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  #1  
Old 01-27-2013, 8:35 AM
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Default Sig 227

I guess I am coming to the party late. I had a spec question about a Sig I just bought off a Cal Gunner here and went to their site. As I'm scrolling through here's a P 227 listed(?). Wondering what the hell that was and how I've never heard of one before. Seems like its a 226 built up to take 10 .45 ACP rounds. Nice. Anybody actually seen one of these? How long have they been around?
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Old 01-27-2013, 8:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Gun View Post
I guess I am coming to the party late. I had a spec question about a Sig I just bought off a Cal Gunner here and went to their site. As I'm scrolling through here's a P 227 listed(?). Wondering what the hell that was and how I've never heard of one before. Seems like its a 226 built up to take 10 .45 ACP rounds. Nice. Anybody actually seen one of these? How long have they been around?
Introduced at SHOT show 2013 this month. Reviews can be found online, but basically the reviewers are saying that it's what a P226 would be if it fired .45s

If it does make it to California's Roster in the distant future, it will come with a LCI and Magazine Disconnect.
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Old 01-27-2013, 8:51 AM
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  #4  
Old 01-27-2013, 9:26 AM
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I saw it at SHOT Show and talked with Sig for a little bit on it.

They originally described it as a P226 in .45, or a double-stack P220. I feel it's much closer to a Double-stack P220. It uses P220 slides and the grip is as deep as a P220. The E2 grips are perfect on it's frame, it's around the same girth as a Glock 21, but it's contoured much better.

They posted it on their website the week prior to SHOT Show and debuted it there. They haven't started shipping out just yet, but should trickle down here very soon.

In the first video posted above me, Bulter says he's holding the Carry model. He isn't. That's the normal full-size.
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Last edited by Plisk; 01-27-2013 at 9:30 AM..
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Old 01-27-2013, 9:30 AM
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I hope this comes to California...I'll be first in line if it does.
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  #6  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:07 PM
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having that lci and mag safety is kinda a bummer though, then again SSE should take care of that
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:25 PM
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But isn't the description vague on the roster? All it does is specify the model number, barrel length, chambering and finish- no SKU or safety features. You could order a non-CA version via gunbroker or some other online dealer and get it DROS'd.
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Old 01-27-2013, 1:04 PM
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I hope that they come out with an Elite version ...
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  #9  
Old 01-27-2013, 6:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Sabian722 View Post
having that lci and mag safety is kinda a bummer though, then again SSE should take care of that
You got it right, brother. Screw the LCI and magazine safety. I just hate a the neutering to make things available in CA. Just bring it in via SSE.

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I hope that they come out with an Elite version ...
Man, now you are talking! Just a matter of time I say!
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Old 01-27-2013, 6:37 PM
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I wonder if "MADE IN GERMANY" P220 uppers will fit the new P227 lowers as well or if it has to be an American made upper.....???
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Old 01-27-2013, 8:31 PM
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I wonder is this version designed for a new military contract?
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  #12  
Old 01-27-2013, 8:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShooterStymie View Post
I hope this comes to California...I'll be first in line if it does.
2nd in line, I want the SAS version.
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:02 PM
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Remember that it took Sig a year before the first P224s came off the line.

I would be quite surprised if they start shipping these before December.
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Old 01-28-2013, 7:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46sc3 View Post
I hope that they come out with an Elite version ...
This, in Enhanced Elite, or Dark Elite.
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  #15  
Old 01-28-2013, 1:36 PM
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I'm rooting for an Elite SAO.
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  #16  
Old 01-28-2013, 5:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apec View Post
But isn't the description vague on the roster? All it does is specify the model number, barrel length, chambering and finish- no SKU or safety features. You could order a non-CA version via gunbroker or some other online dealer and get it DROS'd.
This is going to be called a 227, so it's not like its some 220 or 226 variant. It is a distinct model, new, and won't be grandfathered onto roster. If DOJ wouldn't accept Gen 4 Glocks, there is no chance this will sneak in.
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Old 01-28-2013, 5:23 PM
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My Gen4 21 is nice, but if the 227 feels less like a brick, I'm in.
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  #18  
Old 01-28-2013, 5:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trendar5 View Post
This is going to be called a 227, so it's not like its some 220 or 226 variant. It is a distinct model, new, and won't be grandfathered onto roster. If DOJ wouldn't accept Gen 4 Glocks, there is no chance this will sneak in.
You have to remember, Glock was a special exception to begin with on the Roster. They had difficulties with DOJ when the list was generated.

Sig has been able to get new models on the list. They try hard to keep pistols on the list, I'm sure they are already trying.
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Old 01-28-2013, 5:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plisk View Post
You have to remember, Glock was a special exception to begin with on the Roster. They had difficulties with DOJ when the list was generated.

Sig has been able to get new models on the list. They try hard to keep pistols on the list, I'm sure they are already trying.
Glock doesn't have a special exemption.

They use the same exemption [PC 32030] that other manufacturers use.

This exemption is what SIG uses to get new variants of their existing handguns on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale.



Penal Code 32030
(a) A firearm shall be deemed to satisfy the requirements of subdivision (a) of Section 32015 if another firearm made by the same manufacturer is already listed and the unlisted firearm differs from the listed firearm only in one or more of the following features:
(1) Finish, including, but not limited to, bluing, chrome-plating, oiling, or engraving.
(2) The material from which the grips are made.
(3) The shape or texture of the grips, so long as the difference in grip shape or texture does not in any way alter the dimensions, material, linkage, or functioning of the magazine well, the barrel, the chamber, or any of the components of the firing mechanism of the firearm.
(4) Any other purely cosmetic feature that does not in any way alter the dimensions, material, linkage, or functioning of the magazine well, the barrel, the chamber, or any of the components of the firing mechanism of the firearm.
(b) Any manufacturer seeking to have a firearm listed under this section shall provide to the Department of Justice all of the following:
(1) The model designation of the listed firearm.
(2) The model designation of each firearm that the manufacturer seeks to have listed under this section.
(3) A statement, under oath, that each unlisted firearm for which listing is sought differs from the listed firearm only in one or more of the ways identified in subdivision (a) and is in all other respects identical to the listed firearm.
(c) The department may, in its discretion and at any time, require a manufacturer to provide to the department any model for which listing is sought under this section, to determine whether the model complies with the requirements of this section.
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  #20  
Old 01-28-2013, 9:20 PM
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I can put my od green P220 Combat slide on this P227 frame and use my custom Texshoemaker IWB leather holster that accommodates a TLR-2S light/laser.



Last edited by CAGLS; 01-28-2013 at 9:28 PM..
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  #21  
Old 01-28-2013, 9:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trendar5 View Post
This is going to be called a 227, so it's not like its some 220 or 226 variant. It is a distinct model, new, and won't be grandfathered onto roster. If DOJ wouldn't accept Gen 4 Glocks, there is no chance this will sneak in.
What I'm saying is, if the 227 does get rostered, the roster might not make a distinction between the CA and non CA guns. Unless they specifically put a SKU down or suffix indicating that it's the "Kalifornia-edition." This has nothing to do with grandfathering, but rather the fact that the roster is blind to CA and non CA versions of some guns.

For example, the P229 Enhanced Elite is a newer gun that WASN'T grandfathered, and there exist two versions, a CA and non CA one. However, the roster does not make the distinction. That model name is the same for CA and non CA versions.
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Sure, you might run into problems if you're buying from your LGS's inventory. But if you're buying online for a transfer, what's stopping you? The gun you order has the same model designation, barrel length, and chambering. Now transfers are more expensive now that the Board of Extortion is requiring tax, but unless you have a FFL who does SSE for free, then the net price might be worthwhile.
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  #22  
Old 01-28-2013, 9:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Glock doesn't have a special exemption.

They use the same exemption [PC 32030] that other manufacturers use.
It didn't say has, I said was.

I was told by my Armorer instructor that back when the Roster was created and they were adding weapons that were actively being sold in California they attempted to exclude Glock and they had to fight with CA DOJ for them to be allowed onto the list. He explained that is why they weren't able to get Gen4s onto the list, because their original roster listing was treated like an exemption from DOJ.
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  #23  
Old 01-28-2013, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plisk View Post
It didn't say has, I said was.

I was told by my Armorer instructor that back when the Roster was created and they were adding weapons that were actively being sold in California they attempted to exclude Glock and they had to fight with CA DOJ for them to be allowed onto the list. He explained that is why they weren't able to get Gen4s onto the list, because their original roster listing was treated like an exemption from DOJ.
The MB Glocks and the Gen4 Glocks could not be listed because they have internal differences that make it not comply with PC 32030(a)(3).

The MB Glocks utilize an ambi-mag release system which CA DOJ stated "altered the linkage & functioning of the magazine well".

The Gen4 Glocks utilize a reversible mag release system which CA DOJ stated "altered the linkage & functioning of the magazine well".
The Gen4 Glocks utilize a double-recoil spring system which CA DOJ stated "altered the barrel and components of the firing mechanism".
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  #24  
Old 01-28-2013, 11:10 PM
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If you love the grips of the P226, and have no issues then sure a P227 makes sense if you want +2 in .45acp. As for me, I prefer the slimmer P220. To me, back in the days, Sigs lineup used to be like the menu size of IN&Out, simple limited choices that work, nowadays its like Jack in the Box, just all over the place. I can't stand all these weird versions of every pistol every year. Maybe I'm just old school. But as long as people want them, who's to say...
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
The MB Glocks and the Gen4 Glocks could not be listed because they have internal differences that make it not comply with PC 32030(a)(3).

The MB Glocks utilize an ambi-mag release system which CA DOJ stated "altered the linkage & functioning of the magazine well".

The Gen4 Glocks utilize a reversible mag release system which CA DOJ stated "altered the linkage & functioning of the magazine well".
The Gen4 Glocks utilize a double-recoil spring system which CA DOJ stated "altered the barrel and components of the firing mechanism".


The DOJ sure knows how to nitpick on minor differences. At the end of the day a Glock with a Gen 4 or 3 setup is still a striker-fired short-recoil operated pistol. No changes in external or internal safety mechanisms.

Linkage and functioning of the magazine well. Pfft, the mag catch/release only interacts with one thing, and that's the cutout on the magazine. Doesn't have any bearing on the firing control group.

Double recoil spring? Does the same thing a single recoil spring does...compresses and puts the gun back into battery after firing.
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