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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 03-01-2013, 2:51 PM
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Exclamation CGSSA ACTION: READ IT! PRINT IT! DISTRIBUTE IT!

CGSSA ACTION: READ IT! PRINT IT! DISTRIBUTE IT!

CGSSA ACTION: READ IT! PRINT IT! DISTRIBUTE IT!
File Attached
http://cgssa.org/stopthetyranny

Get involved - Follow the Link




Attached Files
File Type: pdf CGSSA_STOP_THE_TYRANNY.pdf (419.9 KB, 405 views)
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Last edited by pennys dad; 03-01-2013 at 5:16 PM..
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  #2  
Old 03-01-2013, 3:01 PM
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Nice. I was gonna make something like this myself and distibute. This is much better than what I would have came up with!

Will be printing and handing out starting tonight after work
Thank you for your work!
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  #3  
Old 03-01-2013, 4:28 PM
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Thanks for the post! i will be getting this out ever place.
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  #4  
Old 03-01-2013, 4:38 PM
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Wow, if all of these pass I have the potential to be arrested for at least six felonies, and I've never even received a single traffic ticket in my life!
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  #5  
Old 03-01-2013, 4:45 PM
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I will fight this, but if any of this passes I'm out of this F'ed up state. then I will fight from a free state. (if there are any left)

edit to add, this is just one of the many things I now hate about this state. Like I have said before $0.40+ of every $$ I make is going to the feds and the state.
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My new saying is, "when the last informed shooter gets fed up setting the record straight from all the trolls, only trolls will be on Calguns.."
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More what? More crazy?
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  #6  
Old 03-01-2013, 4:59 PM
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Here's a link to the actual site, since the OP didn't bother adding one.
http://cgssa.org/stopthetyranny
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  #7  
Old 03-01-2013, 6:29 PM
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Thanks for the post...they have gone too far!!!
Time to take action!
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  #8  
Old 03-01-2013, 6:55 PM
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Great flyer and im all for passing it out, but I noticed when i scanned the QR code it takes me straight to the donate page. I think some might be turned off by that and not take the time to hit the links and do some research.
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  #9  
Old 03-01-2013, 7:53 PM
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We need to make our stand ASAP and make our voices heard before we are turned into criminals.
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  #10  
Old 03-01-2013, 8:03 PM
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Perfect. I work for a company that employs several thousand in California. When I distribute this, it will spread like wildfire.
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  #11  
Old 03-01-2013, 8:20 PM
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Some nits to pick:

re SB-293: What does "owner authorized" mean? Why should this be opposed?

re SB-299: Why is reporting "lost or stolen" firearms a bad thing?

re SB-396: Why oppose this? Aren't 10 round mags a good thing?

re AB-170: Could the OP explain the opposition to this?

I'll stop here.

CRPA, for all their faults, usually does a great job to explain why the various bills floated by this dysfunctional legislature are bad, harm gun owners, and attempt to deceive the public. This flyer should do the same.
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  #12  
Old 03-01-2013, 9:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdberger View Post
Some nits to pick:

re SB-293: What does "owner authorized" mean? Why should this be opposed?

re SB-299: Why is reporting "lost or stolen" firearms a bad thing?

re SB-396: Why oppose this? Aren't 10 round mags a good thing?
I can answer a couple of these.

re SB-293: Owner Authorized are, I believe, the technology that would key a handgun to a specific person. Think sci-fi police guns and you have an idea (Dredd is a perfect example if you've seen it.) It would mean you would have a very hard time loaning your gun to someone.

re SB-299: Reporting a firearm lost or stolen isn't a bad thing; the problem is the timing. As I've read it, if you're gone for a week and your guns are stolen from your house the day after you leave, you've now commited a felony if you don't find out about it until you get back.

re SB-396: This would make 10/30 mags illegal, since they could THEORETICALLY hold more than 10 rounds. It would mean you couldn't pin a larger magazine down to fit California standards.

If you have any other questions please feel free to ask.
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  #13  
Old 03-01-2013, 10:49 PM
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Does it even cost those clowns out of pocket money to keep making a bunch of BS bills to harm law abiding citizens? or are they getting the money from law abiding citizen's taxes to fund their ridiculous bills? If you are using our tax money then there would be no stopping them. So how do we vote them out of office?

I remember seeing alot of petitions, do they even work ?
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  #14  
Old 03-01-2013, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kel-tec-innovations View Post
I remember seeing alot of petitions, do they even work ?
Yes and No.

Real petitions with physical signatures do carry weight, these are verifiable as individual signatures.
People taking the time to stop and physically sign a petition shows an interest and a minimum level of engagement. It shows that those people are at least aware and paying some attention.

Online petitions, whether emailed or printed and sent carry no weight at all.
There is no way to verify that these are not one person or even a bot filling out thousands of comments and then 'signing' them.
In regards to a recent online petition drive a staffer was quoted as saying 'If they had printed those on toilet paper at least then they would have been useful for something' referring to a stack of printed online petitions sitting on the floor in a corner.

The only possible exception to this is an online petition set up and hosted by a Legislator.
In that instance there can be at least some form of tracking to show the possibility of signatories being individuals by comparing 'signatures' to unique IP addresses. Even that is questionable since some providers use gateway IPs or communal blocks of IPs.

If you want to make a difference, contact the Legislators directly.
Call them, write them, send personal emails.
And do it often.
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  #15  
Old 03-02-2013, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bslaney View Post
I can answer a couple of these.

re SB-293: Owner Authorized are, I believe, the technology that would key a handgun to a specific person. Think sci-fi police guns and you have an idea (Dredd is a perfect example if you've seen it.) It would mean you would have a very hard time loaning your gun to someone.

re SB-299: Reporting a firearm lost or stolen isn't a bad thing; the problem is the timing. As I've read it, if you're gone for a week and your guns are stolen from your house the day after you leave, you've now commited a felony if you don't find out about it until you get back.

re SB-396: This would make 10/30 mags illegal, since they could THEORETICALLY hold more than 10 rounds. It would mean you couldn't pin a larger magazine down to fit California standards.

If you have any other questions please feel free to ask.
Thanks for your response.

I actually know the answers to the questions I posed. But will the guy who picks up the flyer in the gunshop know? My point being, sometimes these things need to be spelled out so people (voters) have a visceral reaction to the bill and thus oppose it. In the past, NRA and CRPA legisative folks have been pretty good at that. Since Pennysdad has a relationship with both, it might be a good idea to leverage that resource to create a similar summary for each bill.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.
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  #16  
Old 03-02-2013, 6:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdberger View Post
Thanks for your response.

I actually know the answers to the questions I posed. But will the guy who picks up the flyer in the gunshop know? My point being, sometimes these things need to be spelled out so people (voters) have a visceral reaction to the bill and thus oppose it. In the past, NRA and CRPA legisative folks have been pretty good at that. Since Pennysdad has a relationship with both, it might be a good idea to leverage that resource to create a similar summary for each bill.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.
Josh, we are going to do many of these, we understand that the message is not right for each person, do you want to give us a hand by helping to proof read?
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  #17  
Old 03-02-2013, 6:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennys dad View Post
Josh, we are going to do many of these, we understand that the message is not right for each person, do you want to give us a hand by helping to proof read?
Always happy to help. You have my email.
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  #18  
Old 03-02-2013, 8:16 AM
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I think using the word Tyranny has a negative impact, shuts people down from hearing us. Like invoking Hitler in a conversation, the conversation, the back and forth of communication is over.

Its not tyranny, the Bills are an attempt towards tyranny.

Why do I need to oppose this?
How will it affect me personally?

What is the Call to Action? Do I vote yes or no?

This ought to be talking more to the non-gun owners as the gun owners will grasp the content more readily.

Vick
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  #19  
Old 03-02-2013, 8:33 AM
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Thx Josh, i will add you to our working group
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  #20  
Old 03-02-2013, 9:18 AM
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hey guys - per email notes ( I'm not a wordsmith and the document was worded clear to me ) only comments are :

It looks pretty concise - only thing I would suggest is creating a Black/White only version without the gradients - it will make copy / toner printing results more clear and easier to read
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  #21  
Old 03-02-2013, 9:28 AM
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So if I understand this, a ruger 10/22 will become a registered assault weapon? Wtf has gone wrong with people in this country.
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  #22  
Old 03-02-2013, 9:46 AM
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Actually one other item - information hierarchy is a bit disjointed

Ammo / firearm feature / use

Right now the bills are just listed in a seemingly unorganized way from a relational perspective - I would suggest grouping similar bills into visual groups so it's easier to digest quickly
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadbolt View Post
hey guys - per email notes ( I'm not a wordsmith and the document was worded clear to me ) only comments are :

It looks pretty concise - only thing I would suggest is creating a Black/White only version without the gradients - it will make copy / toner printing results more clear and easier to read
^^^ This
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  #24  
Old 03-02-2013, 12:33 PM
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Number one rule of marketing with a flyer: don't put too much information on it. That's an overwhelming looking flyer.
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  #25  
Old 03-02-2013, 1:28 PM
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To me this isn't marketing so much as education. If a good dichotomy of bills that are hot is created it will be even less overwhelming and better received
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:00 AM
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Ok so here's my suggestions in action.

Additionally some of the verbage is a little extreme and more might be inclined to indulge themselves if the headline were a little less intimidating...

What i did was re-organize the information so that while we are all super stoked on CGSSA & Calguns.net --- the important aspects of this flyer are to raise awareness and outrage at the various legislation being brought to the table

I also tried to somewhat clean up the copy in the "per bill" descriptions - there was a lot of excesses / repetitive phrases ( "this bill ....." ) -- however I didn't want to go too hog wild so some have retained the repetitive text

Additionally I dont have print quality logos for Calguns and CGSSA - so the logos I just plunked down there for visual reference.

side 1:



side 2:


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  #27  
Old 03-03-2013, 3:31 PM
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Wow nice work Deadbolt! The original borrowed most of the text from the actual bills, so any wording issues you can credit to our state legislature!

Your version looks great! Shoot me a PM so we can talk about your version without cluttering the thread.
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  #28  
Old 03-03-2013, 6:36 PM
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Default Please Post on Every Sub-Forum Page

To the OP or Moderators. I'm sure that most people return to this website using a bookmark and go directly to a particular forum. They totally miss the main page with important alerts like:

CGSSA ACTION: READ IT! PRINT IT! DISTRIBUTE IT! - GET INVOLVED HERE! Get engaged in the fight HERE!

These important alerts needs to be seen by EVERYBODY but I'm afraid the majority of people never do. PLEASE add them on the top of every sub-forum page, ESPECIALLY the Market Place forums. Not just as a STICKY.

I only saw this alert by accident. There are hundreds, maybe thousands that are totally unaware of this urgent message.

Thanks
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  #29  
Old 03-03-2013, 9:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Yes and No.
Real petitions with physical signatures do carry weight, these are verifiable as individual signatures.
Here you go:
http://firearmspolicy.org/wp-content...a-petition.pdf
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  #30  
Old 03-04-2013, 6:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadbolt View Post
Ok so here's my suggestions in action.

Additionally some of the verbage is a little extreme and more might be inclined to indulge themselves if the headline were a little less intimidating...

What i did was re-organize the information so that while we are all super stoked on CGSSA & Calguns.net --- the important aspects of this flyer are to raise awareness and outrage at the various legislation being brought to the table

I also tried to somewhat clean up the copy in the "per bill" descriptions - there was a lot of excesses / repetitive phrases ( "this bill ....." ) -- however I didn't want to go too hog wild so some have retained the repetitive text

Additionally I dont have print quality logos for Calguns and CGSSA - so the logos I just plunked down there for visual reference.

side 1:



side 2:


I will help with this and I like the revised version better! BUT...

I do agree with what Can'thavenuthingood said:
  • This needs to be targeted at non-gun owners
  • Some wording is too strong like "tyranny" for them

IMHO - For change to occur we need to concentrate on getting our non-gun owning friends, coworkers, and neighbors involved. Most volunteers will uselessly place these flyers at gun stores and ranges, where we already have support!

We need the average John and Joan Public's support, and we are losing that battle thanks to a liberal, uninformed, anti-gun, and myopic media. So, why not have a Calguns sponsored "take a non gun owner shooting day" or similar. Afterall, many of us were bitten by the gun bug only after we went shooting for the first time!
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  #31  
Old 03-04-2013, 6:16 AM
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Sean and Darryl - pm incoming.
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Old 03-04-2013, 9:03 AM
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Another thought before my hike...

In thinking along the lines of introducing those who have never shot to the sport...

Perhaps an organized week or two long event coordinated with California's indoor and outdoor ranges could be created by CGSSA/CGN/NRA/etc.
If ranges would severly discount their fees for that event it might do several good things:
  1. Bring more people to the sport
  2. Gain greater acceptance for guns & shooting
  3. Increase awareness of pending gun laws and terms
  4. Allow the ranges to gain a larger customer base
  5. Allow Calguns to increase memberships
  6. Get more signatures on petitions!
  7. Am I missing any???
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"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.
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Old 03-04-2013, 9:27 AM
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The original flyer has been updated (corrected a spelling issue that slipped through the cracks). The same URL provided in the OP gets the latest version.

Also added a version without the color fill:
http://www.cgssa.org/documents/polit...NNY_NOFILL.pdf

Will be responding to PM's over the course of the day. Remember, this is just the first step! We are going to be adding content and flyers designed to address these issues to completely different groups. 2013 we are going all in to defeat these bills. All volunteer efforts to help out are welcome!
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Licht View Post
I will help with this and I like the revised version better! BUT...

I do agree with what Can'thavenuthingood said:
  • This needs to be targeted at non-gun owners
  • Some wording is too strong like "tyranny" for them

IMHO - For change to occur we need to concentrate on getting our non-gun owning friends, coworkers, and neighbors involved. Most volunteers will uselessly place these flyers at gun stores and ranges, where we already have support!

We need the average John and Joan Public's support, and we are losing that battle thanks to a liberal, uninformed, anti-gun, and myopic media. So, why not have a Calguns sponsored "take a non gun owner shooting day" or similar. Afterall, many of us were bitten by the gun bug only after we went shooting for the first time!
Yes we need to pass out flyers at shopping malls and colleges and other places where non-gun people go. There are probably thousands of people out there who have a gun in their closet and have no idea they are going to be turned into a felon if these laws pass.

We also need to be collecting signatures on petitions. Talk to anyone and everyone who has ever been, or is currently in the military. These are the folks who appreciate the need for arms.

Last edited by biscuitbarrel; 03-04-2013 at 9:57 PM..
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:19 AM
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/glances over both pamphlets

Senior-level technical writer here. I have eighteen years' experience ferreting out information from busy software engineers and couching what they tell me in non-technical terms. The concept of 'target audience' is core to my profession.

The target audience for these documents is not the general public. It is the gun owning community. It is so much preaching to the choir, in an ever-more polarized society that increasingly does nothing *but* preach to the choir on every topic from abortion to energy independence. And that right there is a blunder of incalculable proportions. Lemme tell you what you already know about your average suburbanite Californian: They don't care. They'll look at this laundry list of new laws and shrug and go 'so? I have a licence for my car. I pay insurance for my car. I have speed limits. This is the same thing for you guys. Go ahead and wave your flag and your Bible around and yell about MAH FREEDUMBS. I hope the ATF comes and shoots you all, LOLOL.' Then they'll go back to listening to NPR and watching the John Stewart show.

Now. You want to grab them by the lapels? You want to drill them right between the eyes with what's at stake? Here's the message you must hammer into your target audience: WHATEVER THEY DO TO THE 2ND AMENDMENT, THEY CAN DO TO ALL THE OTHERS.

-Liability insurance for public demonstrations. Oh, you want to hang out with the OWS crowd? Very good sir. Where is your insurance? Oh, I'm sorry you don't have any -- and last time they vandalized a squad car and broke some windows, so your group's premiums just went up, teehee... THIS WILL HAPPEN, sir, if the laws just passed in New York are upheld by the Supreme Court! This is not fiction! It is fact!

-Licenses to go online -- after all, when the Constitution was written, paper media was the only one available. You have to have a license to shoot a gun or drive a car. Now you need one to go on the information superhighway, so we can log your activity online. This will fight software piracy and child pornography. Do it for the children...! They already tried something very like this with SOPA. You know they'll try again, and they will use whatever system of control they establish over the 2nd Amendment to regulate the heck out of the First. Same legislators. Same control-freak mentality.

-Are you aware that as of this moment, California remains in defiance of Federal law with regards to medical marijuana? Do you honestly think that once they have set up an enforcement mechanism to regulate and police and imprison honest gun owners, they won't come after the whacky weedus -- and whatever else they feel like? The War On Drugs is a horrifying bust. Do you honestly think a War On Guns will be any better?

-And why, and for what? Why are we crippling the Bill of Rights? Less than ten per cent of all gun crimes are committed by longarms -- that is, by all shotguns and rifles combined. The number of those that are legally owned comprise a similarly small percentage. (Insert hyperlinks to the corresponding pages at FBI.gov; invite them to fact-check. Feed them information, not your opinion).

-This is not about safety. It is about power and control, just like SOPA. Remember SOPA? This is the gun owners' SOPA. It's the War on Guns; it's the new Prohibition. You don't have to like guns, you don't have to like *me*, you don't have to join the Tea Party or convert to Republicanism. But you do have to realize what's at stake. Join me! Next year will be too late. Oh, you're concerned now? Here's the link to the Calguns.net legal foundation. Here's the hyperlink to Colion Noir's latest YouTube video. And so forth.

These are the arguments that your target audience will relate to. Delete all references to the 'Constitution' and to 'tyranny', or even to the 'Founding Fathers' -- these are part and parcel of the tired old arch-conservative caricature of the fat bigoted Rethuglican gun owner that the far left has been erecting and beating on for decades. Referring to the Bill of Rights is golden. Don't even mention the document it's embedded in. Don't talk about King George or what Jefferson said; your target audience will roll their eyes and shut their minds off before the second syllable gets out. Talk about SOPA and the War on Drugs. And then remind them once again: WHATEVER THEY DO TO THE 2ND AMENDMENT, THEY CAN DO TO ALL THE OTHERS. Keep repeating that like some Buddhist mantra.

You are going to have to break out of the plastic tone-deaf shell you guys live in, the same shell within which it was confidently predicted Romney would win, then retreated back into in an orgy of mean-spirited discouragement after he lost. I assure you as somebody that just registered Republican for the first time in their lives that the Chicago/Alinsky crowd *does* understand the concept of target audience. You have got to stop glad-handing each other and slapping each other on the shoulder and reach out. Step outside the lines of battle that the enemy has drawn and get your message across. And I'm sorry, but those broadsheets only speak to people who are aware of and who are going to get hit by the legal hammer these bills represent. You have to stop it with the persecuted minority BS and start thinking like activists. NOW. RIGHT NOW. Snap out of it.

Here endeth the sermon. And... yes, I have been brooding heavily for the past week on how I might best use my skill sets to aid and abet the civil rights fight of my era. I'll see if I can get something worked up and posted myself, rather than shouting and scolding everybody else.

Meantime, go watch Mario Savio preach to power and get fired up. He'd be with us today, if he were still around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcx9BJRadfw

Last edited by Phil Ossiferz Stone; 03-04-2013 at 11:25 AM..
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:26 PM
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I know it seems cliche.but I just posted this link on my Facebook. Don't go tearing me a new ***. But it's a tool. Anyways I don't have the skills to make an online flyer where I can post it on my Facebook. But please someone out there who does have the know how make one for all of us to share on Facebook. These bills just pisses me the f€£k off!
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Old 03-04-2013, 2:48 PM
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Default Same Call to Action, Different Tone

I have to agree with Phil Ossiferz Stone on this one. The tone and approach is key to winning over more friends. I see a lot of my friends on Facebook and other social media sites using similar language (e.g. "tyranny" and "founding fathers") and it immediately turns off the large majority of undecided people. We can't convert them if they've already shut us out and walked away. A combative tone just alienates people.

Instead, we need to educate and enlighten people. I agree with Phil. It'll be more effective if we emphasize that whatever legislators can do to the 2A, they can do to the rest of the Bill of Rights. People will be more willing to listen and learn.

And on a more personal, everyday basis, tell whoever is willing to listen that 99% of gun-owners are your friends, neighbors, sales clerks, mechanics, doctors, and everyone in between -- that is, we're responsible, sane, and law-abiding.
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Old 03-04-2013, 8:37 PM
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I emailed all my people they seem to not give a **** so now its a sit and pray kinda of moment
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Old 03-04-2013, 8:43 PM
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Phil Ossiferz Stone wrote a marvelous post with many excellent points. As a conservative gun owner who is married to a fairly liberal woman who barely tolerates guns(and she has many liberal relatives who hate them), I am very familiar with the liberal reactions to gun owners protestations re the 2nd Amendment. Most liberals don't seem to give a rat's a** about our "rights". Sadly, most people in general don't seem to care about any type of infringement until such infringement affects them personally. Too many are living in a bubble these days, unwilling to get alarmed or stressed out until they feel some heat themselves.

As an aside, I am not new to guns or the NRA(collecting for 40 years), but I am new to this forum and Calguns. I also have some time on my hands, so if anyone here can point me in the right direction, I'd be happy to help the cause and try to beat back as many of these absurd new proposed laws as possible. Good Day, Robert (San Diego area)
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Old 03-04-2013, 9:34 PM
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Phil Ossiferz Stone you make a lot of good points. Having said that, you seem to be the most suited to draft the next evolution of this document. If we are going to make our case with the masses, we need to do it with haste. We have precious few weeks left before the vote.
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