Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > CONCEALED CARRY/LICENSE TO CARRY > Concealed Carry Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 03-17-2013, 11:13 PM
InGrAM's Avatar
InGrAM InGrAM is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,700
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

You are well within your right to shoot.

The folks saying to not shoot because it is a "neighborhood" would you say the same if it was an armed criminal? The same thing applies to a dog attacking your family.... One of my dogs is 120+ pounds and bigger than most females I know. If I couldn't shoot and hit her with my handgun I shouldn't own a firearm.

You should be worried about the threat at hand. If the dog owner hadn't let their vicious dog out to attack you and your family you wouldn't have had to defend yourself and your family in the first place.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 03-18-2013, 5:32 AM
mofojoe mofojoe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 850
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Why shoot? Just strangle the damn dog!!!
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 03-18-2013, 7:33 AM
Supertac916 Supertac916 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,250
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Pepper spray, gun, knife. Those would be the order for me. Oh yeah, I don't like little dogs, so my German Shepard would protect my wife and kids.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 03-18-2013, 8:42 AM
ParadigmGuy ParadigmGuy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 212
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

I've been bit by a dog. I do not ever see a reason for shooting one. They aren't strong enough or agile enough to overwhelm me. I can't ever see them getting to my wife or daughter if I am there, especially if I have our pooch with us. Our dog (Patriot) is my daughter's (Freedom's) protector, that is his purpose in our family.

A little off topic, but I never like to hear dogs (generalized) talked about in a negative way, so I'm sharing. My two year old brings him his food every morning while he watches and waits. He follows her around the house and up the stairs just in case she falls down. When she isn't around but has left her stuffed animals laying about, he sleeps next to her animals. Otherwise, he lays in his bed where he can see her throughout the day. There was a rattle snake in our back yard last year, next to my grill. Patriot found it before it got to Freedom or me and attacked it, flinging it about in his mouth. The snake got him twice, on both sides of his muzzle. He broke the spine of the snake, but it didn't die. We immediately got Patriot to the vet for some anti-venom and after two days of vomiting and not eating, he was on his way of getting back to normal (although his muzzle was swollen for two weeks). If he hadn't been there, I likely would have been bit, or worse, my daughter would have been bit.

Yes, my daughter's name is Freedom and her dog's name is Patriot. We got Patriot from a rescue as an 8 year Pit Bull just before her first birthday. He had that name when we got him, and he has been perfect for her and our family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Bald_Guy View Post
I'll explain it to you. It was an attempt at humor, based on the Michael Weston tradecraft bits in "Burn Notice." Obviously, it fell flat--okay, no big deal. What IS funny is that I needed to explain it.

Carry on.

.
I didn't get it at first, but once I read it with a Michael Weston voice it was much more entertaining.
__________________
Kurt
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 03-18-2013, 11:17 AM
Kid Stanislaus Kid Stanislaus is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Oakdale, CA
Posts: 4,421
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

If you walk your dogs and don't carry pepper spray then I'd question your IQ. I've sprayed a dog or two but I've also found that just spraying the ground in front of the attacking dog usually makes them stop and then retreat. Another tactic I use is "command voice", make the dog know YOU are the boss in that situation and they'll usually back off. Now, I'm not some naive fool, I know there are dogs out there that'll attack just the same but a face full of pepper spray WILL stop an attacking dog and save you a major hassel with an LEO or a civil suit. Of course, the dog owner is going to be really pissed about his dog getting sprayed, just keep that can of spray in plain sight!
__________________
Things usually turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out.

Last edited by Kid Stanislaus; 03-18-2013 at 11:35 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 03-18-2013, 11:24 AM
Kid Stanislaus Kid Stanislaus is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Oakdale, CA
Posts: 4,421
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddawg46 View Post
I still carry when walking our dogs, but did get some pepper spray. Attaches to the retract leash. Hope I never have to use either. Thanks for all the inputs.
FORGET having it attatched to the retract leash. Have it IN YOUR HAND, dogs can move in with amazing speed from behind and the damage is done before you can get the can in shooting position.
__________________
Things usually turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 03-18-2013, 11:26 AM
Kid Stanislaus Kid Stanislaus is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Oakdale, CA
Posts: 4,421
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Licht View Post
In the future if on my property I would now shoot, if given a clear shot! If not... mace would be the best deterrent IMHO while out for a walk/jog/ride/etc.
It'd make life much simpler to just build a fence. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
__________________
Things usually turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out.

Last edited by Kid Stanislaus; 03-18-2013 at 11:36 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 03-18-2013, 11:28 AM
paul0660's Avatar
paul0660 paul0660 is offline
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ukiah
Posts: 15,706
iTrader: 34 / 100%
Default

Quote:
your two miniature dogs
I like little dogs, but mine are named "Bait", and "Chum".

Given the OP's description, shoot.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 03-18-2013, 11:38 AM
Hoshnasi's Avatar
Hoshnasi Hoshnasi is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,731
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loubot10 View Post
Anyone who quickly says "shoot the dog" is crazy.

Shooting the dog will require space or point blank to the head.
At any point you'll be introducing hot lead into the neighborhood environment.

The knife is a better answer and can be used to inflict repeated injury without multiple projectiles.
Why do people assume that your average person is good with a knife and further WANTS to the get into knife (and teeth) range with a dog.

Pepper Spray or a Gun should be the primary recommendation for dog attacks, if the dog gets within biting range, then fine pull a knife if you have to.

If an angry looking dog came bolting at my dog, wife, etc. I'd shoot it before it had a chance to bite. If I shot it with pepper spray instead of a bullet, the dog got lucky.
__________________
Come to Flavor Country...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kappy View Post
You don't like homosexuality, don't let some dude stick his tab A into your slot B.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko45
But then again I think of the mayors nephew, his face distored with tears and terror, the GAP employees who asked for my autograph, and had to settle for a cover identity’s signature, the flashbangs, and their acrid scent, the small of napalm in the evening breeze, as I crouch behind a shopping cart in the parking lot,
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 03-18-2013, 4:59 PM
Edwood Edwood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 780
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

As much as I love my dogs and all other dogs, any time a dog breaks the skin of a human and blood is visible, it's fair game to take the dog's life. Any lawyer worth their salt will win that case.

But pepper spray and knife back up is pretty effective. Although many times, a firm stomp and yell works as well (although not so much for trained fighting dogs and packs of dogs).
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 03-22-2013, 1:09 AM
foreppin916's Avatar
foreppin916 foreppin916 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Sacramento, Commiefornia
Posts: 795
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

I know in my ccw class the instructor recommended we carry pepper spray as non lethal and a knife as well

If the dog is already on your wife biting her Id say use the gun because that is "great bodily harm" or could be deadly

If you were really on point that day and saw the dog sitting in the garage with no leash before it bolted at you I would pull out the pepper spray.

Better to have options IMHO
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 03-22-2013, 3:29 AM
Bert Gamble's Avatar
Bert Gamble Bert Gamble is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Midland, Texas
Posts: 2,715
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

I would run to a safe location and blow my police whistle since the city I live in does not think self defense is a good reason to have a CCW, and my county sheriff will not accept applications from those who reside within the city limits.
__________________
WARNING: This post will most likely contain statements that are offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense, and or maturity.

Satire: A literary composition, in verse or prose, in which human folly and vice are held up to scorn, derision, or ridicule.
_____________________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 03-27-2013, 8:49 AM
DocSkinner's Avatar
DocSkinner DocSkinner is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Eastbay, CA
Posts: 1,213
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_Charles View Post
Call me crazy. I've shot dogs before. Just keep in mind it's not a paper target and you need to move left or right before setting up. It will slow the animal down. Give u time to tell your wife to step back and give you a panning fov. Controlled pair. Anatomy gives you a great shot head on.
Google NYC cop shoots dog. If there are people around. It's all bad. If not. Roll out. Wife vs dog. No brainier. An a hole dog usually has an a hole owner.
The animals I destroyed were eating dead bodies in New Orleans. And I was commissioned to do so. FYI.
Wow - you have never been attacked by a dog. Watched too many movies maybe - like how LEOs can shoot the gun out of someone's hand - this is similar. Like you say - it isn't a paper target. It is a lightning fast biting machine. You wife isn't going to be standing there calmly listening to your instructions, and the dog taking a time out to let her follow your instructions.

There is a reason police dogs are so effective even against armed criminals. When a dog that big decides it is attacking, your wife will be a visegrip bite lock with the dog with the dog shaking and moving her. SHE will not be in control

They will be moving around super fast like an Argentine tango - on speed. You will be VERY likely to shoot your wife trying to shoot the dog, or a bystander when the dog is being in three different places at once (or it will seem that way at least).

ANd yes - I had a neighbor's dog attack me. Attacked and then latched onto my shin. I carry a knife as well - was to busy fending off teeth to think about it.

Even dog trainers get spooked in a bite suit when the dog gets released. Find a trainer and talk them into letting you be the bad guy and release a dog from the distance you are talking about. EVen see if they will just let you see the attack on the trainers. Your whole perspective will change.

Not arguing against dispatching the dog, that should be a given. Just saying how quickly it all happens will amaze you. If you don't have muscle memory training for the situation, you are going to be a spectator, and potentially a dangerous to everyone spectator.

Here is great video - and shows the officers cam as well for a first person view. And these are people trained to deal with attacks - so muscle memory kicked in. http://www.kval.com/news/local/Caugh...?tab=video&c=y
__________________
"If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature,
but by our institutions, great is our sin."
-- Charles Darwin

NRA Life, CRPA Life, SASS Life, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, FSC Instructor
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 03-27-2013, 11:02 AM
CBR_rider CBR_rider is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,766
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Thanks for posting that video, Doc. I hadn't seen it before. The video graphically highlights the reality of some dog attacks: Dog attacks can happen very fast (as you have already mentioned), dogs don't always attack by themselves, putting down one dog with a firearm will at least temporarily spook any other dogs also attacking (leading to the question: Would a near-miss work to spook the dogs?), and aggressive dog owners (who in turn own aggressive dogs) can turn into another potential safety concern.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 03-27-2013, 1:25 PM
vmwerks's Avatar
vmwerks vmwerks is offline
Oy vey
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,276
iTrader: 82 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NokSuCow View Post
Shoot the dog...there is no debate

Just a dog, shoot it...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 03-27-2013, 1:27 PM
johnjohn301's Avatar
johnjohn301 johnjohn301 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 147
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddawg46 View Post
So your walking with your wife and your two miniature dogs on a Sunday afternoon. It's close to your neighborhood. All of a sudden an extremely large German Shepard bolts out of a garage unleashed. You each scoop up your dog and try to protect them. The dog lunges and attacks your wife. You try to fend off the dog, but it will not stop attacking your wife, and biting her repeatedly.
Do you draw your CCW and fire at the dog? Is this considered a life threatening situation?
What would you do?
I do this...

http://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archiv...ylink=misearch
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 03-30-2013, 9:28 PM
momo9mm45auto momo9mm45auto is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Apple Valley, San Bernardino County
Posts: 2
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

So, about 2 months ago I purchased one Pepper Spray for my bike riding. I’m in the high desert and there are Dog all over the place when I ride.
The very next day, the people 7 houses up from me let their “Junk Yard Dog” out when they opened their gate as I road by and there goes the Dog after me. I tried to outrun it but it was trying to “EAT” my bike and kind of knocked me off onto me feet a few times. I did not think it was try to bit so I did not use the Pepper Spray. My garage opener fell off the bike and when I got home I open my car and sat in it. The man drove down and got his Dog and put it into his car and said “my Dog would NOT bite anyone” OK. I told him that I just purchased Pepper Spray just for this purpose and he said “You should have sprayed him to teach him a lesson” O BOY.

After that I Purchased 2 Dog Pepper Spays and have used these on 7/8 Dogs. The issue with Sprays when riding the wind curves the spray and does NOT go in a straight line.

The worse time was when 2 Dogs were chasing me, one on each side of the bike but Spraying one and the other one stops.

Yesterday a Dog comes off the front porch of a house and does it’s normal bark bark chase chase so I started to spray it but my first DOG Sprayer is out, now to the backup Dog spray but I Drop It and now the Dog thinks it’s his so I get the Real Spray and walk up to the Dog with my bike and SPRAY it in the face. It takes off running back to the house; I pick up my Dog Spray and continue my ride. So 20 minutes later “Animal control” is in their driveway so I start to think I’m in trouble so I put my bike up.

I head over to the bike shop for tire patches and talk to the owner about the current Dog Issue I just had and animal Control being there. She indicated that if I’m using California approved “PEOPLE” Pepper Spray “not dog stuff” I should not have any issues with Animal Control and actually the people that live there my get sited for NOT having their Dog on a leash and it being in the middle of the street attacking people. She also say it’s best if you stop and get the bike between you and the dog and then you would not have any issues with the wind curing the spray when riding “easy to say that”.
So I think “NO MORE DOG” type pepper spray and just use normal people spray and NOT TRY to be a good guy and get “mauled”.

Dog bite laws in California

When you own a pet, you take responsibility for its actions. In the state of California, dog bite laws are defined under Civil Code section 3342 – a law that helps to legally protect the public in the event a dog bites or dog attack is sustained. The statue says that if a dog attacks a person, it is the responsibility of the dog owner. In other words, it’s up to the dog owner to take full responsibility for his or her pet. If an accident does occur, then the dog owner is generally held responsible.
A person who is injured due to a dog attack has the right to seek damages according to California law.
The seriousness of dog bites and dog attacks
Dog bites can cause a lifetime of injury or even wrongful death. Types of injuries sustained after a dog attack include:
• Catastrophic injury (muscle damage, nerve damage)
• Loss of extremities (bone damage, loss of limbs)
• Permanent scarring (torn tissue, facial disfiguration)

California Civil Code section 3342.

(a) The owner of any dog is liable for the damages suffered by any person who is bitten by the dog while in a public place or lawfully in a private place, including the property of the owner of the dog, regardless of the former viciousness of the dog or the owner's knowledge of such viciousness. A person is lawfully upon the private property of such owner within the meaning of this section when he is on such property in the performance of any duty imposed upon him by the laws of this state or by the laws or postal regulations of the United States, or when he is on such property upon the invitation, express or implied, of the owner.

(b) Nothing in this section shall authorize the bringing of an action pursuant to subdivision (a) against any governmental agency using a dog in military or police work if the bite or bites occurred while the dog was defending itself from an annoying, harassing, or provoking act, or assisting an employee of the agency in any of the following:

(1) In the apprehension or holding of a suspect where the employee has a reasonable suspicion of the suspect's involvement in criminal activity.

(2) In the investigation of a crime or possible crime.

(3) In the execution of a warrant.

(4) In the defense of a peace officer or another person.

(c) Subdivision (b) shall not apply in any case where the victim of the bite or bites was not a party to, nor a participant in, nor suspected to be a party to or a participant in, the act or acts that prompted the use of the dog in the military or police work.

(d) Subdivision (b) shall apply only where a governmental agency using a dog in military or police work has adopted a written policy on the necessary and appropriate use of a dog for the police or military work enumerated in subdivision (b).

Thank

Mo

Ps - will start working on my CCW after my 3 classes and more info on insurance
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 03-30-2013, 10:39 PM
wonder9 wonder9 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 91
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Best thing you can do is get a real dog. Save your bullets for the feral gang members instead.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 03-31-2013, 7:49 AM
JNunez23's Avatar
JNunez23 JNunez23 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Sherman Oaks
Posts: 2,785
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Rather go with the "non-lethal" option like the pepper spray. Or even better, "bear spray!"

But assuming that doesn't work, my SOG tanto blade should take care of his *** pretty quick.
__________________
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are."
John Wooden

Need a holster?, please email us at StrappedKydex@gmail.com for any holsters, mag carriers, and more. Custom jobs welcomed!
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 04-01-2013, 2:03 PM
Vanguard's Avatar
Vanguard Vanguard is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Keller, Texas
Posts: 7,236
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

I wouldn't wait for the dog to actually bite my wife. As soon as I see an unleashed, unattended dog approaching in a hostile manner, I'm drawing and shooting it.
__________________
"We're surrounded.....that simplifies our problem."
-Chesty Puller-

"Don't forget that you're First Marines! Not all the Communists in hell can overrun you!"
-Chesty Puller-

-Dimitri, I'm sorry they're jamming your radar and flying so low, but they're trained to do it. You know, it's, it's initiative!-
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:43 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.