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  #41  
Old 01-25-2013, 4:08 PM
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Originally Posted by HOGDOG1955 View Post
wow guys, i have 2 neighbors who are chp. they both told me if they pull you over with a locked box with a pistol and loaded mags in that locked case. they will arrest you. also they would cite you or possibly arrest you if you have a un loaded handgun in a locked case and the ammo is in the same compartment/ cab of pickup or inside a car. and they both told me this includes ammo locked in one box and pistol locked in totally sperate box/case.
How could you possibly ever go to the range? Two trips... One with the gun and another trip with the ammo...ROFL
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  #42  
Old 01-25-2013, 4:18 PM
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OP, you did the right thing, you showed them what is says on the CHP website. If they continue to argue at that point, nothing you can say will convince them otherwise


You seriously cant fight ignorance / pride / vanity. Very few people can admit they are wrong, even when confronted with rock solid proof of their wrongness. it just gets them more riled up, like your trying to pull a prank on them, or are calling them stupid (even if they are acting that way).

It always amazes me that just because someone works at a range, or is a LEO, people take what they say as gospel.

I hired a skeet coach for my wife at triple b clays, nice guy, great guy, but the second i pulled my shotguns from the back of the mini van, he said if i was pulled over i would be arrested since the shotguns were not in locked containers. I explained to him that was incorrect and he really should do some research on it.


I've had that argument with a CHP friend of mine, about loaded mag's in the same container, i referred him to the CHP site, he still didint believe it, i told him to get his cheat sheet book out and show me the code and he couldnt.

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  #43  
Old 01-25-2013, 4:23 PM
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The problem we have is a discrepancy between what is legal and what actuall is enforced.

Legally speaking loaded mags are kosher. What is enforced by the misguided police officers of CA is that its a verboten practice subject to arrest.

It's a similar situation to IL residents transporting guns in the trunk of their cars. Legally speaking in the Land of Lincoln you can travel by car, train or by foot with a pistol so long as its encased and unloaded. Realistically speaking you'll be jailed in Northeast IL if your weapon isn't locked in a hard case , despite it not being state law.

If the cops enforce FUD with the same weight as state law , you options are to comply or file suit after the fact. For what it's worth, most people will advise gun owners to comply with the not-law to ensure customers and patrons don't get jailed on the way to and from the range
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  #44  
Old 01-25-2013, 4:24 PM
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The problem we have is a discrepancy between what is legal and what actuall is enforced.

Legally speaking loaded mags are kosher. What is enforced by the misguided police officers of CA is that its a verboten practice subject to arrest.

It's a similar situation to IL residents transporting guns in the trunk of their cars. Legally speaking in the Land of Lincoln you can travel by car, train or by foot with a pistol so long as its encased and unloaded. Realistically speaking you'll be jailed in Northeast IL if your weapon isn't locked in a hard case , despite it not being state law.

If the cops enforce FUD with the same weight as state law , you options are to comply or file suit after the fact. For what it's worth, most people will advise gun owners to comply with the not-law to ensure customers and patrons don't get jailed on the way to and from the range
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  #45  
Old 01-25-2013, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronin2 View Post
How could you possibly ever go to the range? Two trips... One with the gun and another trip with the ammo...ROFL
Please don't give the antis this idea.


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  #46  
Old 01-25-2013, 4:31 PM
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http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/De..._in_California
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  #47  
Old 01-25-2013, 4:34 PM
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should have asked ole Doc Holiday if he was your huckleberry.
that's just my game
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  #48  
Old 01-25-2013, 4:42 PM
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+1 for calguns
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  #49  
Old 01-25-2013, 4:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Seaweed02 View Post
OK I guess I'll take that advice about quitting while I'm behind. Even the newbie is on my jock.
Let's let this one go, please.

It's up to every individual to take whatever risk he/she feels comfortable with; going beyond the requirements of the law is not a bad thing, so long as one knows and retells the actual limit.

Takes just one poorly trained LEO to ruin your day, even if the case is eventually thrown out.
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  #50  
Old 01-25-2013, 4:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Seaweed02 View Post
He is right if you don't have a CCW with that weapon listed. Had you been pulled over and your vehicle searched you would have likely been placed under arrest. You must travel with the weapon and magazines (empty) in a locked container. The ammo should not be stored in the same place as the container with the firearm. So if you have the ammo in the trunk, then your handgun should be in the back seat.

I have a CCW with three handguns listed. With those weapons I don't sweat it because I have permission to have them concealed and loaded. For all of my other weapons I travel with them in my back seat floor board of my truck, and the ammo I put in the bed of my truck. The handguns that are not listed on my CCW are always in locked containers/boxes, while the rifles just have to be unloaded.

I do this because I believe that to be the legal requirement. If I am wrong someone please let me know.

Loaded mags CAN be in the same container as the gun.

Container CAN be unlocked if it's in a locked trunk.

If the gun is inside your car/truck passenger compartment, then yes the container has to be locked but loaded mags can still be in the same container.

You can not have a magazine inserted into the gun. (excluding CCW of course)
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  #51  
Old 01-25-2013, 5:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Dark Mod View Post
It doesnt matter, your on private property, and you can legally walk around inside a range with a loaded gun if you want.
Might want to check the rules at your particular range. Loaded weapons behind the line are usually a no-no. Legal? Illegal? Doesn't matter if they're showing you the door. I know that starngers wandering around behind me with loaded guns would make me very nervous.
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  #52  
Old 01-25-2013, 5:15 PM
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What if you have an UNLOADED Magazine inside the Magazine Well, and the handgun is inside a LOCKED Container?


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Last edited by Tripeaks69; 01-25-2013 at 5:17 PM..
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  #53  
Old 01-25-2013, 5:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Let's let this one go, please.

It's up to every individual to take whatever risk he/she feels comfortable with; going beyond the requirements of the law is not a bad thing, so long as one knows and retells the actual limit.

Takes just one poorly trained LEO to ruin your day, even if the case is eventually thrown out.
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  #54  
Old 01-25-2013, 5:24 PM
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Dont worry op. I was at a LGS and head the guy say the same thing. He also said that if the purchaser had questions he had to return to the store to ask, call local PD, or state DOJ. "Dont ask your friends or go on calguns and ask your questions. They dont know what theyre talking about."

For the record, I had a run in with that specific employee previous to that. He tried to tell me that Coast Guard was military (they're DHS and can be detailed to military units) and a few other things which just further proved to me a few things. 1 - a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing and 2 - it takes a lot to prove you're knowledgeable, but only 1 to prove your ignorance.
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  #55  
Old 01-25-2013, 5:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Fishslayer View Post
Might want to check the rules at your particular range. Loaded weapons behind the line are usually a no-no. Legal? Illegal? Doesn't matter if they're showing you the door. I know that starngers wandering around behind me with loaded guns would make me very nervous.
My point was the attendant telling someone its illegal to walk up to a counter with a loaded magazine is extra retarded, since the law hes misquoting would only apply to someone outside the gun range.

Even if that was the law, a cop couldnt burst into the room an arrest him since its private property, and taking a look 15 feet to the rear will reveal dozens of people not only with loaded magazines in the same box as their gun, but also inside the gun an firing bullets out of it.

The law he was misquoting doesnt specify a certain part of a range you can have a loaded gun at, as long as your inside the building its legit.

At the very worst he was breaking a store rule, which isnt enforceable by the police, so saying that a cop will arrest you for that is asinine for 26 reasons instead of 25
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  #56  
Old 01-25-2013, 5:33 PM
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I was just at a birthday party for a former LEO friend with about 20 cops just last week, all were OC area. This was one of the questions I asked, how to transport my handgun and shotgun. They all said handguns should be in a locked container in the trunk or rear in my case as I have hatchback. Ammo should be on the opposite side of the car with mags UNLOADED. A few said some cops won't make a big deal about gun in the back and ammo in the glove but it just depends on the cop. Having said that, you have to be pretty ballsy to have a loaded magazine in the same container with your gun. Why risk it? You will most likely be arrested and arguing with the wrong cop could result in resisting arrest. Be on the safe side. They are more forgiving with long guns though. Keeping ammo and the gun together isn't a big deal.
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  #57  
Old 01-25-2013, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Seaweed02 View Post
OK I guess I'll take that advice about quitting while I'm behind. Even the newbie is on my jock.
Lol, it's all good man. We learn something everyday...
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  #58  
Old 01-25-2013, 5:43 PM
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I like how everyone jumped on the dude with ccw for not knowing the law. If he doesn't know he'll learn here. But don't jump on the guy and beat him down for it. How many of us have drivers license and know every word of the CVC? I don't , I guess that makes me an unsafe driver. So when you see me coming get out of the way, you have no business on the sidewalk anyways.
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  #59  
Old 01-25-2013, 5:48 PM
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As for the Op, maybe he was wrong maybe he was right. The clerk could have said something along the lines of "Don't know if you know this but I believe it's not correct to travel with loaded mags" or something along those lines. Then Op just would have to say " Ty, for letting me know" whether he knew or not, agreed or disagreed end of story.
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  #60  
Old 01-25-2013, 5:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripeaks69 View Post
What if you have an UNLOADED Magazine inside the Magazine Well, and the handgun is inside a LOCKED Container?


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Then the gun is unloaded.
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  #61  
Old 01-25-2013, 5:49 PM
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Originally Posted by DVSmith View Post
I always find this particular discussion interesting. I am not in the habit of keeping loaded magazines laying around and I certainly wouldn't pre-load them before going to the range. For some neurotic reason, I will even unload my home SD handgun if I am taking it along. I travel with my ammo in an ammo case or sometimes just the wallmart bag it came in. My guns are in a locked soft case. The magazines are almost anywhere. Some in my range bag, some in the guns, who knows.
Have an acquaintence that spent the better part of two days loading over 100 mags for a range trip with a friend of his. Saves time spent shooting.
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  #62  
Old 01-25-2013, 5:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 211275 View Post
I was just at a birthday party for a former LEO friend with about 20 cops just last week, all were OC area. This was one of the questions I asked, how to transport my handgun and shotgun. They all said handguns should be in a locked container in the trunk or rear in my case as I have hatchback. Ammo should be on the opposite side of the car with mags UNLOADED. A few said some cops won't make a big deal about gun in the back and ammo in the glove but it just depends on the cop. Having said that, you have to be pretty ballsy to have a loaded magazine in the same container with your gun. Why risk it? You will most likely be arrested and arguing with the wrong cop could result in resisting arrest. Be on the safe side. They are more forgiving with long guns though. Keeping ammo and the gun together isn't a big deal.
Yeah, you are right. Lets just let LEOs make up any laws they want and we can all try our best to follow them.

Great plan...
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  #63  
Old 01-25-2013, 6:05 PM
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I knew it as going to be the Magnum range. That place has became a joke over the years.
A few of the people that work there should learn to bite their tongue's and keep their opinions/beliefs to themselves. Some of them just assume that because we are there to shoot that we have other things in common.
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  #64  
Old 01-25-2013, 6:13 PM
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Exactly!

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Originally Posted by SacTown View Post
Completely wrong. Stop posting false information. Magazines can be loaded and in the same container as the firearm. You cannot however have the magazines inserted into the firearm magwell.

Straight from the CHP webpage: "Ammunition may be kept in the same container or trunk, but the handgun must remain unloaded with no rounds in the cylinder and no loaded magazines in the magazine well."
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  #65  
Old 01-25-2013, 6:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 211275 View Post
I was just at a birthday party for a former LEO friend with about 20 cops just last week, all were OC area. This was one of the questions I asked, how to transport my handgun and shotgun. They all said handguns should be in a locked container in the trunk or rear in my case as I have hatchback. Ammo should be on the opposite side of the car with mags UNLOADED. A few said some cops won't make a big deal about gun in the back and ammo in the glove but it just depends on the cop. Having said that, you have to be pretty ballsy to have a loaded magazine in the same container with your gun. Why risk it? You will most likely be arrested and arguing with the wrong cop could result in resisting arrest. Be on the safe side. They are more forgiving with long guns though. Keeping ammo and the gun together isn't a big deal.
Wow, I have to go through OC periodically on business. Work is on the other end of travel and detention wouldn't be critical (though annoying). I need to get pulled over for a minor infraction (perhaps changing lanes without signaling while speeding?). I could use an extra 20k.
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  #66  
Old 01-25-2013, 6:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Seaweed02 View Post
OK I guess I'll take that advice about quitting while I'm behind. Even the newbie is on my jock.
No Worries Carl.....

Here is the definition of Loaded:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in..._in_California

Ammunition may be carried in the same container as the gun – loose ammunition or ammunition in ammo boxes does not make a gun loaded, because the ammunition is NOT “placed into a position from which it can be fired”.

You may transport loaded magazines and speed loaders, so long as they are not inserted into the magazine well or cylinder of the firearm. That does not make a gun loaded, because the ammunition carried that way is NOT “placed into a position from which it can be fired”.

A loaded magazine is not the same as a loaded weapon, and possession of a weapon and a loaded magazine for that weapon does not, necessarily, mean you have a loaded weapon.

Anyone who asserts something contrary to the above 3 points is simply wrong. That does not mean you cannot be arrested by uninformed or badly trained law enforcement officer, or charged with the crime of carrying a loaded weapon by an uninformed or politically motivated prosecutor.


I feel comfortable with transporting my GLOCK 29 in this locked case:

Notice the loaded magazines not inserted into the gun.?



All zipped up it looks harmless and does not scream GUN to a casual observer.


Inside, under the foam I have a copy of the CHP statement and a copy of the front page of the WIKI. This may clear up some confusion if questioned.

As a side note a man was pulled over, arrested and taken to San Fernando PD jail for transporting legally. SFPD (city of San Fernando) paid out a lot of money for this mistake. $.

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Old 01-25-2013, 6:51 PM
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I am not in the habit of keeping loaded magazines laying around and I certainly wouldn't pre-load them before going to the range.

Some ranges charge by the hour so more loading/less shooting. It's not a such big deal with 10 rd mags, but with 5 or 6 preloaded standard capacity mags I could easily walk in at lunch, put 100 rounds downrange and still have time to grab some food on the way back to work.
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Old 01-25-2013, 7:30 PM
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Originally Posted by donny View Post
^ That's just wrong. It's sad a CCW holder knows so little about the law.

OP: Arguing with a moron pulls you down to his level. Just move on.
X2 "Should" and what the laws says are two different things
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Old 01-25-2013, 7:33 PM
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Originally Posted by DrewN View Post
I am not in the habit of keeping loaded magazines laying around and I certainly wouldn't pre-load them before going to the range.

Some ranges charge by the hour so more loading/less shooting. It's not a such big deal with 10 rd mags, but with 5 or 6 preloaded standard capacity mags I could easily walk in at lunch, put 100 rounds downrange and still have time to grab some food on the way back to work.
...but we are in CA where anything over 10 rounds is against the law, so thats a moot point.
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Old 01-25-2013, 7:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 211275 View Post
Most cops dont give two ****s what you think the law is and can easily arrest you, your word against his. You want to spend all the money on lawyers and legal fees when all you have to do is play it better safe than sorry? Idiotic.
By your reasoning you shouldn't even own a gun then. Or shouldn't leave the safety of your locked home. A cop COULD break into your house, plant cocaine on your couch, and then arrest you. Your word against his. You COULD be transporting your firearm locked in your trunk and your ammo locked up in the front, and the cop arrests you for having a loaded gun and then it's your word against his. Maybe you're going 26 in the 30 mph zone just to "play it safe" and the cop claims you were going 50. Maybe the officer is mistaken and cites you for exceeding a 20 mph speed limit when you were really in a 30 mph zone.

Your logic is a total fail. You could forever continue drawing out hypotheticals where the police officer either doesn't know the law or willfully disregards it and lies to get you busted. You can't protect yourself from these sorts of possibilities. Follow the law. That's all you can do. Don't make up and enforce extra laws on yourself because you think it's "safer."


I cannot believe that you think it's idiotic that somebody doesn't restrict themselves beyond the letter of the law just to "play it safe." We really are turning into a nation of veal calves.
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Last edited by JeremyS; 01-25-2013 at 7:42 PM..
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  #71  
Old 01-25-2013, 7:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronin2 View Post
How could you possibly ever go to the range? Two trips... One with the gun and another trip with the ammo...ROFL
Two trips?? Clearly, you would have your shooting buddy following you in his car with the ammo.
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  #72  
Old 01-25-2013, 7:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Seaweed02 View Post
He is right if you don't have a CCW with that weapon listed. Had you been pulled over and your vehicle searched you would have likely been placed under arrest. You must travel with the weapon and magazines (empty) in a locked container. The ammo should not be stored in the same place as the container with the firearm. So if you have the ammo in the trunk, then your handgun should be in the back seat.

I have a CCW with three handguns listed. With those weapons I don't sweat it because I have permission to have them concealed and loaded. For all of my other weapons I travel with them in my back seat floor board of my truck, and the ammo I put in the bed of my truck. The handguns that are not listed on my CCW are always in locked containers/boxes, while the rifles just have to be unloaded.

I do this because I believe that to be the legal requirement. If I am wrong someone please let me know.
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Don't get angry at me, but it seems you are so pissed off that you didn't read the CHP FAQ. It clearly says that the magazines are to be unloaded.
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OK fellas, I'll quit. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, but that is how I travel because it just takes one person to translate the law a different way, and you end up trying to beat the charge. I stay anal on myself to make sure no one else can end up ruining my year by being more anal than me.
Holy ****, how do you have a CCW?
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  #73  
Old 01-25-2013, 7:56 PM
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Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
Two trips?? Clearly, you would have your shooting buddy following you in his car with the ammo.
OR, maybe the nice policeman would help you out and save you a trip....
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  #74  
Old 01-25-2013, 8:00 PM
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...but we are in CA where anything over 10 rounds is against the law, so thats a moot point.
Here we go........

LOL
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Old 01-25-2013, 8:05 PM
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...but we are in CA where anything over 10 rounds is against the law, so thats a moot point.
LIAR!!!! manufacuring, selling and importing is illegal. USING MY STANDARD capacity magazines is in no way illegal unless it clasifies my weapon an asault weapon.. see AW flow chart.
I am truely suprised to see the amount of FUD you are spewing when all of the correct (LEGAL) anwers are just a click away are you that IGNORANT?
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  #76  
Old 01-25-2013, 8:17 PM
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...but we are in CA where anything over 10 rounds is against the law, so thats a moot point.
Did the LEOs at the party tell you this also?

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Old 01-25-2013, 8:21 PM
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Why do people feel the need to volunteer information without first verifying its accuracy?

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  #78  
Old 01-25-2013, 8:32 PM
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For the record, I had a run in with that specific employee previous to that. He tried to tell me that Coast Guard was military (they're DHS and can be detailed to military units) and a few other things which just further proved to me a few things. 1 - a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing and 2 - it takes a lot to prove you're knowledgeable, but only 1 to prove your ignorance.
I bet the people in the Coast Guard would be surprised to find out they aren't considered to be one of the five branches of the armed forces anymore. Especially given this from the about us page over at uscg.mil

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The U.S. Coast Guard is one of the five armed forces of the United States and the only military organization within the Department of Homeland Security.
But hey, what do they know anyway?

[/threadjack]

Last edited by 67goat; 01-25-2013 at 9:54 PM.. Reason: Stupid autocorrect screwed up URL.
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  #79  
Old 01-25-2013, 8:43 PM
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I was just at a birthday party for a former LEO friend with about 20 cops just last week, all were OC area. This was one of the questions I asked, how to transport my handgun and shotgun. They all said handguns should be in a locked container in the trunk or rear in my case as I have hatchback. Ammo should be on the opposite side of the car with mags UNLOADED. A few said some cops won't make a big deal about gun in the back and ammo in the glove but it just depends on the cop. Having said that, you have to be pretty ballsy to have a loaded magazine in the same container with your gun. Why risk it? You will most likely be arrested and arguing with the wrong cop could result in resisting arrest. Be on the safe side. They are more forgiving with long guns though. Keeping ammo and the gun together isn't a big deal.

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Originally Posted by 211275 View Post
...but we are in CA where anything over 10 rounds is against the law, so thats a moot point.


You need to read more and open your mouth (or keyboard) less.
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Old 01-25-2013, 8:53 PM
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aghauler aghauler is offline
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Originally Posted by Kodemonkey View Post
Send them a link to the CGF press release I just posted.

Then send them to the CHP website and have them read their own departments FAQ.

I'm sure there are many lawyers that would love to sue the CHP. The thing that gets me in the LASD battle is that the watch commander even said the guns were unloaded but they still arrested him.
I hope the fella posts the reaction of his CHP neighbors to being informed they are WRONG in their interpretation of the law. That will be interesting!
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