Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > GENERAL DISCUSSION > General gun discussions
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

General gun discussions This is a place to lounge and discuss firearm related topics with other forum members.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:04 PM
Kopis's Avatar
Kopis Kopis is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 450
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Guns in space

Why do we have guns in space?
Jen Brockman, @jenbrockchalk
2:19 pm on 01/08/2013
August 2005

Spacewalk during STS-114 mission outside the International Space Station (Courtesy: NASA)

Apparently, there are guns in space.

Specifically, there are usually one or two handguns on board the International Space Station, NBC News Space Analyst Jim Oberg reports . The guns belong to the Russians, but “anybody has access to them,” Oberg said.

The guns are described as all-in-one weapons. They can fire rifle or shotgun ammo and simple flares. They have three barrels and a fold-out gadget that can double as a shovel or a machete. It’s kept in an unlocked survival kit.

Oberg reported back in 2008 that NASA keeps the whole gun thing very hush-hush. Back in 1965, Cosmonauts reported rough landings in which they encountered blood-thirsty bears. Apparently they needed the gun for crash landings.

That’s all very cool and interesting, but why do you need a gun in space? Beyond the fact that you’d have a hard time hitting your target, it seems excessive.

I only mention the existence of guns in space because it provides an interesting thought experiment about the larger gun control issue we have here on Earth. A gun on the Space Station could stop a crazed cosmonaut. But it could just as easily become the weapon of choice for that same crazed cosmonaut.

Here’s the test: If you’re isolated with just a handful of people, with no access to 9-1-1, who would you want to have access to a gun? Would it be better if NO ONE had a gun?

Do you really think guns are falling into the right hands when we arm teachers and administrators at elementary schools across the country? Is it worth the risk?





http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/01/08/why-d...guns-in-space/
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:47 PM
winnre's Avatar
winnre winnre is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: IE, Southern CA
Posts: 9,225
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

What if your astronaut buddy turned into a zombie and wanted to eat your brains?


And as for guns in the wrong hands, they are not "falling." They are not kept secured by their owners and are most likely stolen.
__________________
"If Jesus had a gun he would be alive today"-Homer Simpson

Last edited by winnre; 01-08-2013 at 12:50 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:49 PM
hermosabeach's Avatar
hermosabeach hermosabeach is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,819
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Your signature line says it all
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:50 PM
PsychGuy274's Avatar
PsychGuy274 PsychGuy274 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,289
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

There's no reason to have a gun in space...that's why we have 911.
__________________
I am a law enforcement officer in the state of Colorado. Nothing I post is legal advice of any kind.

CLICK HERE for a San Diego County WIN!

CLICK HERE to read my research review on the fight-or-flight response and its application to firearm training
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:51 PM
ElvenSoul's Avatar
ElvenSoul ElvenSoul is offline
Free at Last!
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: TEXAS!
Posts: 13,935
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Russians had a Triple Barrel Space Gun
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-08-2013, 1:03 PM
Kopis's Avatar
Kopis Kopis is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 450
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvenSoul View Post
Russians had a Triple Barrel Space Gun
We've had an Arms Race with Russia. We've had a Space Race with Russia. Looks like it's time for a Space Arms Race. I'm nominating the ZF-1 as a starting point.

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-08-2013, 1:43 PM
calif 15-22's Avatar
calif 15-22 calif 15-22 is offline
Paid Government Shill
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 4,276
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

They have guns on the Space Station because the 2A has no earthly boundries Sorry couldn't resist

On a more scientific note:
Would you hear a gun shot in space??
Would a bullet travel any faster in space??
Which has better astronaut stopping power 9mm or .45?? (this one was just for fun)
__________________
I will no longer respond to posts where I am quoted. It's a matter of insanity!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
It's one thing to question everything . . . It's entirely another thing to reject simple, rational explanations in favor of ever more fantastic and far reaching explanations because you've decided the government cannot be trusted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
Anyone who says the American dream requires a specific pay range doesn't understand the meaning of the American dream
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-08-2013, 2:25 PM
Sennasixty8 Sennasixty8 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: East Bay Area
Posts: 470
iTrader: 51 / 100%
Default

I secondly nominate the ZF-1, Good enuf for Gary Oldman aka ZORG and friends.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-08-2013, 2:43 PM
myk's Avatar
myk myk is offline
Veteran Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sun Diego
Posts: 4,543
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

What the hell are we supposed to use man, harsh language?
__________________
Crashing gun control rallies is fun, but absolutely necessary, anywhere and everywhere they take place so that the truth about guns and violence can be heard:http://mykranili.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-08-2013, 2:51 PM
kama3's Avatar
kama3 kama3 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 30
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by myk View Post
What the hell are we supposed to use man, harsh language?
angry-worded letters.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-08-2013, 3:05 PM
Armed24-7's Avatar
Armed24-7 Armed24-7 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 268
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by myk View Post
What the hell are we supposed to use man, harsh language?
Verbal judo LOL...see video below!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqHDgde9Nkw&sns=em
__________________

"If you expect logic associated with California law, it will only make your head hurt.." - Ron-Solo, 2013

Last edited by Armed24-7; 01-08-2013 at 3:27 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-08-2013, 3:20 PM
USACracer's Avatar
USACracer USACracer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 124
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

I want a stab at the basic physics,
As I understand it, the Gun on the space station is the same as on earth, but without gravity, however i was thinking about spacewalk shooting, and pretty sure youre average gun would function normally.

It's the round I'd worry about, the case will have some O2 inside for ignition and I think the primer would work fine, but it's the fact that the bullet may not make a 100% seal to the case, the vacuum may pull apart the round due to the air inside....

Anyways, IF fired from spaceman into "empty" space, the bullet should go forever with no loss in speed unless it encounters the gravity of another object, or hits it.

What happens if you shoot into a black hole??? hmmm, infinitely massive tiny bullet?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-08-2013, 3:22 PM
realmswalker realmswalker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 463
iTrader: 26 / 100%
Default

Haven't you seen Armageddon! People go nuts in space, and someone might have to get put down!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-08-2013, 3:40 PM
Calgunner739's Avatar
Calgunner739 Calgunner739 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Glorious Democratic People's Republic of Kalifornia
Posts: 647
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
We've had an Arms Race with Russia. We've had a Space Race with Russia. Looks like it's time for a Space Arms Race. I'm nominating the ZF-1 as a starting point.

The ZF-1.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-08-2013, 3:45 PM
Calgunner739's Avatar
Calgunner739 Calgunner739 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Glorious Democratic People's Republic of Kalifornia
Posts: 647
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by USACracer View Post
I want a stab at the basic physics,
As I understand it, the Gun on the space station is the same as on earth, but without gravity, however i was thinking about spacewalk shooting, and pretty sure youre average gun would function normally.

It's the round I'd worry about, the case will have some O2 inside for ignition and I think the primer would work fine, but it's the fact that the bullet may not make a 100% seal to the case, the vacuum may pull apart the round due to the air inside....

Anyways, IF fired from spaceman into "empty" space, the bullet should go forever with no loss in speed unless it encounters the gravity of another object, or hits it.

What happens if you shoot into a black hole??? hmmm, infinitely massive tiny bullet?
The smokeless powder supposedly has an oxidizing agent in it. So it would shoot in space. This is assuming the lack of pressure doesn't pull the case open or the heat from the sun on one side doesn't ignite the cartridge. The bullet would eventually collide with something; the distance between matter in space is massive, but in any direction there will be something.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-08-2013, 4:01 PM
winnre's Avatar
winnre winnre is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: IE, Southern CA
Posts: 9,225
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

And if you shot the gun while floating, you'd be pushed backwards. And not stop.
__________________
"If Jesus had a gun he would be alive today"-Homer Simpson
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-08-2013, 4:19 PM
Grumpyoldretiredcop's Avatar
Grumpyoldretiredcop Grumpyoldretiredcop is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Escape tunnel successful!
Posts: 5,719
iTrader: 117 / 100%
Default

So, no one has noticed that the firearm is in a survival kit, intended to be used if needed after landing? After all, one can't guarantee where one's Soyuz will touch down. Might be in the middle of Siberia... and you'd want a gun then.
__________________
I'm retired. That's right, retired. I don't want to hear about the cop who stopped you today or how you didn't think you should get a ticket. That just makes me grumpy!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-08-2013, 4:33 PM
Chaos47's Avatar
Chaos47 Chaos47 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Inland Empire
Posts: 6,227
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

Wow that is a poorly written article.

The Russians have had guns in space for a long time.
While most of them are designed for use as survival weapons after landings, they did have auto cannons on their Salyut 3 Almaz space station that was meant for use in space.

The triple barrel pistol in question:
TP-82
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TP-82




Auto Cannon:
Nudelman-Rikhter NR-23


Quote:
The Salyut 3 station was equipped with a "self-defence" gun, which had been designed for use aboard the station, and whose design is attributed to Nudelman.[1] Some accounts claim the station was equipped with a Nudelman-Rikhter "Vulkan" gun, which was a variant of the 23 mm Nudelmann aircraft cannon, or possibly a Nudelmann NR-30 30 mm gun.[11] These claims have reportedly been verified by Pavel Popovich, who had visited the station in orbit, as Commander of Soyuz 14.[11] Due to potential shaking of the station, in-orbit tests of the weapon with cosmonauts in the station were ruled out.[1] The gun was fixed to the station in such a way that the only way to aim would have been to change the orientation of the entire station.[1][11] Following the last manned mission to the station, the gun was commanded by the ground to be fired; some sources say it was fired to depletion,[11] while other sources say three test firings took place during the Salyut 3 mission.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salyut_3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almaz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudelman-Rikhter_NR-23
__________________
The above is not legal advice. It is just something you read from some dude on the internet. It does not reflect the opinion of Calguns.net. If it seems rude it was probably meant to read sarcastically.

Marlin 795 MEGATHREAD Part Deuce
Featureless Rifle Build Guide - Now over 100 Muzzle Devices!

Last edited by Chaos47; 01-08-2013 at 4:40 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-08-2013, 4:41 PM
Kopis's Avatar
Kopis Kopis is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 450
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
The detachable buttstock was also a machete that came with a canvas sheath.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-08-2013, 4:43 PM
Code's Avatar
Code Code is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 11
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by calif 15-22 View Post
They have guns on the Space Station because the 2A has no earthly boundries Sorry couldn't resist

On a more scientific note:
Would a bullet travel any faster in space??
Fires can't burn in the oxygen-free vacuum of space, but guns can shoot. Modern ammo contains its own oxidizer, a chemical that will trigger the explosion of gunpowder, and thus the firing of a bullet, wherever you are in the universe. No atmospheric oxygen required.

The only difference between pulling the trigger on Earth and in space is the shape of the resulting smoke trail. In space, it would be an expanding sphere of smoke from the tip of the barrel.

Imagine you're floating freely in the vacuum between galaxies — just you, your gun and a single bullet. You have two options. You either can spend all of eternity trying to figure out how you got there, or you can shoot the damn cosmos.

If you do the latter, Newton's third law dictates that the force exerted on the bullet will impart an equal and opposite force on the gun, and, because you're holding the gun, you. With very few intergalactic atoms against which to brace yourself, you'll start moving backward (not that you’d have any way of knowing). If the bullet leaves the gun barrel at 1,000 meters per second, you — because you're much more massive than it is — will head the other way at only a few centimeters per Once shot, the bullet will keep going, quite literally, forever. The bullet will never stop, because the universe is expanding faster than the bullet can catch up with any serious amount of mass, to slow it down. (If the universe weren't expanding, then the one or two atoms per cubic centimeter encountered by the bullet in the near-vacuum of space would bring it to a standstill after 10 million light-years.)

Getting down to details, the universe expands at a rate of 73 kilometers per second per megaparsec (about 3 million light-years, or the average distance between galaxies). Matija Cuk, an astronomer with joint appointments at Harvard University and the SETI Institute say that by his calculations, this means matter that is 40,000 to 50,000 light-years away from the bullet would move away from it at about the same speed at which it is travelling, and would thus be forever out of reach. In the entire future of the universe, the bullet will catch up only to atoms that are less than 40,000 or so light-years from the chamber of your gun. Speaking of you, you'll be bobbing through space forever, too.

Guns do actually get carried to space, though not quite to the void between galaxies. For decades, the standard survival pack for Russian cosmonauts has included a gun. Until recently, it wasn't just any gun, but "a deluxe all-in-one weapon with three barrels and a folding stock that doubles as a shovel and contains a swing-out machete," according to space historian James Oberg. The space guns are issued in case the cosmonauts need one back on Earth, so that they can protect themselves if emergency landing of their Soyuz spacecraft has left them deserted in a treacherous region. But still, cosmonauts in theory could shoot their guns before they landed.

So what if, during a spacewalk, a cosmonaut opened fire on Jupiter?

He or she should feel free to shoot from the hip. According to Robert Flack, a physicist at University College London, the enormous gravitational field of Jupiter is likely to suck in a bullet even if it is badly aimed. "Jupiter is so huge, it will capture the bullet and then it will follow a curved path down into the planet," Flack said.

And as it does, it will pick up some serious steam. According to Schultz, if the bullet is shot straight toward Jupiter, the planet's gravity will accelerate the ammo to the eye-popping speed of almost 60 kilometers per second by the time it crosses the gas giant's threshold.

Shooting someone in the back is a cowardly act. In space, "theoretically you could shoot yourself in the back," Schultz said.

You could do it, for example, while in orbit around a planet. Because objects orbiting planets are actually in a constant state of free fall, you have to get the setup just right. You'd have to shoot horizontally at just the right altitude for the bullet to circle the planet and fall back to where it started (you). And you'd also have to consider how much you'll get kicked backwards (and consequently, how much your altitude will change) when you fire.

"The aim has to be perfect," Schultz said.

Such a scenario isn't as absurd as it sounds. In fact, Schultz said scientists at one point were considering setting up such a self-hit in space in order to investigate the effects of high-speed impacts.

However, considering all the math involved, Cuk suggests it might be easier to commit space suicide by standing on a mountain on the moon. "'Shooting yourself in the back' works in principle if you shoot a bullet at horizon from the top of a lunar mountain, at 1600 meters per second or so," he said. He thinks it just might work as long as you adjust your aim to account for lumps and irregularities in the shape of the moon, which would affect the altitude of the bullet as it travels.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-08-2013, 4:45 PM
ptusa ptusa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 863
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Remember, in space no one can hear you scream.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-08-2013, 4:49 PM
winnre's Avatar
winnre winnre is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: IE, Southern CA
Posts: 9,225
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptusa View Post
Remember, in space no one can hear you scream.
Nor do NFA rules apply apparently.
__________________
"If Jesus had a gun he would be alive today"-Homer Simpson
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-09-2013, 2:43 AM
myk's Avatar
myk myk is offline
Veteran Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sun Diego
Posts: 4,543
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptusa View Post
Remember, in space no one can hear you scream.
I was hoping someone would get my Alien(s) reference!
__________________
Crashing gun control rallies is fun, but absolutely necessary, anywhere and everywhere they take place so that the truth about guns and violence can be heard:http://mykranili.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-09-2013, 6:35 AM
Gem1950's Avatar
Gem1950 Gem1950 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,889
iTrader: 160 / 100%
Default

Old News
__________________
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine



"We keep you alive to serve this ship. Row well and live."

"Is that a desert country?" "No; a fat country; fat people." "You are not fat?" "No. I'm different..."
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-09-2013, 6:37 AM
dieselpower's Avatar
dieselpower dieselpower is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ventura
Posts: 10,386
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Its a survival tool... its only in space because that's where the people are. Its like you are asking why does a person flying in a plane need a floatation device. Please tell me you are not this stupid.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-09-2013, 7:44 AM
Spaceghost Spaceghost is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 5,516
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

I did, but I am late to the party. "Good thing I keep this for close encounters."


[/B][/B]
Quote:
Originally Posted by myk View Post
I was hoping someone would get my Alien(s) reference!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-09-2013, 7:45 AM
Spaceghost Spaceghost is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 5,516
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Nice post Code. Very informative.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:52 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.