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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #161  
Old 01-17-2013, 10:39 AM
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yeah, my understanding is this is a done deal. I don't think the usual loose lips sink ships speech is needed.

Still, BB allowed or not, this is a sad day for NY gun owners. And I agree that this law highlights the dangers of letting ignorant people write the laws. Its like asking someone whose never even been in a car to draft car safety laws.
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  #162  
Old 01-17-2013, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wherryj View Post
I wholeheartedly disagree. CA will most CERTAINLY at least "one up" NY.
yep. CA legislative goons want to "lead" not follow... they will make it more restrictive just to say they are setting the standard (pathetic).
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  #163  
Old 01-17-2013, 10:57 AM
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Ok, I read it wrong the first time. Had to go back to the "how to read a bill page"

They specifically allow bullet buttons, but pay attention to the list, it's sneaky.
An assault weapon is,
"(VIII) A SEMIAUTOMATIC VERSION OF AN AUTOMATIC RIFLE, SHOTGUN OR
25 FIREARM;"

Good luck getting anything in NY with that little section.

The links in the first post are from S1422, which was proposed weeks ago.

Cuomo signed S2230,

http://www.nysenate.gov/files/pdfs/S2230.pdf

There's the complete text.
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  #164  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:03 AM
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Wow. IMHO they really stepped in it with that. Thats even worse than the CA language that got thrown out in Harrot. Consider this, any semi auto can conceivably be turned into a full auto. There are full auto Ruger 10/22s, mini-14s, etc. So, is the original a semi auto with a full auto version, or vice versa and thus an AW? And how is any reasonable and prudent person supposed to know if at any time ever in the world there has been a full auto version of their firearm produced?

Vague and ambiguous much? Add to that the fact that they allow you to have a ten round magazine, but only load 7 rounds, which gives an interesting challenge to the "functional" firearm protection in Heller. Could be some interesting challenges made. They will all lose, btw, since this is NY we're talking about. But could make for some good appellate cases.
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  #165  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinarmory View Post
That is cool that you found that. Formerly NY had the option of one EBR feature, but they could did not really codify mag locked guns. Now it appears that they have opened a door to bb'd guns!
I think that I'm reading this differently. Does anyone else think that they were TRYING to write was a law that stated that removing the magazine with a tool was ok, but the bullet or ammunition cartridge wasn't a tool?

They ended up wrtiing "WITHOUT THE USE OF ANY TOOL, INCLUDING A BULLET OR AMMUNITION CARTRIDGE", which clearly lists a bullet or cartridge as a tool by its wording.

Why would NY actually expressly list the BB as a tool when they could just leave it ambiguous and thus open to future infringement? This seems like an unnecessarily generous step from a group that just ripped the second amendment out of the Bill of Rights and used it for toilet paper.
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  #166  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigcalidave View Post
Ok, I read it wrong the first time. Had to go back to the "how to read a bill page"

They specifically allow bullet buttons, but pay attention to the list, it's sneaky.
An assault weapon is,
"(VIII) A SEMIAUTOMATIC VERSION OF AN AUTOMATIC RIFLE, SHOTGUN OR
25 FIREARM;"

Good luck getting anything in NY with that little section.

The links in the first post are from S1422, which was proposed weeks ago.

Cuomo signed S2230,

http://www.nysenate.gov/files/pdfs/S2230.pdf

There's the complete text.
wouldnt that apply to M-16s, etc modified for semi-auto, but not for ar-15s or other firearms originally built in semi-auto?
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  #167  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wherryj View Post
I think that I'm reading this differently. Does anyone else think that they were TRYING to write was a law that stated that removing the magazine with a tool was ok, but the bullet or ammunition cartridge wasn't a tool?

They ended up wrtiing "WITHOUT THE USE OF ANY TOOL, INCLUDING A BULLET OR AMMUNITION CARTRIDGE", which clearly lists a bullet or cartridge as a tool by its wording.

Why would NY actually expressly list the BB as a tool when they could just leave it ambiguous and thus open to future infringement? This seems like an unnecessarily generous step from a group that just ripped the second amendment out of the Bill of Rights and used it for toilet paper.
lol. I was thinking the same thing. I read that sentence over in my head a considerable amount of times.
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  #168  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
wouldnt that apply to M-16s, etc modified for semi-auto, but not for ar-15s or other firearms originally built in semi-auto?
I don't think so. A semiauto version of a full auto firearm remains so regardless of the order of their design.
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  #169  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:30 AM
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The Mayor of New York is an idiot....

Don't load the 8th round into your magazine?!?!

There isn't even a market for 7 round magazines! To make things worse, do you think these criminals will follow that 7 round magazine rule.... NO!
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  #170  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:36 AM
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It was pointed out to me on another forum that there's no exemption for LEOs in the law. Does anyone know if there's some exemption elsewhere?
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  #171  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:53 AM
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No more internet sales of ammo to NY.

Quote:
In order to prevent circumvention of these new controls, this bill
requires that any seller whether located in New York or out of state
ship the ammunition to a dealer within New York for in person pickup.
The dealer is required to maintain records of the ammunition sale and to
perform a State review of disqualifiers.
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  #172  
Old 01-17-2013, 12:14 PM
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It appears that in their haste to "do something" about guns, they forgot to exempt Police from the 7 round magazine limit...

I think we just scored thousands of pro-gun police officers thanks to their sloppiness!
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  #173  
Old 01-17-2013, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMP91 View Post
It appears that in their haste to "do something" about guns, they forgot to exempt Police from the 7 round magazine limit...

I think we just scored thousands of pro-gun police officers thanks to their sloppiness!
On the other hand. Those NYC cops accidentally shot nine people when they went after the Empire State shooter.

Maybe the people of New York will be safer if the cops have fewer rounds...
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  #174  
Old 01-17-2013, 12:49 PM
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It would be funny to see entire NY police departments arrested for possessing hi cap mags.
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  #175  
Old 01-17-2013, 1:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMP91 View Post
I think we just scored thousands of pro-gun police officers thanks to their sloppiness!
How do you figure? They'll take their upcoming exemption (in a "technical update") to the law and do nothing for civilians. That's the whole point of a LEO exemption: to induce LEOs not to object to the upcoming screwing of civilians.
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  #176  
Old 01-17-2013, 1:12 PM
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Yeah, its hilarious and humiliating for the governor and his stooges. But, it will only take another illegal "emergency" vote to fix it. I really don't see cops arresting other cops for this.

BTW, if I was a FFL in NY state, I'd refuse to do ANY business with any State agency just on general principle.
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  #177  
Old 01-17-2013, 1:18 PM
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OH yeah .... like criminals will adhere to that rule...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifter206 View Post
The Mayor of New York is an idiot....

Don't load the 8th round into your magazine?!?!

There isn't even a market for 7 round magazines! To make things worse, do you think these criminals will follow that 7 round magazine rule.... NO!
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  #178  
Old 01-17-2013, 1:26 PM
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http://www.algraf.org/2013/01/15/gra...awed-gun-bill/
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  #179  
Old 01-17-2013, 1:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc748bip View Post
OH yeah .... like criminals will adhere to that rule...
So long as they discharge all rounds > 7, all evidence of their transgression is gone
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  #180  
Old 01-17-2013, 2:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrr View Post
Yeah, its hilarious and humiliating for the governor and his stooges. But, it will only take another illegal "emergency" vote to fix it. I really don't see cops arresting other cops for this.

BTW, if I was a FFL in NY state, I'd refuse to do ANY business with any State agency just on general principle.
This would actually have a huge impact if all businesses involved in the industry declared that they would not sell anything to the government agencies that could not be sold to the peasants.

Additionally, I would like to know how exemptions work legally under an ammendment written in a Constitution in a country created on a written principle where allegedly all men (and of course women) are "created equal" with inalienable rights and so on.
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  #181  
Old 01-17-2013, 2:26 PM
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Absolutely sickening. And we all know this just sets a precedent for CA to follow.
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  #182  
Old 01-17-2013, 2:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMP91 View Post
It appears that in their haste to "do something" about guns, they forgot to exempt Police from the 7 round magazine limit...

I think we just scored thousands of pro-gun police officers thanks to their sloppiness!
If this is true, 2A activists should effect citizens arrests on every police officer they can find that is breaking the new law just to show the legislators how stupid they are.

1 day with hundreds or thousands of cops off the beat should wake up a few people..
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  #183  
Old 01-17-2013, 2:40 PM
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It's just unconstitutional plain and simple. Those in office took an oath to support the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. We gave them the power and they abused it. It's time we take it back. Put up or shut up. Vote them out!!
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  #184  
Old 01-17-2013, 3:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrr View Post
Yeah, its hilarious and humiliating for the governor and his stooges. But, it will only take another illegal "emergency" vote to fix it. I really don't see cops arresting other cops for this.

BTW, if I was a FFL in NY state, I'd refuse to do ANY business with any State agency just on general principle.
They wouldn't arrest each other anyways. You think a cop is going to arrest his buddy over a magazine? No way. He needs his buddy's help to lock up all the law abiding citizens this law makes into felons.
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  #185  
Old 01-17-2013, 3:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotEnufGarage View Post
If this is true, 2A activists should effect citizens arrests on every police officer they can find that is breaking the new law just to show the legislators how stupid they are.
Sounds great, if you want a bunch of dead civilians.
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  #186  
Old 01-17-2013, 10:37 PM
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This is from Rep Steve McLaughlin posted on his Facebook page concerning what Democrats wanted originally included in the SAFE ACT.


Quote:
Here it is. This is the video where I was asked to keep the Democrat proposals for the NY SAFE Act away from the public. This list was given to me by a colleague and it is not confidential.

This bill was an attack on the 2nd amendment and the Democrats clearly wanted to dismantle the work of the Founding Fathers. None of these amendments were included in the final bill thanks to us fighting back. I will not stand silent while these unpatriotic proposals are pathetically thrown at us a 11 o’clock at night:

1. Confiscation of "assault weapons"
2. Confiscation o ten round clips
3. Statewide database for ALL Guns
4. Continue to allow pistol permit holder's information to be replaced to the public
5. Label semiautomatic shotguns with more than 5 rounds or pistol grips as "assault weapons”
6. Limit the number of rounds in a magazine to 5 and confiscation and forfeiture of banned magazines
7. Limit possession to no more than two (2) magazines
8. Limit purchase of guns to one gun per person per month
9. Require re-licensing of all pistol permit owners
10. Require renewal of all pistol permits every five years
11. State issued pistol permits
12. Micro-stamping of all guns in New York State
13. Require licensing of all gun ammo dealers
14. Mandatory locking of guns at home
15. Fee for licensing, registering weapons

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=ryUbJfg4tAo
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  #187  
Old 01-18-2013, 12:28 AM
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http://nyshooters.net/forum/showthre...they-are-after
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  #188  
Old 01-18-2013, 2:02 AM
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The NY PBA (their police union) is completely furious.
They want both current and retired police officers exempted from the 7-round limit. Now, what makes a retired police officer different from an ordinary person?
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  #189  
Old 01-18-2013, 7:22 AM
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So is this an actual law now, that new York has to follow? If not, how long until they actually are supposed to follow these rules?
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  #190  
Old 01-18-2013, 7:29 AM
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From here:

Quote:
As a result, at least one Federal Firearms Licensee has refused to allow police officers who have purchased guns to have the magazines that come with them, because those factory standard magazines hold more than seven rounds. The FFL fears selling the guns he has with the magazines they came with would be breaking the law, even when the purchasers are cops, because there are no clear provisions in the bill allowing a police exception to the ban.
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  #191  
Old 01-18-2013, 7:30 AM
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and they wonder why only an estimated 10% of the "eligible" rifles covered under the 2000 ban were registered...
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  #192  
Old 01-18-2013, 6:24 PM
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So when there is a legal challenge to this will WE find out here? Also, can we send money their way to a "Calguns" type entity back in NY? Not that we won't have our own issues here to fund and deal with soon, but if one link fails, you lose the whole chain. What are the chances that this gets shot down, and the way its modeled after a lot of our stuff, helps us to some extent? Is their a coordinated effort between Calguns (since we have been dealing with this crap longer) the SAF and the NRA?
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  #193  
Old 01-20-2013, 9:53 PM
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Default Let's hope they don't have an agenda like this in Sacramento

http://www.thecommentator.com/articl...cation_of_guns
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  #194  
Old 01-20-2013, 10:40 PM
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Of course they do.
How stupid to these people think we are?
Forget all the stupid bans that are clearly unconstitutional,
its is all the licensing and associated fees which are designed to bleed us dry.
How many people will keep lots of guns when the fees start adding up to more then they can afford...
"Reasonable" yeah, sure.
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  #195  
Old 01-21-2013, 6:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
wouldnt that apply to M-16s, etc modified for semi-auto, but not for ar-15s or other firearms originally built in semi-auto?
The first AR-15s were select-fire.
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  #196  
Old 01-21-2013, 8:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VW*Mike View Post
So when there is a legal challenge to this will WE find out here? Also, can we send money their way to a "Calguns" type entity back in NY? Not that we won't have our own issues here to fund and deal with soon, but if one link fails, you lose the whole chain. What are the chances that this gets shot down, and the way its modeled after a lot of our stuff, helps us to some extent? Is their a coordinated effort between Calguns (since we have been dealing with this crap longer) the SAF and the NRA?
Legal challenge you ask? Here you go:

http://www.nysrpa.org/index.php?opti...ews&Itemid=192

I bet one of the attorneys they reference is none other than Mr. Gura.
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  #197  
Old 01-22-2013, 5:06 AM
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Question question about NY's mag law and tube magazines

As i understand it mags that only hold 10 rounds have to be altered to only hold 7. Does the law cover tube magazines like on lever rifles and shotguns? Is it even possible to permanently limit a mossberg tube to only hold 7 shells without wrecking the shotgun?
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  #198  
Old 01-22-2013, 5:12 AM
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It's a tiered system in NY State now.

10+ round magazines have to be removed from the state within 12 months.
10 round mags owned before the SAFE act can be owned and used so long as its owner only loads 7 in them.
New firearms sold in NY cannot have an 8 round magazine included, nor can residents buy new 8 round mags.
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  #199  
Old 01-22-2013, 5:15 AM
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So it does cover tube magazines? No more 590's in NY i guess
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  #200  
Old 01-22-2013, 5:30 AM
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Does your 590 hold more than 10? If not you're fine.
I didn't read it very closely but I don't think the legislation made any exceptions for types of magazines so I believe it does cover tube mags and everything else.

Also, if you're not in NY you're fine... If you are maybe check out North East Shooters.
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