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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 02-12-2013, 7:54 PM
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Thumbs up Sac County 2-year Renewal appointment info

Went for my 2-year Renewal appointment for Sac County this morning - A few things I wanted to update people about...

First, I was specifically instructed to read the new additional "restriction" on the new Licenses (which was also talked about in the Renewal Class):
"During any law enforcement contact, you are required to disclose your status as a CCW permit holder and you must disclose whether or not you are carrying a weapon on your person or in your vehicle."

Second, they are now requiring two Proofs of Residence - Utility bills, etc. but NOT any DMV paperwork. Nothing on their website or the email appointment confirmation about this.
I was given Amber Wong's business card with her email address (which I already had anyway) and they said to send the Proofs of Residence in PDF format to Amber's email. I used a current SMUD and PG&E bill.

Third, (this was a pleasant surprise!) I asked if they wanted my current License, and they said "No. Just keep your current one until you receive your new License, and then shred your old one after the expiration date."
Wow! Cool! OK! So I can still carry while waiting for my new License!

Anyway, just wanted to let people know about how the 2-year Renewal appointment went...
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  #2  
Old 02-12-2013, 10:46 PM
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Thanks for the heads up! It is a very pleasant surprise to be able to keep your old permit until you get your new one!
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Old 02-13-2013, 1:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quiet-wyatt View Post

Second, they are now requiring two Proofs of Residence - Utility bills, etc. but NOT any DMV paperwork. Nothing on their website or the email appointment confirmation about this.
I was given Amber Wong's business card with her email address (which I already had anyway) and they said to send the Proofs of Residence in PDF format to Amber's email. I used a current SMUD and PG&E bill.

I thought this was illegal???
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Old 02-13-2013, 7:27 AM
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Thank you for this information! Will sac county send a reminder when it's time for renewal? I'm up for renewal in a few months.
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Old 02-13-2013, 8:30 AM
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So the disclosure,, is it Sac county only or state wide? Must you declare the permit even if not carrying at the timer?


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  #6  
Old 02-13-2013, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dog View Post
Thank you for this information! Will sac county send a reminder when it's time for renewal? I'm up for renewal in a few months.
No they do not send you anything telling you that your CCW is up for renewal. You must check this on your own. You can only get in their to renew 6 weeks before it expires as well. Book your appt now.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by zonzin View Post
So the disclosure,, is it Sac county only or state wide? Must you declare the permit even if not carrying at the timer?


.
This is what it says in red ink at the bottom of the permit now....


Not Valid if consuming alcohol or remaining at any establishment that primarily serves alcohol. If contacted by law enforcement and carrying a concealed weapon , you must advise the officer of the presence of a firearm either on your person or otherwise present.

This to me means if you are not carrying you have no obligation to give them your ccw.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:38 AM
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My renewal was done last week, very easy and painless. You will receive a reminder email that your appointment is approaching.

On their website where you download the renewal forms it does say to bring in 2 forms of proof of residency and gives you examples of what you can bring. I laughed because isnt your current CCW proof of residency, it works for DROS.

I took in deed to house and also homeowners insurance. Had new permit in 2 days.

The one question I have and was not answered was can I downsize my permit? The first one I had I did but I have never had to show it. If I take and exact color copy of it, downsize and then laminate it is this legal?

Maybe not since you cant do this with a drivers license.
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Old 02-13-2013, 4:43 PM
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I did my renewel yesterday. Dude didn't say anything about the notification to Law Enforcement about being a CCW license holder. If I'm not carrying, why do I need to disclose?
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Old 02-13-2013, 4:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domino View Post
The one question I have and was not answered was can I downsize my permit? The first one I had I did but I have never had to show it. If I take and exact color copy of it, downsize and then laminate it is this legal?

Maybe not since you cant do this with a drivers license.
One of the guys that was there yesterday getting a mod to his CCW, showed me how he shrunk his license. I don't know if is legal or not. I personally would rather have the original copy issued by the S.O., then a copy I made. Does it make a difference? Don't know, and don't feel like testing the waters.
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Old 02-13-2013, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by domino View Post
On their website where you download the renewal forms it does say to bring in 2 forms of proof of residency and gives you examples of what you can bring. I laughed because isnt your current CCW proof of residency, it works for DROS.
Thanks - I did not see that at the top. I think it should also be included in the list for each type of appointment too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by domino View Post
The one question I have and was not answered was can I downsize my permit? The first one I had I did but I have never had to show it. If I take and exact color copy of it, downsize and then laminate it is this legal?

Maybe not since you cant do this with a drivers license.
That was my thinking too - Can't carry a copy of your Drivers License...!
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Old 02-13-2013, 5:46 PM
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Originally Posted by zonzin View Post
So the disclosure,, is it Sac county only or state wide? Must you declare the permit even if not carrying at the timer?
I don't know if it depends on the County you're in, or if at ALL times since it's on YOUR permit. So I will default to notifying the officer just so there's no surprises...
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Old 02-13-2013, 5:47 PM
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Originally Posted by gotgunz View Post
I thought this was illegal???
Is it in/not in the Penal Code? I don't know... But it's now part of Sac County rules...
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Old 02-13-2013, 9:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quiet-wyatt View Post
Is it in/not in the Penal Code? I don't know... But it's now part of Sac County rules...
The specific requirement for disclosure isn't in PC, but the requirement that conditions and restrictions on the license be printed on the license exists in PC. Sac Sheriff has decided that the disclosure should be a condition of licensure. Regardless of which part of the state you may be in, if you have a Sac-issued license, you have to disclose when contacted by LEOs.
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Old 02-14-2013, 7:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
The specific requirement for disclosure isn't in PC, but the requirement that conditions and restrictions on the license be printed on the license exists in PC. Sac Sheriff has decided that the disclosure should be a condition of licensure. Regardless of which part of the state you may be in, if you have a Sac-issued license, you have to disclose when contacted by LEOs.
Actually I don't have a problem with the policy. If I get pulled over or approached by a LEO the first thing they get is my LTC followed by my DL. I don't think LEO's like surprises when it comes to firearms. I'd rather they know up front.
As a CHP buddy of mine said, "The bad guys don't tell us about the guns they have on them, don't be the bad guy."


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  #16  
Old 02-15-2013, 8:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epilepticninja View Post
I did my renewel yesterday. Dude didn't say anything about the notification to Law Enforcement about being a CCW license holder. If I'm not carrying, why do I need to disclose?
They dont say anything to you about it, when you receive it will be stamped in red at the bottom of the permit now.

If you are not carrying you do not need to inform them that you are a ccw holder. It says if you are carrying on your person and have contact to inform them.
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Old 02-15-2013, 9:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domino View Post
They dont say anything to you about it, when you receive it will be stamped in red at the bottom of the permit now.

If you are not carrying you do not need to inform them that you are a ccw holder. It says if you are carrying on your person and have contact to inform them.
In my case, they did say something to me, so it could depend on who's doing the renewal interview.

The exact wording is:
"During any law enforcement contact, you are required to disclose your status as a CCW permit holder and you must disclose whether or not you are carrying a weapon on your person or in your vehicle."

It says "or in your vehicle." So it's not just on your person.

Also, according to the exact wording, it sounds like "you are required to disclose your status as a CCW permit holder"
"AND"...
"you must disclose whether or not you are carrying a weapon on your person or in your vehicle."

Sounds like two different things required... Disclosing your CCW status (whether or not you're carrying) AND whether you are, in fact, now carrying on you or in your car...

That's the way it's written - That's the way I'm taking it...
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Old 02-15-2013, 9:18 AM
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^^^This^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by quiet-wyatt View Post
"During any law enforcement contact, you are required to disclose your status as a CCW permit holder and you must disclose whether or not you are carrying a weapon on your person or in your vehicle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by domino View Post
If you are not carrying you do not need to inform them that you are a ccw holder. It says if you are carrying on your person and have contact to inform them.
These are not the same. Domino, quiet-wyatt's version is identical to the policy posted on SSO web site http://www.sacsheriff.com/organizati...w_process.pdfe. (Second page, 5th bullet point).

This is important because that citation also says if you fail to meet these and other restrictions, your permit will be revoked.

It also seems appropriate to disclose regardless of whether you are armed. When they run your DL, it's going to show your CCW, and then a suspicious and pissed off cop has to ask you if you are armed.

Domino, can you please clarify the source for your statement? Thanks.

JR

Last edited by Dvrjon; 02-15-2013 at 9:37 AM..
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  #19  
Old 02-15-2013, 9:25 AM
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Regarding downsizing and laminating--
I did this with my first one. When I went in to change my address the deputy looked at it and said "you're not supposed to modify it" but wasn't upset, didn't threaten taking it away, and actually said he wished they would make them DL sized like most other states. I now keep mine in a different larger space in my wallet. Inconvenient yes, but until they change the size I won't give them a reason to revoke it.
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Old 02-15-2013, 9:36 AM
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Regarding downsizing and laminating--
I did this with my first one. When I went in to change my address the deputy looked at it and said "you're not supposed to modify it" but wasn't upset, didn't threaten taking it away, and actually said he wished they would make them DL sized like most other states. I now keep mine in a different larger space in my wallet. Inconvenient yes, but until they change the size I won't give them a reason to revoke it.
I think of my government issued CCW License like my government issued Drivers License - You MUST have the original on your person when using it.

You wouldn't want to carry a downsized copy of your Drivers License either and think that'll work...
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:34 PM
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***UPDATE***

My 2-year Renewal appointment was Tuesday morning the 12th (with the retired Sheriff).

It was a County Holiday so my Renewal wasn't even processed by County employees until Wednesday the 13th, but they finished it and sent it out THAT DAY!

It arrived at my house yesterday the 14th - Wow- that was fast!
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domino View Post
They dont say anything to you about it, when you receive it will be stamped in red at the bottom of the permit now.

If you are not carrying you do not need to inform them that you are a ccw holder. It says if you are carrying on your person and have contact to inform them.
Yeah, I got me renewal permit today, and saw that. Makes sense to me now. They just want notification to the LEO if you are carrying. I can see it from the LE's perspective. With all the b.s. going down now, it would hopefully solve any misunderstanding, before there was a misunderstanding.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:58 PM
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when i talked to the sheirff, they told me i could use almost anything current as proof of residency, went very well they even said cell phone bill would be accepted
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quiet-wyatt View Post
In my case, they did say something to me, so it could depend on who's doing the renewal interview.

The exact wording is:
"During any law enforcement contact, you are required to disclose your status as a CCW permit holder and you must disclose whether or not you are carrying a weapon on your person or in your vehicle."
That is not what the permit says. The verbiage on the permit says this:

Quote:
If contacted by law enforcement and carrying a concealed weapon, you must advise the officer of the presence of a firearm either on your person or otherwise present.
I don't care what the website says, I'm going off of what I have in my hand with my signature on it, which is the permit.
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Old 02-16-2013, 1:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epilepticninja View Post
I don't care what the website says, I'm going off of what I have in my hand with my signature on it, which is the permit.
I stand corrected - Just checked my new License and the verbiage is different from the website.

Looks like we only have to advise if we are carrying on our person or "otherwise present"...
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Old 02-24-2013, 5:58 PM
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FYI- on the laminating of your permit.
CA law states that it may be laminated. My issuing authority says not to, because some idiots will fold it- then laminate it, so you can't see the restrictions.
However, I have laminated my unfolded permit in the past, and it pissed them off when I had it renewed. I told them it is a perfectly legal according to law. They accepted that, and said it's mainly because they don't like to issue a new permit if you have to add or delete a weapon.
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Old 02-27-2013, 8:14 PM
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My permit expires in july when should I requalify and do my appointment?
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Old 02-27-2013, 8:20 PM
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My permit expires in july when should I requalify and do my appointment?
I made my Renewal Appointment for 2 1/2 weeks before my CCW Expiration date, and then scheduled my CCW Requalify class a week and a half before that.

Right now, the Renewal Appointments look to be fairly open, but I would book it online in late April or May to make sure you get one scheduled for June...
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Old 03-06-2013, 5:58 PM
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Hopefully you guys can fill me in on this. The website says nothing about NOT accepting any DMV paperwork as proof of residency, and I live with my parents, and the only documentation is my license and registration. I have no utility bills, nothing like that. What can I do?
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Old 03-06-2013, 6:12 PM
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Hopefully you guys can fill me in on this. The website says nothing about NOT accepting any DMV paperwork as proof of residency, and I live with my parents, and the only documentation is my license and registration. I have no utility bills, nothing like that. What can I do?
Email them and ask: ccw@sacsheriff.com
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Old 03-06-2013, 7:20 PM
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Attention CCW Modification:

If you are going in to MODIFY your CCW (i.e. address change, name correction, adding/removing firearms) you will need to fill out one of these forms. Unfortunately this form is NOT located on the Sac Sheriff website and the only place to get it is in person when you're waiting to be seen at the time of your appointment.

I snagged an extra and uploaded it here for anyone that wants to fill it out in advance.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Sac CCW Modification.pdf (333.0 KB, 46 views)
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Old 04-08-2013, 5:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domino View Post
This is what it says in red ink at the bottom of the permit now....


Not Valid if consuming alcohol or remaining at any establishment that primarily serves alcohol. If contacted by law enforcement and carrying a concealed weapon , you must advise the officer of the presence of a firearm either on your person or otherwise present.

This to me means if you are not carrying you have no obligation to give them your ccw.
What if I go to Applebee's to eat dinner? Their primary purpose is to serve food but they serve drinks as well.

Can anyone clarify this?
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Old 04-08-2013, 6:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TBX View Post
What if I go to Applebee's to eat dinner? Their primary purpose is to serve food but they serve drinks as well.

Can anyone clarify this?
You answered your own question:

License:
"Not Valid if consuming alcohol or remaining at any establishment that primarily serves alcohol."

Applebee's:
"Their primary purpose is to serve food..."
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Old 04-08-2013, 6:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powderedtoastman View Post
Hopefully you guys can fill me in on this. The website says nothing about NOT accepting any DMV paperwork as proof of residency, and I live with my parents, and the only documentation is my license and registration. I have no utility bills, nothing like that. What can I do?
Comcast bill will work.
I just show my work salary paystub and comcast bill. I give them a photo copy of it and they accept it as my proof of residency.
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Old 04-08-2013, 6:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quiet-wyatt View Post
You answered your own question:

License:
"Not Valid if consuming alcohol or remaining at any establishment that primarily serves alcohol."

Applebee's:
"Their primary purpose is to serve food..."
Thanks.. I would assume this restriction will only apply to Bars and Night Clubs, which I would would never take a firearm to.

It looks like my sister's wedding is a GTG for carry, although it'll have a full bar.
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  #36  
Old 04-09-2013, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by akoba View Post
Comcast bill will work.
I just show my work salary paystub and comcast bill. I give them a photo copy of it and they accept it as my proof of residency.
I'm in the same situation... no utility bills and live in a house not under my name, no lease agreement.

I do have my car registration and my paystubs, but I cant remember if that has my address on there..
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  #37  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:04 PM
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thanks
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  #38  
Old 05-16-2013, 9:42 AM
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My CCW class last month did not tell us that we had to inform an officer if stopped. Their training materials said the law did not require this. This was something I was not sure about and was going to err on the side of caution and show my permit if stopped, as my LEO friends said most officers would appreciate knowing.

Thank you for the info.
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  #39  
Old 05-16-2013, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by camcojb View Post
My CCW class last month did not tell us that we had to inform an officer if stopped. Their training materials said the law did not require this. This was something I was not sure about and was going to err on the side of caution and show my permit if stopped, as my LEO friends said most officers would appreciate knowing.

Thank you for the info.
Your class instructor was accurate. The law does NOT require you to inform the officer. This is merely the arbitrary policy/restriction that Sacramento county put on their license. It's up to you if you want to follow it or not, however just realize they have the power to revoke your license if you are found out. I would strongly recommend informing the officer in the interest of your personal safety. Otherwise you risk getting shot by the untrained, nervous, trigger-happy rookies out there if they spot your gun at the wrong moment. You have to understand from an LEO mindset, they are expecting the worst out of every encounter. It is a product of their own survival mechanism, you can't fault them. They generally don't associate people who carry guns as good guys, just be as open and honest as possible should you ever have to deal with an LEO while CCWing, and hope for the best.
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  #40  
Old 05-16-2013, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camcojb View Post
My CCW class last month did not tell us that we had to inform an officer if stopped. Their training materials said the law did not require this. This was something I was not sure about and was going to err on the side of caution and show my permit if stopped, as my LEO friends said most officers would appreciate knowing.

Thank you for the info.
First, where did you do your training?

Second, Its true that it is not in the Penal Code that being said however it is a stipulation of exercising the Sac Co issued permit.
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