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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

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  #1  
Old 10-04-2007, 6:34 PM
edittman1 edittman1 is offline
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Default Night vision?

So, I was just looking around and saw this:

http://www.opticsplanet.net/atnarmkpalni.html

Thought it would go real nice on my AR15. It has 4x scope and is made by ATN, which seems like a quality and reputable company.

Will this work out to 100 yards?
Can I toggle the NV off/on?

TIA!
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  #2  
Old 10-04-2007, 6:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edittman1 View Post
So, I was just looking around and saw this:

http://www.opticsplanet.net/atnarmkpalni.html

Thought it would go real nice on my AR15. It has 4x scope and is made by ATN, which seems like a quality and reputable company.

Will this work out to 100 yards?
Can I toggle the NV off/on?

TIA!
I *think* mounting any sort of NV device to a firearm is illegal in CA...at least if it has an infrared illuminator or something like that
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Last edited by Patriot; 10-04-2007 at 6:40 PM..
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  #3  
Old 10-04-2007, 6:46 PM
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Quote:
468. Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of,
conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a
misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand
dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more
than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device
or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm
which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and
electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually
determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime.
This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession
of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United
States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement
officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the
enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the
use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for
scientific research or educational purposes.
"Sniperscope"

Quote:
...new detachable, most powerful in the industry 450mw Infrared Illuminator
Maybe if you can get whoever sells it to detach the illuminator first. Does constructive possession apply to scopes
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  #4  
Old 10-04-2007, 6:55 PM
edittman1 edittman1 is offline
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Good point. I forgot about that... ****ing CA.
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  #5  
Old 10-04-2007, 7:06 PM
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Starlight scopes that use an image intensifier are legal.

Night vision scopes that use any kind of IR illumination aren't.

Unless the law has changed since I last saw it.
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  #6  
Old 10-04-2007, 7:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SemiAutoSam View Post
Starlight scopes that use an image intensifier are legal.
Night vision scopes that use any kind of IR illumination aren't.
Unless the law has changed since I last saw it.
I thought you just could not have the illuminator actually MOUNTED on the gun, but you could hand-hold an illuminator seperately.
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Old 10-04-2007, 7:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I thought you just could not have the illuminator actually MOUNTED on the gun, but you could hand-hold an illuminator seperately.
Yes. Night vision scopes are only illegal if it uses an active infared source attached to the scope or weapon.
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Old 10-04-2007, 7:22 PM
edittman1 edittman1 is offline
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So this is a go, or no-go?
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  #9  
Old 10-04-2007, 7:24 PM
SemiAutoSam SemiAutoSam is offline
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This kind of scope is useless without the IR light sourrce. .

Quote:
Originally Posted by blkA4alb View Post
Yes. Night vision scopes are only illegal if it uses an active infrared source attached to the scope or weapon.
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  #10  
Old 10-05-2007, 6:12 PM
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Snob.
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  #11  
Old 10-05-2007, 6:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edittman1 View Post
Snob.
HUH?

Gen 1 really IS garbage.
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Old 10-05-2007, 6:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edittman1 View Post
Can I toggle the NV off/on?
With the tube turned off, you won't see anything through it.
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  #13  
Old 10-05-2007, 6:17 PM
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Sure how many hands do you have unless you plan to hold the rifle with only one hand and hold the IR light with the other ?

This logistics of this would be a major PITA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I thought you just could not have the illuminator actually MOUNTED on the gun, but you could hand-hold an illuminator separately.
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  #14  
Old 10-05-2007, 6:55 PM
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Interestingly it mentions nothing about thermal scopes. I guess if you can afford one you are above the law. Also, can't you just use NV goggles with a compatible day/night scope? Also why can't you detach the illluminator from the scope and attach it to an accessory rail on the rifle?

Last edited by virulosity; 10-05-2007 at 7:01 PM..
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  #15  
Old 10-05-2007, 7:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SemiAutoSam View Post
Sure how many hands do you have unless you plan to hold the rifle with only one hand and hold the IR light with the other ?
Your spotter holds his NV binoculars and the IR illuminator and gives you the dope.
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  #16  
Old 10-05-2007, 7:29 PM
SemiAutoSam SemiAutoSam is offline
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I was thinking of a one man setup.

Think of it this way also when you use a IR light you give away your position to everyone that has NV and even those that have starlight scopes that do not require an IR source. He knows where you are but since he does not need a IR source you dont know where he is.

My ANPVS4 works better than first gen. and does not require a IR light source.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Your spotter holds his NV binoculars and the IR illuminator and gives you the dope.

Last edited by SemiAutoSam; 10-05-2007 at 7:37 PM..
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  #17  
Old 10-05-2007, 7:30 PM
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Get Gen 3 or nothing at all.
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  #18  
Old 10-05-2007, 7:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SemiAutoSam View Post
I was thinking of a one man setup.
Any shooting one man can do, two men can usually do better.
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  #19  
Old 10-05-2007, 8:16 PM
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I've got an old Military Starlight Scope in my box of goodies... I can't find bateries for it (yet) but I've heard that there are gen 3 upgrade tubes available for it.

Mine was free, so even if its not the best out there It's better than what I had and a good value
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  #20  
Old 10-05-2007, 8:31 PM
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CA laws, really dumb in every sense, passive system ok (harder to detect) active easy to detect illegal. Modern warfare rules if you broadcast or emit anything your dead. Hunting at night is illegal in CA, dont know not a hunter anymore.

Last edited by 4 Brigada; 10-05-2007 at 8:43 PM..
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  #21  
Old 10-06-2007, 3:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 4 Brigada View Post
Hunting at night is illegal in CA, dont know not a hunter anymore.
Depends what and where.
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  #22  
Old 10-06-2007, 5:25 PM
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These "night vision" scopes are image intensifier scopes. They take the small amount of available light, less than what our eye balls can see, and intensify it to make an image our eye balls can see. These don't need any IR illumination because their photosensitivity is in the visible region, just like our eye balls, and you don't need any IR illumination. If you do use IR illumination, you would use near IR illumination to light up the subject, but then our CA laws would make that illegal. As you don't use an IR illuminator, it's perfectly legal.

First Gen use a photocathode that is made up of alkali photoemissive material deposited on the inside of the objective lense. It's not stable over time and will degrade over the years, lasting maybe 3-10 years, depending on how it's used. Second generation devices use the same photocathode material, but have higher gain, or image brightness, than Gen 1 because they use an internal image intensifier device called a microchannel plate. Gen 2 has the same problems associated with Gen 1. Gen 3 is where the real breakthrough came where the photocathode surface is a GaAs thin film with an engineered energy band structure to improve it's photosenitivity over the Gen 1 &2. To those solid state physicists out there, Gen 3 has negative electron affinity. The Gen 3 photocathode material doesn't degrade over time like the Gen 1 &2, but will only fail if the internal vacuum of the phototube fails or the voltage applied induces too high a photocurrent, but that isn't likely because the image intensifier's electronics won't allow you to do this.

The systems made by companies like FLIR systems are not sensitive in the visible light regime. They operate in the long IR if it's for thermal imaging, or near- or mid-IR if they need higher resolution imaging without the need for visible light illumination. These systems typicall use focal plane imaging devices made from InGaAs or other similar materials, and are much more expensive than the relatively low resolution image intensifiers used on rifles.

Last edited by dwtt; 10-06-2007 at 9:18 PM..
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  #23  
Old 10-11-2007, 12:41 AM
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Not really.

Attached is a picture of a tree from the Paladin taken with a cellphone camera. Picture doesn't do the actual scope image justice. It's actually very sharp (cross hairs are crisp, and you can see the leaves blowing in the breeze) and a bit brighter. This is without an IR light source. Tree is 80yds away and illuminated by a very faint street lamp.

Clod

Quote:
Originally Posted by SemiAutoSam View Post
This kind of scope is useless without the IR light sourrce. .
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File Type: jpg paladin.jpg (6.5 KB, 60 views)
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  #24  
Old 10-12-2007, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edittman1 View Post
ATN, which seems like a quality and reputable company.
lol...

ATN. Reputable. In the same sentence even. lmao
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  #25  
Old 10-12-2007, 10:36 PM
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ATN or was that M.

Russian junk, gen 2+ pushed as gen 3. Oh yes I've been the SF warehouse.

Litton, ITT or die!
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  #26  
Old 10-26-2007, 10:10 PM
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The way I read the law, only night vision scopes with magnification that are mounted to a firearm are illegal. A PVS-14 mounted behind an Aimpoint M2, as I have, is perfectly legal. Before you combust, let me state my simple logic for my belief. The law states "Sniperscope means any attachment, device or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic TELESCOPE, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime." The key words is "telescope". A telescope by definition magnifies an image. Hence my set up it complete legal even with a IR illuminator.
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