Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > INTERESTS AND ACTIVITIES > Ammo and Reloading
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Ammo and Reloading Factory Ammunition, Reloading, Components, Load Data and more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-01-2013, 8:36 PM
cruddymutt's Avatar
cruddymutt cruddymutt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: High Desert
Posts: 1,595
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default Opinion. Accuracy or velocity. Whats your flavor?

I loaded up a new load for my 1911. I used Missouri Bullet Co 200gr LRN 12 bhn, Wolf LPP, and 5 gr Unique. My friend uses Missouri Bullet Co 200gr LRN 18 bhn, unknown primers, and 8.2gr Unique. He boast that he is going at 1100+ fps but has to aim 3-4 inches low at 20 yards.
I expected my 1911 to shoot high as well but wanted to see how off it was so I aimed dead center @ 20 yards and low and behold it shot all 8 around 1.5 inch group darn near dead center. I was very impressed.
Now my friend is clowning my "wussy" load is probably not breaking 800fps but I dont care. It hits where I aim and to me, that more important. Whats more important to you?
__________________

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-01-2013, 8:58 PM
tiller tiller is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 794
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Velocity doesnt matter to me... Would you like to be shot with either round?? Probably not...

Will either penetrate the body? You bet??

Accuracy>velocity
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-01-2013, 8:59 PM
cycle61 cycle61 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 385
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

1) Ability to hit the point of aim at the desired distance

2) Ability to deliver the necessary energy to the target at that range

Hopefully this answer is completely useless to you. For me, it's a hot .44 magnum. For my GF, it's a mild .44 special. For either of us, it's a factory Speer 124 gr GDHP 9mm.

YMMV.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-01-2013, 9:01 PM
Capt.Dunsel Capt.Dunsel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 798
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

What good does a fast moving projectile have if you can't hit what your aiming at?

I like to load for the best accuracy with the best velocity to get the job done.
__________________
Let those without fault cast the first stone .

Bweise says "I have to say the situation was not at all helped by 22 yr old former Airsoft douches who kept touting here, "But possession is not illegal!" "

Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones , cause I got a sling shot

Fighting on the internet is like being in the special Olympics , everybody wins but your still retarded.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-01-2013, 9:08 PM
bombadillo's Avatar
bombadillo bombadillo is offline
Former Humboldtian
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: IDAHO and another proud member of the quitters club!
Posts: 14,044
iTrader: 79 / 100%
Default

Bullet placement trumps all.
__________________
http://mossbergmvp.com/index.php?forum/
If you have any questions on the MVP platform, ask me here or on the "other" site. Same handle there.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-01-2013, 9:10 PM
drdarrin@sbcglobal.net's Avatar
drdarrin@sbcglobal.net drdarrin@sbcglobal.net is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 2,176
iTrader: 31 / 100%
Default

If you can't hit it the speed doesn't matter.
__________________
NRA Life Member
GOA Life Member
USMC '71 - '78

"I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything; but still I can do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do."
Edward Everett Hale
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-02-2013, 12:04 AM
Whiterabbit Whiterabbit is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 5,761
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

you never said the accuracy of his load. He can file sights or change them or adjust them to hit bullseye if that's what range he wants to calibrate to.

But if he's shooting 8's and you are shooting 1.5's, I don't see how he "can make fun of you" for shooting cat sneeze rounds.

I don't care about bullseye. I care about group size. Once you have the load that shoots tight, just fix the sights to that load if you want.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-02-2013, 12:09 AM
Timberwolf's Avatar
Timberwolf Timberwolf is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Antelope Valley
Posts: 6,300
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Accuracy trumps speed. Rather hit something dead on with a slow bullet that miss it with a fast one.
__________________
I'm only smiling at you while you talk to me because it's hilarious that you really think I give a crap about you.

As I've gotten older I thought I was gaining patience, then I realized I simply don't give a crap.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-02-2013, 1:59 AM
GeoffLinder's Avatar
GeoffLinder GeoffLinder is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pacifica, CA
Posts: 2,425
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Beyond bullet placement, power factor (PF) is a major determining factor in stopping power for the .45ACP round. Factory FMJ loading is typically a 220gr at about 950 fps which provides a 210,000 (or 210) power factor. That load is considered a real handful recoil wise and makes fast repeat shots hard to get off.

At 200gr, 800-850fps is gonna give you about a 165-168 PF, which is considered quite powerful in most circles (it makes Major in USPSA competition) AND provides a reasonable level of recoil to control. A 200gr going 1050+ fps is gonna get you back into the 210 PF full power range where recoil is a big factor in controllability.

I would recommend adding just a smidgeon more powder and sticking to the 175-180 PF level with .45ACP for general practice. This will keep you from developing a bad case of "recoil anticipation" also known as flinch

When it comes to self defense, stoke up with a quality factory full power 180gr jacketed hollow point. Higher velocities help hollow points expand properly is soft materials. Get a little practice in with them to make sure you know the difference, but keep practicing with the lower PF heavier bullet hand loads and you won't develop bad habits that keep you from gaining good shot placement when the time for that comes a calling!

BTW, PF is calculated by multiplying the bullet weight in grains by the velocity in fps.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by GeoffLinder; 01-02-2013 at 2:04 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-02-2013, 8:17 AM
bruceflinch's Avatar
bruceflinch bruceflinch is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Gun Point, KA
Posts: 39,769
iTrader: 66 / 100%
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffLinder View Post
Beyond bullet placement, power factor (PF) is a major determining factor in stopping power for the .45ACP round. Factory FMJ loading is typically a 220gr at about 950 fps which provides a 210,000 (or 210) power factor. That load is considered a real handful recoil wise and makes fast repeat shots hard to get off.

At 200gr, 800-850fps is gonna give you about a 165-168 PF, which is considered quite powerful in most circles (it makes Major in USPSA competition) AND provides a reasonable level of recoil to control. A 200gr going 1050+ fps is gonna get you back into the 210 PF full power range where recoil is a big factor in controllability.

I would recommend adding just a smidgeon more powder and sticking to the 175-180 PF level with .45ACP for general practice. This will keep you from developing a bad case of "recoil anticipation" also known as flinch

When it comes to self defense, stoke up with a quality factory full power 180gr jacketed hollow point. Higher velocities help hollow points expand properly is soft materials. Get a little practice in with them to make sure you know the difference, but keep practicing with the lower PF heavier bullet hand loads and you won't develop bad habits that keep you from gaining good shot placement when the time for that comes a calling!

BTW, PF is calculated by multiplying the bullet weight in grains by the velocity in fps.

Hope this helps.
Well since you dragged me into the thread...
__________________
Actually I only started collecting Milsurps 3 years ago. I think I might own about 24...They're cheaper than guns that will most likely never get the opportunity to kill somebody...

Boycott Guns Fishing & Other Stuff in Vacaville!

Tis better to have Trolled & lost, Than to never have Trolled, at all.

Member: NRA, CRPA, IDPA, Diablo Rod & Gun, Local 39
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-02-2013, 8:32 AM
Manolito's Avatar
Manolito Manolito is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Milford California Pop. 72
Posts: 2,327
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Geoff for the win in my corner. Most bullets expand and perform their best at over 1Kfps. The .45 has always loaded just under the 1K mark. When you read the morbidity reports you will find many people live from hand gun shots because the bullet did not penetrate far enough to damage the well protected intern vitals.

If you are developing a round for self defense how are you going to test effective damage? I would load for comfort and accuracy for range shooting and follow the advice of others and purchase a good already tested self defense round.

Just my thought.

Sure is fun to find that one round that is comfortable and hits right where you want it leaving you the only excuse for a miss is you.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-02-2013, 8:36 AM
CalTeacher CalTeacher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 822
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

DVC
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-02-2013, 6:43 PM
cruddymutt's Avatar
cruddymutt cruddymutt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: High Desert
Posts: 1,595
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Well the story deepens. I found out my friend does not even load his own ammo. He has his uncle do it for him so I asked his uncle what his load is. 8.1 seems like alot to me. 5gr fills the case halfway and IMO 8.1 would be a compressed load. Maybe not but it seems like it would. Anyways, he told me the load is actually 6.5gr Unique. He just tells my friend whatever he wants to hear and what he wants to hear is that his gun is the strongest most bad arsest 1911 on the planet that shoots 2600fps.
These are just paper killing rounds for my myself, wife and kids to shoot for fun. My HD gun is my SA XD-40 (working a load up for that as well, just waiting for supplies).
The uncle has offered to let me use his chrono. Next day off Ill see what mine are actually moving at.
__________________

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-03-2013, 2:09 AM
johnny1290 johnny1290 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,565
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

I have no idea how fast mine are going. I load to make it cycle reliably. Then I increase load and pick whatever combination of nice groups and easy shooting works for me. Lately that's been at the very low end. Its plenty accurate and just more fun for me to shoot.

I find the hotter loads to be less comfortable to shoot and my groups open up.

I'm not a good shot by any means, judging by my groups vs. others at the indoor range. I *do* manage to hit the targets at 35 and 50 yards over at Angeles more than some. It's really satisfying to hear the sound of the bullet hitting the target after not having been able to do it for so long!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-04-2013, 8:01 PM
Cowboy T's Avatar
Cowboy T Cowboy T is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: PAULestine, USA
Posts: 3,822
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

"Gun control" = "consistently hitting the bullseye at 25 paces."

Only accurate guns and loads are interesting to me. If I want something with more oomph than what I'm shooting that day, I call for the bigger gun and round.

For example, I've got two loads for .45 Colt, "mild" and "wild", both shot out of a Ruger Super Redhawk 454. The mild load is about 850 fps with a 200gr cast boolit. The wild load is right about 1,300 FPS with a 255gr cast boolit (about the same power as full-house .44 Magnum loads). Both loads were designed for the tightest precision, i. e. small group size. This is how I design all of my loads.

As Col. Townsend Whelen put it, "only accurate rifles are interesting." The same applies to handguns, or ammo.
__________________
"San Francisco Liberal With A Gun"
F***ing with people's heads, one gun show at a time. Hallelujah!
http://www.sanfranciscoliberalwithagun.com (reloading info w/ videos)
http://www.liberalsguncorner.com (podcast)
http://www.youtube.com/sfliberal (YouTube channel)
----------------------------------------------------
To be a true Liberal, you must be 100% pro-Second Amendment. Anything less is inconsistent with liberalism.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-04-2013, 11:45 PM
scotty99 scotty99 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Newbury Park
Posts: 377
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

I think you should ask your friend what he is compensating for. I'm pretty sure he has or is planning to buy/ build a monster truck as well.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:33 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.