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  #41  
Old 02-22-2013, 11:29 AM
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Called them a few times and after getting through we cleared it up and I'm now on the list. Unfortunately they were sold out by that time. Some other time, I suppose...
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  #42  
Old 02-22-2013, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capybara View Post
Lotta discussion over on the Mosin Nagant forums from the hardcore collectors that these M38s are mongrels/mixmasters, refinished recently by Molot. Good shooters I am sure but don't buy one thinking you are getting something rare or collectible. The Mosin snobs (yes, there are many) liken these to a Mitchell's Mauser.
No offense to gunboards or 7.62x54r.net, but a lot of people there don't know what they're talking about. I was reading the thread over at gun boards a few days ago and it was one guy who was saying that these are molot refinished with no real evidence as side from conjuncture. He hasn't even seen them and is probably going off the fact that it has a molot model number (the KO prefix) and a manual with dating in it. Some people think that the date and signature in the small booklet is the refurbished date, but it's actually the packing date.

I'm not saying that these aren't commercial refinishes, those have appeared before, but with how molot dealt with the M44 and with the PUs, there isn't any weight to that claim either. With the PUs, there was a massive, massive thread about people saying that they aren't legit and are fake. They were eventually proved wrong and that the PUs were from Bryansk military storage (which is likely where the M44s and M38s are from as well). Then the argument went to they aren't as collectable becuase they were refurbed (by the military) at a later date and have more import marks. I'd wait to actually see for myself, or hear from other people who have ordered them and are familiar with mosins.

A few of the comments on gunboards also attack classic's credibility, since they did pull a Mitchell in the past and some are still rather upset with that. Although I have bought from them a few times and everything was fine. Their scare tactics is a little annoying, but that has nothing to do with the guns really. Some are also complaining about issues that is inherit to online gun purchases as well, which again, has nothing to do with the guns themselves.

Of course though, it is true as you say. Don't expect a collectable at these prices.

sorry for the rant. I get rustled easily and gun boards discussions usually gets me twice as hard. That's why I don't post there often.

Also, a tip for people who wanted to order but FFL isn't on their list yet (I think it's a stupid system myself)

Place an order, and just use an expired FFL on the list, then leave a comment on the order saying that you are already sent (or is going to send) your 03 already and to ignore the ffl and shipping address you used to place to order with. That's what I did with my first order and it worked fine.
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  #43  
Old 02-22-2013, 12:02 PM
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Lotta discussion over on the Mosin Nagant forums from the hardcore collectors that these M38s are mongrels/mixmasters, refinished recently by Molot. Good shooters I am sure but don't buy one thinking you are getting something rare or collectible. The Mosin snobs (yes, there are many) liken these to a Mitchell's Mauser.
Absolute FUD.

These will be essentially as any other Soviet refurbished MosinNagant. The big difference being these are from Russia proper as opposed to being from Ukrainian depots.

If the 'Russian' M44 (KO-44) that were processed by Molot are any indication these may be of superb quality. Early reports are that many are not counterbored (the majority of refurb M38's are. Did Molot rebarrel or add some rifling to these? )
Also many may be in M38 stocks. If anyone thinks a M38 refurb isnt collectable, well good luck with your acquiring all original examples.

We'll have to see if any '39s, 45's, tulas, hexes, SA recaptures! early stocks SHOW UP... those would be huge scores

All Molot does is obtain the rifles from arms depositories. Account and document them. Give them a cursory cleaning. Then they laser etch them as per thier requirments for domestic sale and exporting. Remember, the US cant import military arms from Russia, but we can import hunting rifles

We are lucky to have these hunting rifles available to us at this time
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  #44  
Old 02-22-2013, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Vlad 11 View Post
If anyone thinks a M38 refurb isnt collectable, well good luck with your acquiring all original examples.
There certainly will be rare examples, but if the previous PU and M44 lots are any indication, those will be separated and sold at higher prices. Both AIM and Classic did this with the PU, and AIM did it again with the M44s. Classic claims that they aren't sorting these though, so who knows what might show up.
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  #45  
Old 02-22-2013, 2:23 PM
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Have to see which shows up first now. The M38 from Classic or the Wideners M44

-178S
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  #46  
Old 02-22-2013, 3:30 PM
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FWIW, the discussions weren't on GB or the 7.62x54r boards, I read this on the Mosin Nagant boards. There are a lot of hardcore collectors over there from some of the answers, discussions and detail I have seen.

The consensus was that if refinish is done by the government arsenal they are okay with that, but if Molot is doing the refinish, they say that is Mitchell's Mausers territory. Doesn't matter to me, I would buy one if I wasn't buying ammo instead. I have too many Mosins anyway.

Thought it was an interesting discussion.
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  #47  
Old 02-22-2013, 4:10 PM
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So, is AIM out of the M38's? Am I correct? Or do they have them? Just want to make sure. I have my 03 License and can fax it to them if I decide to get one. I know by reading the thread comments they are running low.
I could pick up an M44 at a local gunshow but they want $260.
Any thoughts and advice please. Please PM too if you want.
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  #48  
Old 02-22-2013, 5:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dinkydau View Post
So, is AIM out of the M38's? Am I correct?
They currently show as out of stock.
http://www.classicfirearms.com/m38rifle

If you have your 03, you can scan and send it to them, so they have it on file next time.
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  #49  
Old 02-22-2013, 5:09 PM
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http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_217/2...ns.html&page=7

nice of Aim to wait with this news until Classic was sold out!! f-ed up...
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  #50  
Old 02-22-2013, 5:11 PM
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Aim Surplus have not gotten any yet. Classic Arms sold out today.

As noted, fax or mail a copy of your C&R for next selling frenzy.
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  #51  
Old 02-22-2013, 5:14 PM
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Originally Posted by vincentvangerven View Post
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_217/2...ns.html&page=7

nice of Aim to wait with this news until Classic was sold out!! f-ed up...
Wow, glad i ordered a couple.
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  #52  
Old 02-22-2013, 9:19 PM
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One of the guys on Gunboards got his, looks pretty damn good:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...77#post2489677
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  #53  
Old 02-22-2013, 9:50 PM
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A special thanks to the O/P . I grabbed a couple.
I really enjoy this C&R addiction.
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  #54  
Old 02-22-2013, 9:55 PM
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Yea the first one that showed up looks real nice
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  #55  
Old 02-23-2013, 6:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad-B-Man View Post
No offense to gunboards or 7.62x54r.net, but a lot of people there don't know what they're talking about. I was reading the thread over at gun boards a few days ago and it was one guy who was saying that these are molot refinished with no real evidence as side from conjuncture. He hasn't even seen them and is probably going off the fact that it has a molot model number (the KO prefix) and a manual with dating in it. Some people think that the date and signature in the small booklet is the refurbished date, but it's actually the packing date.

I'm not saying that these aren't commercial refinishes, those have appeared before, but with how molot dealt with the M44 and with the PUs, there isn't any weight to that claim either. With the PUs, there was a massive, massive thread about people saying that they aren't legit and are fake. They were eventually proved wrong and that the PUs were from Bryansk military storage (which is likely where the M44s and M38s are from as well). Then the argument went to they aren't as collectable becuase they were refurbed (by the military) at a later date and have more import marks. I'd wait to actually see for myself, or hear from other people who have ordered them and are familiar with mosins.

A few of the comments on gunboards also attack classic's credibility, since they did pull a Mitchell in the past and some are still rather upset with that. Although I have bought from them a few times and everything was fine. Their scare tactics is a little annoying, but that has nothing to do with the guns really. Some are also complaining about issues that is inherit to online gun purchases as well, which again, has nothing to do with the guns themselves.

Of course though, it is true as you say. Don't expect a collectable at these prices.

sorry for the rant. I get rustled easily and gun boards discussions usually gets me twice as hard. That's why I don't post there often.

Also, a tip for people who wanted to order but FFL isn't on their list yet (I think it's a stupid system myself)

Place an order, and just use an expired FFL on the list, then leave a comment on the order saying that you are already sent (or is going to send) your 03 already and to ignore the ffl and shipping address you used to place to order with. That's what I did with my first order and it worked fine.
What was the Mitchells problem Classic had? I'd never heard of it.
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  #56  
Old 02-23-2013, 8:00 AM
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Originally Posted by MrTokarev View Post
What was the Mitchells problem Classic had? I'd never heard of it.
I think they chromed some Mosins.
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  #57  
Old 02-23-2013, 8:10 AM
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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
I think they chromed some Mosins.
and if they did not idiot would believe they were REAL legit mosins. Unlike Mitchells that tries to pass them off as REAL Nazi mausers
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  #58  
Old 02-23-2013, 8:10 AM
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There may be a collectible or two in this batch as classic didn't hand pick through them and just sold them all at the same price. We will see here next week if any rarer ones surface. I ordered a few 91/30s from classic last year and one of them was a triple date mo marked so there is a good chance a few people will get lucky.
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  #59  
Old 02-23-2013, 1:33 PM
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I think they chromed some Mosins.
I remember them chroming some Toks but they always seemed to be clear on the fact that they were the ones that did it. Doesn't seem quite as scandalous as Mitchells.
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  #60  
Old 02-23-2013, 2:26 PM
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I think there is a common misperception by some that Molot is doing some history-destroying monkeying with these rifles. Based on my recent Classic PU sniper buy experience, what you get are probably the same components that were stored together in Bryansk where they were mothballed in the late 50's-early 60's.

By the looks of it, all Molot does is:

1. Remove original arsenal packing and cosmo (my recently received sniper required very little clean-up other than wiping off some medium grade machine oil)
2. Make sure the rifle isn't an obvious dog. Apply appropriate markings to satisfy import requirements.
3. repack in bubble wrap and crunchy brown paper, rebox and label
4. Sell to the highest U.S. bidder/importer

Most convincing, two of the internet's foremost Mosin experts have vouched for the authenticity of this batch. Vic Thomas and Brent "Tuco" Snodgrass have posted their comments elsewhere. In fact, Tuco was bidding against I/O, Inc. to obtain this batch from Molot.
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  #61  
Old 02-23-2013, 3:40 PM
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Originally Posted by winchester1943 View Post
I think there is a common misperception by some that Molot is doing some history-destroying monkeying with these rifles. Based on my recent Classic PU sniper buy experience, what you get are probably the same components that were stored together in Bryansk where they were mothballed in the late 50's-early 60's.

By the looks of it, all Molot does is:

1. Remove original arsenal packing and cosmo (my recently received sniper required very little clean-up other than wiping off some medium grade machine oil)
2. Make sure the rifle isn't an obvious dog. Apply appropriate markings to satisfy import requirements.
3. repack in bubble wrap and crunchy brown paper, rebox and label
4. Sell to the highest U.S. bidder/importer

Most convincing, two of the internet's foremost Mosin experts have vouched for the authenticity of this batch. Vic Thomas and Brent "Tuco" Snodgrass have posted their comments elsewhere. In fact, Tuco was bidding against I/O, Inc. to obtain this batch from Molot.
I am positive you are 100% correct and am 100% disappointed that I missed out on these. Too many irons in the fire. I've been trying to sell a lot of guns to drum up cash for a land purchase, but keep moving backwards with new bills and new guns. I almost pulled the trigger on these, so post up those M38s.

....and PM me if you have one you want to sell.
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  #62  
Old 02-23-2013, 5:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winchester1943 View Post
I think there is a common misperception by some that Molot is doing some history-destroying monkeying with these rifles. Based on my recent Classic PU sniper buy experience, what you get are probably the same components that were stored together in Bryansk where they were mothballed in the late 50's-early 60's.

By the looks of it, all Molot does is:

1. Remove original arsenal packing and cosmo (my recently received sniper required very little clean-up other than wiping off some medium grade machine oil)
2. Make sure the rifle isn't an obvious dog. Apply appropriate markings to satisfy import requirements.
3. repack in bubble wrap and crunchy brown paper, rebox and label
4. Sell to the highest U.S. bidder/importer

Most convincing, two of the internet's foremost Mosin experts have vouched for the authenticity of this batch. Vic Thomas and Brent "Tuco" Snodgrass have posted their comments elsewhere. In fact, Tuco was bidding against I/O, Inc. to obtain this batch from Molot.
Back when they first appeared for sale, people were doubting the authenticity of these rifles, Tuco posted this:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...17#post2211717
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco
These came from the Bryansk military storage facility
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...66#post2211866 (asked about documentation with the rifles)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco
Yes & no but I know as fact this is where they came from. I tried to buy these over a year ago. I'm limited in what I can say as I am under a confidentiality agreement (not from Io as I was bidding against them). Still I can state 100% as fact that is where these came from. There are no more snipers there at least none for sale. In time more info will come out on these & maybe "other" stuff as well. But to answer your question LC, there is paperwork but not paperwork with each rifle. Still as I saw the rifles there I am pretty sure where these came from.
And Vic posted this:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...37#post2227137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic
Just so you guys know- the guns were purchased from another party and Molot's only part in the action was the "commercial" sale and transfer of the rifles to circumvent a restriction of military weapons being transported across the EU. Thats why they are proofed and sold as "hunting rifles"
The only people I can see that doubt the authenticity of the Molot PUs seem to be the guys who paid $200 more for a PU from Rguns. Yeah, the import mark is uglier than the RGuns rifles, but a smaller import mark isn't worth $200 to me. Considering an original PU Scope and mount sell for $350 by themselves, a complete WW2 military sniper rifle for $600 is a screaming deal.

As to the M38, after seeing the one posted on Gunboards, I am looking forward to mine even more, if that is possible.
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  #63  
Old 02-23-2013, 6:29 PM
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I am looking forward to mine even more, if that is possible.
Yea cant wait.


There are commercial reworked versions of Mosins by Molot. Anyone that has handled a refurb or two can see the clear difference. I just can't get what the hubub is about

I personally think the Rguns import stamp is the most hideous of all. Smack dab cheese grater on the top of the receiver. The laser etchings dont bother me too much. It seems these M38'shave the MOR style stamp on the receiver which is better than the PWarms billboard
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  #64  
Old 02-24-2013, 8:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MrTokarev View Post
I remember them chroming some Toks but they always seemed to be clear on the fact that they were the ones that did it. Doesn't seem quite as scandalous as Mitchells.
Yep, everything that I have seen them advertise that were chromed were honestly described.
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  #65  
Old 02-28-2013, 2:45 PM
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My M38 has arrived, all number match except the magazine cross lined, laminated m44 stock, non counterbored bran new mirror bore I can not make up the year, I will get an idea when I disassemble.




Last edited by eagle eye; 02-28-2013 at 3:37 PM..
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  #66  
Old 02-28-2013, 2:57 PM
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Nah
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  #67  
Old 02-28-2013, 3:28 PM
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My M38 has arrived, all number match except the magazine cross lined, laminated m44 stock, non counterbored I can not make up the year, I will get an idea when I disassemble.
Looks like 1943 to me...

Nice stock even if it is 44 inletted.
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  #68  
Old 02-28-2013, 3:30 PM
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The M38's from this Classic batch were amazing. DDR stamps, wartime stocks, but the most incredible thing was the barrels seem to be almost virgin. Almost all reports say mirror bores, no counterbore. Most are plain jane 1942-1944 Izzy's but a few 1941's got through.
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Old 02-28-2013, 4:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Chaos47 View Post
Looks like 1943 to me...

Nice stock even if it is 44 inletted.
Looks like a 43 to me too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winchester1943 View Post
The M38's from this Classic batch were amazing. DDR stamps, wartime stocks, but the most incredible thing was the barrels seem to be almost virgin. Almost all reports say mirror bores, no counterbore. Most are plain jane 1942-1944 Izzy's but a few 1941's got through.
Yep. I saw one 1940; no 1939 or 1945 though. I didn't see any tula M38s either.
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  #70  
Old 02-28-2013, 5:06 PM
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Originally Posted by winchester1943 View Post
The M38's from this Classic batch were amazing. DDR stamps, wartime stocks, but the most incredible thing was the barrels seem to be almost virgin. Almost all reports say mirror bores, no counterbore. Most are plain jane 1942-1944 Izzy's but a few 1941's got through.
Mine shipped yesterday. Very excited

-178S
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  #71  
Old 02-28-2013, 5:40 PM
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Wow ... those look great. Good luck guys. I was about to order one BUT I have to work on curbing the mosin addiction (but to be honest, if I didn't already have a M38 I would have ordered one - addiction or not).

I'm not a fan of those import markings though....
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Old 03-01-2013, 7:01 PM
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Got my m38 today it is a 1943 all matching glad i made this impulse buy



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  #73  
Old 03-01-2013, 7:07 PM
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ElvenSoul ElvenSoul is offline
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All gone
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  #74  
Old 03-01-2013, 7:12 PM
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Very nice, looks like a m44 stock. is it counterbored?
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  #75  
Old 03-01-2013, 7:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle eye View Post
Very nice, looks like a m44 stock. is it counterbored?

nope bore has not been counterbored
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  #76  
Old 03-04-2013, 10:28 AM
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All matching, but check out the stock...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg stock.jpg (22.3 KB, 26 views)
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  #77  
Old 03-04-2013, 10:53 AM
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I was one of the dummies waiting for aim to get theirs in. Anybody want to sell their extra one please pm me.
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  #78  
Old 03-04-2013, 11:28 AM
w55 w55 is offline
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Mines suppose to be here today. By chance wrecked my back this weekend so be here when she arrives.

On side note took my 19 yo daughter out shooting another M38..she had a blast went thru about 20 rounds, recoil was fine lol
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  #79  
Old 03-04-2013, 1:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzmatazz View Post
All matching, but check out the stock...
The tang is a weak area of the M/N design, that's more common of a repair than you'd think. Still neat looking though.
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  #80  
Old 03-04-2013, 1:49 PM
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Mine got here about an hour ago.

1939 Izhevsk in a M44 stock. Bore looks good, handguard and stock are mismatched, I am not sure what to make of the stock, looks like a wartime M44 (has the bayonet cutout), but almost looks laminated, with lots of grain.









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