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  #1  
Old 01-23-2013, 1:02 AM
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Default PPT of handgun requires magazine?

Just wondering if this is a store policy or law. I was unable to find any code that says a PPT of handgun requires a magazine but was told that one was required to do the PPT at Turners in Norwalk. Service was great, PPT was as fast as it could have gone and no complaints. Just curious.
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  #2  
Old 01-23-2013, 1:07 AM
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I'm not sure why unless they don't have the same gun sitting on the shelf. The only reason I could think of is for the safe handling demo.

Jerry
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  #3  
Old 01-23-2013, 1:25 AM
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It is needed to do the safe handling demonstration.

If they have a magazine on hand that fits they can use that if they are willing.
Also they can use the exact same make and model handgun to do the test.

That does not mean for example if you are DROSing a Rock Island 1911 and they have a differnt 1911 on hand that you can do it with that one. It has to be the same make and model.

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pd...rms/hscaff.pdf
Quote:
CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
BUREAU OF FIREARMS
Safe Handling Demonstration
Affidavit
STATE OF CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
BOF 039 (Rev. 01/2012) PAGE 1 of 1
Declaration
On ,

performed the safe handling demonstration as required in California Penal Code sections 26850,
subdivisions (a) and (b), and 26853, and 26856, and 26859, with the handgun (or one of the
same make and model)
referenced on Dealer Record of Sale (DROS) No.
under the supervision of .
Date (mm/dd/yyyy) Printed Name of Handgun Purchaser/Recipient
DROS Number
Printed Name of Certified Instructor Certified Instructor Number

Quote:
California Penal Code Section 26850

(a) Except as authorized by the department, no firearms
dealer may deliver a handgun unless the recipient performs a safe
handling demonstration with that handgun.

(b) The safe handling demonstration shall commence with the
handgun unloaded and locked with the firearm safety device with which
it is required to be delivered, if applicable. While maintaining
muzzle awareness, that is, the firearm is pointed in a safe
direction, preferably down at the ground, and trigger discipline,
that is, the trigger finger is outside of the trigger guard and along
side of the handgun frame, at all times, the handgun recipient shall
correctly and safely perform the following:
(1) If the handgun is a semiautomatic pistol, the steps listed in
Section 26853.

(2) If the handgun is a double-action revolver, the steps listed
in Section 26856.
(3) If the handgun is a single-action revolver, the steps listed
in Section 26859.
(c) The recipient shall receive instruction regarding how to
render that handgun safe in the event of a jam.
(d) The firearms dealer shall sign and date an affidavit stating
that the requirements of subdivisions (a) and (b) have been met. The
firearms dealer shall additionally obtain the signature of the
handgun purchaser on the same affidavit. The firearms dealer shall
retain the original affidavit as proof of compliance with this
requirement.
(e) The recipient shall perform the safe handling demonstration
for a department-certified instructor.
(f) No demonstration shall be required if the dealer is returning
the handgun to the owner of the handgun.
(g) Department-certified instructors who may administer the safe
handling demonstration shall meet the requirements set forth in
subdivision (b) of Section 31635.
(h) The persons who are exempt from the requirements of
subdivision (a) of Section 31615, pursuant to Section 31700, are also
exempt from performing the safe handling demonstration.

Quote:
California Penal Code Section 26853

To comply with Section 26850, a safe handling demonstration
for a semiautomatic pistol shall include all of the following steps:
(a) Remove the magazine.
(b) Lock the slide back. If the model of firearm does not allow
the slide to be locked back, pull the slide back, visually and
physically check the chamber to ensure that it is clear.
(c) Visually and physically inspect the chamber, to ensure that
the handgun is unloaded.
(d) Remove the firearm safety device, if applicable. If the
firearm safety device prevents any of the previous steps, remove the
firearm safety device during the appropriate step.
(e) Load one bright orange, red, or other readily identifiable
dummy round into the magazine. If no readily identifiable dummy round
is available, an empty cartridge casing with an empty primer pocket
may be used.
(f) Insert the magazine into the magazine well of the firearm.
(g) Manipulate the slide release or pull back and release the
slide.
(h) Remove the magazine.
(i) Visually inspect the chamber to reveal that a round can be
chambered with the magazine removed.
(j) Lock the slide back to eject the bright orange, red, or other
readily identifiable dummy round. If the handgun is of a model that
does not allow the slide to be locked back, pull the slide back and
physically check the chamber to ensure that the chamber is clear. If
no readily identifiable dummy round is available, an empty cartridge
casing with an empty primer pocket may be used.
(k) Apply the safety, if applicable.
(l) Apply the firearm safety device, if applicable. This
requirement shall not apply to an Olympic competition pistol if no
firearm safety device, other than a cable lock that the department
has determined would damage the barrel of the pistol, has been
approved for the pistol, and the pistol is either listed in
subdivision (b) of Section 32105 or is subject to subdivision (c) of
Section 32105.
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Last edited by Chaos47; 01-23-2013 at 1:30 AM..
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  #4  
Old 01-23-2013, 2:37 AM
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I haven't bought a handgun for awhile, I'm picking up a glock 19 next week whats ''safe handling demonstration''

EDIT never mind just read the post above
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  #5  
Old 01-23-2013, 2:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicoman View Post
I haven't bought a handgun for awhile, I'm picking up a glock 19 next week whats ''safe handling demonstration''
They'll walk you through it, but basicly you show them the "correct" way to load and clear a HG as well as secure with the state approved lock.
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  #6  
Old 01-23-2013, 9:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darksands View Post
Just wondering if this is a store policy or law. I was unable to find any code that says a PPT of handgun requires a magazine but was told that one was required to do the PPT at Turners in Norwalk. Service was great, PPT was as fast as it could have gone and no complaints. Just curious.
I believe it is just store policy/procedure and can vary between FFL's. I recently made a PPT and have held a CCW for a long while. As you may know having a CCW exempts you from the SHD.

When doing a PPT I will usually bring the mags home and leave the firearm only for the jail period. The salesperson helping with the PPT told me he would be unable to do the transfer unless I left a mag even though I was exempt from the SHD.

Rather than argue the point I left a mag.
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  #7  
Old 01-23-2013, 9:57 AM
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must be policy because all the shops ive done a PPT at usually skip the handgun safety demo as long as the buyer has his HSC card in hand (you would have demonstrated to safely handle a firearm to get it in the first place) and ive transfered bare bone handgun frames
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  #8  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:46 AM
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They are not following the law and being lazy.
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  #9  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:57 AM
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a ccw exempts you from the safe handling demo
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  #10  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyBrows View Post
must be policy because all the shops ive done a PPT at usually skip the handgun safety demo as long as the buyer has his HSC card in hand (you would have demonstrated to safely handle a firearm to get it in the first place) and ive transfered bare bone handgun frames
Negative, the HSC does not exempt you from the demo.
There is no hands on "practical" to get an HSC, only a written test.
The hands on portion is the demo.
Look above at my first post the law is clear.

Quote:
(a) Except as authorized by the department, no firearms
dealer may deliver a handgun unless the recipient performs a safe
handling demonstration with that handgun.
Your FFL is technically breaking the law (if you are not exempt from the HSC, see below).
They should not be "transfered bare bone handgun frames" unless they have the same make and model on hand to do the demo.

A bare frame can not do many of the required steps outlined in CA PC 26853.

They are either not filling out the Safe Handling Demonstration
Affidavit or are filling it out illegally.
http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pd...rms/hscaff.pdf
Quote:
I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of California that the forgoing is true and correct.
Now if you are exempt from the HSC you are exempt from the demo
http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/hscfaqs#a21
Quote:
The exemptions to the safe handling demonstration include all the exemptions from the Handgun Safety Certificate requirement.
http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/hscfaqs#c6

Quote:
http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/hscfaqs#c6
X01 = Special Weapons Permit Holder
X02 = Operation of Law Representative
X03 = Handgun being returned to the owner
X13 = FFL collector with COE (curio and relic handguns only)
X21 = Military - Active Duty
X22 = Military - Reserve
X25 = Military - Honorably Retired
X31 = Peace Officer - California - Active
X32 = Peace Officer - Federal - Active
X33 = Peace Officer - California - Honorably Retired
X34 = Peace Officer - California - Reserve
X35 = Peace Officer - Federal - Honorably Retired
X41 = Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) Permit Holder
X81 = P.O.S.T. 832 PC (Firearms) Training
X91 = Particular and Limited Authority Peace Officers
X95 = Law Enforcement Service Gun to Family Member
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Last edited by Chaos47; 01-23-2013 at 11:52 AM..
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  #11  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:48 AM
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Recently I PPT a handgun at RifleGear and was not told I needed to leave one of the mags with it. We did the paperwork and that was it. We never took the magazines in, I just put them in my car and we walked in. I'm guessing I should bring one with me when I go back to pick it up just incase.
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  #12  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut232 View Post
Recently I PPT a handgun at RifleGear and was not told I needed to leave one of the mags with it. We did the paperwork and that was it. We never took the magazines in, I just put them in my car and we walked in. I'm guessing I should bring one with me when I go back to pick it up just incase.
Yes, bring one when you come to pick up. Pickup is when the demo is done.
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  #13  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyBrows View Post
must be policy because all the shops ive done a PPT at usually skip the handgun safety demo as long as the buyer has his HSC card in hand (you would have demonstrated to safely handle a firearm to get it in the first place) and ive transfered bare bone handgun frames
The HSC is all theory. There is no actual demostration that you can handle a firearm. Also as mentioned, the safety demo has to be some with the exact make, model and caliber you are buying. So unless exempt, you have to demo on all purchases.
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Old 01-23-2013, 4:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos47 View Post
Yes, bring one when you come to pick up. Pickup is when the demo is done.
I did the demo when I started DROS.
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  #15  
Old 01-23-2013, 4:32 PM
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I PPT'd a Sig P239 and kept the magazines with me and a 1911 and also kept the magazines with me. I did the demo using the slide stop as they didn't have dummy rounds to use anyway. This was at a pawn shop though and not a Gun shop.
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