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Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

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  #1  
Old 02-13-2013, 11:49 AM
Tmckinney Tmckinney is offline
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Default What to look for on my 1941 mosin nagant 91/30

I want to make a 91/30 into a carbine length rifle and also redo the stock to carbine length. It's what the Russians did anyway.

But I don't want to do it to my rifle if its anything special, rather than a run of the mill war time mosin with no real special collector interest or feature.

Problem is I don't know jack about what that might be. Bolt, receiver, floor plate and butt plate all have matching numbers. Other than that I have no clue. Does not appear to be counter bored, but I have not been able to look good with light and my glasses and clean up the bore.

Would this era rifle be of any special interest, or just another of the millions of serviceable rifles that are out there.
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  #2  
Old 02-13-2013, 1:12 PM
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If it's a '41 Tula, it's pretty rare and worth a lot. Likewise if it is an ex-sniper - Tula or Izhevsk it is pretty valuable.

A standard '41 Izhevsk, not so much.

You could make a 91/59 or 91/44-91/38 style carbine out of it, but seems like a lot of work. To do it right, you would need a shortened M44 front sight base with the bayonet lug removed, unless you want to keep the bayonet feature.

Probably be cheaper and easier to just buy an M44.
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Old 02-13-2013, 1:20 PM
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Purists will say don't bubba a piece of history. Not sure where I stand on it though. It is your rifle to do what you want with, but realize you are eliminating any collector value.

With the price of M38s and M44s shooting up over $250 we'll probably be seeing a lot more cut down 91/30s.
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Old 02-13-2013, 1:40 PM
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don't do it.
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Old 02-13-2013, 1:44 PM
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post pics
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  #6  
Old 02-13-2013, 2:48 PM
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Bad idea
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  #7  
Old 02-13-2013, 3:06 PM
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"MO" marks are hard to come by if yours has one. I've never seen a Tula from 41, and I've seen my fair share of Mosins.

My advice...don't do it. Buy a mid or late-war Mosin if you want to bust out the hack saw. Even the Russians cut off the 91/30 in 44 or 45 because they knew they had so many of them. Destorying collector value is sort of a minor point when it comes to Mosins...there's always 16,999,999 more where that one came from.
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Old 02-13-2013, 3:24 PM
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Destorying collector value is sort of a minor point when it comes to Mosins...there's always 16,999,999 more where that one came from.

Not if Obamee has anything to say about it in the next few years.

Anyway, to the OP, if you want to cut it down then go ahead, it's your rifle, but be warned, you will be lucky to get that $120 (or so) back if you hack it.

C&R collectors can smell a bad egg from a mile away and that includes the numerous Mosins.
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Old 02-14-2013, 8:06 AM
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Just another one (Hysterical collectable) of 64 million $100 rifles.
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Old 02-14-2013, 8:16 AM
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Cut and recrown and then post pics.
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Old 02-14-2013, 8:35 AM
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Post to a picture of the markings on the receiver. That being said i am a purist. If you wanted a carbine you should have bought one! It is your rifle though so do as you wish.
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Old 02-14-2013, 8:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmckinney View Post
I want to make a 91/30 into a carbine length rifle and also redo the stock to carbine length. It's what the Russians did anyway.
No they didn't. They didn't cut down 91/30 barrels and stocks, they made new, shorter barrels and stocks.

Put me in the anti-bubba camp.
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Old 02-14-2013, 9:03 AM
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don't do it.
!! I agree !!
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Old 02-14-2013, 9:41 AM
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No they didn't. They didn't cut down 91/30 barrels and stocks, they made new, shorter barrels and stocks.

Put me in the anti-bubba camp.

M38 and M44 carbines were new production with short barrels and stocks....I know there is some internet bullschitt story out there about original M38's being made out of cut-down 91/30's - it didn't happen.

However, 91/59 was made from cut down 91/30 rifles, and the version known here as the 91/38 and in Europe as the 91/44 (because these originally had M44 bayonets before the bayonets were later removed) was made from cut down earlier rifles like M91's.

But I totally agree with the purist/preservationist viewpoint.

I realize you already have some money invested in your rifle, and for many of us funds are tight, espcially in the face of rising gun prices.

However, altering a Mosin rifle into a carbine is generally a bad, money losing, idea. If you can swing it, get an M38, M44 or 91/59, as these are the most available and affordable Mosin carbines. Myself, I dislike the bayonet on the M44 and much prefer the M38....but some folks really think the M44 is cool, and I can see that. I do like their looks, just not the weight and balance compared to an M38, and that clunky bayonet likes to catch on things.

Point here being that if you get a real Mosin carbine at the right price, it will be an ASSET and INVESTMENT that will INCREASE IN VALUE, rather than being the BUBBA'ED ABORTION, whose value has just sunk like a rock thrown into a septic tank, that most chopped up Mosin rifles are.

If you really insist on reworking a Mosin, I would recommend getting one that some dum bass has already fukked up.

Also, back in the 1950's when Interarms was importing Mosins from Spain and Finnland, they cut a number of them down into carbine length "sporters" that were sold cheaply by various department stores, Five and Dime's, and hardware stores. These were generally well done, with original M91 or 91/30rear sights and commercial ramp front sights, 1903A3 front sights, or a weird looking sight that resembled an 03A3 sight. The barrels on these were generally a couple inches longer than an M38 barrel, so you could shorten it a little more, add an M44 sight base (with or without the bayonet lug, your choice), and pick up either an M44 stock (they are out there if you look) or get one of those 91/30 stock sets (from AIM, as I recall) and shorten it yourself.

While not rare, a 1941 rifle is pretty historical - think Operation Barbarossa, German forces in full advance blitzkrieging their way across the vast open spaces of the Soviet Union, Soviet forces in desperate full retreat and suffering the loss of millions of men and rifles, "Joe the Butcher" Stalin hiding in the Kremlin and wetting his pants in fear that he would soon face the same fate that he so willingly condemned millions of his unwilling subjects to. Finnland is avenging the Soviet atrocities of the Winter War, Leningrad is incircled, Stalingrad is just a name on the map, far beyond the distant horizion. France is beaten, any other hostile or unreliable European nations pacified by German forces or their governments replaced by pro-German (or at least anti-Communist) factions, Britain at least temporarily pretty much out of the European war, and FDR desperately trying to provoke Hitler into a war with the U.S., that Hitler doesn't want, to save his Marxist hero Joe Stalin.

Further, a 1941 rifle (we're talking Izhevsk here, since we have already made it clear that '41 Tulas are rarer than flying unicorns or an intelligent and honest Democrat politician) with it's correct early-style stock and handguard, and all stamped matching numbers (especially original numbers, not re-stamped ones) would be quite collectable and worth a lot more than $100.
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:31 AM
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I'm curious. How much do you guys think a 41 Tula would go for? I picked one up in the infamous mosin group buy and gave it to a friend who was retiring from the Marines.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:41 AM
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My 91/59 has a 91/30 rear sight base, so that doesn't really matter.

It's my opinion that with the carbine length barrel, it will shoot better since you'll cut a new crown and the tube itself will be stiffer. The rifle itself will be a joy and pleasure to handle.

My carbine is currently my best Soviet Mosin in terms of shooting. And just to put this into perspective, this carbine is still longer than a 20" AR-15 with an A2 stock.
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Old 02-17-2013, 1:39 PM
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I have to admit that I am into mosins because of the surplus ammo gives it such a great $/power ratio. With all the panic buying out there, its almost as cheap as a rimfire.

I too dislike the attached bayonet, which is why I was going for the 91/59. It's also for the challenge of doing it. When I first bought mine a year or two back, there were still $99 rifles on line and carbines always seemed to be $225 or more. I think that we're the idea started with me.
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Old 02-17-2013, 2:04 PM
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I'm curious. How much do you guys think a 41 Tula would go for? I picked one up in the infamous mosin group buy and gave it to a friend who was retiring from the Marines.
That's tough given the current panic, but even at pre-panic prices it's worth $300+ I'd guess. I can only remember seeing a half dozen or so posted online the past five years.
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Old 02-17-2013, 2:08 PM
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Another vote for not chopping it. If you want to do it because it sounds fun, then knock yourself out. If you just want a carbine length Mosin, there are plenty of those around still.
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Old 02-17-2013, 2:32 PM
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Might just send it back to the auction block. Ordered one of those pristine carbines from wiedners. If they are as new as claimed, that's a smoking deal on a rifle, let alone a milsurp.
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Old 02-17-2013, 3:22 PM
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i vote for adding a 100 drum mag, muzzle break and telescoping stock to your mosin.....nothing says 'cool' better than 'tacticool'!!!
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mosinnagantm9130 View Post
That's tough given the current panic, but even at pre-panic prices it's worth $300+ I'd guess. I can only remember seeing a half dozen or so posted online the past five years.
Currently a 41 Tula on GB has been bid up to 700 and 3 days left to go on auction. Wish mine had been a Tula


Upon cleaning found out my 41 izzy is counter bored and rifling is looking pretty worn out as well. Still may shoot well, will know in a couple weeks.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:04 AM
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May I ask why a '41 Tula is worth so much? I have a pristine '42 Tula, is that valuable as well?
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:15 AM
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May I ask why a '41 Tula is worth so much? I have a pristine '42 Tula, is that valuable as well?
They did not make a lot of rifles in 1941. The Soviets were still reeling from the Winter War and the Great Purge, not to mention Operation Barbarossa. I also believe, if memory serves, the Tula factories were pretty close to the front when the Nazis invaded and all their machining was either moved or destroyed.

The city of Tula, where the industrial plants are (duh), is a little over 100 miles from Moscow. And to the south at that, so make a big guess which way the Germans were coming from.

When 1942 came around the Soviet Union was in full production so most rifles made from 1942 to 1945 are not very valuable.

Izhevsk, the town and industrial plants, are almost 750 miles EAST of Moscow in the Ural Mts. So make a big guess why they were able to make more rifles and why they aren't worth as much.
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Old 02-20-2013, 4:25 AM
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To the OP, check local shops, I've seen some pre hacked 91/30's nearby lately. Even a 91/59 in a synthetic stock.
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Old 02-20-2013, 6:46 AM
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i paid $119 for my T-53 from AIM. AIM just sold hex receiver MN M91/30 for $119. i love my T-53 chinese M-44.
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