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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #281  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:24 PM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
I wouldn't expect you to do anything other than carry water.

-Brandon
In that case, expect the unexpected.
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  #282  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:27 PM
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I was simply disagreeing with Genes earlier post of wanting everyone to register their rifle if this bill passes. I'm just not ready to do that yet and will do everything i can to prevent this bill from passing.
The keyword being if. What other option do you see at that time?

The CGF/NRA personality battle is a separate issue where it's not clear even who the combatants are, let alone what they are trying to accomplish by bickering in public. History will tell who did what - Al Gore invented Internet at one time too.
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  #283  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:32 PM
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Of course the NEWLY elected Sheriff had nothing to do with that

I had an OLL AR before you were even registered on this site. YOU did not invent the mag release/lock.
So Alan Gura committed perjury in a filing (see page 2) with the court about Sheriff McGinness (you know, the sheriff before the sheriff we had one of our people also talk to.)

And yeah, this didn't happen - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=45322

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Oh look, Gene's trying to take credit for Off-list rifles in CA again, what a surprise.
Yep. I had nothing to do with forcing the return of 219 Milpitas lowers, creating the legal basis and some of the core intellectual property in the bullet button, or getting the DOJ to admit the Bullet Button was legal. Nothing at all.

I mean, there wouldn't be an organized attempt to discredit me (who volunteers his time) by those who get paid and are smarting that they're getting less relevant. Not. At. All.

-Gene
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  #284  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:33 PM
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The CGF/NRA personality battle
I see the NRA as an effective force only where they have overwhelming numbers.

I see CGF as "operator" types who fancy themselves as smarter than the enemy, and attempting to win by cleverness, intel, bravado, and fancy footwork.

I see the CRPA as a beleaguered unit which has long been stuck behind enemy lines with spotty supply, outgunned, outmanned, and outmoded.

I see the SAF as a surgical steamroller (an oxymoron?)

I won't classify CGF detractors, because their tactics (let alone strategy) remain opaque and hidden to me.

I don't pretend to know which will have the greatest success in CA.
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  #285  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:33 PM
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Enh, there is not much to be Opsec about here. The other side's problem is this.

They can ban only bullet button rifles and we'll all go featureless and use normal magazines. Plus, the artificial distinctions between the now banned 10 round bullet button rifle and the unbanned MMG gripped AR with a 30 round magazine makes no sense.

As such, they've got to go to the next logical place and ban all semiauto rifles. Sounds like DC banning all handguns. Please put us in that briar patch.

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Does this ^^^^

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Originally Posted by IVC View Post
The keyword being if. What other option do you see at that time?

The CGF/NRA personality battle is a separate issue where it's not clear even who the combatants are, let alone what they are trying to accomplish by bickering in public. History will tell who did what - Al Gore invented Internet at one time too.
Look like it has the word "IF" in it?

This is what i based my posts on. To me someone is wringing their little hands at the prospect of this instead of giving ideas on how to squash this bill before it becomes law. (maybe i'm just completely taking this out of context) However, when you get attacked by Gene, i would say, "probably not"
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  #286  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:39 PM
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Yeah gene, you are responsible for getting 219 Milpitas lowers returned. Congratulations. Of course, that was you, CGF did not even exist, but it was still a victory. I'm not denying you credit where it is due. But by the time the bullet button was invented (not by you), there were 50,000 plus off-list rifles in this state. You were NOT the only person involved in making that happen. Again, they would not have been legal at all without Harrott.

Stop trying to exaggerate what you have done and actually accomplish something. Try to live up to the enormous public persona you have created for yourself.
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  #287  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:40 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
I mean, there wouldn't be an organized attempt to discredit me (who volunteers his time) by those who get paid and are smarting that they're getting less relevant. Not. At. All.

-Gene
You're paranoid. I don't think this is the case at all. (at least from me or anyone i know)

I'm simply looking at track records, lack of accomplishment, and fire missions that seem to have disappeared.
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  #288  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:42 PM
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I don't pretend to know which will have the greatest success in CA.
No reason for you not to know, let's take a look at what has happened already:

NRA/M&A 2A Cases:
Doe v SHFA – Win with settlement agreement.
Jackson- Published standing ruling.
3 Cases before 9th Circuit (Peruta, Mckay, Jackson)
Defeated 1 Gorski Case
and Potentially Another while minimizing harm to 2A (Mehl / Pizzo)

CGF 2A Cases:
Countless motions to dismiss granted against them.
No favorable procedural rulings.
No favorable settlement agreements.

1 Case before 9th Circuit (Richards).

NRA/M&A Vagueness Challenges:
Overturned AB 962 (Parker)

CGF Vagueness Challenge
AW Challenge – Multiple Motions to Dismiss Granted against CGF (Haynie)

NRA/M&A Preemption Challenge
Overturned SF Prop H Handgun Ban and recovered $380,000 in fees w/ published appellate ruling. (Fiscal)

CGF Preemption Case
Motion to Dismiss granted against CGF. (San Mateo)

NRA/M&A’s Other theories to overturn gun laws / policies
Defeated prohibition on use of lead ammunition – Environmental Law challenge. (CBD v. US Bureau of Land Management)

CGF’s Other Theories to Overturn Gun Laws / Policies
Challenge to Santa Clara carry policies - Equal Protection. (Scocca v. Smith)
FAAA challenge to AB 962 – Dismissed. (OOIDA)

Who would you say has been more effective?
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  #289  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:43 PM
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You're paranoid. I don't think this is the case at all. (at least from me or anyone i know)

I'm simply looking at track records, lack of accomplishment, and fire missions that seem to have disappeared.
Yeah I should probably add that I'm not part of any conspiracy either...
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  #290  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:48 PM
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. But by the time the bullet button was invented (not by you), there were 50,000 plus off-list rifles in this state. You were NOT the only person involved in making that happen. Again, they would not have been legal at all without Harrott.
I had nothing to do with Harrot. However, explain this - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=45322

I could spend a lot of time talking about CGF wins, but if we weren't doing something right we wouldn't be attacked by people on our side.

-Gene
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  #291  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:51 PM
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Who would you say has been more effective?
Do you provide legal advice to M&A?
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  #292  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:55 PM
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Did anyone but me notice that they aren't going after handguns, just EBR's and over 10 rd magazines. Ask yourself why.
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  #293  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:56 PM
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Did anyone but me notice that they aren't going after handguns, just EBR's and over 10 rd magazines. Ask yourself why.
Handguns prior to 1991 are having to be registered under this bill, those after 1991 already are....

And they already have the Roster for handguns...and there are proposals to make that worse
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  #294  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:57 PM
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I had nothing to do with Harrot. However, explain this - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=45322

-Gene
Are you claiming you did all the design work on the BB? Didn't know you had those kind of skills. If you, I'll be happy to give you credit. But by taking credit for all BB equipped RIFLES that enter the state, you are implying that you are singlehandedly responsible for the OLL movement. That just isn't the case.

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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
I could spend a lot of time talking about CGF wins, but if we weren't doing something right we wouldn't be attacked by people on our side.

-Gene
So I'm on your side, but I'm attacking you because you are doing well? That makes sense to you? Well, actually that would explain quite a bit of your behavior over the years. All your vicious attacking of other RKBA groups in CA was because you thought they were doing things right! Wow, if we had only known it could have saved a lot of heartache and bad feelings. I on the other hand am criticizing you because I think you deserve the criticism, and I want you to stop making the RKBA fight here in CA harder. You are doing more on that front than Brady and LCAV put together. We could be sitting around right now talking legal strategy against our actual enemies, but instead we are doing this. Why? You need only look at yourself to answer that.

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Do you provide legal advice to M&A?
No.
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  #295  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:58 PM
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Did anyone but me notice that they aren't going after handguns, just EBR's and over 10 rd magazines. Ask yourself why.
My god! That Alan Gura guy couldn't have changed the debate!?!?!?</sarcasm>

-Gene
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  #296  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:00 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
I had nothing to do with Harrot. However, explain this - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=45322

I could spend a lot of time talking about CGF wins, but if we weren't doing something right we wouldn't be attacked by people on our side.

-Gene
I'm sorry, i respectfully disagree. I for one would love to see a list. I see CGF attacking posters here for asking questions or disagreeing with a platform than i see anyone just blatantly going after CGF. At least thats my perception. Even nasty emails from various board members.
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  #297  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:00 PM
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Handguns prior to 1991 are having to be registered under this bill, those after 1991 already are....

And they already have the Roster for handguns...and there are proposals to make that worse
I was talking about a ban, not registration.
I have pistols I bought 30 yrs ago on the state list.
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  #298  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:01 PM
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I was talking about a ban, not registration.
I have pistols I bought 30 yrs ago on the state list.
And the roster is...
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  #299  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:02 PM
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Are you claiming you did all the design work on the BB? Didn't know you had those kind of skills.
The only alternative design of a bullet button had serious legal problems. The bullet button that was adopted used my CAD work. To this day the main manufacturer rues one issue with my design that he adopted.

So yes. I do have those skills. It was also not cheap to create and install the first 5 modern bullet buttons. I've never asked for nor made those dollars back.

-Gene
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  #300  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:04 PM
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I'm sorry, i respectfully disagree. I for one would love to see a list. I see CGF attacking posters here for asking questions or disagreeing with a platform than i see anyone just blatantly going after CGF. At least thats my perception. Even nasty emails from various board members.
Make it worth my while with a guaranteed large donation to CGF and I will distract from fighting the 50 bills, running our litigation, and defending the innocent and I'll update the list.

-Gene
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  #301  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:04 PM
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I'll never understand the CGF/Gene haters....
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  #302  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:06 PM
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Make it worth my while with a guaranteed large donation to CGF and I will distract from fighting the 50 bills, running our litigation, and defending the innocent and I'll update the list.

-Gene
Seems like CGF rejected the last donation he sent. In any case I can see why you can't be bothered to post a list... Is the one I posted above missing some great legal victory?
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  #303  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:09 PM
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I'll never understand the CGF/Gene haters....
And I'll never understand the Gene/CGF sycophants. How many cases would they have to lose before you would admit that they don't know what they are doing?
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  #304  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:09 PM
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Make it worth my while with a guaranteed large donation to CGF and I will distract from fighting the 50 bills, running our litigation, and defending the innocent and I'll update the list.

-Gene
I was going to write you a large check with a few more zeroes like i do every year at Christmas time. When i tried to ask questions about the CGF direction, i was attacked. The heart foundation ended up with that check.

I was told Brandon does ALL the work.
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  #305  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:12 PM
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Seems like CGF rejected the last donation he sent. In any case I can see why you can't be bothered to post a list... Is the one I posted above missing some great legal victory?
In fairness, it was not a CGF check/donation. It was a check from when they were trying to "save CRPA"
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  #306  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:13 PM
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In fairness, it was not a CGF check/donation. It was a check from when they were trying to "save CRPA"
Right, my mistake.
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  #307  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:14 PM
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I was told Brandon does ALL the work.
Since he's paid part time, he now is the person responsible for getting the deposits in and the bookkeeper updated.

-Gene
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  #308  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:15 PM
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And the roster is...
Sitting at rest in the 9th circuit.
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  #309  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:19 PM
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It sure is neat to watch us bicker as these bills move quickly. The 2a sub forum can be seen by anyone who clicks on CalGuns. If I was a gun grabber and stumbled on this thread I'd be giddy right now. Personal attacks. what have you done for me lately? This reads like a soap opera. We need a united front, not a Richard measuring sideshow.
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  #310  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:21 PM
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Since he's paid part time, he now is the person responsible for getting the deposits in and the bookkeeper updated.

-Gene
OK So....

CGF IMHO could be a much stronger organization (and a winning organization) if they could learn to accept a little hard feedback.

When we talk about the bill in this thread, here on CGN, why is that its always your way or the highway? You do realize that the 2A is just as much my right as it is yours don't you? Other posters here disagree all the time without drawing the ire of each other on a more personal level.

When someone questions you, the feathers fly. How can we all come together in that kind of atmosphere?
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  #311  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:29 PM
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OK So....

CGF IMHO could be a much stronger organization (and a winning organization) if they could learn to accept a little hard feedback.

When we talk about the bill in this thread, here on CGN, why is that its always your way or the highway? You do realize that the 2A is just as much my right as it is yours don't you? Other posters here disagree all the time without drawing the ire of each other on a more personal level.

When someone questions you, the feathers fly. How can we all come together in that kind of atmosphere?
You say this like you've been universally constructive. Your posts stand for themselves.

-Gene
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  #312  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:31 PM
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You say this like you've been universally constructive. Your posts stand for themselves.

-Gene
So if, according to you, some anonymous internet poster has an attitude problem, it justifies yours as "Chairman, The Calguns Foundation?" Great leadership.
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  #313  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:36 PM
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You say this like you've been universally constructive. Your posts stand for themselves.

-Gene
Sorry!!! I'm just a gun owner, thats it! I don't pretend to be a lawyer, i ask lots of questions that get me bashed, (just asking to learn) I know nobody in this forum personally, and you have the need to dis credit me?

My gosh! LOL!! What did i do?? I am here to learn and form my own opinion on 2A stuff/litigation/politics.

When i am wrong i take note of it and learn from it. Sometimes i'm right and more often than not wrong. But, so what?

Are you always right?
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  #314  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:38 PM
eaglemike eaglemike is offline
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
OK So....

CGF IMHO could be a much stronger organization (and a winning organization) if they could learn to accept a little hard feedback.

When we talk about the bill in this thread, here on CGN, why is that its always your way or the highway? You do realize that the 2A is just as much my right as it is yours don't you? Other posters here disagree all the time without drawing the ire of each other on a more personal level.

When someone questions you, the feathers fly. How can we all come together in that kind of atmosphere?
Don't you think we've all seen your point by now?

Might be time to move on........
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  #315  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:40 PM
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hoffmang hoffmang is offline
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Originally Posted by Tincon View Post
So if, according to you, some anonymous internet poster has an attitude problem, it justifies yours as "Chairman, The Calguns Foundation?" Great leadership.
You see, I have the guts to not be anonymous and own my reputation. You, not so much.

-Gene
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  #316  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:44 PM
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Tincon Tincon is offline
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
You see, I have the guts to not be anonymous and own my reputation. You, not so much.

-Gene
Well, see, I'm not a narcissist, so I actually don't need to plaster my name all over everything. Also, you have clearly demonstrated your willingness to make personal and libelous attacks against those you can identify.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglemike View Post
Don't you think we've all seen your point by now?

Might be time to move on........
I certainly don't, take a look at the post right below yours and tell me if you think Gene has got the point.
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  #317  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:45 PM
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baddos baddos is offline
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I hope everyone can focus on the real enemy here and not each other. I understand the lawyers have their strategy, but at the same time i've been waiting 20 years for the original awb to be overturned.
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  #318  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:47 PM
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I hope everyone can focus on the real enemy here and not each other. I understand the lawyers have their strategy, but at the same time i've been waiting 20 years for the original awb to be overturned.
Take a look at Peterson. That case did more damage than our "real enemies" at LCAV and Brady have done in twenty years.
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  #319  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:48 PM
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hoffmang hoffmang is offline
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Originally Posted by Tincon View Post
Well, see, I'm not a narcissist, so I actually don't need to plaster my name all over everything. Also, you have clearly demonstrated your willingness to make personal and libelous attacks against those you can identify.
Anonymity releases you from consequences. Taking responsibility for your words is hard work. I understand that that's not something you'd like.

-Gene
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  #320  
Old 02-25-2013, 8:48 PM
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"Ignore" listing just grew a bit, magnificent tool. I'm thankful for CGF, thanks.
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