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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 01-15-2013, 9:13 AM
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Default 2013 CA SB 108 Yee Firearms: lending and residential storage

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/13-14/...introduced.htm

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/po...e=B&author=yee

Add to the list of CA legislation for 2013 then delete this thread. Thanks.

Also, http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...201320140SB108

AMENDED 3/11/2013 - now just storage; Sections 8-12 deleted.

// Librarian
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Last edited by Librarian; 03-18-2013 at 2:05 PM.. Reason: Added link to bill page
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Old 01-15-2013, 9:35 AM
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It also means that you cannot loan your unregistered handgun to anyone. This is a reachback clause to get those handguns previously owned before registration, into the database for future confiscation.
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Old 01-15-2013, 9:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainsavaho View Post
Can somebody explain this in plain english. What the heck is it trying to say?
You know those signs in every gun dealer that say, "if you store a firearm where a minor gains access to it without supervision, you've committed a crime?"

Change that to, "where a minor could gain access"

...and if you have an unregistered gun, it's illegal to loan it to anyone.
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Old 01-15-2013, 9:57 AM
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"37(3) The duration of the loan does not exceed the amount of time
38that is reasonably necessary to engage in the lawful, recreational
39sport, including, but not limited to, competitive shooting, or
40agricultural, ranching, or hunting activity, or a motion picture,
P10 1television, or video production, or entertainment or theatrical event,
2the nature of which involves the use of a firearm."

This one made me chuckle. How does one determine "reasonable" time limits.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadstorm View Post
You know those signs in every gun dealer that say, "if you store a firearm where a minor gains access to it without supervision, you've committed a crime?"

Change that to, "where a minor could gain access"

...and if you have an unregistered gun, it's illegal to loan it to anyone.


Got it, thanks
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  #6  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:06 AM
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14(g) As used in Sections 29010 to 29150, inclusive, “firearm”
15includes the unfinished frame or receiver of a weapon that can be
16readily converted to the functional condition of a finished frame
17or receiver.

Does this refer to 80% frames?
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:07 AM
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Do the locked containers and locking devices have to be those approved by DOJ? I don't see mention of that ...
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:07 AM
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There will be court battles and WE WILL WIN.
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  #9  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No1Smitty View Post
14(g) As used in Sections 29010 to 29150, inclusive, “firearm”
15includes the unfinished frame or receiver of a weapon that can be
16readily converted to the functional condition of a finished frame
17or receiver.

Does this refer to 80% frames?

Yes...seems pretty clear.

What weren't you understanding??

-hanko
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadstorm View Post
You know those signs in every gun dealer that say, "if you store a firearm where a minor gains access to it without supervision, you've committed a crime?"

Change that to, "where a minor could gain access"

...and if you have an unregistered gun, it's illegal to loan it to anyone.
It's worse than that. The storage law has no dependency on minors possibly getting access, and doesn't mention minors at all. It simply says that all of your guns inside your residence must be locked up at all times when you are outside your residence, period.

Quote:
a) A person who is 18 years of age or older and who
is the owner, lessee, renter, or other legal occupant of a residence,
shall not, while outside of that residence, store in that residence a
firearm that he or she owns or has lawful possession of unless the
firearm is stored in one of the following ways:

(1) The firearm is within a locked container.

(2) The firearm is disabled by a firearm safety device.

(3) The firearm is within a locked gun safe.

(4) The firearm is within a locked trunk.

(5) The firearm is locked with a locking device as described in
Section 16860, which has rendered the firearm inoperable.
The first and second offenses are infractions, but the 3rd is a misdemeanor. Since each gun represents a separate offense, if you have three guns in your house unlocked, it is an immediate misdemeanor violation even if this is your "first offense".
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  #11  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:16 AM
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Well, you can pretty much consider this law. With Dems in control with a super majority and Moonbeam at the helm,, they will have their way with us. No vaseline included.



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  #12  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No1Smitty View Post
14(g) As used in Sections 29010 to 29150, inclusive, “firearm”
15includes the unfinished frame or receiver of a weapon that can be
16readily converted to the functional condition of a finished frame
17or receiver.

Does this refer to 80% frames?
And people here thought they didnt know what an 80% frame is. They are pretty much in the know. I guess it doesnt help, though, to televise people completing 80% frames at a machine shop to create an "untraceable" firearm.
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  #13  
Old 01-15-2013, 11:23 AM
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It also adds new language to the Penal Code and redefines what a firearm is. For example, that flaregun you have in your boat currently isn't a firearm. If this passes, then the flaregun will be a firearm and subject to all the restrictions associated.

(c) As used in the following provisions, “firearm” also includes a rocket, rocket propelled projectile launcher, or similar device containing an explosive or incendiary material, whether or not the device is designed for emergency or distress signaling purposes:
(1) Section 16750.
(2) Subdivision (b) of Section 16840.
(3) Section 25400.
(4) Sections 25850 to 26025, inclusive.
(5) Subdivisions (a), (b), and (c) of Section 26030.
(6) Sections 26035 to 26055, inclusive.
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  #14  
Old 01-15-2013, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No1Smitty View Post
14(g) As used in Sections 29010 to 29150, inclusive, “firearm”
15includes the unfinished frame or receiver of a weapon that can be
16readily converted to the functional condition of a finished frame
17or receiver.

Does this refer to 80% frames?
Looks like it does.
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Last edited by Decoligny; 01-15-2013 at 11:32 AM..
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:17 PM
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Well, I will say that it seems they read Heller and McDonald and at least made a token effort to allow a functional firearm in the home (when the registered owner is home..)

Otherwise.. so full of fail. Must... resist.. urge to poke holes in law... on public forum....

So hard with such easy targets.
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  #16  
Old 01-15-2013, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrr View Post
Well, I will say that it seems they read Heller and McDonald and at least made a token effort to allow a functional firearm in the home (when the registered owner is inside their home..)
FTFY. As I read it, any of the following would be a criminal act if 100% of your firearms aren't locked up inside your "residence":

1) Walking outside to get the mail out of your mailbox.
2) Walking outside to flip your steak on the BBQ.
3) Running outside to try an help a person getting mugged on the street in front of your residence.
4) Walking outside to toss a ball for your dog in your front yard.
5) etc...

Note that "residence" isn't defined to include your yard (fenced or not), it is defined as only the structure itself:

Quote:
As used in Section 25235, “residence” is any structure
intended or used for human habitation, including, but not limited
to, houses, condominiums, rooms, motels, hotels, time-shares, and
recreational and other vehicles where human habitation occurs.
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  #17  
Old 01-15-2013, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No1Smitty View Post
14(g) As used in Sections 29010 to 29150, inclusive, “firearm”
15includes the unfinished frame or receiver of a weapon that can be
16readily converted to the functional condition of a finished frame
17or receiver.

Does this refer to 80% frames?
Ha! So let me get this straight - an uncompleted 80% receiver isn't a gun - so say the Feds (and CA). So if it isn't a gun, it is just a chunk of metal. Is this bill saying you have to treat your chunk of metal like a gun, even though it is a chuck of metal? The courts will love this. We now have pregnant, not pregnant, and "almost/kinda" pregnant.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:57 PM
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How is a locked trunk on a car more secure than my locked house???!!!!!
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:59 PM
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(deleting my findings so as not to give ideas to the enemy)
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  #20  
Old 01-15-2013, 1:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Boy View Post
Ha! So let me get this straight - an uncompleted 80% receiver isn't a gun - so say the Feds (and CA). So if it isn't a gun, it is just a chunk of metal. Is this bill saying you have to treat your chunk of metal like a gun, even though it is a chuck of metal? The courts will love this. We now have pregnant, not pregnant, and "almost/kinda" pregnant.
To paraphrase Gene from years ago, every piece of sheet metal everywhere is an unfinished AK receiver. Every air conditioning duct, every file cabinet, every scrap of metal anywhere that you could bend and pop rivets into is an "unfinished receiver".
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  #21  
Old 01-15-2013, 1:11 PM
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I need to reconsider selling my son's old baseball bats... though they may be coming for them eventually.
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Old 01-15-2013, 1:15 PM
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Default Minor children using my guns for self defense

I have lots of questions I hope someone can help my with. When my girls are a little older, I would like them to be able to sue my guns for their self defense when I am not home. I believe that is permissable under exisiting law - I am only liable IF they use them improperly and someone is injured, say by playing with them. Correct me if I am wrong about that.

Lots of questions about the effect of this bill:

Will I be able to allow my minor children access to the guns for this purpose?

If I have them locked in a gun safe which the kids have access to, have I "loaned" the guns to them? Even if the house is never broken into and they never actually touch the guns? Self defense is conspicously absent from the list of purposes for which loans are permitted.

Is the answer different for long guns than for hand guns (other than with respect to 18 versus 21 cutoff)?

I for one believe that prohibiting a 16 year old girl from having access to a gun to protect herself while home alone is unreasonable and ill-conceived, whether it vioaltes my or her 2nd Amenmdnet rights or not.
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Old 01-15-2013, 1:15 PM
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Grizzly, thats exactly the sort of stuff I was talking about. So full of fail. Like, I said "token effort" to comply with Heller.

Now, lets defeat this before it passes. If we can't defeat it, lets at least not help make it better by pointing out the flaws and contradictions that will help defeat it in court.
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Old 01-15-2013, 1:24 PM
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The people of the State of California do enact as follows:

I was never asked if I agreed to Yee's crap.
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Old 01-15-2013, 1:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by August View Post
This one made me chuckle. How does one determine "reasonable" time limits.
If the DA doesn't like it, it's unreasonable.
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Old 01-15-2013, 1:28 PM
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Don't forget shovels too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steadyrock View Post
To paraphrase Gene from years ago, every piece of sheet metal everywhere is an unfinished AK receiver. Every air conditioning duct, every file cabinet, every scrap of metal anywhere that you could bend and pop rivets into is an "unfinished receiver".
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Old 01-15-2013, 1:29 PM
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Shovels have to be locked up too it appears, since they are unfinished AK receivers

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbu...sunami-warning!

edit: Damn it Spaceghost
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Old 01-15-2013, 1:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by railgunner View Post
The people of the State of California do enact as follows:

I was never asked if I agreed to Yee's crap.
Hah, seriously. It should read "Two or three guys from one or two counties do enact, and everyone else is too lazy to bother to stop them, as follows:"
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Old 01-15-2013, 1:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadstorm View Post
You know those signs in every gun dealer that say, "if you store a firearm where a minor gains access to it without supervision, you've committed a crime?"

Change that to, "where a minor could gain access"

...and if you have an unregistered gun, it's illegal to loan it to anyone.
Good Job Yee. If your kid shoots you in the head and takes your other firearms, you'll be in BIG trouble eh?
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Old 01-15-2013, 1:33 PM
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I don't see how that is even enforceable. I get that it is likely one of those "after the fact" kind of laws, like minors using parents unsecured gun in a crime, but how would the state even prove that a gun did not have a lock when it was stolen, or that it was even stolen while the resident was not home?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyGuy View Post
It's worse than that. The storage law has no dependency on minors possibly getting access, and doesn't mention minors at all. It simply says that all of your guns inside your residence must be locked up at all times when you are outside your residence, period.



The first and second offenses are infractions, but the 3rd is a misdemeanor. Since each gun represents a separate offense, if you have three guns in your house unlocked, it is an immediate misdemeanor violation even if this is your "first offense".
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Old 01-15-2013, 1:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyGuy View Post
It's worse than that. The storage law has no dependency on minors possibly getting access, and doesn't mention minors at all. It simply says that all of your guns inside your residence must be locked up at all times when you are outside your residence, period.



The first and second offenses are infractions, but the 3rd is a misdemeanor. Since each gun represents a separate offense, if you have three guns in your house unlocked, it is an immediate misdemeanor violation even if this is your "first offense".
whoops... i stand corrected.
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Old 01-15-2013, 1:44 PM
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damn man it seems like almost every other week Yee making different bills. its getting annoying!!
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Old 01-15-2013, 1:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
It also adds new language to the Penal Code and redefines what a firearm is.

(c) As used in the following provisions, “firearm” also includes a rocket, rocket propelled projectile launcher, or similar device containing an explosive or incendiary material, whether or not the device is designed for emergency or distress signaling purposes:
So the model rockets I grew up with as a kid? Same ones I can purchase in a hobby store?
Recommended age: 10+.
Adult supervision for under: 12yrs.
10 day waiting period: California.

Last edited by Fellblade; 01-15-2013 at 1:47 PM..
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Old 01-15-2013, 2:15 PM
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Dear Senator Yee:

I no longer acknowledge your Authority to institute Unconstitutional Laws.

Sincerely,

Mr. Taxpayer
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Old 01-15-2013, 3:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
It also adds new language to the Penal Code and redefines what a firearm is. For example, that flaregun you have in your boat currently isn't a firearm. If this passes, then the flaregun will be a firearm and subject to all the restrictions associated.

(c) As used in the following provisions, “firearm” also includes a rocket, rocket propelled projectile launcher, or similar device containing an explosive or incendiary material, whether or not the device is designed for emergency or distress signaling purposes:
(1) Section 16750.
(2) Subdivision (b) of Section 16840.
(3) Section 25400.
(4) Sections 25850 to 26025, inclusive.
(5) Subdivisions (a), (b), and (c) of Section 26030.
(6) Sections 26035 to 26055, inclusive.
That's actually the same definition that is in current law (PC 16520):

Quote:
(c) As used in the following provisions, "firearm" also includes
any rocket, rocket propelled projectile launcher, or similar device
containing any explosive or incendiary material whether or not the
device is designed for emergency or distress signaling purposes:
I think the only change in this new bill is to apply that same definition to the new PC sections that the bill creates.

As an aside, many hang glider pilots adopted rocket-propelled emergency parachutes a number of years ago. The hang gliding harnesses they are mounted in are thus always a "loaded" "firearm", so who knows how many 12031 felonies were committed over the years in driving to and from the launch site and LZ. These days virtually everyone has gone back to the old hand-deployed chutes because getting the rockets to fire required almost herculean strength to yank the cord that ignited them.
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  #36  
Old 01-15-2013, 3:58 PM
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Time once again to look at 'how to read a bill'.

Here's the link to the new-style representation of the text: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...201320140SB108

Quote:
SECTION 1.
Section 16520 of the Penal Code is amended to read:

16520.
(a) As used in this part, “firearm” means a device, designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel, a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion.
etc
The NEW PARTS are in BLUE ITALIC
Quote:
...
(14) Sections 29010 to 29150, inclusive.
(15) Section 25235.
(e) As used in Sections 34005 and 34010, “firearm” does not include a destructive device.
...
DELETED PARTS are in RED STRIKEOUT
Quote:
27505.
(a) No A person, corporation, or firm shall not sell, loan, or transfer a firearm to a minor, nor sell a handgun to an individual under 21 years of age.
(b) Subdivision (a) shall does not apply to or affect the following circumstances:
Ordinary black type is usually what exists now.

Haven't seen next version in this display mode, but revisions to this are probably relative to the prior version; that is, things from the first version will appear as plain black text, and amendments to the first version will get the color/italic/strike treatment.
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Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
the details do not matter until the Governor signs or allows the bill to become law.

Ask CA law questions in the How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me Forum
- most questions that start 'Is it legal ...' go there.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Last edited by Librarian; 01-15-2013 at 4:02 PM..
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  #37  
Old 01-15-2013, 4:12 PM
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stix213 stix213 is offline
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Looks like all handgun loans will have to be registered handguns to the owner making the loan.
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  #38  
Old 01-15-2013, 4:47 PM
taperxz taperxz is offline
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Dear Sen. Yee, Does your Chief of Staff, Adam Keigwin not like you?

Do you realize that the proposed bill you have and its infringements have already been been heard by the SCOTUS?

Adam, if you really cared about the Senator, you would fire yourself for trying to put together these kinds of bills. You're ignorant, a disgrace and wasting taxpayers money!!

Can't you two find some bill to write up on video games or noodles? Perhaps a law making sure that all retailers of sun screen should be locked up to prevent theft? Oh, and by the way Senator, what good is it to make more laws? Prostitution is already illegal and yet you have no problem violating that law.

To refresh your memory and to use a phrase that you antis like to keep using and abusing, i will leave you with this:

A right to functional firearms, most notably in the home

Doesn't this^^ kind of blow a big fat hole in your idea???

Last edited by taperxz; 01-15-2013 at 5:26 PM..
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  #39  
Old 01-15-2013, 5:10 PM
Brandon_cal Brandon_cal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No1Smitty View Post
14(g) As used in Sections 29010 to 29150, inclusive, “firearm”
15includes the unfinished frame or receiver of a weapon that can be
16readily converted to the functional condition of a finished frame
17or receiver.

Does this refer to 80% frames?
Readily converted? Well the place I know about is booked out two weeks, I'd say the only ones "readily converted" would be ones where you have the proper machinery.

Anyone know if a finished 80% frame will have to be registered? Federally or State?

First time poster, be nice.
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  #40  
Old 01-15-2013, 5:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3572001 View Post
There will be court battles and WE WILL WIN.
You must belong to the Anti-2A side.

Their hasn't been any win in CA in a very long time. Any victory is just delaying the inevitable.

Guns will be banned in California in 30 years.
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