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  #1  
Old 01-24-2013, 9:52 PM
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Default My sig jammed, can anyone help?

Took the baby out today, P229Enhanced Elite .40.
I went up a mountain, under some trees, there was lots of fog so we were practically getting rained on. I had 180gr Winchester cheapo whitebox stuff, and some Remington UMC mega pack 180gr. The Winchester jammed about 5-7 times through the 50 round box. Pretty sad. The Remington only had 1 or 2 out of 100 rounds. I am a noob, so please bear with my lack of knowledge and terms.

I believe it was jamming during the feeding process. The spent casing was ejected properly every time, but upon loading the new round from the mag, the slide would not return all the way forward. The rounds were seated in the barrel fully it seemed, but the part that is pointed to and says "LOADED WHEN UP" was not being lifted by the round.
I didnt take photos then, and I dont have any snapcaps, actually have some coming from amazon soon so I can mess with those when I get them, as I dont really want to be playing around with live rounds in my house.

The groove in the barrel that is supposed to fit with that part was not fitting all the way in, even though the round was fully seated into the barrel.







Excuse the mess, I am about to clean it. Wanted to post this before I get greasy.
It worked most of the time, but the first maybe, 2000 rounds, I put through without issue. Then today I had maybe 10 failures. I want to know why.
Does anyone have any ideas? Could it have been the wet and slightly warm weather? That idea doesnt sit well with me. The mags? My spring? The ammo?
Maybe the round is being loaded into the barrel before the slide can return to the proper position and instead of pushing that part up and being seated properly it was pressing against it.


Also, on a side note, is that little gouge, seen in the last photo on the back left of the slide, is that from improper greasing? I used it right out of the box when I got it at first. No more than 500 rounds, but I think it did that. After those first few trips, maybe even only one, I learned to grease it well.
Thanks everyone, have a good night.
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Last edited by omnitravis; 01-25-2013 at 12:29 PM..
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  #2  
Old 01-24-2013, 10:21 PM
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Are they factory mags (MEC GAR)? Are you limp wristing (normally causes FTE, not FTF)? I think if you have fired 2000 rounds without issue and now you do I would give it a very good cleaning and lubrication. From the pics it looks pretty dirty with a lot of brass deposits. Did the LCI make a mark in the FTF case?? if It did it may have crap in it not allowing it to function. If you still have an issue after a thorough cleaning and lube, it will be time to look deeper.
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  #3  
Old 01-24-2013, 10:42 PM
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You win some and you lose some with some batches of ammo and it could very much be a quality issue, but a good through cleaning would be in order. Pay attention to the feed ramp, and very lightly coat the ramp with gun oil.

That gouge, as long as it is not deep enough to deform the lip of the slide shouldn't cause a problem. Looks more aesthetic than anything.
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  #4  
Old 01-24-2013, 10:46 PM
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They are factory mags. Tried 2 different ones. Pretty sure I am not limp wrisitng. I am just finishing cleaning right now, gave it a good go tonight after taking it out in the wet conditions.
What does LCI mean? Is that the orange part I am mentioning? There were slight marks in the cases, yes, but nothing major. I actually fired a few of them again with no problems. One or two of them jammed again and I threw them out. Next time I will remember to take a lot of pictures of everything going wrong.

I appreciate your time and input, thank you.
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  #5  
Old 01-24-2013, 10:48 PM
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QC on factory Winchester stuff lately has been abysmally bad. I'd try other ammo and see if it clears up. 100 value packs right?
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  #6  
Old 01-24-2013, 10:58 PM
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LCI means loaded chamber indicator or that bar on top of the slide when a round is in the chamber. Something only found in CA, you should have single shot'd a regular enhanced and got one without that feature.

Anyways clean that sucker real good and make sure it's properly lubed and if it still has problems then have it checked out if a different kind of ammo doesn't fix the problem.

I'd try some federal or some speer I've never had a malfunction with federal ever when the gun was clean and lubed correctly.
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  #7  
Old 01-24-2013, 11:16 PM
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Thanks, Black Majick and dfens. It was Winchester value pack stuff. It was pretty clean, I haven't done more than a field strip, I think I would be in over my head. Do I have to do more than that to clean the LCI?
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  #8  
Old 01-24-2013, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omnitravis View Post
They are factory mags. Tried 2 different ones. Pretty sure I am not limp wrisitng. I am just finishing cleaning right now, gave it a good go tonight after taking it out in the wet conditions.
What does LCI mean? Is that the orange part I am mentioning? There were slight marks in the cases, yes, but nothing major. I actually fired a few of them again with no problems. One or two of them jammed again and I threw them out. Next time I will remember to take a lot of pictures of everything going wrong.

I appreciate your time and input, thank you.
LCI = Loaded Chamber Indicator.

No limp wristing = good.

Factory Mags and multiple mags eliminates a mag problem (unless it was only one of them).

Based on your description of the FTF issue and the weapon not going into lockup I would really look for marks from the LCI in the cases that did not feed. This may be an indication that the LCI is not allowing lock up. Clean and inspect The LCI thoroughly.
Another thought is to use a go no go gauge and check the ammo you were having problems with. If you don't have a go/no go gauge, pull out you barrel and use the chamber to check. The rounds should fall completely into a clean chamber. If they take any force to chamber and your chamber is indeed clean, you may have as stated above, a bad batch of ammunition.

So far it sounds like your doing everything right.
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  #9  
Old 01-25-2013, 1:45 AM
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The LCI Kills the look on any gun that has it
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  #10  
Old 01-25-2013, 6:15 AM
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Would a simple slide swap eliminate the lci all together or is some part of it in the frame
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  #11  
Old 01-25-2013, 6:20 AM
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According to a local gun smith (Bolsa Gunsmithing), the rim on the winchester ammo you are shooting is not "clean and sharp" but has a bit of a bevel to it, not giving the extractor decent purchase on it. Also, it looks like you may be shooting your gun too "wet".

I know none of my Browning hi -powers will function reliably with the Winchester white box WalMart bulk ammo. The all function perfectly (zero failures) with UMC, PMC and Federal ammo. All my other weapons eat anything i feed them
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  #12  
Old 01-25-2013, 7:41 AM
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Hey Ronin, thanks.
I put quite a bit of grease on the rails of the slide, to prevent grinding/gouging. It then rack the slide quite a few times and clean up excess grease the gets pushed out. I will try a little less next time, see if that helps.
That is what you meant by too wet, is too much grease?
Or the rain?
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  #13  
Old 01-25-2013, 7:47 AM
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Something looks wrong with the spring in your picture
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  #14  
Old 01-25-2013, 8:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seabee1 View Post
Something looks wrong with the spring in your picture
What something?
Not straight or what? I appreciate any help/input, I'm relatively new to firearms and not very mechanically inclined.
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  #15  
Old 01-25-2013, 8:38 AM
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The right side appears to be unravelling
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Old 01-25-2013, 8:38 AM
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Is it possible a piece broke off?
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Old 01-25-2013, 9:09 AM
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http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o01_s01_i00
That is the grease I was/am using. (Mil-Comm TW25B)
Here are some pics of the spring. There is a little tip pn one of the the strands, it is and has always been that way, longer than the others.





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  #18  
Old 01-25-2013, 9:23 AM
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The spring looks fine. I would stress about it. the other issues listed above is what I would do FIRST. Then look at other possibilities if your problem still exists.
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Old 01-25-2013, 9:27 AM
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I think it looks ok in these pics, the original pic looked weird, but no I can see it better

Probably funky ammo
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  #20  
Old 01-25-2013, 11:32 AM
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A couple of things first:
1. The spring looks fine
2. There is no such thing as running a SIG too wet. As you've discovered, racking the slide self corrects any excess grease.


Quote:
is that little gouge, seen in the last photo on the back left of the slide, is that from improper greasing?
If you are referring to the divot in the rail of the slide, it isn't a flaw. It is there to allow the trigger bar to rise as the action cycles.

I'd recommend trying different ammo. I won't run UMC or WWB in my SIGs. For range ammo I usually use either Blaser (either brass or aluminum) or Federal.

Be sure to slather some grease on the side of the LCI and drop some oil on the pivot pin
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:36 AM
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Clean and lube that fine piece of German metal.
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  #22  
Old 01-25-2013, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofojoe View Post
Clean and lube that fine piece of German metal.
I'm pretty sure all modern Sigs are made in the US now.
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  #23  
Old 01-25-2013, 11:41 AM
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Limpwristing.
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  #24  
Old 01-25-2013, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
the slide would not return all the way back
You mean forward, and since it seems you have 2000 rounds through it, a spring change is mandatory with that sort of failure. Funky ammo could certainly be part of the problem.

Limpwristing is what Glocks have a problem with. Good guns shoot upside down, sideways, and off handed.
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
You mean forward, and since it seems you have 2000 rounds through it, a spring change is mandatory with that sort of failure. Funky ammo could certainly be part of the problem.

Limpwristing is what Glocks have a problem with. Good guns shoot upside down, sideways, and off handed.
Thanks, sorry for the confusion.
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Last edited by omnitravis; 01-25-2013 at 12:26 PM..
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:21 PM
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So the slide was locked open? Or stuck open?

Maybe this model does it differently?
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:25 PM
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It was stuck, the round wasnt properly fitting under the LCI, and the slide could not return to firing position. Definitely wasnt locked, I was easily able to pull the slide back, get that round out, close slide and then chamber a new round to fix the jams.
I do mean forward... My apologies, lol.
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omnitravis View Post
It was stuck, the round wasnt properly fitting under the LCI, and the slide could not return to firing position. Definitely wasnt locked, I was easily able to pull the slide forward, get that round out, close slide and then chamber a new round to fix the jams.
I do mean forward... My apologies, lol.
Ok so change the spring, the gun is used. Feed ramp and ammo can probably be improved, but it worked ok before, isn't broken, should work again. Clean it well too. That LCI doesn't make anything work better.

Semantics are a son of a gun, no?
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Old 01-28-2013, 9:19 PM
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I took it out for a test today. Same winnie white box ammo. Had a few jams again, I took some photos this time though.
This is about to get pic heavy, I apologize to dial up and phone users.

I gave it a good cleaning between the last time it happened and this time, making sure to clean/oil the LCI well.












Next time I go out I will bring a box of my federal HPs, since I cant find any other ammo to test out. I've had a few hundred of the winchester on hand, and it is all I have for range ammo right now.
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Last edited by omnitravis; 01-28-2013 at 11:38 PM..
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omnitravis
The rounds were seated in the barrel fully it seemed, but the part that is pointed to and says "LOADED WHEN UP" was not being lifted by the round.
Those rounds aren't seated fully in the barrel...or what we commonly call not fully chambered. The reason your LCI isn't being lifted is because you round hasn't made it all the way into the chamber...so it isn't loaded.

You're going to have to call SIG and send it back to be fixed. The extractor is applying too much tension for the case rim to slide up under the hook. It was a flaw in some 229s when they first went to the long extractors
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Old 01-29-2013, 7:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
You're going to have to call SIG and send it back to be fixed. The extractor is applying too much tension for the case rim to slide up under the hook. It was a flaw in some 229s when they first went to the long extractors
Would this not have shown up out of the box? I had fired quite a few boxes of ammo before ever having this happen.
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Old 01-29-2013, 8:10 PM
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Not always.

Much like the internal extractor problem with some 220STs, it is a matter of stacked tolerances.

You don't have to call, you can just keep shooting it to see it it cures itself, but on a new gun, I'd rather have them look into it.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin2 View Post
According to a local gun smith (Bolsa Gunsmithing), the rim on the winchester ammo you are shooting is not "clean and sharp" but has a bit of a bevel to it, not giving the extractor decent purchase on it. Also, it looks like you may be shooting your gun too "wet".

I know none of my Browning hi -powers will function reliably with the Winchester white box WalMart bulk ammo. The all function perfectly (zero failures) with UMC, PMC and Federal ammo. All my other weapons eat anything i feed them

Thank GOD all my centerfire guns eat an sh#$ WWB like a fat kids love cake! I hate ammo picky guns...such a pain to stock multiple brands of the same ammo. When centerfire guns start acting like whiny .22s I say sell em asap!
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Old 01-30-2013, 2:12 PM
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So, did you try what another poster suggested:

1. Diassemble pistol
2. Drop each round into the barrel to make sure it goes in with a "plunk" and slides out easily helped only by gravity.

I've found some white boxed ammo that will not even fit in the barrel chamber even when persuaded with a mallet!
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Old 01-30-2013, 4:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja45 View Post
So, did you try what another poster suggested:

1. Diassemble pistol
2. Drop each round into the barrel to make sure it goes in with a "plunk" and slides out easily helped only by gravity.

I've found some white boxed ammo that will not even fit in the barrel chamber even when persuaded with a mallet!
Yeah, even the ones I saved that were jams fit fine. They all slide out fine too, nice and smoothly when I tilt them out.
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