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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 08-20-2007, 11:02 AM
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Sig226 Sig226 is offline
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Default Pistol Caliber Ar-15 Uppers (?)

Ok, so I'm in the process of fine tuning a AP-4/Ar-10 build I just completed on a POFGenIII, and Im looking to the next project....

A pistol caliber upper in either 9mm or .40SW and I wanted to get any thoughts, comments, and real world experience with these guys from the group here on CG.


So on that note I am looking to build an AR using a pistol cal upper and have been searching the threads here, and on Ar-15.com and seem to be going down the same roads each time---which don't lead to an answer.

I haven't found too many threads specifically about reliability and accuracy of different PC (Pistol Caliber) uppers. Anyone have any real words of wisdom on this subject?

Second---and probably most important--- Which brand/make/model/caliber has the best magazine options available? I keep hearing rumors/vague mentions of uppers that will take normal glock mags, and others that use modified Sten mags, etc... Most of these post all point to supply problems, however the most current on this subject I could find was almost a year old!

So, on that note--- how/where can I get a few mags for a properly paired PC upper?



My goal here is to finish a simple PC upper build on a stag lower, with MM grip, non-collapsible ACE stock, and finally put a "frugal type" red dot site on top.

Basically I want to build a rig meant for shooting gallery/steel type fun. So on that note, and given my questions above--- What pistol cal upper might do me justice keeping in mind magazine availability and ease of use considering I'm not building this fixed---more over "featureless". Also, what vendor (if any) is likely to have the model in stock?


As always, thanks for taking a look and commenting where ya can!

Dave
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  #2  
Old 08-20-2007, 11:38 AM
AJAX22 AJAX22 is offline
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If you have Uzi mags, they can be converted to work with RRA/Colt uppers

If you have sten mags then they can be used unmodified with an olympic arms setup.

I've heard rumors about the glock mag thing too, but I haven't seen anyone whoactually had one.

the whole point of a pistol cal upper is to have a cheap to shoot gun thats more powerfull than a .22 that can take big magazines, in my opinion a .40 cal upper would be pointless.
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  #3  
Old 08-20-2007, 1:06 PM
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i just got done building my 9mm ar using a colt upper and colt magblock. actually still waiting on a couple of things (fake silencer to bring the barrel up to legal length and a mmgrip). if you want to use glock mags, etc. the only setup that allows that is an olympic arms system. the good thing about the olympic system is that you can use a regular ar lower as opposed to a "colt type" system which requires a 9mm hammer and heavier buffer, unless you have a dpms lpk since the dpms hammers are built w/o the little notch in the hammer. you can however use a colt system w/ a regular hammer if you ramp your bolt (search arfcom on this subject). now if you have uzi mags just laying around, the best thing would be to go with a colt type system, and get a suitable magblock (vmhytech allows the use of unmodified uzi mags) but if you have a glock and have preban hicap mags laying around you could go with the olympic system. last time i checked, olympic arms was unwilling to ship to ca anymore (but could be wrong). if you're in socal pm randall (ar15barrels), i was just over there getting my race upper built and he had several 9mm rra uppers (colt style) and could definately get you started in the right direction.
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Old 08-20-2007, 1:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJAX22 View Post
the whole point of a pistol cal upper is to have a cheap to shoot gun thats more powerfull than a .22 that can take big magazines, in my opinion a .40 cal upper would be pointless.
And that is the point here 100%..... The only reason I could think of going .40 would be due to "my perception" that it would/should be more accurate at slightly longer distances. (And due to the fact that I own two Sigs in .40.) That being said---the cost of 9mm is winning out in my head at the moment.


In regards to the RRA/UziMags vs the Oly/StenMags---which type of mag is more reliable, easily available, and if it works out--cheaper?

Finally, any comparison on RRA vs Oly in terms of reliability and availability?
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Old 08-20-2007, 1:37 PM
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whether you go with a colt/uzi or oly/sten, unless you have the hicaps already you'll be unable to aquire them (legally) so i would say colt(rra)/uzi since cproducts offers 10 rnd metal body mags ($30 ea). if you don't have hicaps, you might as well get a bulletbottom or prince50 and get all the evil features.
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  #6  
Old 08-20-2007, 2:16 PM
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I have Rock River uppers in stock.
I had old uzi mags pre-2000 and I have several registered AW lowers so I went with the hytech block which allows the use of the un-modified uzi mags.
You can read the tacked threads on ar15.com and you will find my whole write-up on how I tweaked the hytech block for better reliability.
Once doing that, my RRA 9mm upper has run awesome.
I don't generally bump fire, but this is one that's fun to do that with.

I have 9mm hammers in stock as well.
If you wanna come over and look at how mine went together, just drop me a line...
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  #7  
Old 08-20-2007, 2:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
If you wanna come over and look at how mine went together, just drop me a line...
I sent ya a note earlier today, but another one is inbound....


On another note---Was jpglee or someone else on CG.net selling 10rd modified/limited Sten or Uzi mags?
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  #8  
Old 08-20-2007, 2:31 PM
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So are the Glock ar lowers going to be available in Cali?
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  #9  
Old 08-20-2007, 2:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g2jap View Post
So are the Glock ar lowers going to be available in Cali?
From what I understand--- it isn't a glock lower per say, but a block that goes in a standard lower than in turn accepts glock mags. Thus far though---I am unable to locate any data on that specific system.

Skip all that--- oly makes a lower that takes Glock mags, but apparently they don't sell just the lower.... And from what I understand they don't sell to CA....

Last edited by Sig226; 08-20-2007 at 2:44 PM..
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  #10  
Old 08-20-2007, 2:44 PM
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Just out of curiosity, does anyone make uppers that use .45acp or 10mm? And AR upper in 10mm would be freakin sweet
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  #11  
Old 08-20-2007, 2:52 PM
DBA Samsun DBA Samsun is offline
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Yes they have .45 uppers, but oly makes one of the only lowers that will take a .45 mag, and as posted above, don't sell to CA
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  #12  
Old 08-21-2007, 8:34 AM
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Alright, so after the posts here and chatting with Randal I think the RRA 9mm is the way to go.....

However, two questions I forgot to ask or still need an answer too....



Who would have/be selling 10rd uzi mags?

And what twist rate on the barrel should I opt for getting? (1/15 seems like the standard for 16" barrels)

Thanks all for the help/info! Range report next Monday if I can get this girl together by the weekend....
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  #13  
Old 08-21-2007, 10:41 AM
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Well I just bit the bullet sorta-speak.... I went ahead an bought the following:

-Stag (Colt Style) LightWeight 9mm A3 Upper w/ Aluminum FreeFloatTube/2-rail GasBlock Kit (upper/BC/CH/9mmHammer/Buffer/Spring)
-ACE ARFX Entry Stock
-RRA LPK
-VM HY-TECH 9MM MAG BLOCK ADAPTER


All I need is a MM grip, and a few 10rd uzi mags I hope to get from CWS @ the OCC show.


Here is to hoping it all works out and she runs like my others...not to mention it all gets here in time for the weekend. Range report to follow if I can get out this weekend...
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  #14  
Old 08-21-2007, 8:52 PM
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You're going to love that set-up. I've owned both Oly and RRA/Colt style. I sold the Oly b/c I just liked the looks of the RRA/Colt. I had a colt sporter 9mm back in the day. Was one of my favorite guns to shoot.
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