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Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

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Old 04-10-2018, 5:10 PM
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Default Short Barrel Muzzle Loader

Does anybody know the legality of making a short barrel rifle out of an inline muzzle loader? Like putting a full stock on this?


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Last edited by diverwcw; 04-10-2018 at 6:43 PM..
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Old 04-10-2018, 7:23 PM
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You mean a short barreled black powder muzzle loading rifle? I am curious and would like to know as well, I know federal laws don't apply but I wouldn't be surprised if California rules on length applied
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Old 04-10-2018, 7:57 PM
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I think it wood be the same as if you used a detachable stock on a pistol like this. So Legal.

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Old 04-10-2018, 8:02 PM
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Legal. I have a buttstock for my 20ga Howdah SxS pistol. BP firearms are exempt from SBS/SBR/AW even in CA.
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Old 04-10-2018, 8:02 PM
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Does that make short double barreled shotguns fall under the same definition? Under 16 barrels like 10 inch and modified stocks. I think those old hammer jobs got a lot of use during the alcohol prohibition era. What is the difference except for the extra barrel?
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Old 04-10-2018, 8:09 PM
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Originally Posted by warbird View Post
Does that make short double barreled shotguns fall under the same definition? Under 16 barrels like 10 inch and modified stocks. I think those old hammer jobs got a lot of use during the alcohol prohibition era. What is the difference except for the extra barrel?
Yes they are legal if black powder. Buy a SxS BP shotgun and get to chopping.

My 20ga SxS (side by side) Howdah has 11" barrels. Also uses shotgun primers for ignition Buttstock is removable.

Looks like this

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Old 04-10-2018, 8:16 PM
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i do not want to even think about how many old italian "shortened" shotguns I gave up through the years when they were offered to me because everyone said they violated federal and state laws being under 16 inch barrels and having pistols grips even with an add-on for the stock. Nice to know. What about black powder cartridge with hammers. I suspect the only legal ones have to be loaded from the front. Am I correct? Thanks

Last edited by big red; 04-10-2018 at 8:18 PM..
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Old 04-10-2018, 8:25 PM
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Originally Posted by big red View Post
i do not want to even think about how many old italian "shortened" shotguns I gave up through the years when they were offered to me because everyone said they violated federal and state laws being under 16 inch barrels and having pistols grips even with an add-on for the stock. Nice to know. What about black powder cartridge with hammers. I suspect the only legal ones have to be loaded from the front. Am I correct? Thanks
Don't get it twisted: a centerfire short barrel shotgun is illegal without a NFA stamp. Big time illegal. It does not matter if the cartridges use black powder propellant.

We are talking about black powder/muzzle loader here only - that means it loads from the muzzle, aka 'the front' or 'the business end'.

It is legal on a federal level to have a pistol grip centerfire shotgun with 14" barrels, but not legal in CA. And not legal in any state to attach a stock to them without a NFA stamp. Check out the Mossberg Shockwave (not legal in CA)
https://www.mossberg.com/category/series/590-shockwave/

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Old 04-10-2018, 9:07 PM
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the more this type is clarified as to what is legal and what is not legal the better for everyone. Thanks to everyone who helping to prevent some NFA mistakes. I am sure there are some prohibition muzzle loading double barreled black powder relics out there with Italian roots (LOL). The Howdah looks good unless someone just has to make their own.

Last edited by warbird; 04-10-2018 at 9:10 PM..
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Old 04-10-2018, 9:22 PM
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Buy a 12ga Pedersoli muzzle loading coach gun and chop it how you like. They are not cheap though.
https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/sch...coach-gun.html





Or just go for the 20ga Baker Cavalry, which is basically the Howdah with a fixed stock.
https://www.emf-company.com/store/pc...otgun-c473.htm

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Old 04-11-2018, 10:36 AM
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Not much help, but I think there was an issue with the CVA pistol having a different stock screw angle than the rifle. I’ve always loved the idea of a stubby front stuffer - there is also that blunderbuss kit I’ve seen floating around.
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Old 04-13-2018, 5:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird View Post
the more this type is clarified as to what is legal and what is not legal the better for everyone. Thanks to everyone who helping to prevent some NFA mistakes. I am sure there are some prohibition muzzle loading double barreled black powder relics out there with Italian roots (LOL). The Howdah looks good unless someone just has to make their own.
Under CA laws...

Some types of "antique firearms" [PC 16170] are exempt from CA generally prohibited weapons laws (which includes SBR, SBS, etc [PC 16590]) [PC 17700].


Penal Code 16170
(c) As used in Section 17700, “antique firearm” means either of the following:
(1) Any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898. This includes any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898.
(2) Any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

Penal Code 17700
The provisions listed in Section 16590 do not apply to any antique firearm.

Penal Code 16590
As used in this part, “generally prohibited weapon” means any of the following:
(f) A camouflaging firearm container, as prohibited by Section 24310.
(g) A cane gun, as prohibited by Section 24410.
(k) A firearm that is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, as prohibited by Section 24510.
(t) A short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun, as prohibited by Section 33215.
(v) An unconventional pistol, as prohibited by Section 31500.
(w) An undetectable firearm, as prohibited by Section 24610.
(z) A zip gun, as prohibited by Section 33600.
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