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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

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  #1  
Old 02-04-2013, 7:15 AM
ap3572001 ap3572001 is offline
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Default CCW encounter......

What would You do in this situation.

You are at Starbucks with Your partner on a weekday morning.
Working day shift in a NICE part of town.
While waiting for Your drinks , You BOTH notice a man in line who has a bulge behind His right hip, under His sweater that CLEARLY looks like a handgun.

TO YOU , He does not look like an off duty officer.

The people who work at that Starbucks act like they know the man.

Based on the situation described above , what would You do ?

Would You do anything at all?

Thanks.

Last edited by ap3572001; 02-04-2013 at 1:34 PM..
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  #2  
Old 02-04-2013, 7:53 AM
ap3572001 ap3572001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontClaire View Post
REMOVED
Really ? Sound like stupid thing to do ... OR TO SAY.

Last edited by Kestryll; 02-04-2013 at 1:17 PM..
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  #3  
Old 02-04-2013, 7:55 AM
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spetsnaz spetsnaz is offline
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Mind your own business. I don't get the point of asking him anyyhing
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  #4  
Old 02-04-2013, 7:59 AM
ap3572001 ap3572001 is offline
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Originally Posted by spetsnaz View Post
Mind your own business. I don't get the point of asking him anyyhing
Are You LE? This question is for another LEO.

Last edited by ap3572001; 02-04-2013 at 8:07 AM..
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  #5  
Old 02-04-2013, 8:24 AM
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Why do you want another LEOs opinion? You are a LEO. Stop keeping things inside your little circle, you only serve to alienate yourselves.

While it is your business to see if the man can legally carry, I would take cautions to not embarrass the man or cause a scene in a crowded place(stop supporting starbucks btw..). I would have waited until he got his items, then stepped outside with him and asked.
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  #6  
Old 02-04-2013, 8:24 AM
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Cop here... I wouldn't do a damn thing. My belief that I think I see a gun is not enough for me to force an encounter for a fishing expedition. Between phones and medical devices, there are a hell of a lot of things on people's belts. Also, I often look nothing like a cop when out and about, but I'm always carrying.

Would I keep an eagle on him? Absolutely.
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  #7  
Old 02-04-2013, 8:26 AM
Galli1565 Galli1565 is offline
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You could consensual contact him (outside of Starbucks) and ask if he is a CCW holder. If he is most of the CCW holders I contact are more than willing to show you their credentials and gun. After you discover he is code 4 you could talk with him about holster selection and getting a better cover garment. All in all it's for his safety as you do not want a concerned citizen callin him in for a "man with a gun call"

In reality you don't have a lot to go on, In my opinion it would be an illegal detention if you stopped him just to look at a buldge under his shirt. Who knows, maybe it's a cell phone or insulin pump. Just be safe, you can never be "too careful"
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Old 02-04-2013, 8:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omnitravis View Post
Why do you want another LEOs opinion, you have one in your own head? Stop keeping things inside your little circle, you only serve to alienate yourselves.

While it is your business to see if the man can legally carry, I would take cautions to not embarrass the man or cause a scene in a crowded place(stop supporting starbucks btw..). I would have waited until he got his items, then stepped outside with him and asked.
Assuming the OP is an LEO, there is a reason a non-LEO's opinion was not solicited.

When we are in court answering to the people about why we did something, our actions are compared to that of another officer with the same training and experiences. No one can expect us to act in the same manner that a surgeon/teacher/CEO/fireman would. Its a long standing legal precedent.
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  #9  
Old 02-04-2013, 8:30 AM
ap3572001 ap3572001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
Cop here... I wouldn't do a damn thing. My belief that I think I see a gun is not enough for me to force an encounter for a fishing expedition. Between phones and medical devices, there are a hell of a lot of things on people's belts. Also, I often look nothing like a cop when out and about, but I'm always carrying.

Would I keep an eagle on him? Absolutely.
Thanks.
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  #10  
Old 02-04-2013, 1:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3572001 View Post
Really ? Sound like stupid thing .... ... OR TO SAY.
It was.
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  #11  
Old 02-04-2013, 1:25 PM
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I only ever begrudgingly set foot in coffee establishments on duty if my partner is one of those people addicted to caffeine, for the the sake of your question I will go along with this. Assuming this is like most Starbucks, he will not be handed his order right away. After having already discussed with my partner (and him/her agreeing that it looks like a gun), I would have my partner watch him while I go to to the barrista.

I would ask for something (water, whatever) and then ask her something like "Hey, who is that guy that just ordered ahead of me? He looks familiar. Does he come here often?" If she replies in the affirmative and says something like "Oh yeah, thats Bob and he always drops by after closing up his store" I would just watch him and be done with it. If she instead replied something like "I've only seen him once before and he just sat in the corner and didn't order anything. Tonight he seemed really nervous and when I asked what he wanted he stumbled over his words" I would seriously consider contacting him when he left the store.

A far as looking/not looking like an LEO, upstanding citizen, or whatever, that would only play a small role in whether or not I contact him. Many robbers and other "bad guys" don't look all that different from "good guys."

Unlike what at least one individual has posted on this thread already, we only need reasonable suspicion for the stop. That being said, based simply on the facts you stated above (absolutely no other info/action taken before a stop on your or the possible CCW'ers part) I wouldn't detain him. Like Eric B said, watch and wait.
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  #12  
Old 02-04-2013, 1:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troysland View Post
Am I correct in saying your job is to enforce the law? You are making an uninformed assumption that a potential CCW'er is breaking a law. Why would you pose the question? Do you feel CCW'ers are criminals? Your thoughts and feelings must remain an assumption until a law is broken. Since when is "printing" a crime? I can't help but to see this thread is of the same opinion of all the anti's. That opinion is that anyone with a gun "must" be a criminal. It sucks and I know you wished you could do more but you can't prevent a crime until a crime is committed. It is called Law Enforcement, after all. Now, he enters a starbucks with an AR on his back....ok.
WOW!

Ok. We have some major problems here my friend....

1).My question was for other LEO's.

(Unless You are an LEO , You and Your partner DO NOT go to Starbucks after starting day watch partol LOL

2).I NEVER said that I think that everyone who carries a handun is breaking the law.

( I carry a handgun all the time and do not break the law)

3). I am very well aware that people who carry handguns with a CCW are not criminals ( I hope not)

4). I never said that "printing" was a crime. But "printing" CAN and WILL get You some attention.

Last edited by ap3572001; 02-04-2013 at 1:33 PM..
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  #13  
Old 02-04-2013, 1:32 PM
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I am NOT a LEO

My opinion would be like many others here to wait and watch.

The question you should ask yourself OP is how would you like another LEO or even a non LEO to handle the situation if the person with the "bulge" was you?
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  #14  
Old 02-04-2013, 2:14 PM
ap3572001 ap3572001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mullins View Post
I am NOT a LEO

My opinion would be like many others here to wait and watch.

The question you should ask yourself OP is how would you like another LEO or even a non LEO to handle the situation if the person with the "bulge" was you?
You got it !!!! LOL

That person WAS me . Off duty.

One of the officers asked me how was my morning . I said It was great , but that I was running late for work.

I told Him to be safe and went to my car.
I realised that my Glock was printing . A LOT.

I will never find out if He asked me how I am doing because He saw my gun.....
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Old 02-04-2013, 2:36 PM
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Thanks for the scenario AP. Newly carrying makes me wonder how LE view "mistakes" like printing. I'm sure everyone has there own way though.
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  #16  
Old 02-04-2013, 2:47 PM
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Not an LEO any more.

That's what you get for buying a big fat Glock!
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  #17  
Old 02-04-2013, 3:02 PM
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Probably nothing, as long as it was concealed.

Or I might stand behind him and breathe on his neck (this is sarcasm).
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  #18  
Old 02-04-2013, 3:07 PM
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I guess the question has been answered but I'm gonna chime in. I'm retired law enforcement. I wouldn't have done a darn thing with the exception of watch him.
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  #19  
Old 02-04-2013, 3:14 PM
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For me I think a lot would depend upon the person, is he acting normal or does he keep glancing toward me, like he is nervous. It comes down to is he printing badly or was it a momentary slip. If it is bad I would mention it, casually. I think there is some responsibility to carrying and one of those is to keep in concealed. We have to look out for each other, be it an off duty cop, or just a private person carrying.
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  #20  
Old 02-04-2013, 3:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winnre View Post
Not an LEO any more.

That's what you get for buying a big fat Glock!
Yep, this ^^^
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  #21  
Old 02-04-2013, 3:33 PM
GringoBandito6136 GringoBandito6136 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBR_rider View Post
I only ever begrudgingly set foot in coffee establishments on duty if my partner is one of those people addicted to caffeine, for the the sake of your question I will go along with this. Assuming this is like most Starbucks, he will not be handed his order right away. After having already discussed with my partner (and him/her agreeing that it looks like a gun), I would have my partner watch him while I go to to the barrista.

I would ask for something (water, whatever) and then ask her something like "Hey, who is that guy that just ordered ahead of me? He looks familiar. Does he come here often?" If she replies in the affirmative and says something like "Oh yeah, thats Bob and he always drops by after closing up his store" I would just watch him and be done with it. If she instead replied something like "I've only seen him once before and he just sat in the corner and didn't order anything. Tonight he seemed really nervous and when I asked what he wanted he stumbled over his words" I would seriously consider contacting him when he left the store.

A far as looking/not looking like an LEO, upstanding citizen, or whatever, that would only play a small role in whether or not I contact him. Many robbers and other "bad guys" don't look all that different from "good guys."

Unlike what at least one individual has posted on this thread already, we only need reasonable suspicion for the stop. That being said, based simply on the facts you stated above (absolutely no other info/action taken before a stop on your or the possible CCW'ers part) I wouldn't detain him. Like Eric B said, watch and wait.
+1 You nailed it. Give the scenario the attention it deserves and trust your spidy sense. Sometimes that instinct will tell you to let it be and walk away, and you'd be well served in listening to it. But if you absolutely must look into it... if your conscience tells you that it needs to be addressed, communicate with your partner, be on the same page with him or her, and take the steps needed to gain a better understanding of the situation before making a potentially huge blunder. Above all else, be polite as you can possibly be until the time for that has come and gone. Lots of wisdom in the above response.

- Gringo

Last edited by GringoBandito6136; 02-04-2013 at 3:35 PM.. Reason: spelling
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  #22  
Old 02-04-2013, 5:00 PM
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Unless he's fully gangster'd out flying colors, absolutely nothing.
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  #23  
Old 02-04-2013, 5:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winnre View Post
Not an LEO any more.

That's what you get for buying a big fat Glock!

LOL
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Old 02-05-2013, 7:16 AM
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I'd sneak out to the car, get the shotgun and rifle, hand over one to the partner upon my return, start yelling at the gun to get the FLOCK down on the FLOWER ground and don't FREEING move. After evacuating the whole store by screaming for all the civilians to run for their lives, I would then radio for SWAT and Bomb Squad to come as well, and maybe an airship or two, along with the evidence recovery dive team, also don't forget the motors and mounted units for traffic and crowd control because you know, there will be a big crowd gathering, not just for this but also for Starbuck's delicious and nutritious coffee.

Then when I find out it was just a big smart phone, I would yell at the guy for not just open carrying the phone or not buying a looser sweater and then I would peel out of the there with my lights and sirens on as I find a Dunkin' Donuts instead.
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