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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 01-30-2013, 3:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 211275 View Post
Wow, big deal. How about them pushing CA to let us have high cap mags like most every other state gets to, eliminate the bullet button, a couple day wait like just about every other state and end the one handgun every 30 day rule plus stop any new gun laws from passing here? Then I might be impressed enough to join.
Try these for starters...then get back to us.


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...013#post965013
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=74239
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=81543
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...20#post1126420
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=91904
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Originally Posted by Wherryj
I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?
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  #82  
Old 01-30-2013, 3:55 PM
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Poppycock. Even if what you say was true, it sure beats the hell out of the pro-abortionists killing the preborn...
Proving Bill's point pretty succinctly.
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  #83  
Old 01-30-2013, 4:27 PM
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i think the facts are speaking for themselves. People see him as "The Gun Owner" and they are turned off. 4 million NRA members but 80 million gun owners. the vote is in and the NRA is losing badly. How does the NRA get some of those 76 million gun owners? Change everything. Public image, speakers, everything. First to go should be LaPierre but it should not stop there. There needs to be a complete houscleaning and while the message should not change the messenger has to along with the tactics. The NRA is doing the same things and expecting different results. The last time i heard that was definition of insanity when someone keeps doing the same thing expecting different results. And the NRA wonders why gun owners are not joining. Bad image, bad tactics, and bad results even among those the NRA expects to recruit. calguns is more impressive and maybe it needs chapters in every state.
If a person is not a member why should NRA pay a whole lot of attention to what they want? I know in theory paying attention may get a person to join - maybe. But if present members are happy or have some tweaks they'd like done, why listen to a non-member?

More gun owners are now members than ever before, as a percentage of shooters & gun owners. They're doing something right, not wrong.

If a gun owner isn't a member of NRA they should belong to some organization - or fork over $100.00 to Calguns, yes?

To be blunt, I've heard the "NRA stinks" complaints from the days of Franklin Orth. I believe there are some who would join if NRA were different but to be honest, I think most are lazy, just like to complain or be unhappy or rationalize and can't bear the thought of forking over $25.00 for membership - they'd rather buy a brick of ammo. As we've seen in this thread people come up with all sorts of creative reasons as to why they won't join NRA. Reminds me of a joke ....

It's little Izzy's birthday and he tears into his many presents. From Mom he opens gifts of a white shirt and a blue shirt. After all the presents are opened and before birtday cake is served little Izzy runs upstairs, dons the blue shirt & returns down stairs to show his wares. His Mom looks over, sighs a bit and says "Izzy, if you didn't like the white shirt why didn't you just tell me ....."

Last edited by dfletcher; 01-30-2013 at 5:49 PM..
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  #84  
Old 01-30-2013, 4:49 PM
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I thought WLP stood is ground well. He did'nt get off to a great start but did well pointing out how rediculous the cosmetic feature ban is. The point about DiFi's ban that would ban some firearms and not others that use the same ammo was hard for the libs to reconcile.

Some of the other panelist's were also effective at showing how ineffective the existing laws are and that enforcement is a major problem.

The top cop at the table tried to imply that law enforcement had no problems managing crime during disasters, riots, etc. They do thier very best but are in no way capable of controlling things on larger scales.

These anti 2A politicians are going after firearms because it's the easiest feel good measure to push. It's alot harder to address the dismantled mental heath system or go after thier supporters in Hollywood.

People on the fence can be brought in by education. The Socialist aristocrats are never going to admit their mentality is flawed.

We need to get more firearms owners, and all the manufactures, vendors, and organizations activated with an Obama style activist program and get on the offense.
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  #85  
Old 01-30-2013, 4:59 PM
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People having slights to WLP and not being members, you're part of the problem.
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  #86  
Old 01-30-2013, 5:11 PM
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Ok, and that just goes to show, the VAST majority of the nation has NO waiting periods at all, AS IT SHOULD BE and the few states that do, I think I counted 5 or 6, are the Liberal F*cked up states like CA and are part of the problem.

So Mr. 2115 bunch of numbers is completely wrong in stating that most states have some sort of waiting period. And for the record, to be completely clear, I don't count the states that require a permit, and the time it takes to obtain said permit, for handguns, as that does not prevent one from purchasing long guns same day, no wait.
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  #87  
Old 01-30-2013, 7:14 PM
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I think Mr. LaPierre gives great speeches but when he goes on “lame duck” shows like Piers Morgan he is not doing himself justice… because shows like that are just the prevalence of quick glib comments with no intellectual substance. Mr. LaPierre is too well spoken for “Jerry Springer” style shows, which takes away from the content of what Mr. LaPierre is articulating. This is a great speech given by Wayne LaPierre… I don’t think anyone would consider this speech poorly expressed by Mr. LaPierre


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  #88  
Old 01-30-2013, 7:40 PM
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I vote for Nutnfancy as the VP of NRA .
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  #89  
Old 01-30-2013, 7:53 PM
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You get NO EXCUSES for not being an NRA member. Blame whatever you want, just be a member while you do it. It's like people say, if you don't vote, don't *****. If you aren't an NRA member, don't be sad when new gun laws pass.
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  #90  
Old 01-30-2013, 7:54 PM
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I vote for Nutnfancy as the VP of NRA .
Because we need someone bloviating for an hour and a half where thirty seconds would do?
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  #91  
Old 01-30-2013, 8:00 PM
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The NRA does need a more likable front person for sure.
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  #92  
Old 01-30-2013, 8:20 PM
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He is not the best but I wouldnt throw him on the awful list
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  #93  
Old 01-30-2013, 8:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 211275 View Post
What has the NRA done for us here in CA? Not a damn thing as far as I can tell. We have to go thru registrations, 10 day waits, use bullet buttons, limited to 10 rounds, can only buy one handgun every month, cant open carry, getting a CCW is impossible...and we are about to get slapped with even MORE gun laws. Where is the NRA fighting for our rights in CA? Please tell me.
What is the first word in the organizations name? It's a key to the hierarchy of their priorities.
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  #94  
Old 01-30-2013, 9:14 PM
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Why isn't Bruce Willis the public face of the NRA? He's pro 2A isn't he?
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  #95  
Old 01-30-2013, 9:16 PM
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What is the first word in the organizations name? It's a key to the hierarchy of their priorities.
The problem here is the electorate. Just look who gets elected to the Legislature & State Office here. What do you think the chances are for a candidate, strongly endorsed & backed by the NRA, in the coastal population centers in this State ?? Might do well in Shasta County or Gold Country and parts of Central Valley. Then there is the media, I don't know about other areas of the State, but in the SF Bay Area, one anti gun news story after another
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  #96  
Old 01-30-2013, 9:26 PM
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I love NRA people who say "my way or the highway" and 76 million gun owners have taken their advice and gone on a road trip while keeping their money in their pockets. Now NRA members are whining because people took them up on their challenge and hit the road. I do not care for the way the NRA is run but my joining is not going to change that. I don't care how the NRA wants to spend it's money and don't try to tell them how to since I am not a member. I can buy memberships every week of the year but I have spent my money on other organizations I find more productive in the gun arena. This rabid rhetoric is not going to induce anyone to join and the membership is up only because of discounted memberships and not much else. But everyone is entitled to their opinion and at the moment the odds are very much against the NRA unless they defeat every gun bill in Congress and state making some headway in states like California. and i agree that NRA should not have to pay attention to Non-NRA dislikes about the NRA but don't expect any extra money either or support either. The numbers say it all and that is the bottom line despite the discount memberships.
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  #97  
Old 01-30-2013, 9:51 PM
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OK, I watched all the testimony today.... and this is my opinion, so its not worth a whole lot. The forum today is "The Big Time" (TM). National stage, in front of the decision makers, and with a *lot* of value on the line. WLP did poorly given the venue. There were multiple times he hummed and hawed and was at a loss for precise language. In contrast, Mark Kelly came of very well, focusing on the issue of background checks, and mostly avoiding any discussion of assault weapons bans, and reasonably arguing for high cap mags by saying bullet #13 killed that little girl in Tucson. It's a compelling emotional tactic that was very effective.

Here it is: we are losing the arguments against background checks. WLP's point was trying to be that the current system has flaws, and thus making it mandatory 100% of the time won't add much value. The problem is that this nuance was completely lost and all that came across is "NRA is against background checks". I think we need to completely concede this issue, 100% background checks using the existing system or any improvements to it. We already have this in California, so frankly, it makes no difference to me. The end result that it will or won't help reduce mass shootings is completely irrelevant to most people engaged in this debate. We (law abiding gun owners and enthusiasts) need to give ground on this, in order to shore up the more meaningful issues of unconstitutional "assault weapon" or "high capacity magazine" bans.
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  #98  
Old 01-30-2013, 9:54 PM
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Originally Posted by warbird View Post
I love NRA people who say "my way or the highway" and 76 million gun owners have taken their advice and gone on a road trip while keeping their money in their pockets. Now NRA members are whining because people took them up on their challenge and hit the road. I do not care for the way the NRA is run but my joining is not going to change that. I don't care how the NRA wants to spend it's money and don't try to tell them how to since I am not a member. I can buy memberships every week of the year but I have spent my money on other organizations I find more productive in the gun arena. This rabid rhetoric is not going to induce anyone to join and the membership is up only because of discounted memberships and not much else. But everyone is entitled to their opinion and at the moment the odds are very much against the NRA unless they defeat every gun bill in Congress and state making some headway in states like California. and i agree that NRA should not have to pay attention to Non-NRA dislikes about the NRA but don't expect any extra money either or support either. The numbers say it all and that is the bottom line despite the discount memberships.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

What a lame excuse for not joining the NRA!

I suspect most gun owners have never even considered joining the NRA. If it does come to mind they figure they'll just freeload on the backs existing members...
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  #99  
Old 01-30-2013, 10:00 PM
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OK, I watched all the testimony today.... and this is my opinion, so its not worth a whole lot. The forum today is "The Big Time" (TM). National stage, in front of the decision makers, and with a *lot* of value on the line. WLP did poorly given the venue. There were multiple times he hummed and hawed and was at a loss for precise language. In contrast, Mark Kelly came of very well, focusing on the issue of background checks, and mostly avoiding any discussion of assault weapons bans, and reasonably arguing for high cap mags by saying bullet #13 killed that little girl in Tucson. It's a compelling emotional tactic that was very effective.

Here it is: we are losing the arguments against background checks. WLP's point was trying to be that the current system has flaws, and thus making it mandatory 100% of the time won't add much value. The problem is that this nuance was completely lost and all that came across is "NRA is against background checks". I think we need to completely concede this issue, 100% background checks using the existing system or any improvements to it. We already have this in California, so frankly, it makes no difference to me. The end result that it will or won't help reduce mass shootings is completely irrelevant to most people engaged in this debate. We (law abiding gun owners and enthusiasts) need to give ground on this, in order to shore up the more meaningful issues of unconstitutional "assault weapon" or "high capacity magazine" bans.
First, I think in sum, the hearings overall went in favor of pro-RKBA.

I think you are incredibly naive to suggest we concede on the issue of standard-capacity magazines. Not only because of the Second Amendment, not only because of the slippery slope reality but largely because this one issue along with universal background checks is consuming everyone's time. Feinstein's wet dream isn't getting any traction in the meantime.

The harder we fight on these two matters the more absurd feinstein's bill becomes.
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  #100  
Old 01-30-2013, 10:03 PM
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First, I think in sum, the hearings overall went in favor of pro-RKBA.

I think you are incredibly naive to suggest we concede on the issue of standard-capacity magazines.
I think you are right Excelsior, on the whole, I think the RKBA position was well done, I just don't think WLP was the reason. In my prior post, I did not advocate for high cap mag bans, I advocated that we allow and support 100% background checks for all gun purchases. Sorry I didn't make that clear. I think the high-cap mag issue is 100% mandatory that we hold the line.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:14 PM
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I don't care how the NRA wants to spend it's money and don't try to tell them how to since I am not a member. I can buy memberships every week of the year but I have spent my money on other organizations I find more productive in the gun arena.
Please enlighten us on the more productive organizations....
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:20 PM
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I love NRA people who say "my way or the highway"-because that's how I think too, but I'm better than them so I'll just keep my money
If you can afford to buy memberships every week then tossing $25 a year to a national pro gun organization shouldn't be an issue.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:23 PM
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I vote for Nutnfancy as the VP of NRA .
Oh dear god no... now if an idiot like him was in charge of the NRA it would be non existent today.

Im not even going to get into all that idiots faults and why he's not respected by those who know anything about guns and don't hold the Glock 17 on a pedestal as the comparison of all others.

As for WLP, His speeches are fine, its his debating skills that could be quite a bit better. Watching him get into the battle about Background checks and his "your missing the point" well TELL THEM! Speak up dammit, i was YELLING "BECAUSE IF THEY GET DENIED THEY WILL JUST GO STEAL ONE OR BUY ONE ON THE STREETS!".... he just couldn't get that off and it was killing me watching.

But he speaks well, i just wish they would help him prep for the debate better. Its no surprise the bs they throw at him and its easy to prep for. I can see those corners from miles away yet he doesn't have the facts.

Hell, it took how many "Pro Gun Experts" on that idiot Piers Morgan's show for "The Gun Girls" to finally answer his stupid question of "has the ar-15 ever been used in home defense"... I can site 6 other examples, why can't any of these "Experts" and it takes "The gun Girls" (as gorgeous as they are) to finally answer his predictable BS questions? I wish i could get on that idiots show, i would crush him with facts if he tries to play that game...

ok, off track. WLP is fine at what he's doing, he's not great or amazing but he's not hurting us but i do feel he could be helping a little more if he were better prepared.

JOe
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  #104  
Old 01-30-2013, 10:29 PM
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I advocated that we allow and support 100% background checks for all gun purchases. Sorry I didn't make that clear.
Because they've worked spectacularly so far?


Have you studied history? Plenty of countries have used gun registration. - to make it easier to confiscate guns-

100% BC will lead to registration. CA is already leading the way.

Doing nothing would be as effective as 100% BC but cost the legal gun owner zero. Because you know they will make the purchaser pay for it even though it's for public safety and should be paid for by all.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:35 PM
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Maybe it's a generational thing, I'm in my fifties and I think he's very good. I just rejoined the NRA after a ten year hiatus after watching him on TV and reading his stuff on the website. I'm also reading his book again

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  #106  
Old 01-30-2013, 10:55 PM
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Transplant Alan Gura's brain into Tom Selleck and put them up there. J/K
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:29 PM
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I mention this only for it's ability to make people think.

Before Sandy Hook there were 8 million licenses to carry but only 4 million NRA members (of which I am one.)

That's not good. Why is that and I ask that question seriously?

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  #108  
Old 01-31-2013, 12:39 AM
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I mention this only for it's ability to make people think.

Before Sandy Hook there were 8 million licenses to carry but only 4 million NRA members (of which I am one.)

That's not good. Why is that and I ask that question seriously?

-Gene
I think it has to do with the history/evolution of the NRA and how it has been marketed.

Over the past 30 or so years, the NRA's focus has shifted from that of a serious hunter's/gun enthusiast's (shooters, collectors, dealers, etc.) organization to a gun owner rights organization. Unfortunately that change in focus has never really been met with a change in its marketing.

The hunters/gun enthusiasts market is very narrow in comparison to all gun owners (or would be owners) who wish to maintain their right to keep and bear arms. The NRA does a fairly good job of serving (and hammering away) at the existing faithful but I suspect it has never really planned how to grow a far larger membership.

Part of this is due to limited resources. Part is due to talent (or lack thereof) within NRA leadership. Part is due to complacency -- I'm sure some at the NRA HQ like things just the way they are. A growing part is also due to the rather sketchy reputation (earned or not) that millions of Americans now identify with the NRA.

If I considered the NRA to be a gun owner's rights organization and then paged through the American Rifleman, I would be left with the distinct feeling that the NRA has outgrown its leadership -- again.
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  #109  
Old 01-31-2013, 12:49 AM
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I think you are right Excelsior, on the whole, I think the RKBA position was well done, I just don't think WLP was the reason. In my prior post, I did not advocate for high cap mag bans, I advocated that we allow and support 100% background checks for all gun purchases. Sorry I didn't make that clear. I think the high-cap mag issue is 100% mandatory that we hold the line.
I very much agree with you. David Keene should have represented the NRA. WLP really isn't getting the job done as the NRA's front man right now. I think the RKBA heavy lifting was done by others tonight.

Ted Cruz and Lindsay Graham did especially nice jobs. Imagine Cruz as the CEO of the NRA...
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Old 01-31-2013, 1:39 AM
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Well, turn about's fair play. You answered mine in the other thread, so I'll try to answer yours. Not that I know anything more than the next guy.

I think there are a lot of gun owners out there, who feel disenfranchised for whatever reason. They enjoy the fruits of the organization obviously without feeling that their "single" membership makes a difference. They can get their head around the physical reality of being protected, with the sidearm doing the talking, but less so for an organization doing the talking.

They don't realize the impact it makes when contributing to the enormous potential effect of the "collective". Or for some others, they plan to join "when they get around to it" and put it on the back burner. A large number of procrastinators. Then there are those who are influenced negatively by the MSM. /$0.02

Quote:
Before Sandy Hook there were 8 million licenses to carry but only 4 million NRA members (of which I am one.)

That's not good. Why is that and I ask that question seriously?
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Old 01-31-2013, 3:40 AM
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Hes awful and the main reason I wont join the NRA. Keene is 10 times better and should be the one out front for the NRA


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Old 01-31-2013, 3:43 AM
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The NRA is about a lot more than LaPierre's speaking ability.

To not join because he is not the best speaker seems a bit silly to me.
Wow--- Logic

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Old 01-31-2013, 6:54 AM
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He might be all right giving a prepared speech, but he's a little weak testifying or debating.

I know this is being petty and it shouldn't matter, but I wish he would do something about his hair
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Old 01-31-2013, 8:06 AM
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La Pierre has this sort of hectoring, "eat your peas" tone. He is combative and lecturing. I don't care what you're selling or what your message is, that is not a tone that people like.

NRA has had their president Keene out a little bit lately and he seems to have a much more likeable and easy presence and a good speaking voice. Sure he's someones grampa, but a nice one.
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Old 01-31-2013, 8:11 AM
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He always seems like he's really thirsty.
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  #116  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottB View Post
La Pierre has this sort of hectoring, "eat your peas" tone. He is combative and lecturing. I don't care what you're selling or what your message is, that is not a tone that people like.

NRA has had their president Keene out a little bit lately and he seems to have a much more likeable and easy presence and a good speaking voice. Sure he's someones grampa, but a nice one.
Keene is 3 years older than WLP...
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:51 PM
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Most of you folks are forgetting the issue.

Wayne's not there to impress Joe Blow. Other outreach stuff is for that.

Wayne is there to exert pressure and not necessarily by his public words.

It doesn't matter what he says if House (and even perhaps Seneate) won't fold on gun votes.

It's always important to remember which game is playing.

The real message is "I showed up and didn't delegate this to usual lobbying channels. We're serious, mofos. Remember '94."
Then he needs to stay the hell off of Piers Morgan's show, etc and stick to the halls (and alleys) of DC.

If we have pro-gun people (in this very thread!) who won't join NRA because LaPierre comes off like a mumbly, creepy uncle, how do you think that helps the 2nd Amendment campaign as a whole, with new members, young people, women, and undecideds?

You don't send your junkyard dog to the Westminster Dog Show. You send your proper, groomed, showdog, and you take that goddamn 1st place.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
I mention this only for it's ability to make people think.

Before Sandy Hook there were 8 million licenses to carry but only 4 million NRA members (of which I am one.)

That's not good. Why is that and I ask that question seriously?

-Gene
Excellent question.

I never joined because, being a fan of, and only of, "evil black rifles" and "tupperware pistols," I didn't feel like the NRA was a good spokesman for me, or cared what I thought.

"You don't like walnut stocks and blued steel actions, you get the hell out!" That kind of thing.

Now, SAF on the other hand...
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Old 01-31-2013, 1:03 PM
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Originally Posted by LuvLRBs View Post
I think the NRA needs multiple representatives speaking for it, including an articulate woman. The country has changed demographically and I hear a lot of " old white guys" bashing. Like the republican party, the NRA can't be seen as being out if touch with the "new" America. People need to feel welcome and get drawn into the positive aspects of firearm ownership. (disclaimer: female poster here)
THIS
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  #120  
Old 01-31-2013, 1:24 PM
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This "I won't join because of _____ reason" only further divides us. Sad how people like you just refuse to see the big picture. Don't worry, we will save freeloaders rights too.
No, it is that LaPierre divides us. Why is it incorrect to suggest we would like a better leader and better spokesman to represent us? It's not. There are a lot of LEOs that have grown weary of the NRA specifically because of LaPierre and I don't blame them. I'm sure anti-2A would froth at the opportunity to ridicule a change at the top, but if that new person comes out swinging with intelligent and rational arguments, then I would be all for it. However, we all know that at the end of the day intelligent and rational arguments mean absolutely nothing in this climate of hysteria.

I contribute to Calguns and I fully support the current Firearms Policy Coalition (just got an email actually of a new member, The West Virginia Citizens Defense League ), it is absolutely the way to go! Independent and organized with a national Pro 2A agenda. Hmmm, so who will our spokesperson be?
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