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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-22-2013, 4:20 AM
vantec08 vantec08 is offline
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Default Perry didnt return empty handed

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/02/21...nia-for-texas/

"Out training division will remain in CA until the legislature outlaws everything."
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  #2  
Old 02-22-2013, 5:56 AM
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I get that things are bad but bailing isn't going this shift opinions. I won't be shopping with them.
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Old 02-22-2013, 6:09 AM
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I will.
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  #4  
Old 02-22-2013, 6:10 AM
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Making such a move is the only reasonable business option for such a business.

Our government is going to be making engaging in any business increasingly unattractive and this is especially true for firearms-related businesses.

If I were starting a business which did not have to be located in California - there is no chance I'd locate here. And if I already had a business in California which did not have to be here, I'd be considering moving elsewhere - irregardless of whether or not it were firearms related.
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Old 02-22-2013, 6:16 AM
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The cost of owning and doing business in California is crazy. For many "bailing out" may be their only option to keep "their" American dream alive. Good for them for moving to Texas and be able to be profitable with out having to give it to Kommiefornia. Happy trails and never look back.
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Old 02-22-2013, 6:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalMik View Post
I get that things are bad but bailing isn't going this shift opinions. I won't be shopping with them.
How far are you willing to go? You going to stay if they outlaw semi-autos? You going to stay if they start taxing ammo sales? How about another tax hike???

Sorry - they made the best decision for THEM. You wont buy from them? Thats ok - pretty soon this state wont allow you to buy from anyone.
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The more I am on CalGuns the more I see why government keeps certain people from owning firearms.
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Old 02-22-2013, 7:25 AM
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Originally Posted by NorCalMik View Post
I get that things are bad but bailing isn't going this shift opinions. I won't be shopping with them.
You need to understand that relocating an entire business is a HUGE expense. Once you do, you will realize that companies do not undertake such expenses unless that is in the best interest of the long term life of the company. California is doing its level best to make the state as unfriendly to businesses as possible, and it's driving folks out. The problem is that the state then increases fees and regs on the ones that stay (or hte taxpayers directly) to make up for the lost revenue.
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Old 02-22-2013, 7:35 AM
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Never heard of Shield Tactical.... but it sounds like a good move for them.
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Old 02-22-2013, 8:05 AM
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Sad for California, and WHY don't our elected officials care?

Guess they will tax our ammunition to make up for the loss
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Old 02-22-2013, 8:08 AM
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Originally Posted by NorCalMik View Post
I get that things are bad but bailing isn't going this shift opinions. I won't be shopping with them.
While I have never had issues with boycotting companies that mistreat their customers (Sony, Apple), I can't hold it against a company that moves out of a state that is not only absolutely anti-business, but even more vehemently anti-their particular business.

I'm astounded that there is ANY business left in CA. If it wasn't for the climate and the state's geography, it would be a completely different story here in the PRK.
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Old 02-22-2013, 8:11 AM
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Good for them, if enough businesses (not just firearm related) do the same, it will start to hurt...money talks
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  #12  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:16 AM
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Originally Posted by bill_k_lopez View Post
How far are you willing to go? You going to stay if they outlaw semi-autos? You going to stay if they start taxing ammo sales? How about another tax hike???

Sorry - they made the best decision for THEM. You wont buy from them? Thats ok - pretty soon this state wont allow you to buy from anyone.
I only have a few options in my line of work and the others are worst than here. I will buy a second home in Nevada (been saving for a Tahoe/Incline House) before I'd consider relocating.

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Originally Posted by A-J View Post
You need to understand that relocating an entire business is a HUGE expense. Once you do, you will realize that companies do not undertake such expenses unless that is in the best interest of the long term life of the company. California is doing its level best to make the state as unfriendly to businesses as possible, and it's driving folks out. The problem is that the state then increases fees and regs on the ones that stay (or hte taxpayers directly) to make up for the lost revenue.
This issue is fairly complex and having run a company in California I know the pressures. That said there are a lot of factors beyond taxation and regulation that come into play, of course this varies between every sector and every business.

As a native Californian, I'm not willing to give up the fight. I'm not willing to go away silently because my POV is not prevailing politically.

You don't have to agree with my decision but I will support my local businesses first and that's a decision I make.
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  #13  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:17 AM
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All that sound and fury yielded Perry ONE business?

Makes me think TX is not as tickety-boo as ol' Good Hair would have us believe...

CDFingers
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Old 02-22-2013, 8:19 AM
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I don't blame them. Makes business sense. Lower taxes in Texas.
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Old 02-22-2013, 8:19 AM
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Shiner, TX? Dont they know its hard to pack and ship boxes when youre hammered?
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Old 02-22-2013, 8:20 AM
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I will stand and fight, I hope my fellow Calgunners will stand next to me when the time comes.
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Old 02-22-2013, 8:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalMik View Post
I get that things are bad but bailing isn't going this shift opinions. I won't be shopping with them.
Staying in CA is perilous enough for an individual gun-owning citizen, can you imagine what relatively smallish gun businesses would have to endure?

While I would rather they have stayed, they have to remain fiscally responsible to their business' survival. So I don't hold the move against them but I will continue support of local gun shops as much as possible also.
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  #18  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Pete View Post
Sad for California, and WHY don't our elected officials care?
Because they hate business. They hate profits and hard work and success and an individual being able to make it. They hate the idea that anyone might do better than anyone else, or that anyone might accomplish something without the benevolent, guiding hand of government there. Oh, and because they'd cheerfully watch every single firearms-related business leave California, regardless of the cost... they truly believe that the lost jobs would be more than made up for by a crime-free Utopia, and that the lost tax revenue can be made up by simply taxing everyone else more.
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  #19  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:48 AM
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I will stand and fight, I hope my fellow Calgunners will stand next to me when the time comes.
What "fight"? When is "the time"? In case you haven't noticed, regular working law-abiding tax-paying people who believe in the Constitution have been steadily losing for decades now. "The time to fight" was 40 years ago.

It won't take much at all to send me out of this state again. Not much at all.
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Old 02-22-2013, 9:38 AM
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The state officials and politicians in California do not want businesses here in this state. Any sort of profitable organization is counter productive to the states elected officals agenda.

Organizations such as CARB, California Tax Comission, Department of food and agriculture..... etc are killing the economic drive in California. Each year new laws, ordances and taxes are passed to make it harder and harder for businesses to survive and make a profit.

Shield Tactical isn't relocating for better climate or marketing options. They are relocating for survival. In light of everything else its one of a very few options that makes sense. For the other businesses that continue to stay behind they face more regulations, restrictions, laws, bans, etc. How much longer will other organizations stay profitable at this rate.
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Old 02-22-2013, 1:05 PM
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As a native Californian, I'm not willing to give up the fight. I'm not willing to go away silently because my POV is not prevailing politically.
As a native Californian myself I can tell you - we lost the fight a long time ago. This state, our rights - its a patient whose been on life support and just waiting for the insurance company to pull the plug. And by the way WE are irrelevant - or didn't you notice that the Dems have a super majority here?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeep7081
The more I am on CalGuns the more I see why government keeps certain people from owning firearms.
[/size]

Last edited by bill_k_lopez; 02-22-2013 at 1:20 PM..
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  #22  
Old 02-22-2013, 1:28 PM
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Hmm...didn't they say they would move their business to TX but keep their training division in CA - so in your mind you would not support that business model, but to suit your own needs you'd buy a second house in Nevada - and thats all cool?? Don't see the benefit of just having a second house somewhere - you'd still have to buy and sell guns as a Californian, as its your primary residence that dictates where you get your DL.
Tahoe was always the plan for a vacation home, now the Nevada side has an additional plus in that I can store my firearms if needed without worrying about violating CA state law.

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Originally Posted by bill_k_lopez View Post
As a native Californian myself I can tell you - we lost the fight a long time ago. This state, our rights - its a patient whose been on life support and just waiting for the insurance company to pull the plug.
So you've given up? Not going to write letters, vote, petition your government?

Look there's a lot to criticize about any government but things aren't as bleak as CEO magazine or Rick Perry make them out to be. This is still a great place to live, imo, and I'm not willing to give up on this state. Sorry if you have.

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Originally Posted by bill_k_lopez View Post
Your thinking is completely misguided. The "products" you purchase aren't manufactured here in good ol' CA, many of the distributors that sell to your favorite LGS aren't here in CA either - so the idea that you're doing something good by "supporting local" (and we both know that if local doesn't have it, you're likely to not go without it over buying from elsewhere) is a complete fallacy, or maybe you've just fooled yourself into thinking it isn't.
There are a lot of products still made in state but tis the nature of a global economy. I'd still rather buy from a local brick and mortar in town. Will that stop me from buying elsewhere if I need something, probably not but I'm not going to finance someone who gave up on a cause I still think is worth fighting.

Look business is business and these decisions get made. Doesn't mean I'm going to be bombastic and celebrate companies leaving my beloved home state and it doesn't mean I support their decision. I'd prefer they put those moving costs into action here to effectuate change. You don't have to agree or even argue with me, it's just how I see things. I see them abandoning the cause and I'm only one person so why worry about me, I'm sure some Texans will pick up any financial support I would have given them.
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Old 02-22-2013, 1:47 PM
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Im not going to say who because they aren't putting it out yet but a local shop to me is moving to Arizona and its in the works.

CA is a wasteland and is going the way of Detroit. Another 10 years its gonna be a scene from "I Am Legend"

Im out in June to Utah. This place is a crap hole. The Illegals and liberals destroyed it.
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Old 02-22-2013, 1:55 PM
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I would be very concerned if I were a texan and my gov was shopping for Californians.

Case in point: colorado.
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Old 02-22-2013, 1:57 PM
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California needs a miracle for it be saved. The only thing I can think of is for the southern counties, excluding Santa Barbra and LA County, to split up from the rest of California and whoever wants to join in to form their own liberty leaning State. It's been proposed before, I wish it were a reality. California is just too damn big, with immigrants flooding the state and with the crackpots in the North voting to take the rights away from the minority. Which is something our founders were against completely. Right now, gun owners, conservatives, and libertarians are the oppressed minority in California. These people have been running this state to the ground since the late 70s. Such a shame -- California was once a desirable place that everyone wanted to live in, not anymore, seems to be a nightmare for any sane person...
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Old 02-22-2013, 2:02 PM
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I would be very concerned if I were a texan and my gov was shopping for Californians.

Case in point: colorado.
Texas has a lot of experience dealing with it though. They started Austin as a test case to learn how to control it.
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Old 02-22-2013, 2:08 PM
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California has the most liberal democrats and most conservative republicans but imo, over the next 6-8 years with open primaries I anticipate a more moderated legislature.

We've been cast off as a failed state for decades (energy crisis, .com bubble, housing bubble, ect...) but state continues to come back and innovation continues to happen here. Most of this nation's patents and start-up funding is spent here.

The fight is not over.
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Old 02-22-2013, 2:12 PM
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I'm all for standing and fighting, but if we don't stop (and reverse) the trend, I'm going to "bail out." The original AWB was bad enough; at least I got to keep what I had and could get new bullet-buttoned stuff. Now, the powers that be seem all too willing to put an end to that.

I'm not in a financial position to leave this state just yet. But I won't spend my life tilting at windmills; eventually, I'll just go somewhere else where I can enjoy my freedoms. At least California will be denied my contribution to the economy.
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Old 02-22-2013, 2:43 PM
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I understand Valero Oil, is in talks of pulling out of CA. too. Cost of doing business here is too much.

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Old 02-22-2013, 2:50 PM
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I understand Valero Oil, is in talks of pulling out of CA. too. Cost of doing business here is too much.

Kyle
They bought it in 2000 and spent a lot of money to upgrade it. But as seen when BP sold their refinery earlier this fall, another major will come in to replace them. Even as nothing more than a terminal the infrastructure in incredibly valuable and useful, even in California.
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Old 02-22-2013, 3:25 PM
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I get that things are bad but bailing isn't going this shift opinions. I won't be shopping with them.
While I used to agree with you, we're at an interesting point in this fight. One where lines are being drawn and not in the sand, rather around certain states. My wife and are didn't think we'd ever leave California, but we're realizing now that its not about fighting here anymore, its about being in friendly territory.
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Old 02-22-2013, 4:52 PM
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While I used to agree with you, we're at an interesting point in this fight. One where lines are being drawn and not in the sand, rather around certain states. My wife and are didn't think we'd ever leave California, but we're realizing now that its not about fighting here anymore, its about being in friendly territory.
Especially for the retired who dont have another lifetime left to fight. Many of them simply want to be left alone to pursue hobbies they enjoy without swat raids on their RVs or homes. Ok, so Perry only picked up one company that publicly announced their decisions to move to Texas. As mentioned, moving a company, especially plant and employees, is complicated as hell -- but dont think for a minute the seed hasnt been planted.
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Old 02-22-2013, 5:33 PM
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No, only empty-headed, same's he came here.
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Old 02-22-2013, 5:40 PM
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Im not going to say who because they aren't putting it out yet but a local shop to me is moving to Arizona and its in the works.

CA is a wasteland and is going the way of Detroit. Another 10 years its gonna be a scene from "I Am Legend"

Im out in June to Utah. This place is a crap hole. The Illegals and liberals destroyed it.
Sad funny I know a couple people who fled here from detroit... One surprised me with a put down on socialists so they probably are not 'part of the problem' so to speak... they'll probably have to flee a second state for the same reasons as the first...

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Old 02-22-2013, 5:48 PM
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I don't think there's a single business in California that does not purposefully violate regulatory and tax law in order to survive in this state.
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Old 02-22-2013, 7:17 PM
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Companies don't make announcements when they leave CA. They pack up and leave in the middle of the night. There is no financial benefit in rubbing it in to the politicians for a business. After all, they will still have customers in CA. Those that do announce, do so by law, if they have over a certain number of employees.
Last week at the farm show in Tulare, Texas had a large tent with restricted access only for invitees of potential business relocations. I spent some time outside there talking with the Texans and watching people come and go. I couldn't get in because my business doesn't qualify for relocation(real estate based).

But the place was packed with potential clients.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:29 PM
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What "fight"? When is "the time"? In case you haven't noticed, regular working law-abiding tax-paying people who believe in the Constitution have been steadily losing for decades now. "The time to fight" was 40 years ago.
I agree, with sadness.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:33 PM
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I support any successful business, firearms or not, leaving this state and helping bolster Texas.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:10 PM
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What "fight"? When is "the time"? In case you haven't noticed, regular working law-abiding tax-paying people who believe in the Constitution have been steadily losing for decades now. "The time to fight" was 40 years ago.

It won't take much at all to send me out of this state again. Not much at all.
exaclty
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.....In fact, the majority of people don't want freedom and wouldn't know what to do with it even if they had it.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:26 PM
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Perry came to pitch his state as a good place for business. He was not here to close the deal, and almost every company that leaves will give some bull**** excuse about why they are leaving, and not the truth.

But leaving California for a "Free State" is like running to the stern of the Titanic. If California crushes the 2A then every other state will eventually do the same thing.
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