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  #1  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:11 AM
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Default Are dogs effective home invasion deterrents?

Curious if any of you guys have heard cases of home invasions occurring even when there was a large dog present. There seems to be an uptick in HIs in my area, so I'm thinking of getting a shepherd or dobie for a little peace of mind. Lap dogs need not apply.

Would it be worth the time and expense? What about advanced training (guard dog)? I would enjoy hearing from any K9 handlers (MIL/LE).

Thanks.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:33 AM
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I think they are. I'm glad you are thinking of training with the dog acquisition. Just make sure you are trained as well as your dog.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:49 AM
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I can't give a LEO perspective, but from a common sense one...hell yes.

Dogs are effective for two major reasons. First, and most importantly, is the alarm factor. Intruders don't like calling attention to themselves. They want to get in and get out with as much profit as possible while being threatened as little as possible. A barking dog makes it virtually impossible for them to silently do their deed.

Secondly, and less importantly than the above, is the intimidation factor. No sane crook would choose your house if it was protected by a large German shepherd if your neighbor was protected by a fish. In essence, you want to make it *easier* for the crook to target your neighbors down the road than to target you.

Training is really important but from the standpoint of a burglar, theres *no* difference between a well trained dog and a not-trained dog. All the burglar sees is a beast that will reveal his/her presence.

Training is super important, in my not so humble opinion, when it comes how to how your dog interacts with the world. That is...will your dog protect your kid while out on a walk? Will it obey your commands while being threatened by another dog? Will it release when you tell him/her to?
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Old 01-27-2013, 1:42 AM
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nope, that is why ppl get them for that specific reason. i tease, lol

depends on the breed and training really. i would say they serve more as an alarm. my friend has two pitbulls that are nice only to the people that are introduced to the family. if someone else comes into the house, you can expect them to die painfully. the neighbor next door threw his ball over the yard on accident and went to retrieve it without asking the my friend. when he jumped over he was chased back to his yard faster than lightning.
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Old 01-27-2013, 2:15 AM
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The barking of a dog give advanced notice. It allows one to have their fire arm in hand about five seconds early.


That is why dogs are called "man's best friend".
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Old 01-27-2013, 5:02 AM
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Out of the box most dogs are great for advanced warning.
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Old 01-27-2013, 5:17 AM
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Default Early warning system

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The barking of a dog give advanced notice. It allows one to have their fire arm in hand about five seconds early.


That is why dogs are called "man's best friend".
My dog barks at ghosts sometimes, but, usually it is for activity in the front. Quick glance of the security monitor lets me know if it is neighbors or danger.
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Old 01-27-2013, 5:20 AM
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I have a pembroke welsh corgi, and although he isn't very intimidating, he has a loud, shrieking, incessant bark. Whenever someone comes to my door, he goes bat**** crazy. It gets annoying at times, but I sleep well at night. He likes to sleep right by the front door too lol.
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Old 01-27-2013, 5:28 AM
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i had a big dog, very protective and a real deterrent to crime.
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Old 01-27-2013, 5:42 AM
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Excuse this non-LEO for interjecting, but I remember hearing a many time convicted life-long burglar speaking about home security (he was trying to turn over a new leaf and had become a security advisor).

He said "Why would I break into a house where I know I will have to deal with a dog when I can break into the house next door that does not have a dog?"
He suggested that size of the dog isn't an issue, it's the noise they make and the attention they bring.
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Old 01-27-2013, 5:50 AM
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I sleep way more soundly (and know my guns are protected when I'm not home) because of my two dogs. Could an intruder just shoot a dog? Sure. But then they have made even more noise and alerted every neighbor within earshot. Dogs make your home a far more difficult target.
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Old 01-27-2013, 5:57 AM
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I have a "vicious" pit bull I rescued while at work. He gives me piece of mind not only for the advanced warning, but that he will make my house a harder target and protect my wife and two girls while I'm away. Like all these very "dangerous" and "scary" assault rifles out there people are scared of a Pit.
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Old 01-27-2013, 9:01 AM
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Thanks for the comments. The early warning factor is great for burglars. My concern is more with those two to four idiot teams that simply smash in while people are home. They are less concerned about stealth, are frequently armed and far more dangerous.

It seems like these attacks are becoming more common. Just wondering how to counter one. I thought about punji sticks and claymores but apparently those are illegal.
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Old 01-27-2013, 9:46 AM
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Yes
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:35 AM
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We have two dogs, a Pembroke Welsh Corgi and a Doberman Pinscher.

The little dog is a very light sleeper and very alert - will bark at anything out of the ordinary.

The big dog is a heavy sleeper - it can take an explosion to wake him if he's in a deep sleep. fortunately, that's exactly what the little dog provides! Once he is up and at'em, nobody thinks twice about trying to confront him. Would you?

Basic obedience training and house manners are all that is necessary for a dog to be a deterrent. If you're going to participate in a sport like Schutzhund be advised that those who participate in the sport - at least those I've met - do treat it as a SPORT and not as a practical life skill. I don't know about "advanced" guard dog training, but my hunch is that if you are not going to keep it up on a regular basis the dog will forget it over time and you'll have wasted your investment.

Dogs do serve as both an alarm and a deterrent. And they are very satisfying companions. The best reason to have a dog is because you love them and consider them family. You take care of them, and they will take care of you. That's how the family/pack works and why they have been our closest companion species for 14,000 years.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:40 AM
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yes
Fawndog, is that your dog or is that an internet picture?
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:53 AM
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Anything is a deterrent if it makes your house less desirable. A thief would rather rob a house without a dog. Thief's prefer easier targets not harder ones.

If they are on drugs, drunk it probably won't matter to them.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:57 AM
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Home invasion robbery, or just straight burglary. I've said it before on this forum, I think I've only been to 1 burglary report where there was a dog on the premises. Of course it was a very small breed dog at that. I still stand by my opinion that alarm systems coupled with dogs are your best deterrents for burglaries. Home invasions on the other hand. All you can really do is be aware of your surroundings and who you answer the door to. If you have the means to protect yourself and others, train to do so.
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Old 01-27-2013, 1:22 PM
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For your average burglar absolutely, home invasion however is a different breed. They are generally targeted for one reason or another, or at least that has been my experience. A trained dog may be a help beyond an early warning, but a deterrent for someone who is intent on either harming you or taking something you have. Maybe not so much.
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Old 01-27-2013, 2:46 PM
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If you have a larger, silent breed of dog that isn't actually aggressive, don't bother. I took a burglary report (I know, I know not a home invasion.. but never the less) at a house that had a literally 150lb mountain dog. The dog was very friendly and silent; didn't do a thing to deter the thieves. As many have already mentioned, sometimes a little, obnoxious "alarm dog" can be the best thing because they give you advanced warning of someones approach (if I'm not mistaken, that is the original work several of them were bred for).

I myself have been a victim of an attempted hot prowl burglary (he didn't make it inside), my only dog at the time was an 11lb terrier. She and I woke up at the same time and while I rolled out of bed and grabbed my gun she charged the door yapping the whole way. As I approached the front of my house I could tell by her bark that this was no "false alarm" and I dealt with the offender appropriately when I got there. A larger, more aggressive dog in that case would have just gotten in my way. The 11lb dog did all I need her to do: make sure I was awake and let me know who was at the door.
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Old 01-27-2013, 4:08 PM
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Fawndog, is that your dog or is that an internet picture?
Yes she's mine, she looks mean because I posed her for that picture on cold aS5 concrete.
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Old 01-27-2013, 4:29 PM
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Fawndog - That photo is epic! Choked on my drink laughing.
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Old 01-27-2013, 4:37 PM
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Me and some friends, who are privy to such information started keeping track of the burglaries in our rural area and most of the victims had one thing in common, no dogs.
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Old 01-27-2013, 4:41 PM
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Yes
Frickin awesome...
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Old 01-27-2013, 4:54 PM
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Fawndog - That photo is epic! Choked on my drink laughing.
Thanks, I thought of that when S.F. was trying to ban handguns.

On a serious note, I've always recommended dogs first, guns second for home security. (I'm not a professional but I live in a Colorful neighborhood.)
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Old 01-27-2013, 5:00 PM
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Yes
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Old 01-27-2013, 5:35 PM
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Curious if any of you guys have heard cases of home invasions occurring even when there was a large dog present. There seems to be an uptick in HIs in my area, so I'm thinking of getting a shepherd or dobie for a little peace of mind. Lap dogs need not apply.

Would it be worth the time and expense? What about advanced training (guard dog)? I would enjoy hearing from any K9 handlers (MIL/LE).

Thanks.
German Shepherd dogs can make for great K9's and watch dogs. These dogs aren't meant to lay around and be lazy all day. They require alot of mental stimulation and physical training. Yes, they are intelligent dogs that they need somebody who can intelligently train them. The military and police dogs are trained in perimeter guarding, and alerting the handler. Also in the apprehension of the suspect, the training of these dogs requires a handler to be around to correct behaviors.

Any dog that is trained like that and thrown into a big yard can be a big liability. I would suggest getting a dog with the mentality of being a pet, with some basic guard dog training. In other words he'll still be friendly and manageable as a pet, instead of being trained as a military or police working dog. Which are usually left in kennels or in constant supervision or their handlers. They tend to be one person dogs.

These dogs are so smart they frequently get themselves into trouble. My Shepherd amazes me in bad behaviors, so reinforcement of corrections is crucial. He does work as a deterrence my brothers friend came in out of town, nobody was home at my place. So he figured he walk around backyard to come into my house and wait for my brother. He told me was scared ****less when he found out I got a new dog It was a total " Oh **** moment".

I'd recommend you contact a guy on these forums named Norcalk9 he trains police dogs.
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Old 01-27-2013, 7:19 PM
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I have a 100 pound shepherd/pit/mutt mix that barks ferociously at anyone that comes near the house. If someone did get in the house my dog would probably break down the back door trying to get away because he is a big chicken****.
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Old 01-27-2013, 7:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Tacit Blue View Post
German Shepherd dogs can make for great K9's and watch dogs. These dogs aren't meant to lay around and be lazy all day. They require alot of mental stimulation and physical training. Yes, they are intelligent dogs that they need somebody who can intelligently train them. The military and police dogs are trained in perimeter guarding, and alerting the handler. Also in the apprehension of the suspect, the training of these dogs requires a handler to be around to correct behaviors.

Any dog that is trained like that and thrown into a big yard can be a big liability. I would suggest getting a dog with the mentality of being a pet, with some basic guard dog training. In other words he'll still be friendly and manageable as a pet, instead of being trained as a military or police working dog. Which are usually left in kennels or in constant supervision or their handlers. They tend to be one person dogs.

These dogs are so smart they they frequently get themselves into trouble. My Shepherd does that amazes me in bad behaviors, so reinforcement of corrections is crucial. He does work as a deterrence my brothers friend came in out of town, nobody was home at my place. So he figured he walk around backyard to come into my house and wait for my brother. He told me was scared ****less when he found out I got a new dog It was a total " Oh **** moment".

I'd recommend you contact a guy on these forums named Norcalk9 he trains police dogs.
Great input, Tacit Blue. Thanks for the referral to Norcalk9. I'll contact him. I do plan to continue to work with the dog once its trained. It will need to be a two handler dog though, if that is possible. My wife has to be able to control it when I'm not around.
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Old 01-27-2013, 8:16 PM
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Dogs absolutely make an effective deterrent. They should be part of an overall security plan:

Dog
Monitored Alarm
Nosy neighbors
Surveillance
Firearms accessible and requisite skill to use them
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Old 01-27-2013, 9:11 PM
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Great input, Tacit Blue. Thanks for the referral to Norcalk9. I'll contact him. I do plan to continue to work with the dog once its trained. It will need to be a two handler dog though, if that is possible. My wife has to be able to control it when I'm not around.
He has a thread here. You can have him trained to accept your wife or kids as part of the ' family pact'. Just like wolves have pacts in the wild, your family is part of your dog's pact. Anybody outside that pact he'll/she'll be weary of usually. Good Luck.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=575952


Here's my dog here:
http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/x...on/Buddy-1.jpg
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:27 PM
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My dog barks at ghosts sometimes, but, usually it is for activity in the front. Quick glance of the security monitor lets me know if it is neighbors or danger.
I listen to my dogs and praise them for raising the alarm even if I see nothing. They have senses of smell & hearing hundreds of times better than ours. Just because WE don't see anything doesn't mean there's nothing there.

OP don't underestimate a yappy lapdog. They can be great early warning systems. They do tend to be insecure and snippy though. One study awhile back indicated that the dog most likely to actually bite a human was a Daschound.
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:35 PM
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OP don't underestimate a yappy lapdog. They can be great early warning systems. They do tend to be insecure and snippy though. One study awhile back indicated that the dog most likely to actually bite a human was a Daschound.
LOL. Nope, I once knew a guy that had a set of vicious Basset hounds - no joke. Who knew? I guess whatever it takes to get the job done.

Tacit Blue: Great looking dog! Thanks for sharing. I was on Norcalk9's web site earlier. Giving him very serious consideration.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:04 PM
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so I'm thinking of getting a shepherd or dobie for a little peace of mind. Lap dogs need not apply.

.
yes - dogs are the No. 1 deterrent to home crimes according to studies.

and apparently you dont know DObies very well , they are 80 pound lap dogs.
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Old 01-28-2013, 1:23 AM
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I agree that most dogs make great deterrents and increase the chance of dissuading potential would be criminals. My next door neighbor has two Rottweilers that will bark at anything that gets within a moderate of his property. They can be utterly annoying going to and from my house, but they're doing their job.

I have a working-line AmStaff (trained in Schutzhund for a year) for this very reason, among others. I've been rudely awakened out of a deep sleep on many occasions, which prompts a rapid response.
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Old 01-28-2013, 2:30 AM
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my dog would probably try to lick the intruder to death, since she's so friendly.

But she's also loud, and alert.
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Old 01-28-2013, 6:04 AM
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I have a GSD and while she is not a working dog, she comes from a long line of working dogs. She is very alert, sometimes too alert, but I don't stifle her barking response because that is what I will have to depend on when the time comes. She sounds very mean when she means business too... when I hear her growl, not bark, I know there's something back there... usually this stupid possum that likes my fruit trees, but still, I know she is very protective of her yard.
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Old 01-28-2013, 6:26 AM
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Dogs make for great deterrents. I once had a pizza delivery guy call my cell phone because he heard my dog barking from inside my house and didn't want to risk approaching.

I've got several layers of coverage. My black/white German Shorthaired Pointer will no kidding out run anything and on my 5 acres that means no one is getting happily away with anything. Plus with his black coat he loves to run up to people at the fence line and bark at them as they walk by on the street at night. A great reminder that he's there and came out of no where. Then my Girlfriend has her big lab/chow mix that sticks to her has no issues about being a large mouth if needed to protect her. Then we also have all of the various lap dogs that are surprisingly useful alarm dogs and mouse chasers.
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Old 01-28-2013, 6:47 AM
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Originally Posted by WinstonMonty View Post
I have a pembroke welsh corgi, and although he isn't very intimidating, he has a loud, shrieking, incessant bark. Whenever someone comes to my door, he goes bat**** crazy. It gets annoying at times, but I sleep well at night. He likes to sleep right by the front door too lol.
Good post, don't for get or underestimate those smaller dogs, They may not be intimidating but are great watchdogs something the larger dogs or even guard dogs can lack. Pit Bulls may be intimidating but can lack the guard dog characterisitcs (I have 2) since by nature they are people friendly. I raised 3 dobies growing up, by far one of the best companion/guard dogs ever.

Training is important but I dont expect them to do much other then let me know and buy me some time...ill take care of the rest.
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Old 01-28-2013, 7:56 AM
mixicus mixicus is offline
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Simply, dogs are a great additional layer of security against crime. Put Fido in the mix of locking your doors, windows, cars and exterior lighting and unconcealed points of entry and maybe an alarm; makes the bad guys really consider the risk/reward equation for a residence.

OP-victims of home invasions robberies are usually specifically targeted for a reason. Commonly, 1) drug dealers and related because of #2 and 2) residences known/strongly suspected of having high liquid value items such as cash, gold and jewelry. #2 is common with certain immigrant populations hailing from countries with questionable financial institutions/economies or that place high value on physical wealth. The risk/reward equation is such that a criminal will risk a fight, capture or later identification because they need the family to tell them the location of the valuables or open then safe.

Best way to avoid being targeted for home invasions: don't look like a doper and don't advertise any high value items or stacks of cash. Make sure the family doesn't brag either. Even your children in elementary school may say something around less than honorable ears.
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