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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #121  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:25 AM
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i am still surprised why the least effective form of voicing and fixing our gov't is still the most popular.

voting and winning battles in court are the our best bet gentlemen.
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  #122  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:30 AM
Sanchanim Sanchanim is offline
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Originally Posted by bob7122 View Post
i am still surprised why the least effective form of voicing and fixing our gov't is still the most popular.

voting and winning battles in court are the our best bet gentlemen.
You are right Bob, but look how that turned out for us with the new liberal super majority.
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  #123  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:31 AM
Sanchanim Sanchanim is offline
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@Hoffmang, and Citadel,
First off I am simply the organizer for the California state rally. The whole idea popped up on facebook and the date and time was already set by the time I was brought in. Right or wrong I am working with what I have. Sure I would love it if we have pro gun politicians and rock stars who can come and speak.
The flyer was put up here, and is being put up in gun shops. We are not handing them out on street corners. If that was the case then we would change what it looks like and how it was being marketed. You are correct, I am not ignorant in that sense, but this was put together to be stuck on the wall of a gun shop, or shared amongst gun owners.. I get what you are trying to say, but we have not branched out beyond the original core group. If we have follow up rallies then we could potentially reach out to grasp a full range of constitutional issues.
I am not enamoured with much of anything. In fact I wish i had more time, more resources. I am one guy who is going on the radio, posting in places like CalGuns, pulling permits, trying to get a mic, mic stand and speakers for our speakers. I don't have funds to simply rent things...
Like Vanhanhner stated. I would have loved to had a chance to work with folks who have resources where we could take the time to do things, have group meetings review our strategies. I get that.
To be honest, and nothing against the SAF or anyone, the best they could come up with is Gun appreciation day! Seriously???
I am not saying it is a bad thing, but really they are asking for you to go to your local gun shop and buy something, cough cough, have they been to a local gun shop lately??
They look like they are going out of business, there is nothing left on the shelves and what is there is stuff I don't need anyways!
They wanted to do this to make a point to the new administration? What do you think the 3 hour wait times are to get into gun shows are???
CalGuns, the SAF, NRA, none of them have stepped up to the plate to organize, and that is why we are loosing this battle. I am not saying that they don't do hard work, but lets be clear...
The citizen disarmament groups are organized, with funding and they rally the individual man. Besides spam and lots of asking for more money, to be honest I don't see the NRA doing that much for me.
You are right this could be a big flop. But we are gaining more and more steam here, coming into the final stretch. I am scared to death it will be a flop. I am not under any grand illusions. I am having trouble sleeping at night because I want this to be a success. If you want to help design alternate flyers, make suggestions for getting the word out please do.. I was asked to help out on a plan already in motion. It might not be the perfect or best plan, but it is what we have.. I am trying my best, and hopefully wont shoot myself in the foot in the process.
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  #124  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:47 AM
Sanchanim Sanchanim is offline
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Originally Posted by G-Man WC View Post
I have not read all of the posts in this thread.
Vanhahner444@hotmail.com, While I hope you mean well and your intentions genuine
on this urgent matter I'll ask the question that I'm not sure anyone has asked!
Who are you and with so few posts here on CG's why should the CG crowd 2A crowd buy into this lastminute unorganized protest/march? I salute you coming forward and I'm not saying your an anti Confederate, but we've had our share of trolls and moles.
I know it puts me on the fence in these turbulent times. Please understand where I'm coming from.
I'm not on Facebook or Twitter and can looking into or research someone's life and intrests.
-g
@ G-Man, you certainly don't have to buy into anything. I personally contribute to www.thetruthaboutguns.com. I am not much active in other places. The Gun Control=More Crime group sprang up rather late. I admit it..

I was interested and was asked to lead the group for California.
We know darn well that these are scary times. My push is going to be to discuss guns, and crime. Give stats and facts on what our administration wants to do.

I don't know if Gene read any of the legislation that was being rammed through committee in Illinois. It was garbage. I mean my 13 year old could have written something better than that. And that in a nut shell is what scares me.

This administration and it's pundits are pushing to do something RIGHT NOW! They aren't taking the time to sit and really analyze the issue. If they did they would realize that the tragedy that was Connecticut was rare, extremely rare.. But they are using the emotion and timing to push their agenda. They would also realize that pushing through a new AWB will do nothing. But they want to show they are doing something, anything...

So if Gene wants to speak or have a speaker come to Sacramento we would be excited. It might be a small rally, but we want to get the right message out. We want to bring it to the forethought of those who might simply think it is not important. Sure they probably won't be present at the rally, but if we get media coverage, etc. It will be a starting point.
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  #125  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:00 AM
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I trust and respect Genes judgement when it comes to preserving our rights. Because of this, I will not consider attending this event.
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  #126  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
Substituting one extreme image for another is not compromise. Neither appeals to the kinds of people that can actually help gun owners in California. (Not that you would know who they might be anyway.)



Clever edit. You managed to crop out the meat of my comment. Do you really think that gunowners alone are sufficient to fight this battle when the state legislature is dominated with a 2/3rd democrat majority? Are they the only ones who will hear our call? You dont know, because you didnt try to connect with anyone else.
CitaDel relax you know I was joking right hence the rolyeyes??

You are right with a 2/3 majority we are in for a rough ride of things.
One of the issues I have noticed, and this is simply my observations. You have gun owners. They generally know the difference between an AR-15 and an AK-47. They know why you might like a revolver and not a semi automatic. They know what a semi automatic is.
Then you have your non gun owner. If it is black it is bad, semi auto and full auto are the same thing. That AR-15 my lord you can't hunt with that, that is only for killing children.

Now stop shaking your head because I know you are!!!
This is a blanket statement. Sure not everyone is like this, not by a long shot, but...... Non gun owners have no skin in the game, and many are misinformed. they have been drinking the coolaid from the MAIG, and Brady Campaign for way to long. I am not calling them stupid.
The real challenge is to educate them with facts. Get them to question what they have been spoon fed for so long. Then we can turn some of them around. Yet we will still have folks like Leland Yee. that man if he actually saw a semi automatic sporting rifle would probably turn and run screaming like a little school girl. No amount of education or knowledge will get him to change his position.

At that point we have guys like Gene that run CalGuns. They have to come in after the garbage bills are made law to fight for us. That takes months, even years. This rally which I am not in control of was setup to be specific regarding one thing, or at least focused on the specific area of gun legislation.
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  #127  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:05 AM
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Is there another way to get information and get involved besides FaceBook? I have an FB account but I will not use it anymore because I don't support that creep Zuckerberg and his anti-gun buddies.

I wish supporters of 2A rights would stop supporting these anti-gun internet creeps by using their products.
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  #128  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:16 AM
Sanchanim Sanchanim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottsBad View Post
Is there another way to get information and get involved besides FaceBook? I have an FB account but I will not use it anymore because I don't support that creep Zuckerberg and his anti-gun buddies.

I wish supporters of 2A rights would stop supporting these anti-gun internet creeps by using their products.
I believe they are trying to setup a regular web page, but running into a few issues. If would like to attend simply email me. This is grass roots. We don't have money, or connections, or fancy suits. I wish we did but we didn't.

We are starting to get air play and promotions. Rush Limbauge, yeah I know, nut case just gave the pitch and will do so through the 19th. I am hoping we can get others to advertise and pitch the event as well.

In all probability I will come back here on the 20th with my tail between my legs as a complete failure. I will tell Gene he was right.
But at least I will know I gave it my all. our message will be one of unity, and education. This is not a get out there and grand stand or point fingers. My hope is folks will take the time to listen.
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  #129  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal326 View Post
I trust and respect Genes judgement when it comes to preserving our rights. Because of this, I will not consider attending this event.
SoCal that is your right, and I respect that. You will be missed.
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  #130  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:20 AM
vanhahner444@hotmail.com vanhahner444@hotmail.com is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Man WC View Post
I have not read all of the posts in this thread.
Vanhahner444@hotmail.com, While I hope you mean well and your intentions genuine
on this urgent matter I'll ask the question that I'm not sure anyone has asked!
Who are you and with so few posts here on CG's why should the CG crowd 2A crowd buy into this lastminute unorganized protest/march? I salute you coming forward and I'm not saying your an anti Confederate, but we've had our share of trolls and moles.
I know it puts me on the fence in these turbulent times. Please understand where I'm coming from.
I'm not on Facebook or Twitter and can looking into or research someone's life and intrests.
-g

Not at all sir, if you were to type in your Google search vanhahner there are some 40 pages of my activity on the net.

Along with that, I'm the owner and founder of rifle-company.com which is in it's eight year. ( small forum dedicated to battle rifles) I'm also a member of
TeamM14/FALFiles/Marlin Firearms and Calguns.

I'm a retired Marine sergeant , who was a 3rd Marine Regimental Scout Sniper in Viet-Nam. My greatest achievement, is Being married to the same woman for 43 years and raising three wonderful kids.


As to
Quote:
why should the CG crowd 2A crowd buy into this lastminute unorganized protest/march?
Simply this:


"The Bill of Rights is the collective name for the first ten amendments to the United States Constitution. These limitations guarantee to protect the natural rights of liberty and property. They guarantee a number of personal freedoms, like freedom of speech and religion and the right to assemble , but if you remove or limit the Second Amendment to a state of non effectiveness, then you lose the guarantee and all other amendments become null and void, simply because “We the People” will lose our power of enforcing the guarantee, when they too are taken away."

Last edited by vanhahner444@hotmail.com; 01-08-2013 at 11:42 AM..
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  #131  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:49 AM
Sanchanim Sanchanim is offline
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Originally Posted by vanhahner444@hotmail.com View Post
Not at all sir, if you were to type in your Google search vanhahner there are some 40 pages of my activity on the net.

Along with that, I'm the owner and founder of rifle-company.com which is in it's eight year. ( small forum dedicated to battle rifles) I'm also a member of
TeamM14/FALFiles/Marlin Firearms and Calguns.

I'm a retired Marine sergeant , who was a 3rd Marine Regimental Scout Sniper in Viet-Nam. My greatest achievement, is Being married to the same woman for 43 years and raising three wonderful kids.
43 YEARS!!! Wow now that is an accomplishment these days!!

To that end Many have stated that the response has been very welcoming. Words like it's about time, or other such phrases were used.

I respect Gene and what CalGuns does, but people need to rally together on this. We need to be proactive, not reactive. I am not blaming anyone, but like DiFi and friends have said now is the time to disarm citizens, now is the time to promote our cause and go on the offensive.

Gun owners in America a re unique. We come from all walks of life. We are rich, poor, gay, straight, Jews, Christians, Muslims, and just about every color under the rainbow. There is one single bond for us, and it is a pretty great one.
We are Americans...
Our rights and freedoms reaffirmed under the constitution and bill of rights allows us to remain freemen. We are inclusive within our community and tolerant. Tolerant to the point of remaining silent while other spread misinformation about us. We can not remain silent any longer.
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  #132  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhahner444@hotmail.com View Post
Like any good book, literary publishers will tell you that the first page must have a "hook", something that will snag the reader's attention into turning the next page.
Sanchanim flyer is targeted for grabbing the attention of gun owners, posting anything less might have the same effect as hanging a flyer for a garage sale.

If you look at 90 percent the retail gun magazines on the rack, they will usually sport some type of a AR configuration on the cover (can you guess why?). Now if the whole AR thing scares you then you really need to consider what this protest is all about, because the main focus will be about the government taking away our Assault weapon and high capacity magazines and anything else that looks evil on a nation wide scale.
It's a bad design.

By looking at the poster I have no idea what the event will consist of. What is "Guns Across America" and "gun control = more crime?" I should know from the headlines of the poster about what's going to take place and who is in charge.

The graphic of the AR is hideous. Off the top of my head some crossed muskets and/or an American flag with a liberty theme would have been far more appropriate.
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  #133  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:18 PM
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Better to carry your iPhone and film any disruptive acts. It is amazing how the media loves cell phone footage. Look at the middle east protests. Also Sac PD/Highway Patrol will use the footage to prosecute any offenders.
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  #134  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:23 PM
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The confrontation in this thread reminds me of a young boy wanting to build a soap box to race in the derby that would take place the following Saturday. Asking his dad for help, He shows his dad the plan, but his father says the design won't work and walks away wishing him well.
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  #135  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
It's a bad design.

By looking at the poster I have no idea what the event will consist of. What is "Guns Across America" and "gun control = more crime?" I should know from the headlines of the poster about what's going to take place and who is in charge.

The graphic of the AR is hideous. Off the top of my head some crossed muskets and/or an American flag with a liberty theme would have been far more appropriate.
I agree, I think there could be much better graphics out there.
I was trying to find a black and white type simple image as apposed to color or a photograph. The reasoning is that I wanted something that could be printed on a black and white ink jet or laser printer and look close to original as hideous as that is. Now to that end I didn't make make up a full compliment of images, i.e. color high res low res etc.. This was done over a lunch break, and it was based off of a previous design which used a picture, not a low res image.

If anyone has any ideas, chime in please...
Gun Control=More Crime is the group. It is also the idea.
Guns Across America is the event. Those states which allow an encourage OC are doing so. Please before you freak this is with the express permission of the Sheriff overseeing the event. They don't panic like they do here in California.. Heck in one area there will be a large contingent of LEO's attending the rally themselves!

We are in communication with the appropriate authorities, as well as obtaining permits so everything is lawful.

I do agree it is generic. But then again this was something I put together that other organizers can then supplement their own information for location and time etc.
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  #136  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkennedy009 View Post
Better to carry your iPhone and film any disruptive acts. It is amazing how the media loves cell phone footage. Look at the middle east protests. Also Sac PD/Highway Patrol will use the footage to prosecute any offenders.
Well if you plan on being there, bring a descent video camera..

The other thing we need to keep in mind, is we gun owners generally respect and hold our law enforcement officers in high regard. If anything any LEO's on hand will be there to protect us from the other nut jobs that might show up.

Now how do I get Tom Selleck and Clint Eastwood to show up???
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  #137  
Old 01-08-2013, 1:05 PM
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Originally Posted by vanhahner444@hotmail.com View Post
The confrontation in this thread reminds me of a young boy wanting to build a soap box to race in the derby that would take place the following Saturday. Asking his dad for help, He shows his dad the plan, but his father says the design won't work and walks away wishing him well.
I am sure that when David went off to face Goliath, people thought he was a goner too...

I get Gene's concern I really do. I remember those open carry protests where they would show up en mass to a Starbucks or something.

Just like when the NRA had their news conference. His statement regarding armed teachers was not new, revolutionary or without precedent. Unfortunately he did not mention the fact that Barbara Boxer wants governors the right to have National Guard troops in school, or that Bill Clinton put a program in place to put armed guards in school following the Columbine tragedy. He also did not mention the success of the Israeli government with putting armed teachers and security in their schools. That was done by a law requiring it, not as a free choice option.

The media simply lambasted Wayne LaPierre as crazy and out of touch. Why is that? How can we present the ideas as not crazy and back them up with facts.
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  #138  
Old 01-08-2013, 1:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dantedamean View Post
Ya but unfortunately we don't want to give the antis any more ammo to use against us.

Think of this like getting a new stray dog. You don't want to just charge at him and give him a big bear hug, your going to get bit. You need to let him sniff your had for a bit then pet him on the head.

We show up in full tac gear, rifles in hand, well scare off the people we need to bring to our side. However we show up, look and act like normal people here to educate and voice our opinion, we will win over a lot more people.
+1, agreed. Most people are not going to understand the purpose of having a gun. Let those who want to know, be educated, then those who are against, let our actions speak for themselves, which means that (hoping) everyone who owns piece, up their game and practice more with their firearm for when it's time to act, people with see a need to protect themselves and others they love. Definitely, we are not looking to scare people, I think signs, some ccl's, and kind offers to teach and i think people will be more receptive to that.
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  #139  
Old 01-08-2013, 1:49 PM
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Originally Posted by M@chete View Post
+1, agreed. Most people are not going to understand the purpose of having a gun. Let those who want to know, be educated, then those who are against, let our actions speak for themselves, which means that (hoping) everyone who owns piece, up their game and practice more with their firearm for when it's time to act, people with see a need to protect themselves and others they love. Definitely, we are not looking to scare people, I think signs, some ccl's, and kind offers to teach and i think people will be more receptive to that.
Most people don't know the AR and AK platforms are over half a century old!
The idea of using expanding gas to make a rifle semi automatic is older than that. We need to try and reach out to people to educate them. Not brainwash them. If they don't like guns, fine, but right now in every state in the country our politicians are acting on the feeling of SOMETHING MUST BE DONE! That line of thinking regardless of what law or legislation we are talking about is the wrong attitude to take.
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  #140  
Old 01-08-2013, 2:22 PM
Excelsior Excelsior is offline
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Originally Posted by vanhahner444@hotmail.com View Post
The confrontation in this thread reminds me of a young boy wanting to build a soap box to race in the derby that would take place the following Saturday. Asking his dad for help, He shows his dad the plan, but his father says the design won't work and walks away wishing him well.
I'm not so sure about that. One week from the day of your event I will be marching with 50K+ others down Market Street in SF for the annual Pro-Life March for Life West Coast.

One of the reasons I do it each year is that the event includes everyone -- pro-life families, college kids, high school and middle school groups, clerics, the elderly, people of absolutely all backgrounds. It is incredibly positive and at this point, rather awesome.

We march right through the belly of the beast like Sherman through Georgia but we do it with smiles and prayers. We don't do it with anger, profanity, confrontation and horrid graphics of aborted babies. You should experience both locals and tourists cheering us on from the sidewalks. The number of pro-abortion activists is minuscule in comparison.

Is your event reaching out to ALL or is it focused on bitter gunnies just itching to put themselves on display? I ask this in all sincerity because I think it's something you really need to ask yourselves.
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Last edited by Excelsior; 01-08-2013 at 2:25 PM..
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  #141  
Old 01-08-2013, 2:25 PM
vanhahner444@hotmail.com vanhahner444@hotmail.com is offline
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What is the measurement of success ?

Converting the majority of California Legislators to pro gun ? Not going to happen !

Converting one California Legislators ? Probably not.

Success of the rally in my opinion would be:

To stress to all gun owners at the rally and the media on the importance of not diminishing or castrating the bill of rights or infringing on the law abiding citizen to defend his family and the Constitution by these handouts:


Quote:
Concerning the issue of assault weapons and high capacity magazines and curtailing their use, I would like to remind you of their purpose.
The purpose of having citizens armed with paramilitary weapons is to allow them to engage in paramilitary actions, for you see, there is no legitimate exception to the Second Amendment for military-style weapons, because military-style weapons are precisely what the Second Amendment guarantees in opposing enemies foreign and domestic and against disorder and tyranny within our country.

Quote:
The Bill of Rights is the collective name for the first ten amendments to the United States Constitution. These limitations guarantee to protect the natural rights of liberty and property. They guarantee a number of personal freedoms, like freedom of speech and religion and the right to assemble , but if you remove or limit the Second Amendment to a state of non effectiveness, then you lose the guarantee and all other amendments become null and void, simply because “We the People” will lose our power of enforcing the guarantee, when they too are taken away.
If we can convey the importance of these two ideals to the S/A people in accordance with responding to their legislators and get one media at the event to print or report our message , then I would consider my trip to the rally worth while!
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  #142  
Old 01-08-2013, 2:42 PM
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Originally Posted by strangerdude View Post
Anyone attending this should keep a look out for agent provocateurs, these are undercover cops that make peaceful protest become violent.
More like mad FEDs, ... why the hell you think 'they' make you register simply to attend? Watched some movie the other night about how an undercover FED Rat entrapped two young adults into making firey cocktails and they both ended up getting charged with terror type **** … I personally don’t think the senator gives a ****ing **** about anything, except for what he wants. He will probably be blaring Chinese music in his office, and not giving a **** laughing at anyone who attends … No offense to Chinese people who don’t want to take your 2A.
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  #143  
Old 01-08-2013, 2:52 PM
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I bet if people started open carrying their rifles, that would get outlawed quite quickly as well (hence, no open pistol carry) ... Then again, what the hell is the point in having an unloaded firearm to protect yourself (and loved ones) with? LoL, can't even have a damn baionet in Cali ... Guess you could chuck the seven pound heap of metal at the perpentrator? ... Oh, not to mention basically NO ONE gets a CCW unless they are connected with the Sheriff ... So, its bascially a no CCW state either. To add, all one needs to do is request if an idividual has firearms, and the .gov with tell 'them'.
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  #144  
Old 01-08-2013, 3:22 PM
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@SANCHANIM
Can you give us an update on any media personalities who have comfirmed attendance? I'll PM you links to a couple AM radio personalities here in SD that are pro-gun. Rick Roberts in particular has traveled to the capital several times. I think the last was to DC for the Fast and Furious hearings.
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  #145  
Old 01-08-2013, 3:22 PM
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@SANCHANIM
Can you give us an update on any media personalities who have comfirmed attendance? I'll PM you links to a couple AM radio personalities here in SD that are pro-gun. Rick Roberts in particular has traveled to the capital several times. I think the last was to DC for the Fast and Furious hearings.
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  #146  
Old 01-08-2013, 3:43 PM
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NBC Tuesday, Jan 8, 2013


California assembly member Nancy Skinner answered that call with a proposal to restrict ammunition sales in the state.

“2,800 people in California were killed last year by gunfire," Skinner said. "It is easier to buy bullets than cough medicine or alcohol. It should not be that easy. We need to have much more scrutiny when it comes to the purchase of guns."

Monday she unveiled Assembly Bill 48. It would require bullet buyers to show identification. It would also require ammunition dealers to be licensed and report all sales to the department of justice.

Emmeryville police chief Ken James supports the tighter restrictions.

”Right now you can buy bullets in any store and the sale is not recorded”, James said. "Gun violence will continue unless we control the sale of bullets."

Oakland mayor Jean Quan also said she supports the bill and that Oakland has seen too much gun violence and the changes may help.
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Old 01-08-2013, 4:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
I'm not so sure about that. One week from the day of your event I will be marching with 50K+ others down Market Street in SF for the annual Pro-Life March for Life West Coast.

One of the reasons I do it each year is that the event includes everyone -- pro-life families, college kids, high school and middle school groups, clerics, the elderly, people of absolutely all backgrounds. It is incredibly positive and at this point, rather awesome.

We march right through the belly of the beast like Sherman through Georgia but we do it with smiles and prayers. We don't do it with anger, profanity, confrontation and horrid graphics of aborted babies. You should experience both locals and tourists cheering us on from the sidewalks. The number of pro-abortion activists is minuscule in comparison.

Is your event reaching out to ALL or is it focused on bitter gunnies just itching to put themselves on display? I ask this in all sincerity because I think it's something you really need to ask yourselves.
I agree, in that we are trying to make this a family event. Many have emailed me saying they are bringing their kids and wives, or husbands as it were.
This is not some stomping or screaming rally. This needs to be one of hope and change.. Gosh I just cringed writing that...
My goal of this as some have stated to to try and get the media to report it. We need people to attend. To be honest this also has to do with education of us! The gun owners of America. We have sat here and let the bloody t-shirt waving gun control groups frame the argument in such a way that people are willing from an emotional level to simply go right along with their ideas.
So we need to start being heard. Maybe I won't get 10,000 attendees, or have major news coverage break in on CNN. It would be nice, but the reality is we need to provide information and ideas addressing these tragedies which support our ideals. We can't be threatening, or demand much of anything. Remember on the state level we are behind the eight ball. On the federal level we have only the GOP majority in the house to save us. If the administration uses an executive order to implement something, it will get ugly, and Gene and others will have their work cut out for them.
I spent many an hour explaining to my anti gun parents about what the second amendment is. I have also had to teach them a little bit of history about firearms and their technology. Now they are not life time NRA members, far from it, but they certainly have a better understanding about things. They also are able to see through a but of the rhetoric of the citizen disarmament groups now. That to me is a success.
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Old 01-08-2013, 4:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Blake760 View Post
@SANCHANIM
Can you give us an update on any media personalities who have comfirmed attendance? I'll PM you links to a couple AM radio personalities here in SD that are pro-gun. Rick Roberts in particular has traveled to the capital several times. I think the last was to DC for the Fast and Furious hearings.
I only have Wes Host agreeing to be there at the moment.
Working on the links you sent me as well.
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  #149  
Old 01-08-2013, 4:15 PM
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Originally Posted by vanhahner444@hotmail.com View Post
NBC Tuesday, Jan 8, 2013


California assembly member Nancy Skinner answered that call with a proposal to restrict ammunition sales in the state.

“2,800 people in California were killed last year by gunfire," Skinner said. "It is easier to buy bullets than cough medicine or alcohol. It should not be that easy. We need to have much more scrutiny when it comes to the purchase of guns."

Monday she unveiled Assembly Bill 48. It would require bullet buyers to show identification. It would also require ammunition dealers to be licensed and report all sales to the department of justice.

Emmeryville police chief Ken James supports the tighter restrictions.

”Right now you can buy bullets in any store and the sale is not recorded”, James said. "Gun violence will continue unless we control the sale of bullets."

Oakland mayor Jean Quan also said she supports the bill and that Oakland has seen too much gun violence and the changes may help.
Please post a link to the bill text or announcement if you have it, I will get the word out ASAP.
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  #150  
Old 01-08-2013, 5:55 PM
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At a time where our state legislature is not dominated by a democrat 2/3rd majority in both chambers. At a time when we are not awaiting the rulings in a pending court cases. At a time not immediately after a nationally publicized mass shooting event that has instigated not only local and state legislative remedies, but a Federal ban being advanced by our own Senator. I would say the time to put a new face on gun ownership is when gun owners have the ability to drive the dialogue, not to be the subject of it.





Oh. So, because I disagree with your desire to shake a sign at the Capitol, my presense at a pro-gun website must be suspect? Please enlighten me, how was SB249 stopped without a crowd of angry gunowners storming the Capitol steps? Where were the sign wavers then? Were they holding up their sign at Leland Yee's presser (ALA 'Code Pink' during Wayne LaPierre's NRA press conference)? Nope. They were tearing up the phones and fax lines.

I will tell you what I am doing here. I'm herding cats. I'm trying to get them to think before they act and trying to make sure they dont sh*t in the sandbox.

Yes, now is the time to take action, but too many overestimate the effectiveness of free speech protests inside enemy territory where the media, law enforcement and the legislature look at gunowners as a loony, insignificant, and impotent political faction. Our time, resources, and money are better spent on doing things that are proven to get results- not things that get you ridiculed on the evening news or make you feel better for waving a flag in defiance of an opponent that thinks nothing of you.
I think there is validity to both sides here, but why do you think the NRA is such a huge target??? Because they are such a huge success! Calguns and the SAF are equally successful but aren't on the national stage. I respect your protest and admire the enthusiasm. My 2 cents says to donate to NRA, CGF or SAF.

The people who really make decisions in this country don't have to protest, they get lawmakers to do what they want the old fashioned way. Neither do we, donate to one of the above organizations.
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  #151  
Old 01-08-2013, 5:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
At a time where our state legislature is not dominated by a democrat 2/3rd majority in both chambers. At a time when we are not awaiting the rulings in a pending court cases. At a time not immediately after a nationally publicized mass shooting event that has instigated not only local and state legislative remedies, but a Federal ban being advanced by our own Senator. I would say the time to put a new face on gun ownership is when gun owners have the ability to drive the dialogue, not to be the subject of it.





Oh. So, because I disagree with your desire to shake a sign at the Capitol, my presense at a pro-gun website must be suspect? Please enlighten me, how was SB249 stopped without a crowd of angry gunowners storming the Capitol steps? Where were the sign wavers then? Were they holding up their sign at Leland Yee's presser (ALA 'Code Pink' during Wayne LaPierre's NRA press conference)? Nope. They were tearing up the phones and fax lines.

I will tell you what I am doing here. I'm herding cats. I'm trying to get them to think before they act and trying to make sure they dont sh*t in the sandbox.

Yes, now is the time to take action, but too many overestimate the effectiveness of free speech protests inside enemy territory where the media, law enforcement and the legislature look at gunowners as a loony, insignificant, and impotent political faction. Our time, resources, and money are better spent on doing things that are proven to get results- not things that get you ridiculed on the evening news or make you feel better for waving a flag in defiance of an opponent that thinks nothing of you.
I think there is validity to both sides here, but why do you think the NRA is such a huge target??? Because they are such a huge success! Calguns and the SAF are equally successful but aren't on the national stage. I respect your protest and admire the enthusiasm. My 2 cents says to donate to NRA, CGF or SAF.

The people who really make decisions in this country don't have to protest, they get lawmakers to do what they want the old fashioned way. Neither do we, donate to one of the above organizations.
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  #152  
Old 01-08-2013, 5:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
At a time where our state legislature is not dominated by a democrat 2/3rd majority in both chambers. At a time when we are not awaiting the rulings in a pending court cases. At a time not immediately after a nationally publicized mass shooting event that has instigated not only local and state legislative remedies, but a Federal ban being advanced by our own Senator. I would say the time to put a new face on gun ownership is when gun owners have the ability to drive the dialogue, not to be the subject of it.





Oh. So, because I disagree with your desire to shake a sign at the Capitol, my presense at a pro-gun website must be suspect? Please enlighten me, how was SB249 stopped without a crowd of angry gunowners storming the Capitol steps? Where were the sign wavers then? Were they holding up their sign at Leland Yee's presser (ALA 'Code Pink' during Wayne LaPierre's NRA press conference)? Nope. They were tearing up the phones and fax lines.

I will tell you what I am doing here. I'm herding cats. I'm trying to get them to think before they act and trying to make sure they dont sh*t in the sandbox.

Yes, now is the time to take action, but too many overestimate the effectiveness of free speech protests inside enemy territory where the media, law enforcement and the legislature look at gunowners as a loony, insignificant, and impotent political faction. Our time, resources, and money are better spent on doing things that are proven to get results- not things that get you ridiculed on the evening news or make you feel better for waving a flag in defiance of an opponent that thinks nothing of you.
I think there is validity to both sides here, but why do you think the NRA is such a huge target??? Because they are such a huge success! Calguns and the SAF are equally successful but aren't on the national stage. I respect your protest and admire the enthusiasm. My 2 cents says to donate to NRA, CGF or SAF.

The people who really make decisions in this country don't have to protest, they get lawmakers to do what they want the old fashioned way. Neither do we, donate to one of the above organizations.
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  #153  
Old 01-08-2013, 6:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
At a time where our state legislature is not dominated by a democrat 2/3rd majority in both chambers. At a time when we are not awaiting the rulings in a pending court cases. At a time not immediately after a nationally publicized mass shooting event that has instigated not only local and state legislative remedies, but a Federal ban being advanced by our own Senator. I would say the time to put a new face on gun ownership is when gun owners have the ability to drive the dialogue, not to be the subject of it.





Oh. So, because I disagree with your desire to shake a sign at the Capitol, my presense at a pro-gun website must be suspect? Please enlighten me, how was SB249 stopped without a crowd of angry gunowners storming the Capitol steps? Where were the sign wavers then? Were they holding up their sign at Leland Yee's presser (ALA 'Code Pink' during Wayne LaPierre's NRA press conference)? Nope. They were tearing up the phones and fax lines.

I will tell you what I am doing here. I'm herding cats. I'm trying to get them to think before they act and trying to make sure they dont sh*t in the sandbox.

Yes, now is the time to take action, but too many overestimate the effectiveness of free speech protests inside enemy territory where the media, law enforcement and the legislature look at gunowners as a loony, insignificant, and impotent political faction. Our time, resources, and money are better spent on doing things that are proven to get results- not things that get you ridiculed on the evening news or make you feel better for waving a flag in defiance of an opponent that thinks nothing of you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
At a time where our state legislature is not dominated by a democrat 2/3rd majority in both chambers. At a time when we are not awaiting the rulings in a pending court cases. At a time not immediately after a nationally publicized mass shooting event that has instigated not only local and state legislative remedies, but a Federal ban being advanced by our own Senator. I would say the time to put a new face on gun ownership is when gun owners have the ability to drive the dialogue, not to be the subject of it.





Oh. So, because I disagree with your desire to shake a sign at the Capitol, my presense at a pro-gun website must be suspect? Please enlighten me, how was SB249 stopped without a crowd of angry gunowners storming the Capitol steps? Where were the sign wavers then? Were they holding up their sign at Leland Yee's presser (ALA 'Code Pink' during Wayne LaPierre's NRA press conference)? Nope. They were tearing up the phones and fax lines.

I will tell you what I am doing here. I'm herding cats. I'm trying to get them to think before they act and trying to make sure they dont sh*t in the sandbox.

Yes, now is the time to take action, but too many overestimate the effectiveness of free speech protests inside enemy territory where the media, law enforcement and the legislature look at gunowners as a loony, insignificant, and impotent political faction. Our time, resources, and money are better spent on doing things that are proven to get results- not things that get you ridiculed on the evening news or make you feel better for waving a flag in defiance of an opponent that thinks nothing of you.
I think there is validity to both sides here, but why do you think the NRA is such a huge target??? Because they are such a huge success! Calguns and the SAF are equally successful but aren't on the national stage. I respect your protest and admire the enthusiasm. My 2 cents says to donate to NRA, CGF or SAF.

The people who really make decisions in this country don't have to protest, they get lawmakers to do what they want the old fashioned way. Neither do we, donate to one of the above organizations.
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  #154  
Old 01-08-2013, 6:14 PM
vanhahner444@hotmail.com vanhahner444@hotmail.com is offline
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Please post a link to the bill text or announcement if you have it, I will get the word out ASAP.


http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local...185968592.html
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  #155  
Old 01-08-2013, 6:50 PM
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Originally Posted by vanhahner444@hotmail.com View Post
Thanks.. I read the text of the bill and it is seriously scary.
They will from the looks of it project state law beyond it's boarders. As an example, if I buy 5000 rounds of ammo at wally world in Nevada, or order online at Cheaper than dirt, those company or people would be charged with a crime! Are you F#$%ing kidding me!!
Sure they might be trying to screw us, which is bad enough, but now they are trying to project their laws to others. That is just plain wrong!
Also standard blocked ten round PMags bye bye!!! Utterly ridiculous!
Although I give her credit, it was better written than the garbage coming from Illinois.
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  #156  
Old 01-08-2013, 6:55 PM
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My buddy and I drove from Apple Valley, California to Ft. Hunt National Park, Virginia for the "Restore the Constitution" Rally on April 19th 2010 with our California Republic flags! Pretty sure I can drive to Sacramento for this one!!!!! See you there!
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  #157  
Old 01-08-2013, 7:32 PM
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My buddy and I drove from Apple Valley, California to Ft. Hunt National Park, Virginia for the "Restore the Constitution" Rally on April 19th 2010 with our California Republic flags! Pretty sure I can drive to Sacramento for this one!!!!! See you there!
Sounds like a plan Spartan!
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  #158  
Old 01-08-2013, 9:34 PM
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This rally has me very concerned for all the reasons that Gene and Citadel pointed out, so I wont rehash those points here. There seems to be a lot of tunnel vision going on and since I'm quite certain that if Gene nor Citadel can sway you, then nor will I.

Perhaps, however, you will listen to yourself and grok the irony of the following quotes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanchanim View Post
but right now in every state in the country our politicians are acting on the feeling of SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!That line of thinking regardless of what law or legislation we are talking about is the wrong attitude to take.
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Originally Posted by Sanchanim View Post
The upside is we are starting to do something. We seem to be growing in strength everyday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhahner444@hotmail.com View Post
"A picture is worth a thousand words!" It's time to hit the street!
Remember, you and everybody in attendance are representing every gun owner in America and therefore you hold OUR rights in YOUR hands.

As Yeats said "I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.". Now replace "dreams" with "rights" and hopefully you will understand the gravity of what you are about to partake in.
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Old 01-08-2013, 9:50 PM
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Great idea guys! We have to stand up for our rights otherwise they will surely be taken away.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:25 PM
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This rally has me very concerned for all the reasons that Gene and Citadel pointed out, so I wont rehash those points here. There seems to be a lot of tunnel vision going on and since I'm quite certain that if Gene nor Citadel can sway you, then nor will I.

Perhaps, however, you will listen to yourself and grok the irony of the following quotes:







Remember, you and everybody in attendance are representing every gun owner in America and therefore you hold OUR rights in YOUR hands.

As Yeats said "I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.". Now replace "dreams" with "rights" and hopefully you will understand the gravity of what you are about to partake in.

@Siege, Believe me I fully understand the undertaking, and the gravity of it. Let's assume that I get hit by a bus tomorrow, and people still show up on the 19th. We will want to make sure that they in fact have the proper message to deliver. We don't want to do more damage. We certainly do not want to go nuclear like an Alex Jones, or something like that. We are smarter than this. We will leave the tin foil hats at home. We will present ourselves as your neighbors, your teachers, and friends. We are no different than anyone else, but we choose to exercise a right. The right does not make us a criminal.
There are lots of things that I want to focus on which doesn't talk about magazines, or semi automatics. It has to do with out liberties and freedoms.
It has to do with our rights as Americans, and why we think this are being infringed, heck I can tie it to taxation if you want. We are going to do our best to control the information and the message as best as possible.
One thing I do know is we have many other capitals where this is taking place. I am feeding back to the organizers your concerns, as well as Gene's, and yes even CitaDel's. Just because you might not agree with our actions, it will go forward, even if I don't make it. Other Capitals and other organizers are involved.
Yes I do see the irony. I am honestly really tired. Law abiding gun owners have sat back and let the citizen disarmament groups run wild. We have not had a conversation, we have been lectured. I have sat back in the shadows and not been active, and it is enough. It is time for us to begin to organize ourselves as citizens, not just sending the money to the various groups. They do their best, but they can't do it all.
When Illinois had garbage legislation on the table their phones were so jammed, they couldn't work. Those were individuals calling in. We also need to organize our message and our ideas.
It was like I posted before, this might all be a disastrous flop, but I will be damned if I don't do my best to make it a success.
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