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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capybara View Post
People keep telling that this isn't entrapment but the DOJ allowing it to be sold in this state still strikes me as entrapment, especially with the person who buys and uses it not living on Calguns like we do, who know not to use it in California. Very fascist tactics.
DOJ BoF enforcement is generally limited to direct firearms-related matters (Joe's Guns selling under the table, illegal guns being sold, yadayada).

If DOJ BoF were 'sensitive' to this issue they'd prob just refer to local cops.
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  #42  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:04 PM
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I thought "Tannerite" was a tanning salon.
  #43  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:11 PM
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Uh oh... So at the Ventura gun show there was a company that sold exploding targets which I think are tannerite, I got a pack of the small ones to test out. So are these illegal or is it only illegal to make your own?
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  #44  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:11 PM
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Its legal to have un mixed. Its sold in CA. so in other words you cant have it mixed in the car or at home. If you are at a range mix it there and you should be fine. That what i was told by my local police. Anyone fined something different let me know.
  #45  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:12 PM
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Something different?

Check the OP.
  #46  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:13 PM
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Originally Posted by guns4funca View Post
Its legal to have un mixed. Its sold in CA. so in other words you cant have it mixed in the car or at home. If you are at a range mix it there and you should be fine. That what i was told by my local police. Anyone fined something different let me know.
Ok, the original post in this thread is there 'just to let you know', some people get arrested for using Tannerite in California.
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  #47  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Another Tannerite felony arrest in SoCal.

Don't want to give out any further details/locale, but "you've been warned" (again).

I'm sure the DA will be tickled pink by some bright boy claiming "it didn't release heat"
(or whatever other nonsense) and drop the case. (Yeah, right.)

I'd expect to see more of this. Don't put your gunrights at risk.
Bill, why not be a real man and return my phone calls and emails?
If someone is charged with using our product, and you know about it, I would hope for the sake of humanity that you would forward them to me and my team of lawyers who operate in CA as well as all 50 states. Unless there is some hidden agenda you have that would prevent you from referring them to us.
For the record, the last person charged in CA for starting a fire wasn't using Tannerite, but another infringer's brand. Regardless, he was on private property so we're representing him since he is not guilty of what he was charged with.
Ever notice that we have been selling, and people have been using Tannerite legally in CA for the last 20 years and ZERO issues until infringers started making incendiary targets? Bingo. It's because Tannerite, as it's patented is not illegal in California per the AG's office until they pass a law against it, as long as it's used as PRESCRIBED for sporting use as a shot-indicator.
If you truly care about gun rights and sporting rights, you would/should contact me with information on the gent who you say is charged, and we will help, as always, with the legal issues. If he was blowing up micro-waves or TV's on public property, then it's a different story, but we stand behind anyone using our product in a legal manner. If nothing else, have him contact us direct, toll free at 877-744-1406 or via email at Daniel@tannerite.com or snail mail at :
Tannerite Sports LLC
Dan J. Tanner
36366 Valley Rd
Pleasant Hill OR 97455

Cordially,
Dan J. Tanner *(who's life is an open book and fears nothing)
  #48  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickofSoCal View Post
So, how are the model rocket hobbyists that make their own motors staying out of jail!?!?
Most of the model rocket folks get permits and licensing.
  #49  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:18 PM
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Thanks for the heads up Bill! Not that I would know what it is other than seeing it in FPSRussia YouTube videos. But it helps to stay up to date on this.
  #50  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:24 PM
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As soon as the prosecution shows the jury the videos of people blowing up cars and tvs with the stuff it's all but a guaranteed conviction.
  #51  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms View Post
Will Mr. Tanner be coming in to explain how this happened?

What was the disposition on that other case not so long ago?
The fellow who started a fire wasn't using Tannerite, but we are representing him nonetheless since he isn't guilty of what he was charged with. It's the ethical thing to do. Why let someone get nailed for a charge that they aren't guilty for, especially when they "Thought" it was real "Tannerite". On top of 12 hour days at work, I make time to take care of people.
Take a gander at this (for those who think that the no-heat theory is a myth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXyDW0hbJ9Y
  #52  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:25 PM
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Dan Tanner:

Are you stating, on behalf of yourself and as an authorized representative of your corporation, that, as consideration for the purchase of your product (Tannerite), you and Tannerite Sports LLC will pay any and all legal costs associated with the use of your product on private property as a shot-indicator?
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Last edited by Tincon; 02-27-2013 at 2:43 PM..
  #53  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:27 PM
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Now I'm confused - is it legal or not?

What does "used as a shot marker" mean?

Does it matter whether the user is on public or private land?
  #54  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TanneriteSportsLLC View Post
Bill, why not be a real man and return my phone calls and emails?
If someone is charged with using our product, and you know about it, I would hope for the sake of humanity that you would forward them to me and my team of lawyers who operate in CA as well as all 50 states. Unless there is some hidden agenda you have that would prevent you from referring them to us.
For the record, the last person charged in CA for starting a fire wasn't using Tannerite, but another infringer's brand. Regardless, he was on private property so we're representing him since he is not guilty of what he was charged with.
Ever notice that we have been selling, and people have been using Tannerite legally in CA for the last 20 years and ZERO issues until infringers started making incendiary targets? Bingo. It's because Tannerite, as it's patented is not illegal in California per the AG's office until they pass a law against it, as long as it's used as PRESCRIBED for sporting use as a shot-indicator.
If you truly care about gun rights and sporting rights, you would/should contact me with information on the gent who you say is charged, and we will help, as always, with the legal issues. If he was blowing up micro-waves or TV's on public property, then it's a different story, but we stand behind anyone using our product in a legal manner. If nothing else, have him contact us direct, toll free at 877-744-1406 or via email at Daniel@tannerite.com or snail mail at :
Tannerite Sports LLC
Dan J. Tanner
36366 Valley Rd
Pleasant Hill OR 97455

Cordially,
Dan J. Tanner *(who's life is an open book and fears nothing)
Had a good time using it last week. Me and the wife were shooting 500 yards. Thanks guys.
  #55  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:31 PM
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Was He wearing a Rag on his head...?




Benny
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  #56  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cr1ms0njyhad View Post
As a Tripoli member who does Experimental Rocket builds, I'll field that one. A rocket motor, whether using BP, Sugar Rockets, or APCP propellant is not explosive, so it is legal in CA. The only thing we have to abide by is getting FAA clearance for a launch event when launching any rocket that exceeds 5000ft apogee.

I strongly emphasize MOTOR, by the way. Because a pipe with two end caps filled BP would obviously explode. A motor is open a both ends: The nozzle on one end and a parachute deployment package at the other end.
I donít know if I would want to use a BP rocket in California. Nozzle cracks or collapse, bingo you now have an exploding device. Some over zealous LEO see this; they now have a person making IEDís.
  #57  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TanneriteSportsLLC View Post
Bill, why not be a real man and return my phone calls and emails?
I have only received 1 email from you years ago, to which I replied.

Admittedly I could have missed some - life in 2010 was a bit busy as my GF got sick and died.

I have received ZERO phone calls or voicemails. Nor has CGF and I would have heard about that.


Quote:
If someone is charged with using our product, and you know about it, I would hope for the sake of humanity that you would forward them to me and my team of lawyers who operate in CA as well as all 50 states. Unless there is some hidden agenda you have that would prevent you from referring them to us.
I have zero hidden agenda other than keeping folks nonfelons and retaining their gunrights

Losing gunrights for toy bang-bangs is just stupid.

Hell, I'd like to play with it, but I'll wait till I'm outta CA.

Seeing what CA DD law is and how broad it is and combined with intent to 'go boom' of many purchasers, and combined with recent public statement by Riverside Sheriff's office on TV...

I myself would NOT refer the individual directly to you because

(1) you are not a criminal defense attorney;

(2) I am unclear on the quality of your attorneys;

(3) I know REALLY REALLY GOOD Ca. attorneys familiar with these matters;

(4) you may be conflicted with the individual where his defense could be compromised vs. your own protection/
liability (or vice versa); that runs a very, very real risk of "cross pollination", so to speak.


Now, given that we have a fresh case here, I would be MORE THAN GLAD to let the lawyer know you want to talk to him once full engagement occurs between the defendant and him/her. (Calguns Foundation will NOT represent/defend Tannerite cases; we do real 2A stuff.)

In fact, I sure as hell CAN BET HE WILL WANNA TALK TO YOU about your marketing, etc. Poor marketing & confusing advertising and yelling "BATF legal" all over without mention of state-level concerns in various states may well somehow help mitigate criminal matters.

Quote:
For the record, the last person charged in CA for starting a fire wasn't using Tannerite, but another infringer's brand. Regardless, he was on private property so we're representing him since he is not guilty of what he was charged with.
OK, you slid by on that one.

The original individual I know was busted in 2005ish timeframe for real live Tannerite. It took almost $20K to fight to get the felony down to a misdemeanor and 18 month firearms prohibition. I wanted the individual to contact you (possibly via lawyer) and seek remuneration for legal fees or begin litigating but he wants nothing to do with it and wants to close the books on that past trouble.

Quote:
Ever notice that we have been selling, and people have been using Tannerite legally in CA for the last 20 years and ZERO issues until infringers started making incendiary targets? Bingo.
Those are nice assumptions... but the issues of increased drama also correlate very well with a much looser past CA legal
environoment w/regard to firearms and other thingies-that-go-boom vs. a post-9/11 and far more antigun California.


Quote:
]It's because Tannerite, as it's patented is not illegal in California per the AG's office until they pass a law against it, as long as it's used as PRESCRIBED for sporting use as a shot-indicator.
You call it a shot indicator. I call it a binary explosive.

I can call C4 a bucket of crap because it has nitrates. Don't think that'll fly.

Regardless of you 'instructions' the common use for this is to make jugs of this stuff go 'boom' out in the desert. Convincing a judge and jury that something that goes boom and that has heat and gas expansion is not an explosive is a work of magic more than lawyering.

Now, if you want to hide behind the "head-shop crack pipe exemption" that you sell for one limited legal use only while 99% of your customers make things that go boom, fine...

The ONLY acceptable outcome of Tannerite cases is if
1. charges dropped, or
2. goes to trial, no conviction
3. ...and... Factual Finding of Innocence
4. refund of any bail money

If you want to pay for the individual's highly competent attorney or at least help defray some costs, that would be great.

I will ensure the attorney contacts you - but again, I'm sure he'll want all your sales material, writings from CA agencies, etc.
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Last edited by bwiese; 02-27-2013 at 3:01 PM..
  #58  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:52 PM
TanneriteSportsLLC TanneriteSportsLLC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tincon View Post
Dan Tanner:

Are you stating, on behalf of yourself and as an authorized representative of your corporation, that, as consideration for the purchase of your product (Tannerite), you and Tannerite Sports LLC will pay any all all legal costs associated with the use of your product on private property as a shot-indicator?
Bingo.
Always have and always will.
As stated, the problem we've had in the last four years is patent infringers making products that are incendiary. NEVER has their been a problem in CA until this BS started happening. But to answer your question directly, yes, we pay for our lawyers (who specialize in explosive/pyrotechnic law) to represent customers who are falsely charged with our products, and at times, infringer's products....which my accountant says is ridiculous. I was forwarded this thread by a member and decided to create an account, even though I work from dark til dark and sometimes longer hours. Please note: I can not monitor this forum day to day. I don't even have time to get on face book but once per month. So please, if someone has something important to say, shoot it to me direct. My information is public and I even offer my private cell.
Don't make false claims about our company on a California site that I do NOT monitor. That is simply not fair or righteous. I'm available, again, at
877-744-1406
Tannerite Sports LLC
Dan J. Tanner
36366 Valley Rd
Pleasant Hill OR 97455
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXyDW0hbJ9Y
(Andy Tran's Video)
  #59  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elSquid View Post
You can make a set of nunchucks with two pieces of wood and a short length of cord, and that is illegal too...-- Michael
whaaaa? is there is definitive definition for "short", or, is my jump rope illegal now?
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  #60  
Old 02-27-2013, 2:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrist View Post
As soon as the prosecution shows the jury the videos of people blowing up cars and tvs with the stuff it's all but a guaranteed conviction.
Bingo. Just like the SlideFire stock crap.

California bans dry-ice bombs (C02+ water) too so if they're that persnickety, dudes blowing up stuff in the desert are definitely in trouble.
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  #61  
Old 02-27-2013, 3:01 PM
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First off I'm certain I didn't make any false claims about your company. If you want to insist I did you better ask your counsel about declaratory relief actions in California.

Second, there is a big difference between paying the legal bills of your customers who are arrested for using your product as advertised, and offering to have your counsel "who specialize in explosive/pyrotechnic law" to represent them, apparently in addition to yourself. I don't know if they are licensed in CA, but here we have rules about avoiding the representation of adverse interests. Will you require your customers to give written consent to representation by counsel which primarily has YOUR interests in mind? Does that seem like adequate representation to you?
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Last edited by Tincon; 02-27-2013 at 3:04 PM..
  #62  
Old 02-27-2013, 3:02 PM
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BWO, beautifully put.
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  #63  
Old 02-27-2013, 3:05 PM
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Some years back l I was in Vegas when some Swedes set off a 55 gallon drum of Tannerite all at once. The cops came in droves and had two requests: 1. Let them know because when the 911 calls come in their don't want to freak out; and 2. Let them know because they want to come out and see the awesomeness.
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Old 02-27-2013, 3:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TanneriteSportsLLC View Post

If you truly care about gun rights and sporting rights, you would/should contact me with information on the gent who you say is charged, and we will help, as always, with the legal issues. If he was blowing up micro-waves or TV's on public property, then it's a different story, but we stand behind anyone using our product in a legal manner.

If nothing else, have him contact us direct, toll free at 877-744-1406 or via email at

Daniel@tannerite.com

or snail mail at :

Tannerite Sports LLC
Dan J. Tanner
36366 Valley Rd
Pleasant Hill OR 97455

Cordially,
Dan J. Tanner *(who's life is an open book and fears nothing)
Let's let this be the last word for now.

Today we have learned, re-learned, or have been reminded that some places in California think this product is illegal.

For the foreseeable future, in California, one should treat every purchase of Mr Tanner's product as having a lawyer attached. If one should be arrested in connection with Tannerite, please contact your own lawyer, and have that worthy contact Mr Tanner for the assistance he has offered here.
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