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  #1  
Old 02-10-2013, 3:22 PM
brianbonedoc brianbonedoc is offline
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Default Sarco 1911/P13 Build - In progress

OK, total novice here. I've never even shot a 1911. But Armed with some tools, the internet, and a CNC converted Harbor Freight X2 mill I decided to buy one of these Sarco P14 castings http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/widebody19...astings-3.aspx
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  #2  
Old 02-10-2013, 3:28 PM
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There are only a few holes in the casting to be able to measure off of.

First thing I did was to set up the frame in the mill and indicate it so it stood about even. This was difficult as the casting was slightly un-even.

Then I faced it w/ a 1/2in end mill such that the rail thickness was 0.105in

Then I had to measure the frame width - as the rails need to be milled down to 0.762in wide.
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  #3  
Old 02-10-2013, 3:32 PM
brianbonedoc brianbonedoc is offline
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OK - now to mill the sides and slide rails. For this I set up a program in mastercam to use a #305 Woodruff cutter and based the dimensions off of the 1911 blueprints.

This also radiused the front. I had to touch up the rails a bit manually.

Now the slide just barely gets started, it's very tight. But I figured I could now lap the slide to keep it very precise.
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  #4  
Old 02-10-2013, 3:39 PM
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Ok, now to cut the barrel seat.

For this I bought a cheap 18mm ball endmill off ebay. This is close to the correct diameter. The blueprints call for a 0.348in radius cut, and the 18mm (diameter) = 0.708in = 0.354in radius. Close enough for me.

I milled down 0.08in deep.

The barrel seemed to rest comfortably.
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  #5  
Old 02-10-2013, 3:42 PM
brianbonedoc brianbonedoc is offline
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So I was really excited to get the slide lapped and make it start looking like a pistol!

I got lapping compound for O'Reilly autoparts - it came with coarse and fine for about $5.

It took about 45min or so with the coarse paste, tapping the slide on and off the frame, back and forth. But it finally fit. Then I followed up with the fine paste and its smooth as butter.
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  #6  
Old 02-10-2013, 3:44 PM
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Only problem is the dust cover is a little short using my standard slide.

Anyone have any ideas? Do I have to use a 4.25in slide?
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  #7  
Old 02-10-2013, 3:48 PM
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That's as far as I got today. Next I will program the CNC to drill pilot holes in the right location for the thumb safety, slide stop, hammer pin and on the top for the extractor holes, and off to the right side for the mag catch slot.
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  #8  
Old 02-10-2013, 3:49 PM
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If anyone has any tips or tricks PLEASE chime in!
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  #9  
Old 02-10-2013, 4:08 PM
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Don't have any tips, but I'm watching this closely
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  #10  
Old 02-10-2013, 4:38 PM
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I used a piece of ChrMo tubing, split it, and tig welded it in place for the dust cover extension on a Enterprise Arms frame. Aircraft Spruce Specialty carries a lot of cool stuff.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search...tubing&x=0&y=0
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Old 02-10-2013, 4:54 PM
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Good idea - although the last time I tried to TIG ChroMoly tubing I made swiss cheese out of it!
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Old 02-10-2013, 4:55 PM
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Interesting and cool project. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 02-10-2013, 5:15 PM
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Quote:
Good idea - although the last time I tried to TIG ChroMoly tubing I made swiss cheese out of it!
Call a friend!
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Old 02-10-2013, 5:23 PM
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watching i like 1911 builds
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  #15  
Old 02-10-2013, 7:45 PM
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When did you get the blank? How long did it take for them to ship?

I thought these were stainless steel?

This looks to be a double stack. Where are you finding any specific info on these Sarcos?

I commend you on your fearlessness.

Keep us all posted.
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Old 02-10-2013, 8:12 PM
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keep us updated!
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  #17  
Old 02-10-2013, 8:42 PM
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They took a couple weeks to ship - I don't know if its stainless - it's magnetic but that's not always indicative.

It is a double stack - they say like a P13/14 frame. You can see its dust cover is too short fit full 5" so I will likely buy a commander 4.25in slide.
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Old 02-10-2013, 9:06 PM
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I have some 17-4PH stainless that is magnetic.

Not sure how magnetic or if it will lock down on a surface grinder mag table. I may find out.

How are you finding the Sarco frame dimension wise? All doable? Any areas where they will be a pain to finish?

I just ordered a 17-4PH frame but know there is a lot of work to do there.

Is the slide lock / safety plunger tube already drilled?
I saw a neat way to drill a hole that you can't get close to.
Involves making a guide block and clamping close to the tube and then use a long drill bit. The close guide steadies the drill.

Did you do your CNC conversion yourself?
I know a DRO is great but I would be lost with the CNC stuff.

I have been thinking I should have bought an Ed Brown complete and saved a lot of money compared to where I am at dollar wise, not to mention all the stress.

Where are you located?

Last edited by Calif Mini; 02-10-2013 at 9:09 PM..
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Old 02-11-2013, 7:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif Mini View Post
I have some 17-4PH stainless that is magnetic.

Not sure how magnetic or if it will lock down on a surface grinder mag table. I may find out.

How are you finding the Sarco frame dimension wise? All doable? Any areas where they will be a pain to finish?

I just ordered a 17-4PH frame but know there is a lot of work to do there.

Is the slide lock / safety plunger tube already drilled?
I saw a neat way to drill a hole that you can't get close to.
Involves making a guide block and clamping close to the tube and then use a long drill bit. The close guide steadies the drill.

Did you do your CNC conversion yourself?
I know a DRO is great but I would be lost with the CNC stuff.

I have been thinking I should have bought an Ed Brown complete and saved a lot of money compared to where I am at dollar wise, not to mention all the stress.

Where are you located?
I think the dimensions are fine except for the short dust cover. The ejector hole and mag release holes are undersized but that's fine. I don't have a magazine yet to try so I can't comment on that.

The plunger tube is not drilled - thanks for the advice! I will try something like that. If I screw it up I will just mill the whole thing off and put on a traditional 1911 one.

My CNC conversion I did myself with a kit from cnc fusion.com. It wasn't that hard. The problem is the mill is pretty small and not really rigid enough for much steel work.
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Old 02-11-2013, 2:02 PM
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What type of parts does this take? Para I'm assuming...
I bought a G0704 and cnced it recently, I'm currently working on the home switches and oilers

-joe
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Old 02-11-2013, 2:34 PM
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Parts-wise it's mostly 1911, a few things are Para specific: magazine, mag release, trigger, maybe slide stop?

Here is the update:

I programmed the CNC to zero off the slide catch slot which has a diameter of 0.237, and came out of the casting right on. From here I had the CNC spot drill a starter hole for the slide release, and the trigger and thumb safety holes. Once I had the spot holes, I came back with the mill using it as a drill press with the right sized drill bit according to the blueprints, I slightly undersized the holes incase the drill had any wobble.

I drilled these holes all the way through to the other side.
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  #22  
Old 02-11-2013, 3:37 PM
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Lookin good bro

Where you located btw

Last edited by mr.; 02-11-2013 at 3:51 PM..
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  #23  
Old 02-11-2013, 6:51 PM
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Ventura County
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Old 02-12-2013, 4:42 PM
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So today I measured the disconnector hole and it was on spec right from the casting. This allowed me to zero the CNC off of it, and drill the holes for the ejector. I started with a 3/32 center drill to 0.125 for both holes, and finished with the 1/8 drill for the front hole, .33in deep - per the blueprints.
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Old 02-12-2013, 4:47 PM
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Next I enlarged the Mag catch hole to 5/16 (0.313). Then I used this as the zero to mill the slot for the mag catch on the right side, using the CNC and a 3/16in end mill.
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Old 02-14-2013, 5:05 PM
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I realized when I got the Hogue P14 grips that this frame is actually a P13 sized - which means I need to get an Officers sized mainspring housing and a P13 magazine.

Today I drilled out the built in plunger tube. I used a 3/32 long drill with the frame mounted in a vice in my drill press. I didnt realize that the forward part of the plunger tube is actually a little smaller than 3/32. So I took a smaller drill bit and welded it to a nail so I could reach far enough down. It worked out great.
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  #27  
Old 02-14-2013, 9:25 PM
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That explains the short dust cover, ima order some of these frames this weekend. Is that link exactly what you ordered?
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Old 02-15-2013, 5:59 AM
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Mr. - yes that's the link!
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  #29  
Old 02-15-2013, 8:39 AM
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Very nice! Watching
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Old 02-17-2013, 2:56 PM
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Any new updates? I just ordered a few to play with.

-joe
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Old 02-20-2013, 5:19 PM
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That frame is actually a p12 frame. The frame is cut for a clark/para ramped barrel which means that the impact surface for the lower lugs is missing, the radius at the front of the magwell at the barrel seat is for the impact surface of the barrel. When you drill the slide release and set the barrel in the frame you will see that the front end of the magwell that you cut for a barrel seat will disappear if try to cut a feed ramp at the top of the magwell. The clark/para is an easier install of the two ramped barrel styles. But, you can use a commander or an officers slide on this frame. Good luck with this project!
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Old 02-20-2013, 6:09 PM
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Funny sarco lists it as a p13/14 so do these frames take p12 or p13 mags? Are they the same mag?

-joe

Last edited by mr.; 02-20-2013 at 6:15 PM..
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Old 02-20-2013, 6:37 PM
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Yeah, sarco has there numbers mixed up, but a p13 set of hogue grips are too long. The mags I am not sure about just yet, and I am not sure an officers model mainspring housing will fit, it might be about 0.100" too long. It looks doable though, might take a bit more scrounging to find all the right parts though.
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Old 02-20-2013, 6:48 PM
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I noticed that on the p14 has 2 holes on the grip(longer frame) and the "p13" has only one.. The double action frames are para lda frames correct?
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Old 02-20-2013, 7:00 PM
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My Hogue grips seem to fit. At least the grip screw holes line up perfectly.

The mainspring housing uses an officers size - I ordered the Kimber Polymer one - I don't think its too long, I machined the slots for the MSH the other day. I will have to take a pic.

As far as the barrel goes, I ordered a commander length w/ a Wilson/Nowlin ramp from Fusion, along w/ a Commander Slide. Hopefully I can get it to fit.

I still haven't received my magazines yet so I can't comment on that aspect.
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:25 AM
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Is that frame 80%? or it requires FFL?
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Old 02-21-2013, 2:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianbonedoc View Post
My Hogue grips seem to fit. At least the grip screw holes line up perfectly.

The mainspring housing uses an officers size - I ordered the Kimber Polymer one - I don't think its too long, I machined the slots for the MSH the other day. I will have to take a pic.

As far as the barrel goes, I ordered a commander length w/ a Wilson/Nowlin ramp from Fusion, along w/ a Commander Slide. Hopefully I can get it to fit.

I still haven't received my magazines yet so I can't comment on that aspect.
What is the part number on the grips? I just picked up a set yesterday listed for the para ordnance p-13, with a 11000 tag on the package. There is a p13 molded into the inside of the right grip panel. The little sticker on the package says they are for the para p13 and the enterprise arms p325.

The top screw and the trigger track tabs line up perfectly and the grip fits like a glove, but the bottom screw is off by about 1/4" and the panels are about the same too long for the frame. That is weird, spose I got a set that are mis-marked?

I'll return them today and take the frame with me to see what matches. I hope these grips are wrong.
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Old 02-21-2013, 6:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekkno View Post
Is that frame 80%? or it requires FFL?
Is this a serious question? Maby you need to do a little more research..... I'd call it a 20% or so

-joe
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  #39  
Old 02-21-2013, 2:32 PM
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Here are some pics of the mainspring housing and beavertail safety I installed. I initially screwed up the groove for the MSH, so I had to TIG weld in the groove and re-cut it. But it seems to work. For the beavertail - this is a Wilson Combat Bullet Proof style. I made a little jig out of a nail and washer that came close to the .25in radius and then just used my bench grinder and angle grinder to contour the frame.
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  #40  
Old 02-21-2013, 3:32 PM
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My Hogue grips are the 11000 model - labelled for the P13

Heres a link since I ran out of attachment space on CGN:

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