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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:16 PM
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Default None of my money will be spent in Glendale.

Im sending a letter to the city of Glendale mayor and company.

Im letting them know how upset I am of the recent vote. Im also telling them that I will no longer spend anymore money in that city.

I making a detailed itemized list of everything I personally spend money in a year in Glendale. At work we have some vendors and studios we buy and rent from in Glendale. I spoke with my bosses about it and they are fine with me finding new suppliers, studios and vendors.

On the personal spending level it's 4 to 5 figures yearly.
On the work level it's mid 6 figures yearly.

I plan on sending the businesses a letter as to why I will no longer be doing business with them.

I should be done in about a week.


Opinions? Comments? Anything i should add or take out?
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  #82  
Old 01-23-2013, 2:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Snake Eyes USA View Post
Im sending a letter to the city of Glendale mayor and company.

Im letting them know how upset I am of the recent vote. Im also telling them that I will no longer spend anymore money in that city.

I making a detailed itemized list of everything I personally spend money in a year in Glendale. At work we have some vendors and studios we buy and rent from in Glendale. I spoke with my bosses about it and they are fine with me finding new suppliers, studios and vendors.

On the personal spending level it's 4 to 5 figures yearly.
On the work level it's mid 6 figures yearly.

I plan on sending the businesses a letter as to why I will no longer be doing business with them.

I should be done in about a week.


Opinions? Comments? Anything i should add or take out?

Now THAT should certainly get their attention !!

Let us know if they respond.

.
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  #83  
Old 01-23-2013, 4:08 PM
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Originally Posted by AndrewMendez View Post
DAMN. How many actually showed up?
Did anyone meet with council members before the meeting and discuss the issue?

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Originally Posted by monk View Post
Didn't really matter since it seems they don't care what the people said.
This is generally the case with public meetings.

With an issue like this, the council members had their minds made up before the meeting began. The only way to prevail in these situations it to lobby the council members behind the scene, see what their concerns are, deal with their concerns, if any, by proposing better legislation.

Fifty or a hundred advocates giving their three minutes each in a public meeting doesn't count for much. I've seen such gatherings lose their votes 5-0.
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  #84  
Old 01-23-2013, 4:41 PM
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I know it sucks, but it counts. Those Council members left that night knowing that the up coming elections where going to be tough. We made a difference because we where there. The row of anti's behind me huddle together because they sat in a room of supporters. The city brought in overtime officer, police chief, fire chief, paramedics, office staff. The public got to speak and locals spoke out as well. We lost the battle, but we cannot and we are not done.
We don't roll over for 1 loss we dig in and fight harder. The majority our speakers spoke with fact and logic and clarity. The anti's spoke with emotion. We countered their minimal speak a clear message that 3 council members decided to disregard. The real message here is Mayor Quintero, Councilwomen Friedman and Councilmen Manoukian feel they know better then their voters.

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Originally Posted by Mitch View Post
Did anyone meet with council members before the meeting and discuss the issue?



This is generally the case with public meetings.

With an issue like this, the council members had their minds made up before the meeting began. The only way to prevail in these situations it to lobby the council members behind the scene, see what their concerns are, deal with their concerns, if any, by proposing better legislation.

Fifty or a hundred advocates giving their three minutes each in a public meeting doesn't count for much. I've seen such gatherings lose their votes 5-0.
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  #85  
Old 01-23-2013, 4:58 PM
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this is unreal....we have counties that have 420 Pot conventions, Pornographic Conventions, BDSM conventions (none of these directly related to Glendale) but Its unreal what taboo crap you can get away with, yet you try and have a gun show and all of a sudden Politicians "don't feel okay taking that blood money". I keep hearing about being tolerant to people's life style, but if you say you want to raise your kid in a target shooting/hunting lifestyle you are some sort of monster.... WHAT THE HECK?
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  #86  
Old 01-23-2013, 5:03 PM
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Exactly: What the Freaking Heck. Lets make sure Mayor Quintero, Councilwomen Friedman and Councilmen Manoukian know how we feel
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  #87  
Old 01-23-2013, 6:05 PM
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So I guess since the Nordyke case ended up being a non-decision after God knows how many years of fighting we're going to have to fight the exact same battle again.
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  #88  
Old 01-23-2013, 6:41 PM
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I've attended Glendale City Council meetings before. Despite what they said, they've pretty much made up their minds ahead of time. That's why I sent letters to all of the members before the meeting.

I did not know Vahe Peroomian, the Glendale Community College trustee was also in favor of the ban, otherwise I would have sent him an email as well. GCC is across the street from the Civic Auditorium and he spoke of the proximity to schools as a reason for the ban.
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  #89  
Old 01-23-2013, 9:34 PM
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Originally Posted by triggatronic View Post
I hated how the guy who started all this mess kept saying "it isn't about banning the show, it's about the show being on city property." Basically it IS about banning the show period point blank.


Sent from my Motorola DynaTAC 8000X
reminds me of how obama and all the liberal media swears that "this legislation ISNT about banning guns..." except that it is.
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  #90  
Old 01-24-2013, 5:41 AM
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Originally Posted by pennys dad View Post
I know it sucks, but it counts. Those Council members left that night knowing that the up coming elections where going to be tough. We made a difference because we where there.
With all due respect, no you did not. The vote went against you and the 60 people who were at the meeting will be completely forgotten within 30 days. It was, quite frankly, a complete waste of time unless it was coordinated with behind the scenes meetings with individual council members. The next elections will be decided by how the candidates propose to address the top five issues confronting Glendale's voters, and it is doubtful the Glendale gun show will make that list.

I used to be pretty involved with local politics here. I can't imagine Glendale is so very different from Costa Mesa. As I said before, I witnessed multiple occasions when the vote went against the indignant throngs who packed the meeting (once I was part of the indignant throng and that night was an epiphany for me, as Tuesday night should have been for you). And I, personally, participated in the political process and got what I wanted by engaging council members in their city offices, at coffee shops, on the phone, wherever they would see me.

Instead of a one-way harangue, in a letter or e-mail or public comments, we had two-way discussions so that I could better understand and address a council member's objections to what I wanted, or suggest a compromise that would make us both happy. On one occasion I shifted a likely 4-1 vote against me to 5-0 in my favor. This victory I accomplished working almost entirely alone, and there was no indignant throng at the final meeting voicing their support for my proposal. I didn't need one. I had sewn up the vote before the meeting started.

I also was proactive in working with the local press to get my point of view in print and widely seen.

I do not understand the reluctance to take on council members one-on-one. They are your neighbors. They are highly accessible. And unlike most grandstanding state and national politicians, they are usually amateurs who will admit they don't know much about many of the subjects they are obliged to vote on, and will typically welcome thoughtful input from knowledgeable constituents.
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  #91  
Old 01-24-2013, 8:39 AM
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With all due respect, no you did not. The vote went against you and the 60 people who were at the meeting will be completely forgotten within 30 days. It was, quite frankly, a complete waste of time..........
Mitch, You're making all of these assumptions, from what I can tell, based upon one main point. Jacob's lack of willingness to publicly tell the world (via postings on the Internet) precisely what our side did and did not do both openly and behind the scenes.

I can logically assume that you would also expect him (or us) to also tell the world what we have planned for the future of this effort to protect the gun show. But he won't and we won't. Jacob, aka Pennys Dad, is part of coordinated team effort and he is doing a fine job.

In fact; those calls, emails, letters, faxes, public comments, etc. are having a result. I doubt your discouraging messages are helping though. In fact, I don't understand why you would want to discourage our side from participating in the efforts to save the gun show?!?!?!? Maybe discouragement is not your intent??? Maybe, you simply want us to post our detailed plans and efforts on the Internet???

Sorry, not! That is not going to happen if/until it suits our strategy. Please don't expect any of us to telegraph our efforts to the anti-gun show people in advance. That would do more harm than good.

Have some faith. Work with the team. Let's try to help protect our freedoms in every way that we can do it. This is going to be a tough effort and its not going to be limited to saving a gun show here-and-there. There are battles raging across the nation and we all must do our part and try to help.

We are not stupid. Nor are we ignorant to the ways of political action. Just the opposite for some of us. But each fight can be won or lost. There is no certain victories in our future. Whether we win a fight or lose it, we MUST go forward to the next battle and fight it like our freedom depends upon it ---- because it does!

Join with us. Help us take a stand. Please.

Paul
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  #92  
Old 01-24-2013, 8:41 AM
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So is there a legal recourse that can be taken for the show promoters? I thought this was taken care with the Cow Palace lawsuit?
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  #93  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:33 PM
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Mitch, You're making all of these assumptions, from what I can tell, based upon one main point. Jacob's lack of willingness to publicly tell the world (via postings on the Internet) precisely what our side did and did not do both openly and behind the scenes.
Well, I did ask if anyone met with council members before the meeting. I never got a reply to that. What was I supposed to assume?

It's not a super secret strategy, the answer is yes or no. If the answer was yes, then I'm very sorry to hear the city council could not listen to reason (you don't always win). But if the answer was no, then I'm not at all surprised the vote went against us. I have seen too many council meetings where the vote went against the majority of citizen speakers to be in any way astonished.

Again, we have nothing to fear from LCAV or whatever they are calling themselves these days learning that we are speaking privately to council members, because that is how you win city council votes. They know it and they expect us to do it.

Anyway, you are speaking from your experience and I am speaking from mine. I have had success with local lobbying. It was shockingly easy, once I knew how to do it. And at the same time I have seen council chambers filled to bursting, with citizens lined up out the door waiting for their chance to speak, to no avail.

When you sit through as many city council meetings as I have, you see a lot of this stuff.
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  #94  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:45 PM
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Email the mayor and every councilmen to voice your opinion. They need to know even if you don't live there. Their contact information can be found at

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/st...-gun-show.aspx

My email to the mayor and each councilmen

Councilman Ara Najarian,

I just read that you supported having the annual Glendale Gun Show. I think that's wonderful of you! That show draws a lot of business from all over the state bringing a lot of revenue to your area, not to mention its 20 year track record of being 100% SAFE. Thank you!

The rest of you who appose this, please consider the safety record of this gun show and the direct loss of revenue this will have. It is far more than just money spent at the show it is hotel rooms, restaurants and much more. People from all over the state come for this and generally make a weekend of it to enjoy the area.
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  #95  
Old 01-24-2013, 1:40 PM
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Originally Posted by abcsfamilyman View Post
Councilman Ara Najarian,

I just read that you supported having the annual Glendale Gun Show. I think that's wonderful of you! That show draws a lot of business from all over the state bringing a lot of revenue to your area, not to mention its 20 year track record of being 100% SAFE. Thank you!

The rest of you who appose this, please consider the safety record of this gun show and the direct loss of revenue this will have. It is far more than just money spent at the show it is hotel rooms, restaurants and much more. People from all over the state come for this and generally make a weekend of it to enjoy the area.
Don't know how much pull the Chamber of Commerce has (or has anywhere, for that matter), but it might be worth CC'ing them as well.
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  #96  
Old 01-24-2013, 1:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mitch View Post
It's not a super secret strategy, the answer is yes or no. If the answer was yes, then I'm very sorry to hear the city council could not listen to reason (you don't always win). But if the answer was no, then I'm not at all surprised the vote went against us. I have seen too many council meetings where the vote went against the majority of citizen speakers to be in any way astonished.
Bingo. 100% on target. Protests, petitions, long winded speeches at political events and town hall meetings, calling, faxing.. all of it pales in comparison with 1 on 1 time.

If it is your state (or god forbid national) congressperson, perhaps they are hard to find and talk to.

But your city councilman lives in your area AND IS A NEIGHBOR.
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  #97  
Old 01-24-2013, 3:49 PM
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Well, I did ask if anyone met with council members before the meeting. I never got a reply to that. What was I supposed to assume?

Anyway, you are speaking from your experience and I am speaking from mine.
Yes Mitch. You are correct. And my experience has taught me that sometimes, representatives are very cautious to discuss things with some people if they suspect that those discussions won't be held in confidence.

Hypothetical situation #1: IF discussions were held and that information was released, certain representatives who were known to be "fence sitters" could be pressured by their peers. That would not benefit us.

Hypothetical situation #2: IF no discussions were held, and that information was not released, certain peers would wonder IF the "fence sitters" were discreetly discussing issues and any pressure could actually work in our favor.

There are other "situations" both "hypothetical" and real, but it wouldn't help our cause if we went into them on the Internet.

You know that you can always call me.

Paul
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  #98  
Old 01-24-2013, 7:43 PM
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F-it they dont want the thousands of dollars in revenue then I say we start lobbying other places to have it, what about say, San Fernando? Or Burbank or eagle rock, show glendale council just how stupid they are.
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  #99  
Old 01-26-2013, 8:33 PM
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Didn't really matter since it seems they don't care what the people said.
That is the problem with politicians of late, for whatever reason, lobbyist I assume, they don't vote for what the people want. Take Obamacare, depending on who's poll you like, 59-63% of the people were against it. Didn't stop them from approving it! How they keep getting re-elected is beyond me.
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  #100  
Old 01-29-2013, 12:43 AM
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Late to the show, but after class tomorrow I will go through every email listed here.
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  #101  
Old 01-29-2013, 9:20 AM
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I will definitely send out emails and call. Ill try to make it out as well....
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  #102  
Old 01-29-2013, 12:11 PM
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Let Glendale lose the tax revenue, some other nearby city will gladly take it. Personally there is nothing in a gun show that I want or need, but for those that frequent them, keep up the fight I guess.
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  #103  
Old 01-29-2013, 12:15 PM
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Gun shows are way overpriced anyways. Nothing like surfing the web for goodies while I clean and lube my toys from the comfort of my own home. Did I mention it's CHEAPER.
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  #104  
Old 01-30-2013, 1:17 PM
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ALL CALGUNNERS SHOULD PROMOTE PARADE AND RALLY TO PROTECT GUN BAN ON ASSAULT RIFLE.
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  #105  
Old 02-01-2013, 5:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Norsemen308 View Post
this is unreal....we have counties that have 420 Pot conventions, Pornographic Conventions, BDSM conventions (none of these directly related to Glendale) but Its unreal what taboo crap you can get away with, yet you try and have a gun show and all of a sudden Politicians "don't feel okay taking that blood money". I keep hearing about being tolerant to people's life style, but if you say you want to raise your kid in a target shooting/hunting lifestyle you are some sort of monster.... WHAT THE HECK?
problem is theres more potheads, gays and perverts in this state and in political office than there are gun owners.
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  #106  
Old 02-01-2013, 8:28 AM
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problem is theres more potheads, gays and perverts in this state and in political office than there are gun owners.
Another problem is the attitude you illustrate, that gun owners don't like anybody else to have the same freedoms they demand, or at the very least lump everybody else together as somehow weird and freaky, which of course no gun owners are.
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  #107  
Old 02-01-2013, 8:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Hated View Post
problem is theres more potheads, gays and perverts in this state and in political office than there are gun owners.
Considering this website is more or less a gathering of people who believe the government should stay out of our business, you're quick to throw other groups of people under the bus. The major issue is anti-gun people. Trying to divert our attention to anything else is just going to mire the 2A movement in unneeded/unwanted resistance.
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  #108  
Old 02-01-2013, 3:01 PM
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Another problem is the attitude you illustrate, that gun owners don't like anybody else to have the same freedoms they demand, or at the very least lump everybody else together as somehow weird and freaky, which of course no gun owners are.
For real. I'm a pervert and a gun owner.

But seriously, it's 20-****ing-13.
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