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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 02-01-2013, 8:59 PM
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Sakiri Sakiri is offline
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Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
On the giving ground thing? Saying that there can be restrictions on PDMs is actually not giving ground.

We've already got those restrictions all over the place. That's the reality right now.

Gura is trying to gain ground.

I'm not always comfortable with everything he says, but there is no way that he is giving ground.

After all, without Heller and McDonald we wouldn't have the ground we're currently standing on. I mean, without Gura's relatively recent court victories is there anyone on the forum who doesn't think that after the Sandy Hook psychotic slaughter that we wouldn't already have had a complete ban on non-governmental PDWs here in California?

We have an unhinged anti-freedom government here in Kalifornia and without Gura's work Brown probably wouldn't have stopped/slowed the legislation. As it stands right now, I'd bet that Brown told the legislature's leaders that if they passed a PDW ban as emergency legislation that he'd shove it down their throat - and he cited Heller and McDonald to make his point.

If you are a praying man or woman, every day you should get down on your knees and thank whatever god/God you worship for Alan Gura and for all that he has done and will do to protect your freedom. Darned close to the same for the likes of Gene, Bill, Brandon, Don, Jason, Sean, Gray, Kestryll, and a whole bunch of others.
I totally want to buy Gray and Gene beers but they'd have to come on up here. Ain't no way in Hate I can get down there.
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  #82  
Old 02-01-2013, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by nicki View Post
If we argue "No Limit" when our opponents are crying about how our semi automatic machine assault weapons of war and mass destruction arms that fire up to 30,000 rpm, we put ourselves in a bad situation.

New York pushed things too far, had our opponents been smart and kept the mags at something like 15 rounds, our position would be much more shakier.

We don't have to argue that we need 15 rounds, all we have to argue is that 7, even 10 rounds is an undue burden on our self defense arms.

One can show that famous picture of Malcolm X guarding his home after it was firebombed with a 30 round M1 carbine.

The magazine capacity issue is a "tricky issue", one that needs to be handled carefully and I think Alan Gura is taking the "wise approach".

We get the restricted capacities ruled unconstitutional and then if they try for restrictions on above normal capacity mags, we have the ban subject to strict scrutiny review.

Nicki
IF they really wanted to do something to 'reduce crime'(*rolleyes*) they'd be handing out super high capacity magazines.

Sods have a really high jam rate comparatively.
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  #83  
Old 02-02-2013, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
In the courts, "rational basis" means "the legislature proposed the law".
I've been trying to make that point here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=692641

but it seems to be falling on deaf ears
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  #84  
Old 02-02-2013, 7:19 AM
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Mulay El Raisuli Mulay El Raisuli is offline
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Originally Posted by Jarrod View Post
Gura


This is EXACTLY what came to my mind as well.


The Raisuli
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  #85  
Old 02-02-2013, 2:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Kharn View Post
The courts will have a very hard time if they want to avoid confronting the elephant in the room of nearly every police officer's pistol and the standard US military pistol since the 1980s having a 15+ round capacity.
Gura has wisely suggested that the SCOTUS "in common use" standard be applied to time and place restrictions on magazine capacity, as well as amounts of ammunition carried in public, while clearly allowing citizens to have whatever magazines and ammunition they choose at home, at the range, and when traveling between.

This sounds very reasonable to most people, and allows the antis to think they are placing themselves into a position to control what magazines and ammunition we carry in public, even if they can't control what we have in private.

I would suspect that the follow up is to apply police and military carry standards for magazines and ammunition to armed citizens, since those are standards that are "in common use" - this means that if the local PD allows officers to carry three regular capacity magazines with a handgun, then citizens would have to be allowed to carry the same amount.
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  #86  
Old 02-02-2013, 5:25 PM
OleCuss OleCuss is offline
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Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
Yes, of course.

In the courts, "rational basis" means "the legislature proposed the law".


That means we'll have to show that a law which limits magazine capacity must pass some greater test than the "rational" basis "test".
You and curtisfong are pretty much right on this one. But I'd have to alter it just a little tiny bit.

So far as the courts are concerned, "rational basis" means that some discredited morons testified to readily falsifiable "facts" and then the legislation got passed.
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  #87  
Old 02-02-2013, 11:21 PM
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All Gura has to do is back up his arguments with facts and debunk the other side. Not all that hard when you know what your doing and have the information when you need it.

Right now the gun grabbers pretty much lost the endorsement of the vice president when Joe stated that any new laws passed won't guarantee another shooting won't happen. Even he is seeing the fallacy in his movement to try and usher forth another AWB.

The gun grabbers lost even more momentum when Sandy Hook agreed that they should put armed guards in schools.

Its not going to be a walk in the park for Gura but from what I have seen and heard over the last week, its going to take a whole lot more from the gun grabbers at this point to keep any ground.
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Ahhhhhhhhhhh! Man that was some great Kool-Aid.......... hmmmmmm theres a hint of something metallic. Oh well guess I will get on with the voting.

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So if you do ban me you will hear from my lawyer as to why you think you can violate peoples civil rights
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Oh for ****s sake, now there are two of them.This is the type of **** anti's point to when they want to make us all look crazy.
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