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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 02-18-2013, 9:38 PM
Maddawg46 Maddawg46 is offline
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Default Dog attack Scenario- what would you do?

So your walking with your wife and your two miniature dogs on a Sunday afternoon. It's close to your neighborhood. All of a sudden an extremely large German Shepard bolts out of a garage unleashed. You each scoop up your dog and try to protect them. The dog lunges and attacks your wife. You try to fend off the dog, but it will not stop attacking your wife, and biting her repeatedly.
Do you draw your CCW and fire at the dog? Is this considered a life threatening situation?
What would you do?
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Old 02-18-2013, 9:55 PM
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Dispatch the dog -

Doesn't have to be life threatening - "Great Bodily Injury"

Steve
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  #3  
Old 02-18-2013, 10:00 PM
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Shoot the dog...there is no debate
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:04 PM
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I have thought about this before. I would worry about a ricochet so woulden't shoot. But I would dispatch the dog with my Kershaw Blur knife.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddawg46 View Post
The dog lunges and attacks your wife. You try to fend off the dog, but it will not stop attacking your wife, and biting her repeatedly.
If you've let that much happen, you've already let her get bit too many times. Shoot the dog.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:28 PM
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I was actually thinking about the same scenerio the other day while walking with my wife and 2 girls who are 6 and 1. I told myself if an aggressive dog comes running towards us I'm not gonna give it the opportunity to bite any one of us. I would shoot it before it even gets close enough to do any harm.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:54 PM
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Depends on size of dog... kicks to the face/ribs often do wonders. Last time I was attacked by multiple dogs I shot one and the rest ran. My biggest concern would be maintaining a good background for those shots if it was in a neighborhood/I had little ones panicking and running around.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:04 PM
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This is why I carry my trusty benchmade with me....
But in your situation, shoot.
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  #9  
Old 02-18-2013, 11:20 PM
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Behind every bullet is a lawsuit. I see Kalifornia as a place where some degenerate keeps his aggressive, trained fighter dog unchained. Victim shoots said dog and then is expected to "pay".

Last time I had an unfriendly dog go postal was on the job with the Fire dept. Local PD put two 357sig rounds into a known, violent pit bull and that was it.

In OPs inquiry - IF I had my CCW and IF it was clearly a risk to my wife or children's life? I would shoot the bustard... The. Immediately fire police report and makes sure I've got my liability / umbrella insurance on speed dial.

Worthy to note - my old town, in free MERICA (New Mexico) a gentleman shot an Aggressive dog - owners Pressed charges.... Despite the dog being a violent monster.

Still waiting to see if the charges will be tossed out
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:48 PM
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Me- if you don't CCW, atleast have pepper spray in hand.
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  #11  
Old 02-19-2013, 7:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertexplore View Post
Me- if you don't CCW, atleast have pepper spray in hand.
^^This. Except I have CCW.

STORY: I went on a run with my wife (no holster to carry while I run) and we ran past a house with a waist high chain link fence. A huge german shep come barking and jumps the fence and comes at my wife. I pulled out my pepper spray and gave the dog about a 1-second burst and it stopped him in his tracks.
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Old 02-19-2013, 8:15 AM
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Default Shoot the d.. dog(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddawg46 View Post
So your walking with your wife and your two miniature dogs on a Sunday afternoon. It's close to your neighborhood. All of a sudden an extremely large German Shepard bolts out of a garage unleashed. You each scoop up your dog and try to protect them. The dog lunges and attacks your wife. You try to fend off the dog, but it will not stop attacking your wife, and biting her repeatedly.
Do you draw your CCW and fire at the dog? Is this considered a life threatening situation?
What would you do?
Slam dunk, life threating/ great bodily harm, shoot the dog(s). I would not even attempt to "fend off" dog(s) from wife (except with boot to head of dog), could loose function of hand(s) then cannot draw and fire. The fact that incident occurs anywhere near your neighborhood does not matter a bit. Beware of Fluffy's owner who is going come out of their house ready to stomp fluffy's killer. Animal control officers are assaulted with alarming frequency. Although I say its a "slam dunk" that is not to say that discharging weapon will not mean a civil suit.... like others have said with every bullet that comes a line a lawyers who would just love to win the most favorite game in CA. LIABILITY LOTTO... . Yet another good reason to check your insurance policy.
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  #13  
Old 02-24-2013, 3:45 PM
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Nothing to consider the dog has become imminent danger once it attacks. Worry about the lawsuit later, but your wifes life is the only thing you should be thinking about in that moment.
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  #14  
Old 02-24-2013, 4:10 PM
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Shoot dog. You have right to defend your family against any life threatening attack. Even without a license to carry.
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  #15  
Old 02-24-2013, 5:05 PM
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If any of you don't have a CCW or are worried about this scenario consider a cattle prod. They are light weight easy to carry and will stop a dog in its tracks. Just a thought from your country cousin. Very effective and not considered a weapon. Up here if a dog bites a human for any reason their time on this earth is over.

Bill

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  #16  
Old 02-25-2013, 1:16 PM
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That is life threatening. A dog can maul a human badly. Deadly force is authorized for self defense or defense of life of others.
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Old 02-25-2013, 7:28 PM
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If you fear for your life and your wife's life, you have the right to dispatch the dog. You ccw to protect you and your family.
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  #18  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CooldadE View Post
I have thought about this before. I would worry about a ricochet so woulden't shoot. But I would dispatch the dog with my Kershaw Blur knife.
Agreed, I would go blade over gun whilst in CA. Were I in a "friendlier" state shooting would be 1st choice. But here in the People's Republic of CA, offer the left arm while slicing below the dog's chin using knife in right hand. Reverse this technique if left-handed. The first guy who'd told me that method was a lineman for Edison Electric. He had been trained by an old timer that carried a filet knife in his tool belt for just this reason.
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  #19  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:44 PM
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Anyone who quickly says "shoot the dog" is crazy.

Shooting the dog will require space or point blank to the head.
At any point you'll be introducing hot lead into the neighborhood environment.

The knife is a better answer and can be used to inflict repeated injury without multiple projectiles.

Had a buddy who was CHP go camping with me. 1/4 mile from the camping spot, we watch a very large cougar walk calmly across the highway in my headlights.

I decided we would sleep in the car much to my buddies dismay. I explained that after years of hunting, I'd learned that the cat had the upper hand. He argued but agreed.

2 weeks later he called to say I was right after a unit responded to a large dog loose on the freeway. The officer found the animal was intent on attacking so he plugged away with his .40 while the dog kept coming.

Long story short, the dog was still sitting when they hauled it off to the vet for patch-up. It lived even though it was hit 8 times.

That's a lot of lead to be throwing around a neighborhood.
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  #20  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:56 PM
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Have had two dog attacks. First time a dog came onto our property and attacked my dog. My father pick the other dog up and threw it off the porch and the dog came back at my dad. I had grabbed my rifle by this time and put 2 rounds into the dog just before it reached my dad. Neighbors *****ed about it but resigned themselves to the fact that their dog was at fault.

The second time another loose neighbor's dog attacked my dog while on a walk. I immediately intervened and when it turned on me, it split its skull with a D-cell mag light I was carrying. Bent the damn flashlight, but the dog fled.

Basically, if a dog is attacking any family member, any opportunity to neutralize it is justified.
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  #21  
Old 02-26-2013, 7:40 PM
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Pepper spray for the win!

* highly unlikely to result in any charges (e.g., discharge of a firearm)
* highly unlikely to result in any lawsuits (even if you spray someone else by mistake vs your shot hitting someone else by mistake)
* much less likely to result in drama from the dog's owner ("Would you have preferred that I shot it?!!!")

While I look forward to getting a LTC/CCW, I'll still carry pepper spray just to avoid needless drama in defending me & mine.

FWIW a bright flashlight (80 lumens or more best), will blind and stop a dog in its tracks at night.

Never forget, we live in the PRK. Avoid needless drama in your lives.

more self-defense advice at:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...36#post6257236
linked in my sig line too.
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  #22  
Old 02-26-2013, 8:27 PM
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I still carry when walking our dogs, but did get some pepper spray. Attaches to the retract leash. Hope I never have to use either. Thanks for all the inputs.
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Old 02-26-2013, 8:28 PM
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This was basically the reason I started carrying a knife. I know there is a good chance I'll get bitten several times, but at least I'll have something.
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Old 02-26-2013, 9:20 PM
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Old 02-27-2013, 8:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBR_rider View Post
Depends on size of dog... kicks to the face/ribs often do wonders. Last time I was attacked by multiple dogs I shot one and the rest ran. My biggest concern would be maintaining a good background for those shots if it was in a neighborhood/I had little ones panicking and running around.
Many years ago a wild pitbull was roaming our neighborhood, it tried to attack my dog and later my nephew. Wearing steel toed boots, stupidly I kicked the dog numerous times in ribs and head... it kept coming back for more! Tried to bite me but I kept kicking... 6-10 HARD kicks!

I dont know what happened to him after I dispatched an aluminum baseball bat to his head! He let out a loud yelp and finally moved on... I called PD and Animal Control but they couldnt find him!

In the future if on my property I would now shoot, if given a clear shot! If not... mace would be the best deterrent IMHO while out for a walk/jog/ride/etc.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:23 AM
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Similar event recently happened in Carmichael, CA. No wife, medium sized dog...attacked by larger dog. Man bit while trying to separate, pulls LTC gun and puts down attacking dog. No worries about marksmanship, or backstop. 2" or less of range, ground only a few feet farther straight down.

No charges, no law suit, doctor's and vet bills.

IMHO, pepper spray? Maybe. Pistol as necessary. Knife? Nope.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter95 View Post
This is why I carry my trusty benchmade with me....
But in your situation, shoot.
I had that happen.
The woman got the dogs collar and I told her if the dog got loose I would kill it. I had my Benchmade Rukus. I have cut enough throats to do a good job of it. (ranch living, game hunting)
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Old 02-27-2013, 6:35 PM
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[QUOTE=Loubot10;10645482]Anyone who quickly says "shoot the dog" is crazy.

...The knife is a better answerQUOTE]
I disagree. I don't usually carry a knife. I know how to shoot.
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Old 03-08-2013, 2:57 PM
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I often carry a knife, and I'm in the process of applying for CCW. I have to say, it takes a lot more skill to manipulate a knife properly, than it does to manipulate a pistol properly. It also takes a significantly greater amount of strength. There is also the obvious disadvantage of very few knife training opportunities... A gun range may be expensive, but combat training is even more. If knives (or even pepper spray) were as effective as guns, they would probably be used more... they are easier to obtain, and maintain.

Honestly, if a dog was attacking me or my family, and I had a clear shot, I would pick the gun. On the other hand, Pepper spray allows for some distance, though you could have trouble if there is wind. You also run the risk of hitting your family/pets, but pepper is temporary, whereas a bullet can be very permanent. In the end, I feel all 3 are viable options, depending on the scenario, and skill of the person using them.
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Old 03-08-2013, 3:16 PM
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You say "Good Boy" !
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Old 03-08-2013, 3:27 PM
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My size 12 with steel boots work well the last time that happened.
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Old 03-08-2013, 4:14 PM
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I thought of this scenario a bunch. I would put myself out front kicking at dog to go away. It would most likely attack leg. I would then draw and shoot dog. Afterwards I would sue the owner for any of my injuries/family pain suffering injuries.
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Old 03-08-2013, 6:15 PM
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Pit bulls, Presa Canarios, and Rottweilers are the dogs of choice for drug dealers, tin pot dictators, warlords, and mob bosses. If you find yourself on the receiving end of an attack by one of these brutes, sacrifice your non-dominant arm and use your other hand to press your thumb and forefinger into his eyes. The key is to do this quickly, before he's had a chance to chew through your tendons or get your radial artery. If he gets your radial artery, reflect back the muscle with a broken beer bottle and cauterize the end of the severed vessel by removing a round from your gun, opening a cartridge, pouring the powder into a piece of that paper they use to pick up donuts at the donut shop, rolling the powder inside the donut paper, placing it into the artery, and igniting it with a Bic lighter. Or...skip all of those steps and just press your wheel gun right up against the mad dog's eye and send him a .38 Special delivery along the same route the optic nerve travels to the brain.
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Old 03-09-2013, 5:21 AM
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Wayyyyyyy toooooo many movies
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Old 03-09-2013, 5:49 AM
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I forgot--lots of taking things literally around here.
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Old 03-09-2013, 5:53 AM
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Wayyyyyyy toooooo many movies
Yea, probably never shot anything in their whole life but play video games 14 hours a day.
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Old 03-09-2013, 6:26 AM
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Another extremely literal-minded guy chimes in. Hilarious.
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Old 03-09-2013, 6:30 AM
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I'll explain it to you. It was an attempt at humor, based on the Michael Weston tradecraft bits in "Burn Notice." Obviously, it fell flat--okay, no big deal. What IS funny is that I needed to explain it.

Carry on.




.
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Old 03-09-2013, 6:46 AM
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I've have been out walking my dog (rottweiler mix, no little "dainty" dogs for me, thanks), and had other dogs charge and attack.

In those cases (twice), I've simply kicked the crap out of the attacking dog.

Most dogs really wont 'fight to the death', but will back down quickly once you demonstrate that you wont submit...bully breeds seem to be the exception to that rule, in my observation.

Not every defense encounter requires drawing your whizbang ccw piece from a crossbreed holster, stoked with ranger sxt from deep concealment...

Sometimes, the simplest answer is the best one.
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Old 03-09-2013, 7:55 AM
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The main point of surviving a dog attack is to NOT get bit. Right?
Dogs hate pepper spray. Use it at a distance. Do NOT let the dog get close to you or get you on the ground.
Distance is your defense.
Good walking stick can help create distance and defend against a lunging dog.
Knife fight with a dog means he has gotten or will get some of you. Too close.
Even defensively shooting a dog in in Cali is akin to shooting a human. I know, I know.
My suggestion is a walking stick and pepper spray for walking your dog.
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