc... ?
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Old 03-10-2013, 7:59 AM
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Originally Posted by beep_gun View Post
I just registered to vote in ca for the first time. I'm 43, never liked politics. Time to think.
In 2014 you need to exercise your right and help vote these liberals out of office.
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Old 03-10-2013, 1:53 PM
Phil Ossiferz Stone Phil Ossiferz Stone is offline
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Originally Posted by lawman18 View Post
I dig what you are saying but the problem is some knucklehead will take his cardboard cut out and play cops and robbers and next thing you know someone is arrested for CPC 417.4.
Point taken. Then a sign with a picture of your longarms on it. That's a mere detail. The point is to get people off their comfortable middle-class duffs and accustomed to ACTING.

And speaking of direct action, if these asinine unConstitutional laws are passed -- if too much ammunition or my Ruger 10/22 I've had since I was 14 or not having my liability insurance for one of my several inalienable rights become felony offenses -- I say we RECALL THE FREAKING GOVERNOR. Don't tell me we don't have the signatures to do it, or oh ick that'll blow all our political capital and make the rest of the state mad at us... We're already demonized and discriminated against. We very nearly have nothing to lose. We've had our right to open carry -- something that was perfectly innocuous and legal for our state's entire history, all through the unrest of the 60's and the crime wave of the 80's, right until three months ago -- stripped away with nary a whimper. And now all the rest of this intrusive nonsensical legislation. Moonbeam must be made to realize he woke the sleeping giant, and his recall will be a warning shot fired across the bow of all those postmodern pod-people in Sacramento.

It took more than a decade to abolish the draft and secure the right of black people in the South to take a leak in the same bathroom. This is not a battle for the next vote or the next election. It is a battle for the soul of our nation. The uber-left has been actively fighting the culture wars since I was in diapers. We need to start fighting back.

But maybe Calguns.net isn't the correct forum for discussing something that uncomfortably radical. We certainly don't want them to be tarred with the brush that's going to be wielded against us.

Last edited by Phil Ossiferz Stone; 03-10-2013 at 1:58 PM..
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:16 PM
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Chiming in a little late, but I agree with many comments, especially those by Phil Ossiferz Stone about being careful with wording and incorporating a specific call to action.

Every time I see a group use the word tyranny, I all but dismiss them as being radical zealots. My belief is that the focus of the message should be on the loss of freedoms at the hands of politicians that don't or can't grasp the true driving factors of such a complex issue (i.e. guns aren't the killers).

Given enough time and help to do a little research, a better approach would be to highlight the freedoms that we have lost every time the govt. makes a knee-jerk reaction in response to a tragedy. A very recent example is the passing of the Patriot Act in response to 9/11. The interpretation by the JD that American citizens can be justifiably targeted by drone attacks on US soil is another. The objective is to show the steady and clear erosion of freedom at the hands of the govt. over time.

Considering the opponent's (i.e. legislator's) strategy for a minute, the list of proposed legislation could be proposed as Trojan horses - present something so outrageous, knowing that it won't pass, only to come back with a different proposal that stills erodes freedoms but seems reasonable by comparison. If they get lucky and the radical measure somehow passes, Christmas comes early for them. However, when we oppose their "more moderate" proposal, we appear to be uncompromising and are made out to be the bad guy. It's a no-lose situation for them.

Just a few thoughts for what they are worth.

Last edited by FanTactical; 03-10-2013 at 10:18 PM..
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Old 03-11-2013, 9:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanTactical View Post
Chiming in a little late, but I agree with many comments, especially those by Phil Ossiferz Stone about being careful with wording and incorporating a specific call to action.

Every time I see a group use the word tyranny, I all but dismiss them as being radical zealots. My belief is that the focus of the message should be on the loss of freedoms at the hands of politicians that don't or can't grasp the true driving factors of such a complex issue (i.e. guns aren't the killers).

Given enough time and help to do a little research, a better approach would be to highlight the freedoms that we have lost every time the govt. makes a knee-jerk reaction in response to a tragedy. A very recent example is the passing of the Patriot Act in response to 9/11. The interpretation by the JD that American citizens can be justifiably targeted by drone attacks on US soil is another. The objective is to show the steady and clear erosion of freedom at the hands of the govt. over time.

Considering the opponent's (i.e. legislator's) strategy for a minute, the list of proposed legislation could be proposed as Trojan horses - present something so outrageous, knowing that it won't pass, only to come back with a different proposal that stills erodes freedoms but seems reasonable by comparison. If they get lucky and the radical measure somehow passes, Christmas comes early for them. However, when we oppose their "more moderate" proposal, we appear to be uncompromising and are made out to be the bad guy. It's a no-lose situation for them.

Just a few thoughts for what they are worth.
Unfortunately anything we do makes us look like crazy redneck, right wing Christian, gun freaks! Not a far off description of me minus the crazy part. Guns and gun owners have been vilified for years and it has gone unchecked and now we are being "discriminated" against because of our beliefs in the second amendment of our constitution all the while the liberal media lies to the country by telling simple minded people that "a gun killed a child today in a drive by shooting in Compton". So some jackass liberal with a 3rd grade education thinks a gun and an suv decided on their own to kill a child so the media must by right when they want to ban guns and suv's! And this is done under the blanket of the 1st amendment of the very same constitution and it is accepted as normal to have a double standard and we are supposed to be ok with that. Unfortunately we as gun owners (and suv owners) have just let it happen thinking "they will never change the constitution because it opens other amendments up to change". I was one of those people. I have since changed my mind as the Imposter in chief has grown more and more socialist, I think the 2nd amendment is just the tip of the iceberg. I feel I'm partly to blame as is all gun owners that thought the US Constitution was untouchable.
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Old 03-11-2013, 2:53 PM
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I understand your point. Unfortunately, that is the blessing and curse of democracy where the rule is by majority. It's a biach to get a majority together for anything.

However, truthful items such as this Forbes article are the ammunition to wage a political war (of words) and generate interest because, like it or not, a publication is seen as being more credible than you or I.

A list of these types of govt. activities should raise more than a few eyebrows with the general public. Asking if this is the most effective use of govt. spending and resources is much more effective at sparking dialog and inquiry than chanting on a street corner - IMHO.

As always, YMMV.
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Old 03-11-2013, 3:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanTactical View Post
I understand your point. Unfortunately, that is the blessing and curse of democracy where the rule is by majority. It's a biach to get a majority together for anything.

However, truthful items such as this Forbes article are the ammunition to wage a political war (of words) and generate interest because, like it or not, a publication is seen as being more credible than you or I.

A list of these types of govt. activities should raise more than a few eyebrows with the general public. Asking if this is the most effective use of govt. spending and resources is much more effective at sparking dialog and inquiry than chanting on a street corner - IMHO.

As always, YMMV.

The ammo will be used for LEO's like ICE and their "residential centers"!
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Old 03-12-2013, 6:06 PM
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Originally Posted by pdq_wizzard View Post
I will fight this, but if any of this passes I'm out of this F'ed up state. then I will fight from a free state. (if there are any left)

edit to add, this is just one of the many things I now hate about this state. Like I have said before $0.40+ of every $$ I make is going to the feds and the state.
Move and let them have it. Your vote is over-ride'd every election too.
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Old 03-13-2013, 8:38 PM
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Just in case I didn't see the post, or you all missed it. California Seizes Guns as Owners Lose Right to Keep Arms http://t.co/wdjXpHgMUz I will not surrender.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by pennys dad View Post
Ting (D), Gomez (D) AB-231 Public Safety: Gun Violence.
This bill would require owners of firearms to carry liability insurance for their firearms
These politicians must know nothing about insurance.
I've worked in it for appx 10 years and can say with certainty that this would never work.

1. In liability insurance if you do something deliberately (i.e. go on a shooting rampage) then the insurance company will deny it. Intentional acts are a straight forward denial.

2. In the event that the gun is stolen and used in a mass shooting (as it was in Sandy Hook) again the insurance company would deny the claim. An owner cannot be held responsible for the thief's actions.


These are core principals of how liability insurance works. If you ignore these then the potential risk, and opportunity for insurance fraud would go through the roof.

The only recourse the insurance companies would have would be to increase premiums to outrageous prices.

hmm... maybe that's what the Dems wanted all along. (Make owning a gun unreasonably expensive)
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Old 03-14-2013, 6:21 AM
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Just in case I didn't see the post, or you all missed it. California Seizes Guns as Owners Lose Right to Keep Arms http://t.co/wdjXpHgMUz I will not surrender.
I saw that article. Funny how they don't have warrants. Still it's pretty sad that the state is doing this.
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:15 PM
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Im on top of it
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by kel-tec-innovations View Post
Does it even cost those clowns out of pocket money to keep making a bunch of BS bills to harm law abiding citizens? or are they getting the money from law abiding citizen's taxes to fund their ridiculous bills? If you are using our tax money then there would be no stopping them. So how do we vote them out of office?

I remember seeing alot of petitions, do they even work ?
I think their activity is illegal and they should be fought back on their own arena that will affect them personally like they are trying to affect us personally. what I mean is, they should all be issued a (cease and desist) order to permanently block them from acting illegally again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cease_and_desist
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Old 03-18-2013, 6:38 PM
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And while we snoozed the democrats gained a supermajority
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