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  #1  
Old 01-19-2013, 1:33 PM
ap3572001 ap3572001 is offline
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Default After You retire?

Assuming all the current laws remain the same, what changes after You (I ) retire?

Off roster pistols? Magazines? AW's ? ETC.

Thank You.
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  #2  
Old 01-19-2013, 2:49 PM
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Default

Im about two years out. My understanding is we get to keep what we have, but will no longer qualify to buy off roster firearms or hi-caps. The exemption applies only to full time LE status. However, if your are a retired LE, maintain reserve status, AND with a letter from your agency, you might still qualify to buy. I have not checked into this route yet though.
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Old 01-19-2013, 3:00 PM
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Default

The only one of the "issues" that seems to be of any contention is AW's. There are several threads about it I have seen, some agencies say it belongs to them, or you have to sell it to them or out of state or convert it over to legal status. Some agencies don't seem to care one way or the other.
Mags and off roster handguns are your's, I have never seen anything requiring getting rid of them at retirement.
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Old 01-19-2013, 3:19 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3572001 View Post
Assuming all the current laws remain the same, what changes after You (I ) retire?

Off roster pistols? Magazines? AW's ? ETC.

Thank You.
Both of the above posters are pretty much on point.

You're on solid ground keeping the large-capacity magazines that you lawfully acquired. There is no law against simple possession. You may no longer purchase, manufacture, or import large-capacity magazines.

You no longer can purchase, through an FFL, off-roster handguns. You also no longer qualify for an exemption on the 10-day waiting period.

If you opt to carry concealed, you need to comply with the recurrent certification requirements for your state privilege, and with the federal requirements for the LEOSA privilege. They're not the same.

There's probably a legal battle brewing over the status of "assault" weapons purchased and registered with department authorization. The Attorney General has issued an opinion that such weapons may not be lawfully possessed after retirement, however the reasoning of that opinion is highly questionable. If you're in such a position, I'd consult with a qualified lawyer.
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  #5  
Old 01-19-2013, 6:08 PM
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Default Don't move to Hawaii

Well just don't move to Hawaii they won't let you qualify with their PD and no matter what they may say they don't honor LEOSA. Essentially you have to go through all the steps to to get a Hawaii CCW.

Naturally that's where my wife and daughter want to live.
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  #6  
Old 01-20-2013, 4:01 AM
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Originally Posted by psango View Post
Well just don't move to Hawaii they won't let you qualify with their PD and no matter what they may say they don't honor LEOSA. Essentially you have to go through all the steps to to get a Hawaii CCW.

Naturally that's where my wife and daughter want to live.
They don't have to qualify you, but they don't have any choice about LEOSA. they are opening themselves up to a huge lawsuit, then you could afford to live in Hawaii.
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  #7  
Old 01-20-2013, 4:05 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
If you opt to carry concealed, you need to comply with the recurrent certification requirements for your state privilege, and with the federal requirements for the LEOSA privilege. They're not the same.

There's probably a legal battle brewing over the status of "assault" weapons purchased and registered with department authorization. The Attorney General has issued an opinion that such weapons may not be lawfully possessed after retirement, however the reasoning of that opinion is highly questionable. If you're in such a position, I'd consult with a qualified lawyer.
What are the CA state requirements for retirees that are different, if any? Heck, even for active LE, the state didn't require much more than annual, no? We did quarterly and then semi-annual, then back to quarterly, so I know it's not that stringent, even for active. Last I heard from my buddy, he said retirees come back once a year to do their quals which is about 10 shots or something stupid... but then that's just hearsay from him.

In any event, LEOSA only requires annual quals and if you are good with LEOSA, and you have the creds, it overrides state requirements and limitations, no? I would think since LEOSA overrides state law, it would also override the state you are in, not just out of state, because it does not say LEOSA applies to all states except the one you are native to.

Finally, for AW's, screw Moonbeam Brown and his parting shot opinion that holds no legal weight other than liberal spit waddle. There is no provision for taking the weapon back and unregistering it and you cannot deprive someone's duly paid for and legally owned property without due process. There is no legal provision or procedure for taking any officer registered AW back under the law.
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  #8  
Old 01-20-2013, 4:36 AM
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Default Here what I've gotten form Hawaii AJ website

Unless you return to your home state to qualify each year, it looks to me like they require the retired LEO to meet the following requirements which seems to include a medical and eye exam, and complete their certification test conducted by a private security firm.

I have included a link to the AJ office webpage. http://hawaii.gov/ag/criminal_justice/LEO/
There are 6 links to forms and procedures at the bottom of the page. If I'm reading it correctly they state that US Code does not supersede Hawaii State Law. I followed the links and it looks more complicated than anything we have here.


Qualified Retired Law Enforcement Officers (QRLEO) that meet the requirements of 18 USC §926C and Hawaii State laws are permitted to carry a concealed firearm in the State of Hawaii. The QRLEO in addition to meeting the requirements of 18 USC §926C must also comply with the requirements of Hawaii State Firearm Laws (Hawaii Revised Statues §§134-1 – 134-35). A Guideline for Qualified Retired Law Enforcement Officers has been prepared for your review. The Guideline is not a “legal opinion” and you should consult a licensed attorney for legal advice and interpretation of Hawaii Firearms Laws and the Law Enforcement Safety Act of 2004. See Guideline For Carrying A Concealed Firearm In The State of Hawaii by a “Qualified Retired Law Enforcement Officer” Pursuant to 18 United States Code §926C.

NEW VENDOR SELECTED TO PROVIDE FIREARM CERTIFICATION BEGINING JULY 1, 2010.

The State of Hawaii has implemented a “Firearm Certification Program” for Qualified retired law enforcement officers that obtained a photographic identification from the law enforcement agency they retired from but did not receive a firearm certification from that agency. The Guidelines for Qualified Retired Law Enforcement Officers includes instructions on How to apply for a State of Hawaii Firearm Certification. All costs related to firearm certification are to be paid for by the QRLEO.

The State of Hawaii awarded the firearm certification portion of the program to Star Protection Agency (SPA). The cost of the firearm certification portion provided by SPA will be $104.71 (tax included). You will not be able to enroll in the firearm certification portion of the program offered by SPA until you have received a letter from the Criminal Justice Division, Department of the Attorney General, indicating that you have met all LEOSA requirements and are cleared to take the firearm certification.

All LEOSA forms have been updated. Please make sure that forms you submit are current forms dated 7/1/2010. Only updated forms will be accepted.

LEOSA FORMS AND DOCUMENTS:

Guidelines for Carrying a Concealed Firearm in the State of Hawaii By a “Qualified Retired Law Enforcement Officer” Pursuant to 18 United States Code § 926C

Guidelines for Carrying a Concealed Firearm in the State of Hawaii by a "Qualified Law Enforcement Officer" pursuant to 18 USC §926B

State of Hawaii Firearm Certification Instructions

LEOSA Firearm Policy

Application for Hawaii State Firearm Certification to Carry a Concealed Firearm Pursuant to 18 United States Code § 926C

LEOSA Certification of Medical Examination

http://hawaii.gov/ag/criminal_justice/LEO/
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Last edited by psango; 01-20-2013 at 4:43 AM..
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  #9  
Old 01-20-2013, 5:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Notorious View Post
What are the CA state requirements for retirees that are different, if any? Heck, even for active LE, the state didn't require much more than annual, no? We did quarterly and then semi-annual, then back to quarterly, so I know it's not that stringent, even for active. Last I heard from my buddy, he said retirees come back once a year to do their quals which is about 10 shots or something stupid... but then that's just hearsay from him.

In any event, LEOSA only requires annual quals and if you are good with LEOSA, and you have the creds, it overrides state requirements and limitations, no? I would think since LEOSA overrides state law, it would also override the state you are in, not just out of state, because it does not say LEOSA applies to all states except the one you are native to.

Finally, for AW's, screw Moonbeam Brown and his parting shot opinion that holds no legal weight other than liberal spit waddle. There is no provision for taking the weapon back and unregistering it and you cannot deprive someone's duly paid for and legally owned property without due process. There is no legal provision or procedure for taking any officer registered AW back under the law.
Notorious,

Here's the main differences between the state and LEOSA provisions: 1) The state requires you to renew your credentials every five years. They're good indefinitely under LEOSA. 2) The state can deny renewal for cause. LEOSA only disqualifies you if you did not retire in good standing. 3) The state does not require any qualification (except for retired parole officers (go figure)), LEOSA requires annual qualification.

Actually, I think that LEOSA trumps all state law provisions, including those of your home state.

I think you're right on point with your assessment of the AG's opinion on personally owned assault weapons. That opinion was very poorly written and is not reflective of the quality opinions the office normally puts out.

I'm following the Hawaii issue closely. It looks like they're trying to use state law authority to restrict LEOSA, but then the state law provisions they're using to do that are trumped by LEOSA. That should make for interesting case law once someone volunteers to be the test case.
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  #10  
Old 01-20-2013, 5:03 AM
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Default who want's to be the test case.

Yes, but who wants to be the test case


Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Notorious,

Here's the main differences between the state and LEOSA provisions: 1) The state requires you to renew your credentials every five years. They're good indefinitely under LEOSA. 2) The state can deny renewal for cause. LEOSA only disqualifies you if you did not retire in good standing. 3) The state does not require any qualification (except for retired parole officers (go figure)), LEOSA requires annual qualification.

Actually, I think that LEOSA trumps all state law provisions, including those of your home state.

I think you're right on point with your assessment of the AG's opinion on personally owned assault weapons. That opinion was very poorly written and is not reflective of the quality opinions the office normally puts out.

I'm following the Hawaii issue closely. It looks like they're trying to use state law authority to restrict LEOSA, but then the state law provisions they're using to do that are trumped by LEOSA. That should make for interesting case law once someone volunteers to be the test case.
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  #11  
Old 01-20-2013, 9:59 AM
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Hawaii can required whatever they want from THEIR retirees, but as a California retiree complying with LEOSA and California law, they can not put any additional restrictions on me traveling to Hawaii. That is the whole point behind LEOSA.

And the AG opinion on personal AWs is just that, an opinion. It is not law, and an agency can not require that you surrender YOUR property to them when you retire. The only control they have is if they issue a letter or not.
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  #12  
Old 01-20-2013, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
1) The state requires you to renew your credentials every five years. They're good indefinitely under LEOSA.

2) The state can deny renewal for cause. LEOSA only disqualifies you if you did not retire in good standing.

3) The state does not require any qualification (except for retired parole officers (go figure)), LEOSA requires annual qualification.

Actually, I think that LEOSA trumps all state law provisions, including those of your home state.
Thanks for the info.

But as LEOSA provisions all hinge on the fact that the state has to give you the creds first, it's sort of like the chicken and the egg conundrum. If you don't get the creds in the first place, LEOSA doesn't do jack. Until LEOSA sets up some type of mandatory state issue and centralizes an issuing agency after vetting out those who qualify and those who don't, the state still has the discretion to "opt you out" of LEOSA by not issuing, even if you do qualify under LEOSA.

LEOSA doesn't even require actual RETIREMENT in good standing, just that you separate after ten aggregate years in good standing. (LEOSAIA)

So in a roundabout way... the way I figure it is if the State issues, then you are in for LEOSA, and even if the state later doesn't renew, you got the ID and you are covered under LEOSA, unless the state actually affirmatively takes it back or puts an expiration date on it. Then again, nobody wants to be the test case here in the good ole people's republic of CA.
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