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  #1  
Old 12-14-2016, 11:38 PM
helloworld567 helloworld567 is offline
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Default Rebarrelled type 38 arisaka

I got a type 38 arisaka from GunBroker, intact mum, everything's cool. But when I loaded a 6.5mm jap round in the chamber, closed the action, then open it again without firing, the round will be left in the chamber instead of being ejected.

I did some research online and suspected the rifle had been rechambered to take 6.5x257 Robert or some other caliber. It was a very popular conversion in the 50s due to ammo availability. However I find it easier to get 6.5mm jap instead of 6.5x257 Robert nowadays

Should I get an original type 38 barrel and swap it out? I am not planning to get into reloading BTW, cause I don't shoot that often so prefer commercially available ammo.

Any other suggestions are welcome. Thanks!


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  #2  
Old 12-15-2016, 5:49 AM
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Is the extractor OK? I wouldn't make the assumption it was rechambered without doing a chamber cast.

Re-barrelling it will remove any collector value, and will certainly cost more in the end that selling it and buying an unmolested rifle.

Last edited by emcon5; 12-15-2016 at 6:01 AM.. Reason: extractor, not ejector
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  #3  
Old 12-15-2016, 5:53 AM
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Is the extractor intact? Have you taken the rifle out of the stock to check for markings on the barrel which might indicate the rechamber?

Take some pics of the breech face and extractor claw...We will he able to tell 8f it's okay or not.

There is no commercial source for original jap barrels. You would have to get a custom barrel made and installed. .. which would cost more than you paid for the rifle if you replace what you have now
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Old 12-15-2016, 8:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT-40 View Post
Is the extractor intact? Have you taken the rifle out of the stock to check for markings on the barrel which might indicate the rechamber?

Take some pics of the breech face and extractor claw...We will he able to tell 8f it's okay or not.

There is no commercial source for original jap barrels. You would have to get a custom barrel made and installed. .. which would cost more than you paid for the rifle if you replace what you have now


I have this pic in my phone right now. Do you think the extractor is altered? Gonna take off the barrel from stock and check when I get home.

I am thinking of getting a surplus barrels. There are some for sale on eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/152200152210 haven't check too closely tho.




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  #5  
Old 12-15-2016, 9:54 AM
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Here is mine.



It looks like there is a chunk missing from your extractor, but it may be a strange shadow. When you get home post a photo of it out of the rifle.
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File Type: jpg arisaka_bolt_face.jpg (38.5 KB, 191 views)
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  #6  
Old 12-15-2016, 10:19 AM
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It looks like the extractor has been replaced or redone, it also could be a late war rifle, towards the end of the war these things were made out in the back woods in someones hutch as most of the factory's were rubble by then, this could account for the funny looking extractor.(it does look to be filed on)

On 38 Ariska there should be a "B" or a "S" proof mark stamped somewhere on the barrel, if yours has been re-barreled to the 6.5x257 Robert cartridge then this stamp will be missing.

The "B" was switched to an "S" in or around the 800,000 serial number range.
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  #7  
Old 12-15-2016, 10:45 AM
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Did you feed the cartridge from the magazine into the chamber or did you drop the cartridge on the follower and feed it on top of the follower?

Try feeding the cartridge from the magazine.
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Old 12-15-2016, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryl View Post
if yours has been re-barreled to the 6.5x257 Robert cartridge then this stamp will be missing.
I don't think they were converted by rebarreling them, but by running a Roberts reamer into the existing 6.5 Japanese chamber. The barrels were original, and would have the original proofs.
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  #9  
Old 12-15-2016, 10:49 AM
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You may have one of the very rare type 38K. Kamakazi versions only took one round.
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  #10  
Old 12-15-2016, 11:11 AM
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Your extractor looks fine to me.

Is your Type 38 in original configuration? Or is it Sporter? If it has been altered on the outside for hunting it very likely could have been re-chambered. Show us some pictures of the whole rifle.

Have you tried loading from the magazine and not putting the round in the chamber? Loading directly into the chamber can be bad for the extractors.
It may not be getting over the rim.

Type 38's are known to have overly large chambers that may be allowing the shell fall out of the extractor. Large chambers have been known to cause bulged fire formed brass.

It might be smart at this point to get a chamber cast dune to be shore what caliber it is.
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  #11  
Old 12-15-2016, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLIGHT762 View Post
Did you feed the cartridge from the magazine into the chamber or did you drop the cartridge on the follower and feed it on top of the follower?

Try feeding the cartridge from the magazine.
This. You can't drop a round in the chamber and then close the bolt on a controlled feed design.
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  #12  
Old 12-15-2016, 12:32 PM
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To me it appears someone "opened up" the bolt face with a mill to accept a cartridge with a larger diameter case head.....

The bolt face is way to nice and clean to be original.
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  #13  
Old 12-15-2016, 1:18 PM
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Assume nothing.........Check everything.

First things first......as others said, check extractor.

Remove bolt from rifle. While holding the bolt in horizontal position. Slide a loaded cartridge "up" frnt of bolt face, and under extractor claw. It should stay there once you release it from your fingers. If it doesn't, it needs replacing, or at least proper fitting and adjustment.

SVT-40 said

Quote:
To me it appears someone "opened up" the bolt face with a mill to accept a cartridge with a larger diameter case head.....

The bolt face is way to nice and clean to be original.
Bolt face being opened is hard to tell from pic. OP's bolt has heavier chamber Chamfer on upper outside surface than other pics. Could be deceptive.

Definitely had the face cleaned up. Which necessitates that the extractor also be reworked to proper clearance from bolt face.

JM2c

Last edited by pacrat; 12-15-2016 at 1:35 PM..
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  #14  
Old 12-15-2016, 10:06 PM
helloworld567 helloworld567 is offline
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It's my first post on calguns and I didn't expect so many replies. Thank you so much you guys are awesome

I went ahead disassembled the rifle and took more pics














To answer some of the questions

The rifle is in original condition not sporterized, at least cosmetically. No caliber info on barrel at all. I did load rounds from magazine not directly into chamber.

Also I noticed that if I pointed muzzle up and cycle the bolt the round can be extracted but not ejected. If pointing muzzle down the rounds can not be extracted at all. Feels like there is some small gap between the round and the extractor and the extractor can only catch when the rounds was pulled by the gravity towards it.

If it is only replacing or adjusting the extractor that's great. Much better than working with barrel


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  #15  
Old 12-16-2016, 8:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryl View Post
...it also could be a late war rifle, towards the end of the war these things were made out in the back woods in someones hutch as most of the factory's were rubble by then...,
Complete and total BS.
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Old 12-16-2016, 8:32 AM
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Is the bore still 6.5? Bolt face is cut for a magnum. Might have a .264 WM. Maybe a 6.5 Rem mag.
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Old 12-16-2016, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milsurp Collector View Post
Complete and total BS.
I agree There were very few Type 38's made in 44 or 45. Most are early nineteen forty's and pre-war rifles of high quality.

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Is the bore still 6.5? Bolt face is cut for a magnum. Might have a .264 WM. Maybe a 6.5 Rem mag.
I don't think his bolt is altered at all. It looks just like mine and the others posted.

It looks like you have a Type 38 rifle (Series 26) made at the Kokura plant in Japan close to 1940.
http://oldmilitarymarkings.com/japanese_markings.html

If your Arisaka has not been re-chambered I think you have an extremely large chamber that will cause bulged brass and in extreme cases like yours maybe bad extraction. Mine bulges cases also.

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=30129
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...tridge.557440/

You need to get your rifle head spaced to be sure it is OK to shoot. Also have it verified for the correct caliber in case it has been re-chambered. It may be safe to shoot but better have it checked to be safe. It is possible that after you fire the case will fire form the the chamber and extract normally.

If you are determined to shoot it you can strap it down and use a string tied to the trigger. Examine the fired brass. It will most likely be bulged a little if normal.


This is what it looks like if it has been re-chambered to .257 Roberts.
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  #18  
Old 12-16-2016, 12:01 PM
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Take it to a gunsmith and have a chamber cast done to see what it is really chambered in.
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  #19  
Old 12-16-2016, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Springfield45 View Post
I agree There were very few Type 38's made in 44 or 45. Most are early nineteen forty's and pre-war rifles of high quality.
That's correct, Kokura ended Type 38 production in 1941 and Nagoya and Jinsen ended Type 38 production in 1942. Production switched to the newer Type 99 design.

Second, most of the factories making Type 99 rifles were not "rubble by then" (late in the war). Production continued right up to the end of the war. I have a Series 35 Type 99 that has one of highest reported serial numbers of the last Toyo Kogyo series. It was made weeks if not days before the atomic bomb was dropped a few kilometers away in Hiroshima. The Kokura Arsenal was in the city that was the primary target of the second atom bomb mission, but when it was obscured by clouds and smoke the mission went to the secondary target, Nagasaki.

Furthermore, late war Type 99 rifles were never made "out in the back woods in someones hutch". Some woodwork was subcontracted outside of the factories, but the rifles were made in factories. As I said, that post was total BS.
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Old 12-17-2016, 9:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milsurp Collector View Post
That's correct, Kokura ended Type 38 production in 1941 and Nagoya and Jinsen ended Type 38 production in 1942. Production switched to the newer Type 99 design.

Second, most of the factories making Type 99 rifles were not "rubble by then" (late in the war). Production continued right up to the end of the war. I have a Series 35 Type 99 that has one of highest reported serial numbers of the last Toyo Kogyo series. It was made weeks if not days before the atomic bomb was dropped a few kilometers away in Hiroshima. The Kokura Arsenal was in the city that was the primary target of the second atom bomb mission, but when it was obscured by clouds and smoke the mission went to the secondary target, Nagasaki.

Furthermore, late war Type 99 rifles were never made "out in the back woods in someones hutch". Some woodwork was subcontracted outside of the factories, but the rifles were made in factories. As I said, that post was total BS.
As stated in the history books...But when the large city's and factory's came under the sights of the B29's the Japanese took notice, so the sub-components (screws, springs, bolt parts, stocks, butt plates and other small stuff) were delegated out to smaller factory's lying in smaller towns and villages, these parts were then assembled at the main arsenal and proofed there.

This also helped the main arsenal keep up with the big demand.

Three weeks after the war my Dad was part of the unit that looked over the left overs of the country's industrial infrastructure, there was nothing left in MOST big city's, but the smaller towns and villages that were untouched by the B29 bombing raids had a surprising industrial infrastructure (small but effective) left standing.

Some of the small factory's around the main arsenal had boxes of parts labeled and waiting for shipment to the main plant.

So this "Boots on the ground" info about most of the factory's lying in ruin was told to me by him, I do not delegate it as BS.

And if you look at my post about this, I did not directly say that the main arsenal was bombed, it and other industry's in that city were left UN-touched as they were top targets for the "gadget" as it was called, and were left off any target list, this to see how well it worked, and it did work.

My Farther had a nice collection of 38's and 99's, some were early models some were late war, most went to my brother when he died, I got a late war model 99, (in 7.7) had it been produced a few years earlier it would have never left the factory.
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Old 12-17-2016, 9:47 AM
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I think it would be a better idea for someone with a true "38" to measure the diameter between the bolt lips and supply this info to him, then he can do the same measurement on his bolt, as it does not look right. (compare his bolt photo to the one below it)

Taking it out and firing it would not be a good idea, not if the bolt is the wrong one, (for a model 99 in 7.7) or if someone has mickey moused it together.
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Old 12-17-2016, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryl View Post

And if you look at my post about this, I did not directly say that the main arsenal was bombed,
C'mon, you're only making it worse.

Quote:
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it also could be a late war rifle, towards the end of the war these things were made out in the back woods in someones hutch as most of the factory's [sic] were rubble by then,
Again, the OP is talking about a Type 38. No "late war" Type 38's.

Then you said "these things" - and since we're talking about a Type 38 rifle, that implies "these things" are rifles, not small parts - "were made out in the back woods in someones hutch". Again, BS.

Then you said "as most of the factory's [sic] were rubble by then". Sure, much of Japan's industrial capacity - and cities in general - had been bombed, but the factories making Arisaka rifles were still up and running. So if an aircraft factory or shipyard factory was in rubble at the end of the war, that wouldn't cause a Type 38 - production of which had pretty much ended in 1942 - to be "made out in the back woods in someones hutch." Nor were late war Type 99 rifles "made out in the back woods in someones hutch."
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Old 12-17-2016, 11:24 AM
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Yah BS................
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  #24  
Old 12-30-2016, 1:11 PM
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If you are in the Bay Area, you can compare it to my T38 carbine. I'm betting that it was rechamberd to the Roberts cartridge. Replacing it with another barrel would be a pita for sure, unless you knew someone with gunsmithing skills.
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