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  #81  
Old 01-24-2013, 1:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bsgesch View Post
Shoot no more than 500 rounds, then replace your gun(s). Problem solved.
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Originally Posted by tal3nt View Post
two thousand three hundred and seventy two rounds. the magic #
Thanks.
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  #82  
Old 01-24-2013, 1:31 PM
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Originally Posted by tal3nt View Post
It goes without question that glocks are excellent firearms. but some of you worship james yeager way too much.. cough* tuna
^ Lol. Good one, and very true.
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  #83  
Old 01-24-2013, 1:56 PM
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Originally Posted by tal3nt View Post
It goes without question that glocks are excellent firearms. but some of you worship james yeager way too much.. cough* tuna
Quote:
Originally Posted by InGrAM View Post
^ Lol. Good one, and very true.
Not particularly, but if you would actually READ and COMPREHEND what I wrote, you'd see why I posted the Yeager quote. He is one of many who actually use their firearms, and he too believes wholeheartedly in modern striker-fired designs.

But don't let intelligent discussion get in the way of your attempt at trolling and thread derailing.
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  #84  
Old 01-24-2013, 1:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Born To Glock View Post
Can we turn the discussion to something that may be more generally helpful than the like or dislike of Glocks?

Based on the information in this thread so far, the general consensus seems to be that this is a defect that is unlikely to be very common (Gryff suggested that it's a 1-in-100000 occurrence, and IPSICK suggested that this is an overestimation which may be off by a factor of 10 or 100.)

So, my question is: When I purchase a new Glock (or ANY handgun for that matter), how many rounds should I put through it in order to satisfy myself that my new Glock (or other handgun) is not defective? Is there a minimum number?

In other words, what's the best way to ensure that this type of defect doesn't present itself when your life is on the line?

It seems to me that this question is a valid question, regardless of whether we're talking about Glocks, Sigs, S&W, Ruger, or whatever.
Kind of a silly question. The odds of this happening are astronomically low. Buy a Glock, shoot it, casually inspect the breech face for cracks every time you clean it, and don't worry about it.
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  #85  
Old 01-24-2013, 2:07 PM
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Happened to one of the shooters at Norco Running Gun. He estimated 30,000 dry fire cycles. There is nothing to absorb the energy (although very small) except the breech face. When firing a live round, the energy is absorbed by deforming the primer cup.
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  #86  
Old 01-24-2013, 2:39 PM
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S... Happens fix/replace and drive on. Continue to dry fire with or without snap caps. You will never see this happen again, law of averages just pulled your number, won't pull it again with this problem.
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  #87  
Old 01-24-2013, 3:00 PM
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Originally Posted by tuna quesadilla View Post
Not particularly, but if you would actually READ and COMPREHEND what I wrote, you'd see why I posted the Yeager quote. He is one of many who actually use their firearms, and he too believes wholeheartedly in modern striker-fired designs.

But don't let intelligent discussion get in the way of your attempt at trolling and thread derailing.
You need to work on controlling your emotions. It is quite sad when people get upset at what others post about them on a forum.

How is any of this an "intelligent discussion"? Most of this thread is a bunch of glock fanboys getting pissy over what the OP posted about his experience with his glock.
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  #88  
Old 01-24-2013, 3:58 PM
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And now we know why Glocks only have a 4 year service life. I think it might be time to go check mine for cracks. It was a used rental gun when I got it 8 years ago.
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  #89  
Old 01-24-2013, 4:28 PM
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I know a full time firearms instructor reasonably well. He's had a long career and seen many rounds go downrange. He has plenty of stories of one in a million type things that he has overserved personally. I have no reason to doubt such has happened here.
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  #90  
Old 01-24-2013, 5:11 PM
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Sorry to be off topic, but why is your grammar almost perfect on all your posts, but the note you wrote looked like it was written by a 2nd grader?
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  #91  
Old 01-24-2013, 5:37 PM
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Maybe it's just me, but I would rather find out my slide was improperly heat treated while dry-firing it on the couch rather than experiencing a catastrophic failure at the range. Keep dry firing!
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  #92  
Old 01-24-2013, 5:42 PM
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I'm not sure why people have such a hard time wrapping their heads around the possibility of the firing pin eventually cracking the breech face. The firing pin in a Glock is pretty large and heavy. The breech face is thin. The firing pin is thicker and is made of harder, stronger metal.

Everyone saying "the striker spring is 5.5 lbs" doesn't understand how springs work. That is probably 5.5 lbs per inch of spring compression. Meaning 0 lbs for a relaxed spring, 5.5 lbs of force to compress one inch, 11 lbs of force to compress two inches, and so on. I don't actually know how compressed a Glock striker spring is when the trigger actually releases. I know it's compressed a bit already just when you assemble the striker assembly. It's compressed more when the slide is racked and it is mostly cocked. I know it's compressed even more as you pull the trigger right up to the point when it's released. Whether that's 5.5 lbs of force at that moment or more or less -- no idea. YOU DON'T KNOW EITHER. So stop spitting numbers like you know what they mean.

PLUS, you don't know what 5.5 lbs of force on a thick, tool steel striker smacking into a thinner, bar stock breech face can do. You're making wild assumptions based on gut feelings.

The FACT of the matter is that many gun manufacturers since single action revolver days have specifically, repeatedly stated in owner's manuals to never dry fire the gun because it can cause damage. I know Glock is not one of those manufacturers. Many other pistol (that is, semi-auto handguns) models DO warn against it though. Claiming it's impossible for a firing pin to damage a breech face is rejecting 150 years of manufacturers telling us otherwise.

OP said he pulled the trigger and it made a crack noise. The firing pin DID blow out the breech face. Now, whether it was solely responsible for weakening it over time, or if OP was sling-shotting the slide from full-back position and/or dropping it from slide lock w/ an empty chamber a whole lot, we don't know. Even if he was, we don't know if that contributed or if it didn't. Doesn't change the fact that the firing pin cracked the breech face out when he pulled the trigger.

I fully believe that something bad happened during the heat treat of this slide, and it was too brittle. This also does not change the fact that the firing pin did crack the breech face out.


So... stop saying it can't happen. It very obviously just did. It's not a "Glock problem" any more than the AR in my safe is responsible for the last school shooting. A couple things probably had to happen just right for this to occur, but it's crazy that so many people are posting in here denying that it's even possible, when it clearly just happened.

And, like I said, I have seen multiple instances of very, very similar breech face cracks in Glocks, 1911s, and other guns, plus frame cracks in revolvers, AR's, and semi-auto pistols from people dry firing -- it happens in AR's and pistols if you pull the trigger with the slide off. The hammer is not supposed to slam into the frame. Try to explain to us how it's IMPOSSIBLE for an X-spring-weight hammer spring and a tiny little hammer to crack a forged frame. Well... it freakin' happens so bust out all the physics equations you can pull out of your bum to "prove" otherwise, but in the real world it DOES happen.
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  #93  
Old 01-24-2013, 7:59 PM
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The firing pin is less than an ounce and travels less than 1/4". When compared to the recoil spring (14~16lbs typically) propelling a 13oz 1911/Glock17 slide over 2" distance slamming/peening into the hammer forged hood of the barrel.

Do you not think the possibility of the barrel hood peening/cracking the hardened (brittle) breech face of the slide is much higher than the less-than-an-ounce firing pin over a 5lb spring? Looking at the breech face crack from OP, how does one explain the semi-circular shape of the crack from a flat/blade shaped firing pin shoulder? But it sure is similar in size and shape of the barrel hood/chamber.

Also, your description of the hammer hitting/cracking the frame w/o the slide/BCG is not comparable to cracking the breech face. Breech face has to endure the high pressure of live rounds (30~50k psi typically). The fact that the breech face cracks and separates outward doesn't necessarily mean the damage was done purely from out ward pressure.

I dry fire all my center fire guns. I'm sure some well over 100k dry-firings. When I dry fire, I don't fully cycle the slide to cock. I don't use snap caps either. Never a crack in any of my autos or revolvers.
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  #94  
Old 01-24-2013, 8:02 PM
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I dry fire my Glock all the time and never had any problem so far.
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  #95  
Old 01-24-2013, 8:23 PM
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It's not Glock hatred for me. I used to a big Glock Fanboy up until a few years ago when I started seeing more than common number of catastrophic failures and defects (if not annoyances). I still love its overall design simplicity and effectiveness. It's ingenious still!

For me, it's once bitten twice shy. I've shot several 100k rounds thru many different brand of guns in competitions and otherwise and a Glock was the only one broke on me right out of the box.

It's not that all Glocks are bad. It's the frequency of end user complaints that confirmed my personal experience. Malfunctions from limp wristing, Glock bulge, brass in face, blowing up and now cracked breech faces are 'seemingly' too common of occurrence for Glock compared to other brands. Maybe it's just a misconception... but again, it confirms my personal experience.

I'd accept 'Glock Perfection' if these 'issues' are as uncommon as other brands. But I'll tell ya, the newer Sig P226 is not too far behind from what I've seen.
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  #96  
Old 01-24-2013, 8:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InGrAM View Post
You need to work on controlling your emotions. It is quite sad when people get upset at what others post about them on a forum.

How is any of this an "intelligent discussion"? Most of this thread is a bunch of glock fanboys getting pissy over what the OP posted about his experience with his glock.
So you have nothing useful to contribute other than standing on the sidelines and taking snipes where you think your trollish posts might incite a rise out of somebody.

Last edited by tuna quesadilla; 01-24-2013 at 8:49 PM..
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  #97  
Old 01-24-2013, 9:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huckberry668 View Post
Do you not think the possibility of the barrel hood peening/cracking the hardened (brittle) breech face of the slide is much higher than the less-than-an-ounce firing pin over a 5lb spring? Looking at the breech face crack from OP, how does one explain the semi-circular shape of the crack from a flat/blade shaped firing pin shoulder? But it sure is similar in size and shape of the barrel hood/chamber.
huck, I agree with basically everything you said. Like I said, it's totally possible that dropping the slide caused the breech face to weaken, and then the firing pin strike was just the thing that pushed it over the edge and actually caused it to finally crack and separate. I think it may have eventually happened without ever firing the gun, just by dropping the slide over and over. I also think it's possible that it could have happened the total opposite way -- dry firing over and over without ever dropping the slide. My point is that it's all blind conjecture from all of us, and it's ridiculous for anyone to state that they know what caused this.

You don't know how the breech face would have cracked if it WAS only caused by the firing pin. When the gun is in battery, the part of the breech face that is unsupported matches the shape of the chamber. Is it possible that repeated hits from the firing pin could cause the breech face to crack along the lines of the chamber? Yes, absolutely. If you expect a Looney Tunes style exact cutout shape of the firing pin just blowing clean through the breech face... well... I'm sure that's possible too but I don't see any reason to assume that's the result you would get. It's pretty clear that the breech face was pushed into the chamber and broke along the lines of the chamber. However, it's nothing more than a guess as to whether it was the firing pin hitting the breech face from behind that pushed it into the chamber like that, or if it was the slide slamming home that did it. The real question might be whether the breech face has more inertia from slide release than the firing pin does when it's released. You're assuming, based on weight of the entire slide and the recoil spring weight, that the force on the breech face is higher from dropping the slide than the force of the firing pin hit. That's a leap. The recoil spring must be stiffer precisely because the slide is heavier. That slide might move significantly slower than the firing pin. For all we know, the firing pin actually has more kinetic energy upon release than the slide does.

Plus, the slide and the barrel lock together before they stop moving forwards. The breech face doesn't really slam into the the barrel hood. The barrel hood slides up against the breech face, then they travel forwards locked together until they come to a hard stop thanks to the slide lock. Maybe it's the unsupported part of the breech face's inertia trying to continue forwards into the empty chamber that you think caused this? Do you think that part of the breech face has more inertia/kinetic energy than the firing pin? I still think the firing pin is doing more actual striking and hard impact than you get from the round firing or the slide coming to a stop, simply because the breech face is already in contact with the barrel hood and is already in contact with the firing round... both minimizing actual impact and resultant peening/cracking.

Everyone here is full of s**t. Me too. What's the big deal?
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Last edited by JeremyS; 01-24-2013 at 9:23 PM..
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  #98  
Old 01-24-2013, 9:54 PM
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No, it's not a big deal. We speculate base on info provided. Which was why I asked the OP if he fully cycled/drop the slide to dry fire.
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  #99  
Old 01-24-2013, 9:58 PM
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Yeah, no answer to that one. Also curious. Not sure if we'll get a confession . I know that's a common way to cause injury to a 1911. Haven't actually heard somebody blame that on damage to a Glock before. Have heard of dry firing breaking the breech face. But, sure, maybe that's because people rack the slide each time.
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  #100  
Old 01-25-2013, 5:28 AM
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Ouch, some of the comments about my handwriting. None of you happened to teach first grade in TN didja? Sounds a bit...familiar...

Back to topic:

Quote:
Now, whether it was solely responsible for weakening it over time, or if OP was sling-shotting the slide from full-back position and/or dropping it from slide lock w/ an empty chamber a whole lot, we don't know.
I try to avoid this practice, but there have been a few cringe moments in its history where I have thought I had reloaded, but didn't actually seat the mag. Far fewer instances than dry fires. I'm sorry I can't be any more precise than this, it's just not something I ever figured I would be trying to account for on a failure report.

I had never previously heard of this problem, and I'd never heard anything but "You're good to go!" on the issue from either the internet (As ever, a reliable source of 100% true information and empirical data) or shooters in RL.

Quote:
Maybe it's just me, but I would rather find out my slide was improperly heat treated while dry-firing it on the couch rather than experiencing a catastrophic failure at the range. Keep dry firing!
There is some of this in there, but I think when the dust settles there will be a snap cap in there from then on!

Quote:
Interesting failure. I am going to inspect my GLOCKs and see if any of them have any cracking.
I intended this thread as a sort of PSA/"Oh what the crap, the heck do I do with this now?" deal. So I suppose I can say mission accomplished?

Last edited by Crosseyed; 01-25-2013 at 5:31 AM..
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  #101  
Old 01-25-2013, 4:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuna quesadilla View Post
So you have nothing useful to contribute other than standing on the sidelines and taking snipes where you think your trollish posts might incite a rise out of somebody.
Lol. Considering you haven't contributed anything to the "discussion" other than a James Yeager quote, you might want to think before you post responses like above ^. But it's okay, keep letting your emotions control you. It is very impressive...
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  #102  
Old 01-25-2013, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by huckberry668 View Post
It's not Glock hatred for me. I used to a big Glock Fanboy up until a few years ago when I started seeing more than common number of catastrophic failures and defects (if not annoyances). I still love its overall design simplicity and effectiveness. It's ingenious still!

For me, it's once bitten twice shy. I've shot several 100k rounds thru many different brand of guns in competitions and otherwise and a Glock was the only one broke on me right out of the box.

It's not that all Glocks are bad. It's the frequency of end user complaints that confirmed my personal experience. Malfunctions from limp wristing, Glock bulge, brass in face, blowing up and now cracked breech faces are 'seemingly' too common of occurrence for Glock compared to other brands. Maybe it's just a misconception... but again, it confirms my personal experience.

I'd accept 'Glock Perfection' if these 'issues' are as uncommon as other brands. But I'll tell ya, the newer Sig P226 is not too far behind from what I've seen.
a glock broke out of the box but other guns havent?

this is so biased it makes my head hurt
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  #103  
Old 01-25-2013, 10:34 PM
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That is strange. Out of curiousity, which model and what generation?
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