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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 02-27-2013, 4:56 PM
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Question Out of State Gift?

Hi all,

New here. Love the site so far. I've been searching for answers to all of my questions but haven't had a whole lot of luck. It might be because I'm not sure what to search for...

Anyway, my brother wants to give me one of his AR's, it's an LWRC, I believe. He's in a different state. The next time he flies out here, he wants to bring the gun and possibly leave it with me as a gift.

Is this possible? If so, what would I need to do after he gives it to me? I do know I'd have to add a Bullet Button and a 10rd mag.

Sorry for the newbie question but all of these CA gun laws are making my head spin...

thanks!
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  #2  
Old 02-27-2013, 5:00 PM
milk242 milk242 is offline
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I think he has to make it CA legal before he can bring it in and do a PPT at a local FFL.

But please wait for other veterans to chime in as I have just started reading up on CA laws.
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Old 02-27-2013, 5:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milk242 View Post
I think he has to make it CA legal before he can bring it in and do a PPT at a local FFL.

But please wait for other veterans to chime in as I have just started reading up on CA laws.
Ok, thanks. Would it be possible for me to add the necessary conversions as soon as he got here? From what I've read, adding the Bullet Button is rather easy, right? And the mag, well...
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  #4  
Old 02-27-2013, 5:11 PM
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I recently went through something similar to this. This is the way I read the "rules" and did it.

Since he is out of state, it is treated just like any other out-of-state transfer. The fact that he is your brother doesn't matter to CA.

So, he'll need to ship it to an FFL inside CA, not all FFL's receive long guns from individuals, so you'll need to contact a few FFL's to make sure their willing to do it first. You'll want to check prices first too. Since some don't want to do these type of transfers, they jack their prices up.

So you looking at;

Shipping+DROS+FFL Fee

Honestly, since this is an AR. You might be money/headache ahead if you buy your own lower, and just have him ship you everything except the lower.
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Old 02-27-2013, 5:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldmandan View Post
I recently went through something similar to this. This is the way I read the "rules" and did it.

Since he is out of state, it is treated just like any other out-of-state transfer. The fact that he is your brother doesn't matter to CA.

So, he'll need to ship it to an FFL inside CA, not all FFL's receive long guns from individuals, so you'll need to contact a few FFL's to make sure their willing to do it first. You'll want to check prices first too. Since some don't want to do these type of transfers, they jack their prices up.

So you looking at;

Shipping+DROS+FFL Fee

Honestly, since this is an AR. You might be money/headache ahead if you buy your own lower, and just have him ship you everything except the lower.
So if he were to bring it here, we couldn't do the PPT at a local FFL like milk242 suggested above? Is that because he's not a CA resident and this isn't an in-state transfer?

Also, if he were to ship me the parts, do those have to go through an FFL or can they be shipped to me directly?
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Old 02-27-2013, 5:27 PM
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On another note, I just saw this thread that suggests my Dad could gift the gun to me and send it to an FFL that is willing to receive private shipments:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=710263

Would this work? Does it legally need to be transferred to my Dad from my brother first?
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  #7  
Old 02-27-2013, 5:42 PM
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That is the scenario I did. My wife's father in NC to her, here. Because it's out of state, family doesn't apply unless the father dies and it's willed. Brothers don't count at all.

As long as there's no lower, he can ship you all the parts in the mail without an FFL

The guys in the FFL forum, know their stuff better than me(I'm just a guy who dit it, they do it for a living), you might want to post this thread in there. They might be able to hook you up with an actual name of who to go through also.

It's my understanding that it can't be done here (if he brings it) unless your brother/father is a resident. But double-check that one in the FFL forum
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Old 02-27-2013, 5:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBeardActual View Post
On another note, I just saw this thread that suggests my Dad could gift the gun to me and send it to an FFL that is willing to receive private shipments:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=710263

Would this work? Does it legally need to be transferred to my Dad from my brother first?
Edited: That thread is for a off-roster firearm, different situation
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  #9  
Old 02-27-2013, 5:51 PM
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Federal law requires that interstate transfers (i. e., where the transferor and transferee are residents of different States) go through an FFL.
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  #10  
Old 02-27-2013, 6:00 PM
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What is the difference if it is a Mini-14, vs. an AR? My dad has retired to AZ. I was thinking about picking one up there on my next trip. Either from a private party, or have my dad buy it from a local shop. Since it's long gun, I was thinking I could just drive back with it. Any thoughts or experience with this? Thanks.

Last edited by stonecold434; 02-27-2013 at 6:06 PM..
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  #11  
Old 02-27-2013, 6:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stonecold434 View Post
What is the difference if it is a long gun, specifically a Mini-14. My dad has retired to AZ. I was thinking about picking one up there on my next trip. Either from a private party, or have my dad buy it from a local shop. Since it's long gun, I was thinking I could just drive back with it....
And by doing so you would commit a federal felony punishable by up to five years in federal prison (and an associated lifetime loss of gun rights).

Here (yet again) is the whole federal law story on interstate transfers of firearms (not including the rules for those with Curio and Relic licenses and the subject of dual residency):

[1] Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.).

[2] In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.

[3] In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence.

[4] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

[5] There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

[6] The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

Here's what the statutes say:
Quote:
18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful—
...

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph
(A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,

(B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;
...

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
....

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
...

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph
(A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and

(B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
...
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  #12  
Old 02-27-2013, 6:27 PM
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OK, thanks fiddletown. I was thinking of the state side not the Fed. And I was thinking AZ because, as you know as a fellow Bay Area resident, there isn't a Mini to be had anywhere, even at gouging prices.
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  #13  
Old 02-27-2013, 8:15 PM
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The sticky post in the handgun forum http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=503873 is the short-version of Fiddletown's post.
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Old 02-28-2013, 9:53 AM
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Ok, thanks for the info. I'll also post this in the FFL section but it looks like I have to go through an FFL or risk committing a felony...How do people transfer guns when they move to this state? Are they required to send those to an FFL first?
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBeardActual View Post
...How do people transfer guns when they move to this state? Are they required to send those to an FFL first?
No. A transfer is of possession from one person to another. When you move there is no transfer of possession (somewhere in federal law, giving temporary possession of a gun to a common carrier for shipment is considered not to be a transfer).

If you lawfully acquired a gun in another State while a resident of that State, you simply pack it and move with it. No transfer is involves. Of course that assumes that the gun is legal to possess in the State you're moving to (e. g., no large capacity magazines, prohibited assault rifles, etc., to California).
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Old 02-28-2013, 3:24 PM
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Does that rifle then need to be registered here if it was moved from out of state? How does one prove he/she owned it prior to coming to CA. I presume not all possessions have a paper trail...

Not asking to do anything illegal just curious about how all of these cases are handled.
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Old 02-28-2013, 4:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBeardActual View Post
Does that rifle then need to be registered here if it was moved from out of state? How does one prove he/she owned it prior to coming to CA. I presume not all possessions have a paper trail...

Not asking to do anything illegal just curious about how all of these cases are handled.
At this point, long guns aren't registered in California, except for certain so called assault rifles which had to be registered around the time California's AWB became effective. But the window of opportunity to register those is long past, and any such rifle which would have been subject to registration can't be brought in.

Long guns will be registered beginning 1 Jan 2014. A new resident has to register handguns brought in, and long guns after 1 Jan 2014. There's a form available on the California DOJ website.

Also, check out Calguns Wiki for pretty much everything you'd need to know about dealing with California gun laws.
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Old 02-28-2013, 4:50 PM
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Cool, thanks fiddletown for the info.

So what prevents people from bringing in long guns into the state illegally? And how is this sort of act policed if long guns aren't required to be registered (that is before jan 1, 2014)? Are you somehow required to show proof that you can legally own each long gun in your possesion?

This seems sort of scary as it implies anyone could bring a long gun into the state without going through the legal channels, right?
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Old 02-28-2013, 6:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBeardActual View Post
Cool, thanks fiddletown for the info.

So what prevents people from bringing in long guns into the state illegally? And how is this sort of act policed if long guns aren't required to be registered (that is before jan 1, 2014)? Are you somehow required to show proof that you can legally own each long gun in your possesion?

This seems sort of scary as it implies anyone could bring a long gun into the state without going through the legal channels, right?
Other than 'assault weapons', there is no 'illegally'.

It's the same thing that keeps you from cheating on your taxes or shoplifting or mugging people - one presumes a 'moral sense'.

As to your question, no - are you required to prove ownership of your shoes? See the wiki article -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Fi...are_registered
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:20 AM
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Ah, that's some interesting info. I did some reading in the wiki and it's super helpful. This thread has helped me understand some of the items I was unclear about. Thanks.

Time to start calling some FFLs to see if they can do a PPT for me...
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