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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #41  
Old 01-20-2013, 3:28 PM
shafferds shafferds is offline
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Fyi there are 32 grams in one ounce of troy silver. So dont buy grams at really anything more than a dollar if possible.
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  #42  
Old 01-20-2013, 4:31 PM
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Fergus the one-eyed Pug says, "Don't pay over spot for 90% coins!"
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  #43  
Old 01-20-2013, 5:09 PM
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Excellent advice Fergus. Thank you.
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  #44  
Old 01-20-2013, 5:48 PM
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One other thing to consider if you want to keep silver on hand for use during SHTF when normal currency is somewhat...devalued.

The 1/10 or 1/4 rounds may serve better for smaller items. For example...say you need toilet paper and the seller is willing to take silver. What's he going to give you change with for a pack of TP if you try to pay in 1oz coins?
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  #45  
Old 01-20-2013, 6:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jt-cali View Post
How recognizable are Philharmonics? The coins will only be of value if people recognize/know that they are pure silver. I've been sticking to maples and ASE. But the premiums are getting too high and considering getting some philharmonics instead.
They're immediately recognizable. They're bullion coins with purity stamped on the coin. Same as Maple Leafs...
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  #46  
Old 01-20-2013, 6:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bigmike82 View Post
One other thing to consider if you want to keep silver on hand for use during SHTF when normal currency is somewhat...devalued.

The 1/10 or 1/4 rounds may serve better for smaller items. For example...say you need toilet paper and the seller is willing to take silver. What's he going to give you change with for a pack of TP if you try to pay in 1oz coins?
My wife and I were discussing this just a few hours ago. I think it might be wise to stock up on different weights so that we wouldn't have to pay $30+ for a roll of toilet paper.
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Old 01-20-2013, 7:08 PM
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They're immediately recognizable. They're bullion coins with purity stamped on the coin. Same as Maple Leafs...
When I say recognizable, I meant more along the lines of well known by most people and trustworthiness. Let's say SHTF happened, no electricity and the internet is down. If someone were to offer you 30 - 1oz silver rounds stamped with .9999 silver, from the Republic of Cucamonga, for your Glock 17, would you take it?

Just going by the silver stamp doesn't seem prudent. Even with ASEs and maples, I would compare them to known coins I have to make sure they are not counterfeit. Actually, I measure the dimensions and weigh my coins when I get them. But in SHTF situations, you might not have access to these information to verify. Hence, my question about Philharmonics being generally recognized as a trusted source or will most people not know where they're from.
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  #48  
Old 01-20-2013, 7:30 PM
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Here's another thought I had. If I had to use silver to barter or trade, wouldn't it be better to have bars in various weights rather than coins? To someone that didn't understand the value of silver, they may think my ASE was only worth the $1 that is printed on it. My concern is that I may have a hard time convincing someone that grew up with low value coinage that the coin I'm presenting is actually worth $30+... Thoughts?

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  #49  
Old 01-20-2013, 7:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jt-cali View Post
When I say recognizable, I meant more along the lines of well known by most people and trustworthiness. Let's say SHTF happened, no electricity and the internet is down. If someone were to offer you 30 - 1oz silver rounds stamped with .9999 silver, from the Republic of Cucamonga, for your Glock 17, would you take it?

Just going by the silver stamp doesn't seem prudent. Even with ASEs and maples, I would compare them to known coins I have to make sure they are not counterfeit. Actually, I measure the dimensions and weigh my coins when I get them. But in SHTF situations, you might not have access to these information to verify. Hence, my question about Philharmonics being generally recognized as a trusted source or will most people not know where they're from.
If a person is too stupid to know what the ".999" on the coin means, then they're not going to not know that a pre-65 quarter is silver either.

...but hey, don't buy them! (More for me)
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  #50  
Old 01-20-2013, 7:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jbohon View Post
Here's another thought I had. If I had to use silver to barter or trade, wouldn't it be better to have bars in various weights rather than coins? To someone that didn't understand the value of silver, they may think my ASE was only worth the $1 that is printed on it. My concern is that I may have a hard time convincing someone that grew up with low value coinage that the coin I'm presenting is actually worth $30+... Thoughts?

That's what 90% silver coins are for, smaller denominations.

Yes, your concern is similar to mine about Philharmonics. The population that knows the value of silver bullion coins is probably not high. At least with ASEs, they are from the USA and most will probably trust it. But for less known coins from other countries, they might not readily accept them. What good will it be in SHTF if others don't recognize it?
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  #51  
Old 01-20-2013, 7:49 PM
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Originally Posted by CEDaytonaRydr View Post
If a person is too stupid to know what the ".999" on the coin means, then they're not going to not know that a pre-65 quarter is silver either.

...but hey, don't buy them! (More for me)
What good are the coins if you can't trade them for food that the stupid people have?

And look at what smart people are doing...
http://www.cointalk.com/t202941/

Last edited by jt-cali; 01-20-2013 at 8:11 PM..
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  #52  
Old 01-20-2013, 7:51 PM
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What good are the coins if you can't trade them for food that the stupid people have?
You're right! You know everything. Point taken. Don't buy any then...
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  #53  
Old 01-20-2013, 8:43 PM
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Omfg, just buy bullets, they will be much more valuable (and useful) in the situations described here! LoL
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  #54  
Old 01-20-2013, 9:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rp55 View Post
Fergus the one-eyed Pug says, "Don't pay over spot for 90% coins!"
Fiona the Original one-eyed Pug, concurs:

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  #55  
Old 01-25-2013, 4:53 AM
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When SHTF, the general population is completely screwed anyways. Debating whether or not they are going to be able to identify 90% silver, 40% silver, certain bullion, etc, is irrelevant. If it comes to the point where you will need to deal with a general population member to get goods you need the harsh reality is that you'll simply probably what you want by force.

Denomination is a very real issue. 1oz silver is a lot better than 100oz bars. Large bars are good for storage, but horrible for trading. Similarly, stacks of $100's in the safe is a poor choice for trading. Remember when McAfee made it back to the States a "friend" delivered him a large stash of $5's? I personally favor 90% coins as they are highly divisible. I also bought a bazillion recent Proof kits and broke them apart to make rolls of 90% coins. Just like crows, people like things that are bright and shiny.

My wife came here from Laos as a refugee. Her parents were "important" people and the entire family was marked for death. She can describe first-hand the impracticality of large currency as the family snuck out of Laos and spent time in the camps in Thailand.
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  #56  
Old 01-25-2013, 9:45 AM
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I've noticed that most vendors sell 90% junk silver coins by face value of the coins.

I don't really want to bust out the scale, so are you getting your money's worth by weight or is there a premium for numismic value?

How do I know if $100 face value dimes/quarters is a good value vs bars?
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  #57  
Old 01-25-2013, 9:51 AM
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Originally Posted by olhunter View Post
I've noticed that most vendors sell 90% junk silver coins by face value of the coins.

I don't really want to bust out the scale, so are you getting your money's worth by weight or is there a premium for numismic value?

How do I know if $100 face value dimes/quarters is a good value vs bars?
This will give you the "Silver Value"...Not sure how numismatic value is calculated.

http://www.coinflation.com/coins/sil...alculator.html

Last edited by AmmoCanMagnets; 01-25-2013 at 9:58 AM..
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  #58  
Old 01-25-2013, 10:25 AM
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Fiona the Original one-eyed Pug, concurs:

Looks like a match made in Heaven! PS props for teaching your dogs to post on Calguns.
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  #59  
Old 01-25-2013, 11:41 AM
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This will give you the "Silver Value"...Not sure how numismatic value is calculated.

http://www.coinflation.com/coins/sil...alculator.html
I use the Red Book as a baseline reference for numismatic value. Published annually, and is generally within 10% of the market driven sales price for collectors. The reference values do not generally apply to those purchasing for melt or scrap value.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Official-2...red+book+coins
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by olhunter View Post
I've noticed that most vendors sell 90% junk silver coins by face value of the coins.

I don't really want to bust out the scale, so are you getting your money's worth by weight or is there a premium for numismic value?

How do I know if $100 face value dimes/quarters is a good value vs bars?
Do you mind telling me where you're finding them at face value? This seems like it would be a great deal.
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  #61  
Old 01-25-2013, 12:08 PM
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Last time I checked Kitco was out or not offering 90% $100 face value bags Last month I jumped into the foray and picked up a couple sacks from them and another couple from a local vendor. Of course the price went down a little right after my purchases! But at least I filled a void in my barter starter. Yes it's not all roses out there and we haven't seen the worst yet. Hi OHOD. PAX
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jbohon View Post
Do you mind telling me where you're finding them at face value? This seems like it would be a great deal.
lol...that would be awesome.

They package them by face value. $100 bag of dimes is 1000 dimes, but they charge based on silver value and whatever else. That bag is about $2400.
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  #63  
Old 01-25-2013, 3:18 PM
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lol...that would be awesome.

They package them by face value. $100 bag of dimes is 1000 dimes, but they charge based on silver value and whatever else. That bag is about $2400.
Got it. Don't I feel dumb. Well, something new learned.
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Old 01-25-2013, 3:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jdben92883 View Post
Denomination is a very real issue. 1oz silver is a lot better than 100oz bars. Large bars are good for storage, but horrible for trading.
They make 10oz bars that are pretty good, though. I have a combination of 1oz coins and 10oz bars, at the moment. Also, keep in mind that if you buy over $1500, you don't have to pay tax.

Quote:
Similarly, stacks of $100's in the safe is a poor choice for trading.
You're also losing money on them with every passing day, due to inflation and the falling value of the dollar.

Part of this is prepping for civil unrest and the other part is securing your future, regardless. If the economy tanks, how are you going to protect your 401k? You have to invest in precious metals to protect your assets. Some of those assets should be held physically, by you. With gun owners, it's easy! Most of us have safes anyway...
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Old 01-25-2013, 4:19 PM
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If there's a run on silver such that vendors are out of stock, why hasn't the price risen much? "Out of stock" wouldn't result in only a ~10% price rise.

Last edited by kb58; 01-25-2013 at 4:21 PM..
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Old 01-25-2013, 4:27 PM
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If there's a run on silver such that vendors are out of stock, why hasn't the price risen much? "Out of stock" wouldn't result in only a ~10% price rise.
Its a bad economic signal, so the government and the media are doing a good job of keeping the story under wraps. They can only do so much, though. When the story becomes big new internationally, speculation will begin and blow the prices sky high. It's the same reason why gold has dipped almost $100 from it's previous high point.
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Old 01-25-2013, 4:38 PM
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Its a bad economic signal, so the government and the media are doing a good job of keeping the story under wraps. They can only do so much, though. When the story becomes big new internationally, speculation will begin and blow the prices sky high. It's the same reason why gold has dipped almost $100 from it's previous high point.
Oh yeah, they are really "keeping it under wraps"...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=U.S.+mint+runs+out+of+silver+news

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Old 01-25-2013, 5:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jdben92883 View Post
When SHTF, the general population is completely screwed anyways. Debating whether or not they are going to be able to identify 90% silver, 40% silver, certain bullion, etc, is irrelevant. If it comes to the point where you will need to deal with a general population member to get goods you need the harsh reality is that you'll simply probably what you want by force.

Denomination is a very real issue. 1oz silver is a lot better than 100oz bars. Large bars are good for storage, but horrible for trading. Similarly, stacks of $100's in the safe is a poor choice for trading. Remember when McAfee made it back to the States a "friend" delivered him a large stash of $5's? I personally favor 90% coins as they are highly divisible. I also bought a bazillion recent Proof kits and broke them apart to make rolls of 90% coins. Just like crows, people like things that are bright and shiny.

My wife came here from Laos as a refugee. Her parents were "important" people and the entire family was marked for death. She can describe first-hand the impracticality of large currency as the family snuck out of Laos and spent time in the camps in Thailand.
Tt's this sort of thing I wonder about as well. Everyone talks about how important it is to have some PMs on-hand. Okay, so you have some, SHTF happens, and eventually people start meeting at some sort of barter-based open market. So one days you want to buy a chicken, how much PM is that? Obviously the weenie answer is: whatever buyer and seller agree to. My point is that if you have a piece of PM of completely unknown and arbitrary worth - it makes NO difference what you paid for it if the seller thinks it's of no value. Remember, communications is down so world worth can't be checked. Do you weigh it? With what? Even if you do, so it's X ounces, and then what? How does the seller know that it's pure? Is it worth face value, or 1000X that because of the dire situation?

I honestly don't know and am wondering how that could pan out. In the case of your Laotian wife, even when things got bad there they could go into town and find out what the exchange rate for whatever currency was in use because there was communications with the outside world (I assume.) But in this wonderful mythical world of SHTF that doesn't exist. So where does that leave the buyer and seller... right back to it being completely arbitrary, which really thows "worth" out the window as far as what was paid for it originally.
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Old 01-25-2013, 5:13 PM
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This same situation happened early last year too. They will be back in production in no time.

Silver was supposed to hit $50 some time ago too. It got close, and then it plummeted back down again.

For newbs reading this thread freaking out thinking they have to go out and pay stupid prices for silver - DON'T. Do some research and be smart. Don't blow your wads panic buying.
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Old 01-25-2013, 5:49 PM
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Just wait silver will pass up gold value in the future... Silver is used as a everyday commodity where gold is not. Silver will be more rare than gold plus most silver is already minned.
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Old 01-25-2013, 5:51 PM
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This same situation happened early last year too. They will be back in production in no time.

Silver was supposed to hit $50 some time ago too. It got close, and then it plummeted back down again.

For newbs reading this thread freaking out thinking they have to go out and pay stupid prices for silver - DON'T. Do some research and be smart. Don't blow your wads panic buying.
Wait...you mean silver is not the new ammunition?

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Old 01-25-2013, 7:19 PM
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QUOTE=keenkeen;10321335]Wait...you mean silver is not the new ammunition?

[/QUOTE]

http://silverbulletbullion.com/
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Old 01-25-2013, 7:43 PM
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^ Those are awesome!
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Old 01-25-2013, 9:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kb58 View Post
Tt's this sort of thing I wonder about as well. Everyone talks about how important it is to have some PMs on-hand. Okay, so you have some, SHTF happens, and eventually people start meeting at some sort of barter-based open market. So one days you want to buy a chicken, how much PM is that? Obviously the weenie answer is: whatever buyer and seller agree to. My point is that if you have a piece of PM of completely unknown and arbitrary worth - it makes NO difference what you paid for it if the seller thinks it's of no value. Remember, communications is down so world worth can't be checked. Do you weigh it? With what? Even if you do, so it's X ounces, and then what? How does the seller know that it's pure? Is it worth face value, or 1000X that because of the dire situation?
My take is right after SHTF, no one will will do much trading with PMs. It will most likely be just trading necessities for necessities. But after things stabilize a bit, more surplus supplies exist, then more trading will happen. Only when more trading happens will the use of real money (PM) happen or become more convenient than bartering..

US 90% silver coins have known silver weight (.723oz per $1 face value). Bullion coins like the American Silver Eagle and Canadian Maple are 1oz. There are lots of other billion coins out there, but will people not familiar with them trust their authenticity, I don't know. How much an item is worth in silver or gold will be determined after SHTF, and how limited the supply is.

I started investing in PM as a hedge against a falling US dollar. Not so much for SHTF, but more for a financial meltdown. But maybe they're one and the same thing. If there's a US financial meltdown, maybe Canada or Mexico won't be affected as much and PMs can be used to trade over there when our paper money is worthless.
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Old 01-25-2013, 9:53 PM
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http://silverbulletbullion.com/

Thats just Bad @$$
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:00 PM
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Very cool! Coming soon .22 1/4 oz, 7.62 2oz, and 12g 5oz!
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:17 PM
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What would you guys recommend for a noob with an extra $200? I don't want to walk into a store and get ripped right away lol.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:29 PM
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What would you guys recommend for a noob with an extra $200? I don't want to walk into a store and get ripped right away lol.
But a few Troy ounces of pure (.999) silver.

You won't get ripped if you call a couple stores and get prices over the phone. Research what the days value of a Troy oz is and try pay as close to that value as possible. You should be able to get 5-6 ounces.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:37 PM
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Oh yeah, they are really "keeping it under wraps"...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=U.S.+mint+runs+out+of+silver+news



Yeah, that's only just now. The fact that the US mint has run out of silver is almost impossible to ignore. Where were the wide-spread reports on the rise in silver prices from just below $5 (in 2003) to nearly $10 (in 2006). It doubled in value in 3 years! Then, from 2006-2008, it more than doubled from just under $10, to more than $23. Now, it's worth nearly 7 times what it was in 2003, and the ONLY story we hear about silver is that the US mint is out of coins...?

Sure man... The media has been all over this!
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:43 PM
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What would you guys recommend for a noob with an extra $200? I don't want to walk into a store and get ripped right away lol.
In addition to checking your local stores suggested above, you might want to check out some coin ads in the NRA magazines. I think I saw one selling for 2.50 above spot with free shipping for 3 eagles. Note that they will call you back later to sell you more :-). I think it might be a better deal than local stores as you will get charged sales tax if you buy less than $1000 locally.
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