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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

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  #1  
Old 02-21-2013, 7:40 PM
the_dude8541 the_dude8541 is offline
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Default Battle Rifle Optic Choice?

What would be an ideal choice for an AR battle rifle optic for a budget around $400.
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  #2  
Old 02-21-2013, 7:40 PM
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Aimpoint Pro or EOtech
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  #3  
Old 02-21-2013, 7:56 PM
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id go with an aimpoint pro at that price
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Old 02-21-2013, 7:59 PM
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Aimpoint Pro

On Sale
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  #5  
Old 02-21-2013, 8:10 PM
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Same on the aimpoint, but i would also consider a 1-4x24 variable scope. Nikon and Burris has the 1-4 variables under the $400 range.
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  #6  
Old 02-21-2013, 8:21 PM
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Thanks all
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  #7  
Old 02-21-2013, 8:22 PM
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I dunno if anything less costly than an ACOG is really, really rugged and will take the same beating and keep on ticking. When you want a real rattle battle rifle, you want something that can be used as a club and still hold zero. The ACOG and iron sights like the standard A2 carry handle and FSB with ears are all that fit that bill IMHO.
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Old 02-21-2013, 8:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffLinder View Post
I dunno if anything less costly than an ACOG is really, really rugged and will take the same beating and keep on ticking. When you want a real rattle battle rifle, you want something that can be used as a club and still hold zero. The ACOG and iron sights like the standard A2 carry handle and FSB with ears are all that fit that bill IMHO.
Like this?

IMG_4631.jpg
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  #9  
Old 02-21-2013, 8:41 PM
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Like this?
Best of both worlds :-)

The ACOG was originally made to mount that way, pre-flat top, kinda like Gawd and Eugene Stoner intended
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  #10  
Old 02-22-2013, 5:19 AM
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Eotech = faster CQB sight acquisition and more useful reticle for shooting various distances

Aimpoint = stays on for years at a time

Burris TAC30 = better for longer range shooting with variable 1-4x magnification and BDC reticle
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  #11  
Old 02-22-2013, 5:23 AM
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Also keep in mind Aimpoint spends alot on marketing so the lay shooter will favor them for that reason. Eotech doesn't do marketing because they don't need to. They have by far the largest military contract.
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Old 02-22-2013, 6:40 AM
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While in Iraq I was operating mostly in a urban enviroment (Baqubah) and prefered the EOTech to the Aimpoints we were issued (I had my own). The "dime o' death" was fast to get on target and easy to keep on target. It was also a lot easier to shoot with both opens open with, and worked with my NODS.

When we did roll to outside the city, I had access to an M-14 with a Trijicon ACOG (but you aren't getting that for your price point), but wouldn't have wanted to try CQB with it.
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  #13  
Old 02-22-2013, 6:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Hated View Post
Eotech = faster CQB sight acquisition and more useful reticle for shooting various distances
^+1^
Get this then if you want distance, throw the magnifier behind it. Get the EOTech with the BDC that's rated for your caliber. You won't regret it, I haven't!!
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  #14  
Old 02-22-2013, 4:04 PM
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Im debating what to do myself.
I'm looking at Vortex Strikefire with swing mounted magnifier OR..
OR...
Viper PST Rifle scope and 45 Deg. off set red dot combo.
Ive heard good things and good reviews on Vortex (Good glass for less $) but not quite the fit and finish like Aimpoint.
But what do I know.
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  #15  
Old 02-22-2013, 5:02 PM
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i love my acog with ta31-rmr on a larue tac mount quick release and use my irons
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  #16  
Old 02-22-2013, 6:06 PM
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aimpoint pro huh... on a battle rifle....any proof the pro is up to that? Considering a CompM2 or 3 CANNOT match the strength and ruggedness as an M4 or T1... I don't think a Pro would.

So if you are saying an Aimpoint Pro is fit for a battle rifle, then in the $400 range a PA, EoTech, Vortex, CMore CTAC, mepro, Buris, Tasco, Bushnell, Hi-Lux, Leupold, are too.

Just cuz it says Aimpoint, doesnt mean its high end.
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  #17  
Old 02-22-2013, 7:05 PM
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Most of the optics people buy will never be abused or be mistreated to the point of failure. It is funny how some people insist on buying super high end 'battle tested' gear when the stuff ends up in a safe and sees daylight (the range) a few times a year.

I've bought and used Eotech, Aimpoint, Vortex, Lucid, Primary Arms, etc. and all of it works fine and holds zero under normal use.
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  #18  
Old 02-22-2013, 7:07 PM
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Aimpoint
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  #19  
Old 02-22-2013, 7:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
Most of the optics people buy will never be abused or be mistreated to the point of failure. It is funny how some people insist on buying super high end 'battle tested' gear when the stuff ends up in a safe and sees daylight (the range) a few times a year.

Heh, at least they will look good in a safe. Aimpoint and Eotech would work fine. The fine Servicemen/women of this great nation who have been through the sand box have used them and can attest to that.

But then again, some of those who have never been there will tell you that you will absolutely need a $50,000,000,000,000 USD M4 with a $14,000,000,000,000 USD optic on it.
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  #20  
Old 02-23-2013, 6:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Defense View Post
Heh, at least they will look good in a safe. Aimpoint and Eotech would work fine. The fine Servicemen/women of this great nation who have been through the sand box have used them and can attest to that.

But then again, some of those who have never been there will tell you that you will absolutely need a $50,000,000,000,000 USD M4 with a $14,000,000,000,000 USD optic on it.
No we can not. I don't know what Military you are talking about, but when I was in I was never issued an Aimpoint Pro.

Just to be clear;
1- My ACOG screws always came loose. Even when tightened to the proper torque. I ended up using a paste on the threads that hardened and wouldn't allow the scope to be removed without a wrench.
2- I went through two Aimpoints. Both dots shifted to the far right after the rifle was dropped on cement.
3- My Trijicon Reflex was hard to see and got washed out in bright sun while I was standing in shade.

My non-Military experience;
I loved my EOTech 512 Rev F. No real issues that EOTech were responsible for.
I loved my C-More ATAC. That was probably the best Red Dot I have EVER used...period. If a person doesnt want a fixed BUIS, then they should get a all aluminum Railway model with a flip-up rear BUIS of their choice.

I could go on, but I think the point is made. I am currently using a Leupold VX-R that has a lifetime warranty. Made in the US and known worldwide as the gold standard to manufacture by. In fact Leupold is the company who writes the industries ISOs, everyone follows what they do....everyone.

Last edited by dieselpower; 02-23-2013 at 6:05 AM..
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  #21  
Old 02-23-2013, 6:23 AM
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I would like to see an Acog with the new PA reticule in it. But until then check out their 5x that will be coming.

Last edited by Mikelarry; 02-23-2013 at 8:52 AM..
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  #22  
Old 02-23-2013, 9:00 AM
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It depends,if your looking at CQB then Eotec,Aimpoint and others Cowitnessed with irons would be ideal.
If your looking at medium range first then CQB second then Acog with red dot/ irons on 45.If on budget our PA3X would work great. And like Mike mentioned our 5x and others coming out with (ACSS 5.56) reticule would be Ideal.

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  #23  
Old 02-23-2013, 1:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
Most of the optics people buy will never be abused or be mistreated to the point of failure. It is funny how some people insist on buying super high end 'battle tested' gear when the stuff ends up in a safe and sees daylight (the range) a few times a year.

I've bought and used Eotech, Aimpoint, Vortex, Lucid, Primary Arms, etc. and all of it works fine and holds zero under normal use.
Some people plan for best case scenarios, some people plan for worst case scenarios

You argue for the former, i would suggest the latter
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  #24  
Old 03-04-2013, 4:14 PM
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Keep in mind $400 budget.....Doesn't that take him beyond most of the variable scopes, and ACOGS? Not to mention the tier one AIMPOINTS....
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  #25  
Old 03-04-2013, 4:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big bug View Post
Keep in mind $400 budget.....Doesn't that take him beyond most of the variable scopes, and ACOGS? Not to mention the tier one AIMPOINTS....
Not really. With mount yes, but he can get Vortex, Leupold, Bushnell, PA EOTech and compM2 & 3 Aimpoints for $400.
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  #26  
Old 03-06-2013, 7:18 PM
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Optics are to a rifle as speakers are to a sound system. Don’t skimp.

My conclusion for the M4 (16”) was to 1st decide if I wanted magnification. If not then EOTech or Aimpoint. For magnification then a Leupold MRT 1.5-4 or comparable, or a fixed ACOG. In the end I went for a CompM4. Found the right sale at Brownells and couldn’t be happier.

If I only had $400 I’d look for a used CompM2 or M3.
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  #27  
Old 03-07-2013, 2:22 AM
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Vortex StrikeFire and Bushnell Trophy 1x32 are basic low end CQB optics. No need to spend $600 on a safe queen unless your rich.
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Last edited by negolien; 03-07-2013 at 7:37 AM..
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Old 03-07-2013, 5:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by negolien View Post
Vortex StrikeFire and Bushnell Trophy 1x32 are basic low end CQB optics. No need to spend $600 on a sfae queen unless your rich.
Who said anything about a safe queen? Are you saying the OP is going to buy this firearm and never use it? Are you saying the Strikefire and Trophy are for looks only and are not made for daily carry? Are you saying the OP is poor since he doesnt want to spend more then $400 on a optic?
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Old 03-07-2013, 8:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
Who said anything about a safe queen?
+1

OP said "Battle Rifle"
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:50 AM
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Ya umm I don't see much CQB action where I live not sure about you.. Go back to off-topic please. Not to mention he's on a budget.
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Old 03-07-2013, 6:05 PM
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wow what an ego...
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  #32  
Old 03-07-2013, 6:10 PM
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I really couldn't decide. In the end I went with an Aimpoint comp but also picked up a Nikon Prostaff 3X9X40 that set me back around $165. Now I can fun with the CQB stuff and do long distance in the same day. I know the Nikon isn't the premier scope but I'm having a ball.
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Old 03-12-2013, 7:00 AM
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When it comes to battle optics
there a few key things
1 range estimation
If you don't know how far your target is then chances of you hitting it past 400 are slim.

2 Drop
If you dont know where to dial in or hold its a guessing game.

3 Wind
Not knowing how to adjust for wind again leaves you guessing.

4 time of engagement
How fast can you hit the target close or far.

Our PA AIRS 5.56/5.45 reticule
Brings it all together
Its a dual purpose reticule utilizing an open circle and lead for 0-300 and BDC with wind dots correlated with ranging.
In testing it has proven to be exceptionally effective.



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Last edited by PrimaryArms; 03-12-2013 at 7:31 AM..
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  #34  
Old 03-13-2013, 2:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimaryArms View Post
When it comes to battle optics
there a few key things
1 range estimation
If you don't know how far your target is then chances of you hitting it past 400 are slim.

2 Drop
If you dont know where to dial in or hold its a guessing game.

3 Wind
Not knowing how to adjust for wind again leaves you guessing.

4 time of engagement
How fast can you hit the target close or far.

Our PA AIRS 5.56/5.45 reticule
Brings it all together
Its a dual purpose reticule utilizing an open circle and lead for 0-300 and BDC with wind dots correlated with ranging.
In testing it has proven to be exceptionally effective.



Dimitri
Is it in stock yet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 03-13-2013, 5:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Jyruiz View Post
Is it in stock yet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not yet

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  #36  
Old 03-15-2013, 6:47 AM
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http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/60...38502#i5938502

Stuff will be showing up soon

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  #37  
Old 03-15-2013, 8:39 AM
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Just to chime in here...just because it's government issue, that does not make it a "sacred cow" and the "end all" of choices when it comes to gear. Aimpoint's and EOTech's are awesome, sure. But most people don't have the extra cash to afford to help those companies pay back the impressive marketing campaigns they have for those nifty products. As a Marine infantry scout, participating in OIF throughout 2003, I never got either. I got issued an M16A2, an AN/PVS-4 night vision weapon sight (which weighed a ton and I rarely used), AN/PVS-7 night vision goggle set (the coolest toy in the world), and a PAQ-4 IR laser (the 2nd coolest toy in the world). I had no complaints with any of that gear except that they used too many batteries, and the night vision scope was too heavy for sustained use. The "cool kids" from Force Recon. (now MARSOC), got Aimpoint's and EOTech's and other awesome pieces of gear that a lowly infantry scout could only dream of (and borrow from them when they weren't using 'em...gear adrift is a gift). Corollary: Marines don't steal, no no no no...we "reallocate mission essential equipment".

Years later, when I was working as a security contractor & doing consulting stuff, and I was playing around in the gun industry & security industry, I picked up tips from the sponsored shooters and other armed professionals in the those industries (mostly law enforcement dudes and some more seasoned contractors). They gave me an awesome piece of advice: use the gear you can afford to replace if and when it breaks, because your gear will break in time through hard use, and then it's just a money issue to replace it.

Now, in the world of security contracting, most if not all of your gear is bought and paid for by the group contracting your services. There are some contracts which require you to purchase your own gear and you are given stipends, cash advances, or are reimbursed later after completion of the contract (save your receipts). The individual contractors are expected to provide their own equipment (weapons too, though rarely). When that was the case, and I had the option to buy my own gear (rare opportunity as it was)...I did not splurge and buy the "cool kid" stuff because I could not afford to buy additional replacement units.

At the time, I had two favorite scopes. My most used was a Weaver Classic K 4x38, which, at the time, I mounted in ARMS #22 30mm throw lever scope rings (medium), with ARMS #37 ring inserts (30mm to 1"). It was an awesome fixed power scope that had a generous amount of eye relief and was clear enough for regular usage. Plus, the windage & elevation caps almost never came off (with the help of 100-MPH tape), and it was solidly built too! I dropped the gun with the scope, banged the scope on doors and entries, and generally abused that scope. It worked great for my needs and the distances I was using it for. The next scope I had was the Bushenell 3200 10x40 with mildot reticle. It also had pretty good eye relief, was pretty clear, and most awesome part, it had finger adjustable turrets that were repeatable and reliable and they could be reset once you set up a basic zero for your AO. At the time, I mounted that scope using ARMS #22 30mm throw lever scope rings (high), with ARMS #37 ring inserts (30mm to 1"). That scope worked perfectly on a designated marksman rifle and was just the ticket for intermediate to long range "threat deterrence". I am a fan of fixed power scopes for combat rifles. Why? Less moving parts and they are way easier to learn how to use and become adept at using in harsh environments. It's no good having an optic that you can't figure out how to dial in when you got 7.62x39 rounds whizzing by you and your buddies.

In the end, the two most important things are this: use the gear you can afford to replace when it breaks, and, practice practice practice. Get the best training you can afford. Try out different tactical shooting schools. Each one will teach you something a little different and you can decide what works for you. And then, when you break a piece of gear while out and about, replace it. That's it. Just my $0.02. Semper Fi! --1911ShooterPhil
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Last edited by 1911ShooterPhil; 03-15-2013 at 1:03 PM.. Reason: Practice practice practice...
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  #38  
Old 03-21-2013, 4:34 PM
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Here is PA 6x with "ACSS" reticule.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=729457

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  #39  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
No we can not. I don't know what Military you are talking about, but when I was in I was never issued an Aimpoint Pro.

Just to be clear;
1- My ACOG screws always came loose. Even when tightened to the proper torque. I ended up using a paste on the threads that hardened and wouldn't allow the scope to be removed without a wrench.
2- I went through two Aimpoints. Both dots shifted to the far right after the rifle was dropped on cement.
3- My Trijicon Reflex was hard to see and got washed out in bright sun while I was standing in shade.

My non-Military experience;
I loved my EOTech 512 Rev F. No real issues that EOTech were responsible for.
I loved my C-More ATAC. That was probably the best Red Dot I have EVER used...period. If a person doesnt want a fixed BUIS, then they should get a all aluminum Railway model with a flip-up rear BUIS of their choice.

I could go on, but I think the point is made. I am currently using a Leupold VX-R that has a lifetime warranty. Made in the US and known worldwide as the gold standard to manufacture by. In fact Leupold is the company who writes the industries ISOs, everyone follows what they do....everyone.
Diesel, I often see posts where you suggest C-More (found this thread on search)... I've been contemplating a new RDS and was considering Trijicon RMR or RX - but am also considering C-More... since you've used them and like them I figured you're a good person to ask...

Are there aftermarket QD mounts available for all the models? And does anyone make covers for them? I see that the STS and RTS have molded covers fro C-More (which is great)... but what about the others?

In this post I'm quoting - you suggest Railway, and mentioned using ATAC, which one is that? (is that aluminum tactical? - if so, which model?)

Anything you can offer regarding various models would be great.

I considered sending this in PM - but others may benefit from the info too.

thanks ~
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Old 04-21-2013, 5:54 PM
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dieselpower dieselpower is offline
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I was turned on to C-Mores by a guy who ran one in competition.

The large style C-Mores were once the gold standard in Red Dots for competition. They are called "Sliderides", because they are built so strong you can mount one on the moving slide of a handgun and the recoil isnt going to hurt it at all. The disadvantage to that type of mount is a very blurry dot, so they came out with a mount for a handgun that places the optic over the slide, the "Serendipity" And then a standard rail mount. They are all the same with just a different mount. They come in plastic for weight control (which are not drop on the ground friendly), and an aluminum model which is just as strong as an EOTech. Very few guys didnt run one back in the day before many companies got serious about quality. They even out did Aimpoint. The only advantage to an Aimpoint was a closed tube design which could stand up to more abuse then a Glass Tower Reflex design.

The ATAC is an aluminum slideride mounted to a chopped mil-spec carry handle allowing a 1/3 co-witness on the AR15 system. Mount, optic & BUIS all in one. I prefer this over an Aimpoint and EOtech since I have used all three extensively and understand whats best for me. About the only optic I liked better was the ACOG Reflex, but I had very limited use time on that optic.

I have no experience with the new style C-Mores. I only trust C-More to put out a top notch optic due to their reputation in the competition world.

Last edited by dieselpower; 04-21-2013 at 6:03 PM..
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