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Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

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  #1  
Old 01-23-2013, 1:02 PM
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Default Women in combat MOS: It's a GO

Women will be cleared for having combat MOS' in battalion or higher roles. Roughly opens up 15000 duty positions as well as 200000 infantry unit positions in the Army and Marines. This includes SOCOM units such as Rangers, BUD/S EOD, CAG/Delta, etc.

It will be officially announced Thursday, 1/24/13.

Those who doubted the day would come... well, it's here. And the DoD has until 2016 to implement it.
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Old 01-23-2013, 1:47 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/ap-sources-pan...-politics.html

I for one think this is a bad move unless there is ONE standard. Right now there are 2 standards for woman and men in the military and this will be unexceptable to me if it stays that way. I dont care what anyone of you say I have been in combat and just think
1.) The country has trouble with men dying let alone more woman
2.) Hygeine issues. Men may not shower or bathe for weeks at time and i know woman have to maintain better hygeine than men(just the way the pipes work)
3.) Interaction with men and woman in combat will lead to more pregnancies in the field and men making sad sacrafices to protect woman.

I am sorry if this sounds sexist but the military is not thinking right now.

Again I will support it if there is ONE standard and they hump the same gear,same weight,same distance. I just dont think they made good decision based on just last year 2 female offices didnt make it past 4 weeks in Infantry Officer School.
I would like to know what people think?? Especially from my fellow servicemembers.
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Old 01-23-2013, 1:49 PM
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Originally Posted by NiteQwill View Post
Women will be cleared for having combat MOS' in battalion or higher roles. Roughly opens up 15000 duty positions as well as 200000 infantry unit positions in the Army and Marines. This includes SOCOM units such as Rangers, BUD/S EOD, CAG/Delta, etc.

It will be officially announced Thursday, 1/24/13.

Those who doubted the day would come... well, it's here. And the DoD has until 2016 to implement it.
As of now this does not include the special warfare community. That wont happen till later dates and I am sure those groups will still close it to woman. The article said that could come later but they want to hear reports from SPECWAR community.

Sorry if i sound sexist but I sadly think there will be 2 diff. standards still and will result in more unneccessary dead especially more woman and my brothers
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Old 01-23-2013, 1:51 PM
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But as of now all i can say is you asked for it ladies and america now prove us wrong cause you will be under the microscope now and I will be damned if you dont cut it I will let you know and do whats in my power to get you away from my marines if you cant handle your load just as I do with the weak men
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Old 01-23-2013, 2:31 PM
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Battalion or higher......this means alot of admin slots will be filled by women. I don't think this will translate into GI Jane alongside PV2 Snuff at the Company and down level.
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Old 01-23-2013, 2:46 PM
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In the words of the King Leonidas of Sparta "A Spartan's true strength is the warrior next to him, we fight as a single imperable unit that is the source of our strength".
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Old 01-23-2013, 2:50 PM
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I wonder if they'll hold them to the same standard since they'll be given the same opportunities. Probably not.
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Old 01-23-2013, 3:10 PM
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I wonder if they'll hold them to the same standard since they'll be given the same opportunities. Probably not.
I agree they will have 2 standards like today. That way they dont look like idiots. No matter what. SPECWAR will never let them into that community. Thats will always be the Boys club
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Old 01-23-2013, 4:00 PM
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This is terrible on so many levels. Plain and simple it's a bad idea regardless of standards. One thing that makes the infantry effective is a brotherhood. That is all gone.
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Old 01-23-2013, 4:30 PM
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it has long been the dream of the left to use the military as a social petri dish.

personally if females want to be Infantry then they must conform to the male standards of the APFT period and there are some here who said their BN's made a higher than the passing 180 to the norm.

correct me if i'am wrong on this.
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  #11  
Old 01-23-2013, 5:10 PM
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Originally Posted by navycorpsman View Post
I agree they will have 2 standards like today. That way they dont look like idiots. No matter what. SPECWAR will never let them into that community. Thats will always be the Boys club
You're kidding right? They're already there. Without giving out on opsec, there are usually 2 or more female teams that serve within the entire CJSOTF-a (and go out with the teams). It has been this way, although not advertised, since 2010.
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Old 01-23-2013, 5:34 PM
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Being part of a CST or FET is not the same as being an assaulter.

Having been in combat with women, I have nothing but negative things to say about the presence of "those people" on the battlefield. That being said, I haven't been in combat with every single women on earth. If she can hack it, I really don't care. The issue with that though is basic training is just basic training. There is no assessment or selection going on. It weeds out the weakest, but the weak still get through as long as they don't get medically dropped, refuse to train or have serious safety violations. You can get peered out of basic which might help, but negative peer evals don't trump basic training companies wanting high graduation rates. In other words, there are men that can't hack it that make it onto the line. Women that can't hack it will also make it onto the line. There ratio of non hackers to hackers is significantly higher with women. Adding women into the infantry would just make the overall ration of non hackers to hackers higher, thereby making the Army weaker. If basic training cadre could actually pick and choose soldiers to kick out, then I'd be all for women in the infantry. Of course, then you would have to have drill sergeant's be more thoroughly assessed as well.

I'm pretty sure the article is just referring to women serving at the battalion level though. Which I have no issue with. I couldn't care less about the gender of the pog's up in battalion. Company, that's a different story.

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Old 01-23-2013, 5:57 PM
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Originally Posted by NiteQwill View Post
You're kidding right? They're already there. Without giving out on opsec, there are usually 2 or more female teams that serve within the entire CJSOTF-a (and go out with the teams). It has been this way, although not advertised, since 2010.
Earlier than that my friend and could run and shoot with the best of them..... Im sure if women do become a fixture in those spec communities they wont be your typical LOOKING woman all bikini trim with beautiful long hair flowing in the breeze..Theyll truly be women a guy will look at as his equal. Hygiene is such an old excuse because women who workout a lot dont pms that bad and there are pills and hormone injections thatll stop a cycle in its tracks. Ive tussled with a few females who are stronger than men and Im almost 200 lbs and no punk. The US realizes that in other countries and on various SWAT teams around the country, women are effective combatants... Dont think so? Check this out http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=723_1279756768

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  #14  
Old 01-23-2013, 6:08 PM
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Yeah, shooting a dude is a lot different than humping 100 pounds of kit through rough terrain and maneuvering for miles and miles because the enemy won't stop running.

Try this. Get one of your bigger friends. Put a 50 pound (which as far as kit goes is fairly light) weighted vest on him. Put a 50 pound vest on yourself. Tell him to play dead. Try to drag him. Try to pick him up and run. It's probably pretty hard. Now tell me that you know a single chick that could do that while machine guns are shooting at her.

And hygiene is an issue. You might go for months without showering depending where you end up. Can you imagine calling a medevac because your female squad leader has a yeast infection? It's hard to douche when you're out in the middle of nowhere.

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Old 01-23-2013, 6:30 PM
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Originally Posted by NiteQwill View Post
You're kidding right? They're already there. Without giving out on opsec, there are usually 2 or more female teams that serve within the entire CJSOTF-a (and go out with the teams). It has been this way, although not advertised, since 2010.
I am talking about being operators, not joint task force and support for Specwar
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Old 01-23-2013, 6:35 PM
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Originally Posted by chris View Post
it has long been the dream of the left to use the military as a social petri dish.

personally if females want to be Infantry then they must conform to the male standards of the APFT period and there are some here who said their BN's made a higher than the passing 180 to the norm.

correct me if i'am wrong on this.
I'd hardly call us the testing ground for this. Women have been integrated into the military's of various countries in various capacities, including infantry, over the last few decades. New Zealand allows women to try out for their SAS even- the catch being that the standards don't change.

I fully support stringent standards, regardless of demographics. Hell, I think the bare minimum standards just to stay in the Army are too damn low- we've got **** bags of all shapes, sizes, and genders


But, I think I've made my position clear in the OT thread on this subject. I'll drive myself nuts trying to make the same arguments in two different places .
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Old 01-23-2013, 9:12 PM
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Well if equality is what is truly desired I suppose one thing toward achieving this is by putting equal numbers of women on the front lines. When there are an equal number of female amputees and DOA's the public might have a different perception of war. Then have them play as linemen in the NFL and you have it. Equality!
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Old 01-23-2013, 9:56 PM
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Originally Posted by NiteQwill View Post
You're kidding right? They're already there. Without giving out on opsec, there are usually 2 or more female teams that serve within the entire CJSOTF-a (and go out with the teams). It has been this way, although not advertised, since 2010.
We had two females in my platoon running convoy security throughout RC East. They were there with us every firefight, IED, RPG, and mortar. We even slept in the same tent when on mission.
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Old 01-24-2013, 6:58 AM
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I'd hardly call us the testing ground for this. Women have been integrated into the military's of various countries in various capacities, including infantry, over the last few decades. New Zealand allows women to try out for their SAS even- the catch being that the standards don't change.

I fully support stringent standards, regardless of demographics. Hell, I think the bare minimum standards just to stay in the Army are too damn low- we've got **** bags of all shapes, sizes, and genders


But, I think I've made my position clear in the OT thread on this subject. I'll drive myself nuts trying to make the same arguments in two different places .
I have no problem with one standard for everyone, a standard that is higher than the male standard today, or even the current male standard. However, when no women are able to meet that standard, the ACLU and other organizations are going to have a b*tch fest and talking about suing and other crap and the leadership, i.e. the pentagon not some company commander, will cave and standards will be lowered so that a perceived acceptable number or percentage of women pass and we as a fighting force will all suffer because of it.
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Old 01-24-2013, 7:17 AM
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We had two females in my platoon running convoy security throughout RC East. They were there with us every firefight, IED, RPG, and mortar. We even slept in the same tent when on mission.
I hope they didnt do this because of very select few. And many countries that integrate woman into infantry etc are countries where population is not on there side and they aernt pampered americans.
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Old 01-24-2013, 8:26 AM
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0369: Foxhole Entertainment... is what the USMC recruiter told my friend she was going in as, but this was years ago (like 15 years ago)
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Old 01-24-2013, 1:55 PM
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I was in the Army on tanks, 19k. I could not imagine having a female as a loader, 'humping' 50+ lb HEAT rounds into the breech in the heat of combat. I could not see her helping out with track maintenance or crawling around in 4 foot deep mud to recover a broken down vehicle.
Women should not be allowed in Armor, Infantry, or Artillery. It requires immense physical strength, which biologically they do not posses.
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Old 01-24-2013, 2:07 PM
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We had two females in my platoon running convoy security throughout RC East. They were there with us every firefight, IED, RPG, and mortar. We even slept in the same tent when on mission.
Convoy security is a lot different than movement to contact, a raid, or even a simple presence patrol. My issue isn't with women being able to mentally handle war. Almost everyone can be indoctrinated to stress. I'm more worried about them being able to move 17 clicks at night while humping enough food, water, and gear to last them for 11 days. Or being able to pick up a wounded soldier with gear on. Or running 6 clicks to a platoon that got pinned down. In full gear. A saw gunner with 800 rounds is gonna be carrying at the very least at least 70 pounds. And that's packing light.

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Old 01-24-2013, 2:35 PM
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Summary:
If women are held to same standards nobody will b**ch.

Reality:
They wont, people will die.
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Old 01-24-2013, 3:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Massan View Post
Summary:

Reality:
They wont, people will die.
Yes, but more of them can be women now.
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Old 01-24-2013, 4:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SpunkyJivl View Post
I was in the Army on tanks, 19k. I could not imagine having a female as a loader, 'humping' 50+ lb HEAT rounds into the breech in the heat of combat. I could not see her helping out with track maintenance or crawling around in 4 foot deep mud to recover a broken down vehicle.
Women should not be allowed in Armor, Infantry, or Artillery. It requires immense physical strength, which biologically they do not posses.
Or a 100 pound 155 shell inside of a Paladin. My Effects NCO used to be a Paladin gunner and he said they would never use the load assist, they would brute force the shells from the carriage to the breach, because it was faster and when lives are on the line, you move as fast as possible.
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Old 01-24-2013, 6:35 PM
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I wonder if they will get pregnant when they find out combat is not that much fun?
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Old 01-24-2013, 7:45 PM
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Guys this is old news. Women have been in Spec Ops since GI Jane.
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Old 01-24-2013, 7:47 PM
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I wonder if they will get pregnant when they find out combat is not that much fun?
Some by choice and some not. You'll always have dumbasses who can't understand the word no.
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Old 01-24-2013, 9:31 PM
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Let them serve in combat, but in their own segregated platoons.
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Old 01-24-2013, 9:31 PM
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dltd

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Old 01-24-2013, 9:55 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/ap-sources-pan...-politics.html

I for one think this is a bad move unless there is ONE standard. Right now there are 2 standards for woman and men in the military and this will be unexceptable to me if it stays that way. I dont care what anyone of you say I have been in combat and just think
1.) The country has trouble with men dying let alone more woman
2.) Hygeine issues. Men may not shower or bathe for weeks at time and i know woman have to maintain better hygeine than men(just the way the pipes work)
3.) Interaction with men and woman in combat will lead to more pregnancies in the field and men making sad sacrafices to protect woman.

I am sorry if this sounds sexist but the military is not thinking right now.

Again I will support it if there is ONE standard and they hump the same gear,same weight,same distance. I just dont think they made good decision based on just last year 2 female offices didnt make it past 4 weeks in Infantry Officer School.
I would like to know what people think?? Especially from my fellow servicemembers.
I am a Marine combat vet, what about the effect it will have on the men in the unit. Not a good idea. I agree with you
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Old 01-25-2013, 2:41 AM
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I wonder if they will get pregnant when they find out combat is not that much fun?
I respect any Marine that drinks beer, and eats pu... ... punky-wood chips WITH me...

Does a WM in Bootcamp make them hump their pack as Male Marines, with the same amount of weight, in the same amount of time? If so, and there is no crying, then I say give it a test program...

Pregnancy and enlistment might be an option for those that decide to mother a child (extend the time taken to their the contract if you are worried about it), as they may be out of commission for a while during, and after pregnancy.

I can see their presence in the field being a distraction, though, as grape-jelly eventually runs out...

I see an issue with some making an issue of what is said in the field... as it has never needed to be modified before.
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Old 01-25-2013, 3:20 AM
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FMFdevildoc FMFdevildoc is offline
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I thought GI Jane was real? God damn Hollywood lied to me.

I can't imagine WMs in my infantry company. I've got one female Corpsman attached to us & as a Corpsman, she is excellent. Now with Panetta's announcement, I wonder how we will proceed?

As it stands, we have to make arrangements to insure her needs are met & what not. Not a big issue, helps that she truly is a good performer. Haven't had any sammiches yet, but I'm certain she would tell me to **** off & pound sand if I asked for a sammiches. LOL
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by FMFdevildoc View Post
I thought GI Jane was real? God damn Hollywood lied to me.

I can't imagine WMs in my infantry company. I've got one female Corpsman attached to us & as a Corpsman, she is excellent. Now with Panetta's announcement, I wonder how we will proceed?

As it stands, we have to make arrangements to insure her needs are met & what not. Not a big issue, helps that she truly is a good performer. Haven't had any sammiches yet, but I'm certain she would tell me to **** off & pound sand if I asked for a sammiches. LOL

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Old 01-25-2013, 11:54 AM
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We allowed Women in the Engineers about 8 years ago in the U.K and after being told the standards wouldn't change blah, blah. Guess what - suddenly Selection for women involved assisted Push ups, less sit ups and a longer run time.

Then on an actual job such as a bridge build where every muscle is needed...They couldn't perform. Guess who needed to go above and beyond...
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:11 PM
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We allowed Women in the Engineers about 8 years ago in the U.K and after being told the standards wouldn't change blah, blah. Guess what - suddenly Selection for women involved assisted Push ups, less sit ups and a longer run time.

Then on an actual job such as a bridge build where every muscle is needed...They couldn't perform. Guess who needed to go above and beyond...
and this will end up that way here. Sadly
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Old 01-25-2013, 2:59 PM
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They also were pushed onto all the courses early so we could show EOD trained Females etc...Didn't matter if they needed the Qual or not.
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Old 01-25-2013, 3:09 PM
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All in the name of equality...

What all the feminists and supporters don't get is that most mil personnel don't care if women get allowed in combat. What we care about is the fact that standards will be altered again and lives lost just to show diversity. Bluntly put, we're here to kill the enemy and when politics and social engineering gets in the way people die. Fathers, brothers, mothers, daughters do not come home all because some nancy prissy pen pusher wants to pretend their life isn't worthless. Something to justify their daily Starbucks. Reality is standards are not standard.
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Old 01-25-2013, 3:23 PM
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I can understand different standards for women but not lesser. If women have less upper body strength why do the do less sit ups?
We seem to be having a lot of experiments during this administration. We can only hope it is not weakening our military
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