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  #1  
Old 02-25-2013, 2:33 AM
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Default Do you think the Government is playing a hand with our ammo?

Lots of ammo being bought by government agencies...lots of conspiracy theories floating out there too about it...Do you think the high demand for ammo by those agencies are drying up our resources for ammo? Ammo manufacturers are working around the clock to get out their product, and, it seems like the biggest percentage of it is going to fill orders with their government contracts first

Now the big question...do you think it is by design or just an anamoly?

Is all of OUR ammo just ending up in some warehouse collecting spiders?

maybe i'm just being silly at 3:33 am thinking about it

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  #2  
Old 02-25-2013, 4:48 AM
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You listen to alex jones much???
...yeah me too, and c2c.

It's like the orcs in lord of the rings pouring those swords.
Watch the walking dead? What is a pistol without ammo..just another dull axe.
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  #3  
Old 02-25-2013, 5:07 AM
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Nope the problem is the hoarders and butt heads reaping on profits from high resale, yep shooters screwing over other shooters plain and simple.
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Old 02-25-2013, 5:33 AM
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Are gov agencies really buying that much more than they have in the past? When you think about it, they need a lot of ammo for training, qualification, and to carry in their service weapons. Some fairly new orginizations, such as DHS, may not have had much, so need to get stocked up. Just thinking out loud
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Old 02-25-2013, 5:42 AM
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I don't know if the government is hording crap. If they're like everyone else then my guess would be yes.
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Old 02-25-2013, 6:09 AM
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No. Ammo companies cant keep up with demand. They are making 1 billion rounds a week.

You see people everyday on this site showing how much ammo they buy in one trip to the store. Now multiply that by 10 million or more and you will get your answer.

I would be the first to scream "CONSPIRACY" but not this time
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Old 02-25-2013, 6:11 AM
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Components are scarce and more new shooters drives the prices up... Simple supply & demand.
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  #8  
Old 02-25-2013, 6:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 64physhy View Post
Are gov agencies really buying that much more than they have in the past? When you think about it, they need a lot of ammo for training, qualification, and to carry in their service weapons. Some fairly new orginizations, such as DHS, may not have had much, so need to get stocked up. Just thinking out loud
It doesn't take much ammo for officers to qualify 2x a year and have plenty on hand. Not 1 billion + rounds anyway.

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  #9  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:01 AM
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Originally Posted by JDay View Post
It doesn't take much ammo for officers to qualify 2x a year and have plenty on hand. Not 1 billion + rounds anyway.

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With government agency funding, the monies spent on ammunition are budgeted and appropriated though Congress for long term contracts.The govt. isn't getting all its rounds in one lump sum delivery.

Put another way,that's like saying the US military is going to Australia because they bought 249,000 M9s.

As far as the ammo shortage goes, many states have legislative proposals which would make buying ammo a pain in the neck.If I lived in CT right now,I'd be stockpiling ammo before the antis at the state capitol tax the crap out of it.Theres millions of gun owners who collectively have until their state legislatures meet to get whatever guns and ammo they want before its banned.
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  #10  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeaglory View Post
You see people everyday on this site showing how much ammo they buy in one trip to the store. Now multiply that by 10 million or more and you will get your answer.
This! Was at the LGS last week and a guy walked up to the counter and told the clerk: "I want to buy all of your 9mm ammo.". Then he bragged about doing the same thing at 2 other places that week.
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  #11  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:09 AM
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Originally Posted by toby View Post
Nope the problem is the hoarders and butt heads reaping on profits from high resale, yep shooters screwing over other shooters plain and simple.
Yep, this ^^^
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  #12  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:37 AM
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Threats from all fronts are driving it:

5 cent per bullet ammo tax proposals
blanket ban on bulk sales
ban on internet sales
background on sales of more than 100 rounds

I missed out on stocking up back in December when PSA had 50 round boxes for $9.50 a box (19 cents per round). Now when it shows up, 30 cents a round is called a "good deal"...
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  #13  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:52 AM
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  #14  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:02 AM
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Lol CT is proposing a %50 tax on total sales price of ammo
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  #15  
Old 02-25-2013, 9:13 AM
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And this is just the .22LR ammo!

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  #16  
Old 02-25-2013, 9:49 AM
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The truth is no one knows and the people claiming one thing or the other is merely speculation.
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  #17  
Old 02-25-2013, 9:56 AM
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It has be hoarders/panic buying. Why else would 22LR and 7.62x39 also be OOS?

.
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  #18  
Old 02-25-2013, 11:15 AM
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  #19  
Old 02-25-2013, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby View Post
Nope the problem is the hoarders and butt heads those who saw restrictions coming for the last 5-10 years who are reaping on profits from high resale, yep shooters screwing over other shooters plain and simple.


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Originally Posted by X231 View Post
Yep, this ^^^
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Originally Posted by Maltese Falcon View Post
It has be hoarders/panic buying. Why else would 22LR and 7.62x39 also be OOS?
He who hesitates, etc.
Apparently, you missed recent ban's in 1998, 2000 and price increases following Zero's last 2 elections.

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Old 02-25-2013, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby View Post
Nope the problem is the hoarders and butt heads reaping on profits from high resale, yep shooters screwing over other shooters plain and simple.
Toby complaining yet again that he got caught with his pants down and has no ammo
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  #21  
Old 02-25-2013, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDay View Post
It doesn't take much ammo for officers to qualify 2x a year and have plenty on hand. Not 1 billion + rounds anyway.

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There are approximately 800,000 LEO's of various agencies, 20,000 Border Patrol Agents, and 150,000 DHS Agents, plus however many Secret Service, NCIS, etc. So let's just say 1,000,000 total. That would be about 200,000,000 rounds for annual qualifications, plus probably about that many more in training other than annual/semi-annual quals, so about 400,000,000 rounds per year. Ok, if they did, in fact purchase 1 billion, and that doesn't include Military, it is slightly excessive, but not if they are stocking up for a couple years worth. If Military is included, it's not excessive.
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  #22  
Old 02-25-2013, 12:01 PM
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I don't see it. Even rounds not used by the Gov agencies are dried up.
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  #23  
Old 02-25-2013, 12:04 PM
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Ok that just made my day

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Originally Posted by -hanko View Post





He who hesitates, etc.
Apparently, you missed recent ban's in 1998, 2000 and price increases following Zero's last 2 elections.

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Old 02-25-2013, 12:16 PM
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Victor. toby has more ammo than ever needed he is a tad ;brighter than some
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:19 PM
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I just did some more digging around. It looks like DHS alone purchased 1.6 billion rounds, including calibers that are not standard for LE. A lot of them are hollow point. I guess it is fishy.
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Old 02-25-2013, 6:21 PM
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I saw the last Person of Interest where some govt guys shot a rogue operator with hollow points. So yeah there ya go... They had to be under the DHS umbrella and the woman was complaining that they used hollowpoints on her (she was really mad...).
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  #27  
Old 02-26-2013, 8:51 AM
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Here is some good info from Hornady on this subject, note that they say less than 5% of their sales are to govt. entities.


Hornady Addresses Ammo Shortage: We’re working 24/7

2/15/13 | by Daniel Terrill 181 10.9K

Big time ammo company Hornady released a statement Tuesday commenting on the ammo shortage and shed light on some key questions they’ve been asked repeatedly.
The Hornady booth at SHOT Show 2013. This year they introduced “Critical Duty” ammo.

“The current political climate has caused extremely high demand on all shooting industry products, including ours,” Hornady said in the statement. “Empty retail shelves, long backorders, and exaggerated price increases on online auction sites – all fueled by rumors and conjecture – have amplified concerns about the availability of ammunition and firearms-related items.”
The company asked that you, the consumer, not let Internet rumors on the ammo shortage influence or scare you into paying any outrageous prices. And stressed that if information about Hornday’s supply doesn’t come from Hornady, don’t believe it. Here are the rumors they addressed in the statement:

Q: Have you stopped production, or has the government forced you to stop?
A: Not at all.
Q: Did you stop selling bullets so you could only make loaded ammunition?
A: Absolutely not.
Q: Since we can’t find your product you must be selling it all to the government.
A: Nope, less than 5 percent of our sales are to government entities.
Q: Why can’t you make more? Ramp up production? Turn on all the machines?
A: We’ve been steadily growing our production for a long time, especially the last five years. We’ve added presses, lathes, CNC equipment, people and space. Many popular items are produced 24 hours a day. Several hundred Hornady employees work overtime every week to produce as much as safely possible. If there is any question about that – please take a tour of the factory. You’ll be amazed at what you see.

In short, Hornady, like many other ammo and gun makers, are producing as much as they can, which is more than last year and a lot more than the year before that. And like any business they want to make their products available for those who want to buy them and in turn win the sale.
“We appreciate everyone’s understanding and patience,” the company said. “We don’t know when the situation will improve, so please bear with us a little longer.”
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  #28  
Old 02-26-2013, 5:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby View Post
Nope the problem is the hoarders and butt heads reaping on profits from high resale, yep shooters screwing over other shooters plain and simple.
The real problem is people paying too much for ammo.

If there weren't a bunch of idiots willing to pay 3x normal prices for ammo, ammo wouldn't be selling for 3x normal prices. That would mean that people that bought it just to resell it wouldn't make enough money to make it worthwhile.
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Old 02-26-2013, 5:26 PM
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Originally Posted by toby View Post
Nope the problem is the hoarders and butt heads reaping on profits from high resale, yep shooters screwing over other shooters plain and simple.
Yep! Here's some more outrageous nonsense from earlier today. No different than a panic run on the banks.
Ruger Mags

I doubt it's new shooters. This climate won't create new shooters and in many cases is likely eliminating some old shooters. Unless you enjoy spending $100.00+ on 3 rimfire mags and another 50.00/brick to load em'
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Old 02-26-2013, 6:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 64physhy View Post
There are approximately 800,000 LEO's of various agencies, 20,000 Border Patrol Agents, and 150,000 DHS Agents, plus however many Secret Service, NCIS, etc. So let's just say 1,000,000 total. That would be about 200,000,000 rounds for annual qualifications, plus probably about that many more in training other than annual/semi-annual quals, so about 400,000,000 rounds per year. Ok, if they did, in fact purchase 1 billion, and that doesn't include Military, it is slightly excessive, but not if they are stocking up for a couple years worth. If Military is included, it's not excessive.
The DHS has purchased 1.625 billion rounds of ammo over the last 10 months. This is NOT for the military. They have said that they use 15 million rounds for training a year, for every agency within their department. Thats about 108 years worth. Seems a little excessive, considering the fact that most of it is hollow point ammo, so it can't be used by the military.
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Old 02-28-2013, 4:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby View Post
Nope the problem is the hoarders and butt heads reaping on profits from high resale, yep shooters screwing over other shooters plain and simple.
Agree. The hoarders are the culprits. Reload materials and tools are also no where to be found and government does not reload.


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Old 02-28-2013, 4:55 PM
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Fear is driving the market in all firearms related gear.
I was a broken record to those that asked me. "buy it while it's cheap and available". You can lead a horse to water etc.. I feel no pain for those that thought this stuff would be in stable supply for good price. Now what if food availability were the same? Hmmm.


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Old 02-28-2013, 6:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 223andme View Post
The DHS has purchased 1.625 billion rounds of ammo over the last 10 months. This is NOT for the military. They have said that they use 15 million rounds for training a year, for every agency within their department. Thats about 108 years worth. Seems a little excessive, considering the fact that most of it is hollow point ammo, so it can't be used by the military.
Don't forget Obama's little attempt with Georgia Arms a few years back.
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Old 03-01-2013, 8:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 64physhy View Post
Ok, if they did, in fact purchase 1 billion, and that doesn't include Military, it is slightly excessive, but not if they are stocking up for a couple years worth. If Military is included, it's not excessive.
Our military only used about 70,000,000 rounds a year in Iraq. Now tell me the amount DHS is buying isn't excessive.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-.../2921337/posts

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Old 03-01-2013, 4:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowplow View Post
DHS buying up ammo to drive prices up on the rest of the civilians ....and yes their ammo is forbidden for the military per the Geneva convention so it is not wise to wrap up the DHS quantities to include military supply as part of an argument to support them purchasing over 1,000,000,000,000 rounds. Count all those zeros, there are way more than all of our LEO and military entities could use in even 10 years.

Hoarders are only a small sliver of the problem.

By the government, DHS and the military placing orders right now in large quantities, their orders will get filled first, thus buying the political wanks in D.C. time to pass their effing ammo taxes further driving the prices up on civilians.


Wise up.
actually its 2bill now (over last 12 months), they have recently put another 400mill out to tender this year.
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Old 03-01-2013, 4:35 PM
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No,

There's just as much ammo coming into stores as ever.. more in fact.. it's just that it's being bought way faster so it isn't hanging around.

Same with guns.. Guns are coming in.. they just sell so fast.

The whole "tin foil" hat thing is lame..
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Old 03-01-2013, 4:42 PM
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Yes
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Old 03-02-2013, 6:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trenchfoot View Post
This! Was at the LGS last week and a guy walked up to the counter and told the clerk: "I want to buy all of your 9mm ammo.". Then he bragged about doing the same thing at 2 other places that week.
My local BIG 5 has a guy that is known by the manager that buys every round of the popular calibers every Monday when the shipment comes in. My guess it is a lot more than stockpiling, its taking advantage of the situation at hand. I would not be surprised if the buyer has it listed here for resale and the manager is getting a cut in the profits.

This will not stop anytime soon. With new laws and taxes pending people will shoot each other to get the last of the ammo first.

For those of you waiting for the "SHTF" event to happen, wait no longer it already is here.
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Old 03-02-2013, 7:23 PM
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yes da gooberment is playing a hand. They know that what they're doing is hurting the gun owners and also stockpiling ammo for their master plan.......If anybody is in disbelief of a tyrannical gooberment, they must be just as stooooopid as the sheeples themselves...The only thing that makes em' different is that they atleast have a few firearms as to the sheeps owning nothing but kitchen knives and scissors.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 64physhy View Post
Are gov agencies really buying that much more than they have in the past? When you think about it, they need a lot of ammo for training, qualification, and to carry in their service weapons. Some fairly new orginizations, such as DHS, may not have had much, so need to get stocked up. Just thinking out loud
They have bought enough ammo in the past few months to shoot at the rate they did in Iraq for 30 years without buying more.

They have enough ammunition to put two rounds in every single American citizen and half of Mexico.

I say make them burn through some of it before filling any more orders.
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