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  #41  
Old 02-21-2013, 7:17 PM
Hoagiem Hoagiem is offline
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This is odd. I went back and exchanged the hogue p13 grips for a set of hogue grips for a p12 today and they fit perfect, holes line up, tabs in place and perfectly flush at the bottom of the receiver. I wonder if sarco has multiple sizes of these and it is a crap shoot on what you get. The center to center distance for the grip screws on mine are right at 2.435". Would you mind measuring yours?
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  #42  
Old 02-21-2013, 7:28 PM
Hoagiem Hoagiem is offline
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It appears they do, in the picture that you show drilling the mag catch hole there is quite a bit of difference in the distance from the hole in frame under the grip to the grip screw location. One other difference is that mine has a 6 digit number stamped in the right side of the frame, I don't see that on yours. That changes things a bit.
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  #43  
Old 02-22-2013, 10:49 AM
brianbonedoc brianbonedoc is offline
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I am at work right now - I will measure them when I get home.
My Hogue grips may be slightly long as I did mill off a bit of the bottom of the frame as I messed up on milling the MSH rails and had to even everythign up after I did it.
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  #44  
Old 02-22-2013, 1:33 PM
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Here are a few quicky pics of my Sarco, Rudius and Para POF45(13+1) frames for reference.





Oops. A little trickier to post pics with my phone. I'll try again later from a pc.
Fixed.

Last edited by ck66; 02-22-2013 at 1:42 PM..
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  #45  
Old 02-22-2013, 2:36 PM
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So what is the price point advantage? Technical edge?
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  #46  
Old 02-22-2013, 3:02 PM
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I measured my Sarco and it was 2.67in from grip screw to grip screw - BUT I have another Sarco frame that I havent started working on that is 2.45ish!
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  #47  
Old 02-22-2013, 5:58 PM
Hoagiem Hoagiem is offline
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Yep, that sounds about right. Did you compare it to the other one? I have checked into the shorter one like mine and it seems that Para made 4 different size frames, 14, 13 12, 10. The 14 and 13 use standard colt parts, mainspring housing, sear spring and the usual over the counter stuff. The 12 and 10 used a shorter mainspring housing and a standard grip safety for the 12 but on the 10 they used both proprietary mainspring housing and grip safety and they both used the same sear spring...non standard. The mainspring housing I can live with, modify a standard for starters but the sear spring is gonna be a little tougher to come by. Smith & Alexander have a mainspring housing for all of them so it might be easier to just buy one. I haven't come up with a source for a sear spring yet. And if I am not mistaken Para is now only offering the full size and the Warthog, don't know for sure, the website isn't up yet. Magazines are another tricky ordeal. Might just cut it down to a warthog.
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  #48  
Old 02-22-2013, 6:51 PM
Hoagiem Hoagiem is offline
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I guess if it was easy everybody would be doing it. There really isn't a price point advantage unless you are set up to machine this into a working model completely yourself. Actually, by the time the money is spent on top quality parts it is probably more than picking one up at a gunshow, used. But, you know what you have. As far as a technical advantage, that comes into play when the person behind the controls is technically capable of producing a technical advantage. Other than that, we do it because we can.
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  #49  
Old 02-22-2013, 6:53 PM
Hoagiem Hoagiem is offline
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ck66, would you happen to have the dimension for the sear spring slot? I noticed your shorty has the slot cut.
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  #50  
Old 02-22-2013, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoagiem View Post
ck66, would you happen to have the dimension for the sear spring slot? I noticed your shorty has the slot cut.
I get between 3/64 to 1/16" x 3/8" from multiple measurements with both digital and dial calipers.
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  #51  
Old 02-23-2013, 5:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ck66 View Post
I get between 3/64 to 1/16" x 3/8" from multiple measurements with both digital and dial calipers.
The prints call out that dimension from the center of the mainspring housing pin on a standard 1911, do you have that dimension or what do you have from the bottom of the receiver?
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  #52  
Old 02-23-2013, 11:12 AM
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Interesting but looks like a complicated project...
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  #53  
Old 02-23-2013, 5:43 PM
brianbonedoc brianbonedoc is offline
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I went back and measured one of my previous frames that i received a month ago and its the same P13 size but my newest one is a shorty - P12 sized.

BTW - just got a P13 magazine and it fits perfectly - the mag catch locks it right in place.
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  #54  
Old 02-23-2013, 7:27 PM
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It must be a grab bag or different load of parts there. I was lucky enough to find a p12 mag and a p12/p10 mainspring housing, which lines up great in the short one. Smith and Alexander mainspring housing is the right size when you build the short one.
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  #55  
Old 02-23-2013, 8:12 PM
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Sure sounds like different loads going through the same part #. If it still matters, .167" from the bottom edge of the frame to the lower edge of the slot.
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  #56  
Old 02-24-2013, 12:33 PM
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Sounds like an interesting build, I received 2 and looks like they are the P12 configuration. You might want to recheck your mag release diameter, I believe that there is a shoulder cut with a reduction to .287 Diameter on the button side.
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  #57  
Old 02-24-2013, 2:39 PM
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Rangerdad- you are exactly right! I screwed up and drilled it too big and yesterday had to make a bushing on the lathe to reduce it down to the proper size
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  #58  
Old 02-24-2013, 5:21 PM
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ck66 thanks for the dimension.

If anybody is interested, the mag release hole is not in the same place as the 1911, cannot use it to set up zero on the receiver, unless somebody knows the dimension to the mag release from the slide release hole on these receivers. The top grip screw hole appears to be in the correct 1911 position, I will know more after I set it up and indicate it. I spent about three hours the other night measuring and marking the receiver until I finally found several locations to zero from. The plunger tube can be used to set horizontal zero and the thumb safety relief can be used to set vertical zero and double check the top grip screw hole. The slide release hole in front of the plunger tube back edge of hole can also be verified/used to set vertical zero. I am assuming that the bottom flat of the hole is good to use as another point to verify horizontal zero since it is a critical dimension, I will verify it when I finish my holding jig. subtle differences that can't be readily seen or determined by eye can turn this chunk of metal into just that, a chunk of metal.
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  #59  
Old 02-24-2013, 6:56 PM
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Thanks for the tips on the P12 - while I am waiting for the rest of the parts for my P13- I started my P12 frame - just faced the top, cut the rails and ejector holes.

Does anyone have dimensions for how short to cut the dust cover?
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  #60  
Old 02-25-2013, 3:38 AM
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I would hold off on cutting the dust cover so you can match it to the slide, after you fit the slide and barrel, and cut the lower locking lugs so you know exactly where the slide is going to stop. Then you can match the dust cover to the radius cut on the slide.
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  #61  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:32 AM
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Hoagiem - ok thanks.
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  #62  
Old 02-25-2013, 10:44 AM
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Like Hoagiem mentioned in a post earlier, you might want to verify that you have the right barrel ordered. It's cut for a para/clark and not a wilson/nowlin, I confirmed on my and it's definitely not cut for a wilson/nowlin. They aren't interchangeable. Possibly wrong info from Sarco again.
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  #63  
Old 02-25-2013, 5:26 PM
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Argh! I just thought it was the casting! Today I cut the slot for the W/N barrel! I guess we'll see. This sarco misinfo is driving me nuts!
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  #64  
Old 02-25-2013, 7:17 PM
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Ranger - I think you are right about the Clark/Para barrel. We'll see if I can get mine working despite using a W/N barrel. I am waiting for a 1/4 keyseat cutter so I can cut the slot for the mag catch lock and that should be the last of the tooling I need to finish the frame.

Hopefully w/ all my screwups on this P13, my P12 build will go smoother! Oh well, live and learn.
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  #65  
Old 02-26-2013, 9:43 AM
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Any new pics? So far its lookin good, my frames should be here on Friday.

-joe

Oh and btw, have you got your mag yet? I'm wondering if it all fits.
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  #66  
Old 02-26-2013, 12:15 PM
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I am on the fence about ordering a couple of these, it is really a shame that they cant seem to figure out what frame is what.

Other than mags and MSH what on these is different from a traditional 1911? Might have to get a couple to play with.
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  #67  
Old 02-26-2013, 12:21 PM
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I will post pics later but as Rangerdad said u need a Clark/para ramped barrel. I cut mine for Wilson nowlin and it didn't have the right support so I had to TIG weld some metal and recut it for the W/N ramp. It seems to be right so far.

I just got my commander slide from Fusion and lapped it in.

I will say that the dust cover length is just barely long enough for a commander slide.
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  #68  
Old 02-26-2013, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMR510 View Post
I am on the fence about ordering a couple of these, it is really a shame that they cant seem to figure out what frame is what.

Other than mags and MSH what on these is different from a traditional 1911? Might have to get a couple to play with.
You need a para trigger and para mag release because these are specific for the double stack
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  #69  
Old 02-26-2013, 3:22 PM
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There are magazines with 6,7,8, round capacities. They each have diferent cuts dimensions for mag release locations.

There could be other related factors according to a friend with 1911 experience.
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  #70  
Old 02-26-2013, 3:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpage View Post
There are magazines with 6,7,8, round capacities. They each have diferent cuts dimensions for mag release locations.

There could be other related factors according to a friend with 1911 experience.

So what's the point of having a double stack with the same amount of rounds as a single? Either im confused or you are.
-joe
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  #71  
Old 02-26-2013, 3:48 PM
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Here are the latest pics:
You can see the Wilson/Nowlin milled on the left, and the unmilled casting (for clark/para) on the right.


Here is the Wilson/Nowlin in place on my P13 build after much screwing up, rewelding, remilling . . .

Here is preliminary build, still waiting to cut the mag catch lock slot to hold mag catch release in place.







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  #72  
Old 02-26-2013, 4:20 PM
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So what kinda mag is that(sorry if I missed it before)?

-joe
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  #73  
Old 02-26-2013, 5:16 PM
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Those are Para factory P13 mags off eBay - 2/$75
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  #74  
Old 02-26-2013, 5:28 PM
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Bit the bullet and ordered a pair. If nothing else they will be good training for doing other frames in the future.
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  #75  
Old 02-26-2013, 6:00 PM
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SMR - your exactly right - for me it's just a training exercise for my Ares Rudius build- if the 80%s ever show up!

If I were you I would re read this thread backwards so you can avoid some of the mistakes made and sift thru the garbage info that sarco put out.
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  #76  
Old 02-26-2013, 6:12 PM
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Cool ima have to pick up some mags, I'm also waiting on ares...
-joe
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  #77  
Old 02-26-2013, 6:42 PM
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I think I should get one of these before I try to build a regular 1911 80% which one would you guys recommend C45287 or C45288? I know Brian got the C45287 frame but whats the difference between the 2?
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  #78  
Old 02-26-2013, 7:11 PM
Hoagiem Hoagiem is offline
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ssilver88, The sarco website shows a p12 for both part numbers you just listed. The 45287 is what everybody (on here anyway) has been ordering and getting a p12 or a p13. The 45288 is listed as an alloy (aluminum) light weight frame. Might get a p13 but you might not.
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  #79  
Old 02-26-2013, 7:12 PM
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I believe there the same thing except ones aluminum the other is steel... What type of machine do you plan to use to finish this 20-60% casting?

-joe
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Old 02-26-2013, 7:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoagiem View Post
ssilver88, The sarco website shows a p12 for both part numbers you just listed. The 45287 is what everybody (on here anyway) has been ordering and getting a p12 or a p13. The 45288 is listed as an alloy (aluminum) light weight frame. Might get a p13 but you might not.

You beat me too it =)

-joe
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