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  #1  
Old 01-14-2013, 3:11 PM
RuggedJay RuggedJay is offline
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Default 2000+fps 9mm????

What would be the best conbination of powder and bullet to achieve 2000fps for a 9mm?
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  #2  
Old 01-14-2013, 3:14 PM
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Joking right?
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Old 01-14-2013, 3:15 PM
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http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-495975.html

searching ive only seen up to 1400? someone has the quik load software maybe
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Old 01-14-2013, 3:48 PM
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You can't make a 9mm fly that fast without picking pieces out of your teeth.
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Old 01-14-2013, 3:53 PM
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9.0g Power Pistol
.356 Lee 105g SWC
MV = 1976 fps

Oh yeah, 16" barrel required and you should tie the gun to a tree to pull the trigger, peak pressure = 37,773 psi

the COL needs to be 1.169" which means 0.047" seat depth, but this is Fantasyland anyway.

QL does estimate a little low with hot pistol cartridges so you may reach 2000 fps a little sooner and since this is just an estimate, you might also blow up your gun a little sooner too.

Last edited by rsrocket1; 01-14-2013 at 3:56 PM..
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Old 01-14-2013, 3:56 PM
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Someone was able to reach 1800fps in castboolits forum.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?130197
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Old 01-14-2013, 4:30 PM
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No Im NOT joking. This will be for a Carbine with a 16" barrel. I want maximum penetration and energy. Im thinking a lighter bullet pushed really fast.
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Old 01-14-2013, 4:34 PM
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Can you use a solid brass projectile? May not need the speed but the stiffness of projectile should do what ever your trying to accomplish.
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Old 01-14-2013, 4:47 PM
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Why not get one of these: http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firear...re/1894CSS.asp

Pretty easy to get to 2000fps with a 125gr bullet, only a few thousandths larger in diameter than 9mm, its a carbine, just sayin'....
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Old 01-14-2013, 7:02 PM
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Saw some videos on youtube about the Hi Point C9, testing its durability with hot loads, and double charges. I would assume a double charge should be good for 2000 fps but its not something anyone would want to repeat.

9mm wasnt really meant to go that fast, but with a carbine/slow powder/super light bullet you could probably get pretty close.
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Old 01-14-2013, 7:09 PM
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9x25 Dillon
90gr XTP (.355)
12.2gr Longshot
CCI350 Primers
1.260" OAL
Glock 20SF w/6" LWD Longslide

2054fps Average

Other than a carbine, that's the only way you're going to do it while preserving your eyes and fingers.
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Old 01-14-2013, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAB_81 View Post
9x25 Dillon
90gr XTP (.355)
12.2gr Longshot
CCI350 Primers
1.260" OAL
Glock 20SF w/6" LWD Longslide

2054fps Average

Other than a carbine, that's the only way you're going to do it while preserving your eyes and fingers.
I wish I would have said that, but then, I didn't know.

Wow!
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Old 01-14-2013, 7:55 PM
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which of your guns do you want to blow up?
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  #14  
Old 01-14-2013, 7:59 PM
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just get some of this stuff, it should do the trick, out of a 16" barrel, you should be able to pick up an additional 300fps maybe even 400

http://polygunbag.com/9mmGermanAmmoLargerView.html
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuggedJay View Post
No Im NOT joking. This will be for a Carbine with a 16" barrel. I want maximum penetration and energy. Im thinking a lighter bullet pushed really fast.
to get the deeper penetration you are looking for and the velocity you are looking for I would go with a 90gn CMJ. If you use a 90gn XTP with that high of velocities I would bet you would have bullet failure with in 10in. It is designed to be used between 800 and 1400 fps

I have contradictory thoughts on powder though.

two powders that I have used to get higher velocities out of a 4" barrel are Power pistol and VV N350.

but with a longer 16'' barrel you could potentially use a much slower powder to achieve higher velocities. Food for thought.
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  #16  
Old 01-15-2013, 1:29 AM
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I would say that you are asking more than you can reliably/safely reproduce out of the given caliber selection. If you are needing more performance, you need to step up to a more powerful caliber.

Just IMO.
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  #17  
Old 01-15-2013, 7:15 AM
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I'd get a .357 Lever Gun & call it a day.
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Old 01-15-2013, 7:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DRAB_81 View Post
I'd get a .357 Lever Gun & call it a day.
^^Safest & most correct answer^^

.
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Old 01-15-2013, 7:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuggedJay View Post
No Im NOT joking. This will be for a Carbine with a 16" barrel. I want maximum penetration and energy. Im thinking a lighter bullet pushed really fast.
You need a very light bullet to reach that speed and that works directly against you if you want penetration. For penetration, you want a heavy bullet. A light fast bullet will be easily deflected or shattered.

Make up a safe, standard load in your carbine and call it a day. You will be much better off and less likely to have the gun blow up in your face.

A follow up shot is much more effective when your gun continues to function and your face is still intact.
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Old 01-15-2013, 8:46 AM
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The hard part is finding that darn Uranium pew 238 space modulator.......
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  #21  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:40 PM
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I was able to hit 1438 fps out of Ruger PC-9.

Bullet: Ranier 115g plated
Powder: Win 231, 5.6 grains
Primer: WSP
Case: Win (new)
OAL: 1.142"

With a lighter bullet, or slower burning powder, 1600 fps should be easily reached.

However, as others have said, light and fast probably won't reach deep.

Last edited by USM0083; 01-20-2013 at 1:41 PM.. Reason: Added powder charge weight
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  #22  
Old 01-15-2013, 11:11 PM
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9mm Win Mag chambered in some sort of carbine might do it, not in a handgun though...
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  #23  
Old 01-16-2013, 4:21 AM
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I wouldn't try this with plated, for sure...
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Old 01-16-2013, 6:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Mod View Post
I would assume a double charge should be good for 2000 fps but its not something anyone would want to repeat.
A double charge will just blow the gun up.
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Old 01-17-2013, 8:05 PM
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And I think that's a "Q" 238 space modulator.

the gent was right about speed vs penetation. You are definitely fighting an uphill battle with this quest, and I suspect a disaster in the making. The light bullet will blow around easily in the wind and lose speed faster than a heavier bullet. So your advantage would not get far or last long. And the tip about a slower powder would be affected by case capacity - the 9mm is a little cartridge, admit it and work within it's limitations.
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Old 01-17-2013, 8:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuggedJay View Post
No Im NOT joking. This will be for a Carbine with a 16" barrel. I want maximum penetration and energy. Im thinking a lighter bullet pushed really fast.
Trade it in for a .44
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Old 01-17-2013, 8:56 PM
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Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
A double charge will just blow the gun up.
Apparently not if its a hi point, that was the whole point of the double charge test
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Old 01-18-2013, 9:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuggedJay View Post
No Im NOT joking. This will be for a Carbine with a 16" barrel. I want maximum penetration and energy. Im thinking a lighter bullet pushed really fast.
I'm not joking either when i say this:

It's been shown time and time again that max penetration is achieved by a slow, heavy bullet. Even pushing that same bullet faster and faster eventually achieves less penetration as the bullet starts to come apart.

The MV figure will be deceptively low. Real world penetraion will not be.

You want fat and slow from your carbine, not small and fast.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
I'm not joking either when i say this:

It's been shown time and time again that max penetration is achieved by a slow, heavy bullet. Even pushing that same bullet faster and faster eventually achieves less penetration as the bullet starts to come apart.

The MV figure will be deceptively low. Real world penetraion will not be.

You want fat and slow from your carbine, not small and fast.
+1 Couldn't agree more
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
It's been shown time and time again that max penetration is achieved by a slow, heavy bullet.
Bowling ball doing 50 fps.........no penetration, but it hurts.

.223 at 3000 fps, all the way through, it hurts.

Throw us a bone regarding your absolute supposition.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
Bowling ball doing 50 fps.........no penetration, but it hurts.

.223 at 3000 fps, all the way through, it hurts.

Throw us a bone regarding your absolute supposition.
A .223 bullet the mass of a bowling ball traveling 50fps would probably skewer someone.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
Bowling ball doing 50 fps.........no penetration, but it hurts.

.223 at 3000 fps, all the way through, it hurts.

Throw us a bone regarding your absolute supposition.
I'm supposing we are talking about bullets passing through the barrel of a firearm.

Did I need to propose that?
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:52 AM
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Put me in your will please. I lub you.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
I'm supposing we are talking about bullets passing through the barrel of a firearm.

Did I need to propose that?

Not sure what the confusion is .


You said max penetration..............probably you should have included some parameters. Handgun? Stuff bigger than .357?
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
Bowling ball doing 50 fps.........no penetration, but it hurts.

.223 at 3000 fps, all the way through, it hurts.

Throw us a bone regarding your absolute supposition.
Maybe a better comparison is the 135gr vs 200gr in 10mm. The 200gr bullets @ 1100-1200fps will out penetrate a 135gr bullet @ 1700fps ALL DAY. Bullet weight/sectional density have WAY more to do with penetration than velocity does. A lighter bullet is much easier to get moving, but it's also much easier to slow down & stop.
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Old 01-18-2013, 1:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
Not sure what the confusion is .


You said max penetration..............probably you should have included some parameters. Handgun? Stuff bigger than .357?
Pick any cartridge. Assume accuracy is not a part of the issue. Compare apples to apples. Like drab did. Heavy outpenetrates light.
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Old 01-18-2013, 2:41 PM
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I also think that you guys are missing a key point. Who cares if the round can penetrate 3 feet of ballistic gel. If the round does not expand and transfer that energy fast enough, it will just pass through your target and lack "stopping" power.

I would get the heaviest hollow point I can get and add the appropriate powder to keep the rifle within it's safe pressures under sustained fire. Under pressure, I am going to probably miss my first or second shot, but there are a lot more in the mag to follow.
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Old 01-18-2013, 2:57 PM
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I remember a load from GECO "BAT" round back in the early 90's. It was a 3 piece solid copper bullet, 87 or 88 grains and around 1500 FPS.

(from my memory)

Found a pic.



Last edited by email; 01-18-2013 at 3:00 PM..
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  #39  
Old 01-18-2013, 6:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuggedJay View Post
No Im NOT joking. This will be for a Carbine with a 16" barrel. I want maximum penetration and energy. Im thinking a lighter bullet pushed really fast.
Then get a .308, you know, a real rifle.
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Old 01-18-2013, 7:17 PM
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Then get a .308, you know, a real rifle.
Agreed. But for some reason it still wouldnt be as sweet as a .357 levergun
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