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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 07-12-2016, 9:14 AM
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Default Where's Gene Hoffman?

Excuse my ignorance, but I haven't been active on Calguns for a while until recently. But with all the bills being signed and all the concern in the forums I'd figure he'd post a few things.
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Old 07-12-2016, 9:32 AM
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There is a lot to that story, but this should move to OT...
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Old 07-12-2016, 9:55 AM
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Rumor has it that the real legal beagles and movers and shakers no long reside here, something about greener pastures and we the unwashed on GCN. Which in hind sight might be a good thing since discussing strategy and proposals on how to get our rights back isn't necessarily a good on an open forum. Playing "chess not checkers" is good, broadcasting to your opponent your next move isn't.
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Old 07-12-2016, 1:19 PM
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Ahh I see.

I was afraid we were abandoned.
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Old 07-12-2016, 1:21 PM
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We were. Not that they or their efforts mattered much anyway.
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Old 07-12-2016, 1:23 PM
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He's probably looking for his infamous package. I hear it's been missing since ~2010 or so
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Old 07-12-2016, 1:35 PM
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He said he would be back in
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Old 07-12-2016, 1:44 PM
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We were. Not that they or their efforts mattered much anyway.
Every time somebody raises their voice or speaks out against oppression it matters.
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Old 07-12-2016, 1:47 PM
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Old 07-13-2016, 5:25 AM
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I get the feeling there's some bad blood between Gene Hoffman and the CalGuns community... anywhere I can read up on the "long story".
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Old 07-13-2016, 6:54 AM
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Iv'e wondered whatever happened to his super secret and "foolproof" standard cap magazine ban workaround, that a couple of years ago was "coming soon" and then turned into vapor.

He got everyone all worked up about this and then nothing happened?
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Old 07-13-2016, 7:02 AM
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The ice-cream truck idea? I remember that. Never did hear the whole story on what that was all about. My guess is, a hidden flaw was finally discovered, or a better long-range plan took it's place, minus the fanfare.

I understand, no good general broadcasts his attack plans to the enemy over the internet in advance. I wish there was some way for us who are loyal to the cause to be "in" on what's in the works though. Hopefully someday we will get to see it in action.
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Old 07-13-2016, 7:17 AM
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The ice-cream truck idea? I remember that. Never did hear the whole story on what that was all about. My guess is, a hidden flaw was finally discovered, or a better long-range plan took it's place, minus the fanfare.

I understand, no good general broadcasts his attack plans to the enemy over the internet in advance. I wish there was some way for us who are loyal to the cause to be "in" on what's in the works though. Hopefully someday we will get to see it in action.
My guess is that it was a ridiculous idea in the first place and the longer it went on, the more that became evident, so it was dropped, and that is one of the reasons that he doesn't hang around here anymore.

Whatever "workarounds" people can come up with can always be trumped by the govt. when that govt. is always working against you. They simply conjure up a new law. Look at what just happened with the BB; BANG! Sorry, that's an AW now.

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Old 07-13-2016, 7:23 AM
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I missed the ice cream truck idea. What was that all about?
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Old 07-13-2016, 7:35 AM
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I missed the ice cream truck idea. What was that all about?
Maybe?

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...with Gene driving around California in a renovated ice cream truck selling 30 round magazines to calguns members...
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Old 07-13-2016, 8:06 AM
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Just over 5 years old at this point.

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Old 07-13-2016, 8:37 AM
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Alrighty then...
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Old 07-13-2016, 8:50 AM
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Would you stick around in a place where hundreds of people constantly treat you with disrespect? One of the major problems with the pro-2A community is we eat our own, for no good reason, other than ego from what I can see.
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Old 07-13-2016, 8:58 AM
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Gene and the group that "left" were not the legal beagles (Gene is a tech guy,) but they were very passionate about what they were doing and they certainly pushed forward what they believed to be the "right course."

Legal beagle is FGG (Fabio Gets Goosed) and he more than butted heads with Gene. Look up his posting history and you'll find very interesting (and funny) exchanges that turned out to be exactly the way FGG predicted. The whole "chess vs. checkers" phrase also turned upside down...
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Old 07-13-2016, 9:03 AM
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Would you stick around in a place where hundreds of people constantly treat you with disrespect? One of the major problems with the pro-2A community is we eat our own, for no good reason, other than ego from what I can see.
Agreed. I think a lot of us want instant action, and most of the time, its simply not possible, especially when trying to reform Ca firearm laws. We are a small fish in a very large pond, and unless we all join together in large numbers, the bigger fish will surely eat us all.

Admittedly, my faith in the NRA and other similar 2A legal representatives has come and gone over the years. However, I now realize that we (as a whole), need legal representation at a higher level or none of us will prosper if we continue to habitually fight independently of each other.
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Old 07-13-2016, 9:06 AM
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Would you stick around in a place where hundreds of people constantly treat you with disrespect? One of the major problems with the pro-2A community is we eat our own, for no good reason, other than ego from what I can see.
This.

The place is riddled with leftist plants as well.
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  #22  
Old 07-13-2016, 9:18 AM
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Gene and the group that "left" were not the legal beagles (Gene is a tech guy,) but they were very passionate about what they were doing and they certainly pushed forward what they believed to be the "right course."

Legal beagle is FGG (Fabio Gets Goosed) and he more than butted heads with Gene. Look up his posting history and you'll find very interesting (and funny) exchanges that turned out to be exactly the way FGG predicted. The whole "chess vs. checkers" phrase also turned upside down...
Interesting.

And yeah, I wish CGF and the California 2A civil rights community had clearly defined leadership that was vocal and visible.

We need a leader or two or three.
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Old 07-13-2016, 9:20 AM
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Gene was right about one thing. This is what he said in 2011:

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The Constitutional minimum of the right to arms will not be set in Oregon. It will be set in states like California, New Jersey, Illinois, Massachusetts and New York.
That is what you are seeing happen before your eyes. California will end up with the absolute minimum, bottom-of-the-barrel, lowest possible level of gun rights allowed under the Constitution. Not a complete ban because that would be unconstitutional, but as constricted, restricted, hampered, diminished, and expensive as the California Legislature and future governor Newsom can make it. Because that is what they and the California voters who elect and re-elect them want, and there is little anyone can do to stop them. Gene's prediction is coming true.
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Old 07-13-2016, 9:23 AM
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Would you stick around in a place where hundreds of people constantly treat you with disrespect?
I think that came later, after CGF actions tapered off and after CGF members started posting less. There was a lot of promise and hype around CGF, and folks being critical in the last few years is just the natural response to a lack of major results.

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Old 07-13-2016, 9:39 AM
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Heard Gene on Tom Greshams's GunTalk podcast broadcast date 6-12-16

http://guntalk.libsyn.com/guntalk-06-12-2016-part-a
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Old 07-13-2016, 9:46 AM
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One of the major problems with the pro-2A community is we eat our own, for no good reason, other than ego from what I can see.
If we had won Shall Issue back in 2013-14, that would NO have happened. My GUESS: High Bridge Arms would still be open in SF. Chabot Gun Club would not be closing. Most of the gun control bills that just got signed would not have become law.

Why? Because we would have had, another guess, ~200,000 more CCWers than we do now. Sacto would see that and fear. Those CCWers would now have "skin in the game" and be more active politically re. 2nd A issues. (Haven't you seen how many people step forward with donations AFTER wins, when we really need the $$$ before, to fight the battles yet to be won?)

When people are frustrated, it is only natural for them to fight among themselves. It is not good, it is foolish, but it is also understandable.
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Old 07-13-2016, 9:54 AM
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...5&postcount=24

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...9&postcount=16
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Old 07-13-2016, 10:14 AM
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So you are saying that they embezzled money and used it to pay for their personal assets. If so, then that's a crime. Do you have any evidence to back this up?
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Old 07-13-2016, 10:45 AM
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Seems like this is getting mighty close to a slanderous accusation...
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Old 07-13-2016, 2:53 PM
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Seems like this is getting mighty close to a slanderous accusation...
Post #27 resembles it closely
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Old 07-13-2016, 2:54 PM
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The magazine sales thing was not an ice cream truck. I was sworn to secrecy, so will keep it, but it was a long ways from an ice cream truck, I thought it was genius, don't know why it never happened, but with the new laws, it doesn't matter anymore anyway.

And the ice cream truck was actually an armored car using the armored car company exemption and how it was worded, but that was always understood to be impossible from a practical point. There is a thread about that someplace. Again, not that it matters now.

And when talking about money and results, don't forget that we have been losing in the courts recently.
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Old 07-13-2016, 10:31 PM
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The magazine workaround was essentially a federal preemption issue, but some case law needed to be established first. Unfortunately, absent a political miracle of historic proportions, that case law is not going to be established. The wider legal strategy that Gene had endorsed failed, as well. Our historical window of opportunity was so narrow that the opposition simply managed to stall long enough.
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Old 07-14-2016, 7:04 AM
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Originally Posted by IVC View Post
Gene and the group that "left" were not the legal beagles (Gene is a tech guy,) but they were very passionate about what they were doing and they certainly pushed forward what they believed to be the "right course."

Legal beagle is FGG (Fabio Gets Goosed) and he more than butted heads with Gene. Look up his posting history and you'll find very interesting (and funny) exchanges that turned out to be exactly the way FGG predicted. The whole "chess vs. checkers" phrase also turned upside down...
In my opinion, Gene's heart is and was in the right place which is one of the reasons why I respect him. The problem was that while he's a good cheerleader and organizer he was simply overly trusting in the courts and leftist judges, and in Democrat politicians to do the right thing and respect our Constitutional rights. It was never going to happen. Modern judges are way too steeped in the philosophy of the Constitution as a living (actually - dead) document that can say anything that they want it to say, and their Progressive politics requires that they allow politicians to disarm the peasantry. I suspect that our string of losses in Sacramento, SCOTUS' refusal to defend our rights, the lower courts near unanimous rejection of Heller, a disastrous debate (to be fair he was set up and walked into a trap), and a loss of credibility due to endorsing Jerry Brown for Governor got him down. We aren't going to win any political battles in California until we start getting solidly pro-gun Republicans elected, and we aren't going to win in the courts until the composition of the US Supreme Court moves several steps to the Original Constructionist/Textualist right. In other words, we're probably just screwed.

As for "chess not checkers" - pick the one that you can win. While checkers playing 2A rights activists were politically beating the tar out of gun grabbers in "fly-over country", in California we've been repeatedly handed our heads in political and judicial chess matches.
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Old 07-14-2016, 7:10 AM
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Excuse my ignorance, but I haven't been active on Calguns for a while until recently. But with all the bills being signed and all the concern in the forums I'd figure he'd post a few things.
He had a falling out with Kes over his posts getting deleted.

He and the Quark haven't posted in a long time and doubt they will.
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Old 07-14-2016, 7:39 AM
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I used to really want to believe Gene and didn't really care to hear what FGG had to say. Gene was always very respectful and well spoken, and seemed to be a great "face" for the movement. Gene still believed in the system, and had a way of convincing other folks to believe in it too. By contrast, FGG came off as an arrogant condescending *** who's relentless negativity really diminished the "Calguns experience".

BUTTTT, results are results. FGG was right most of the time and Gene was wrong. Gene's strategy and predicted outcomes were mostly wrong, and much time and resources were wasted fighting for nothing. I personally donated large sums of money (by my standards) to the cause, and felt like I got no return on that investment - many others felt the same way and Gene's popularity waned. Many people on the forums actually thought that Gene was an attorney and represented himself as such, then were disappointed to find out that he was not a lawyer. In mob mentality style, Gene was thoroughly roasted by the Calguns soapbox every time he would post; indeed, it seemed like certain people were even patiently waiting by their keyboards waiting for him to post so they could take pleasure in bashing him.

I doubt that Gene was trying to rip people off or had a hidden agenda. I really believe that he was working hard and his heart was in the right place. But just like any problem in life involving litigation, people hate constantly emptying their pockets to attorneys that consistently get their asses kicked. In the end, Gene proved to be a good guy, but the wrong guy to handle our legal pathway to freedom.
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Old 07-14-2016, 8:25 AM
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He had a falling out with Kes over his posts getting deleted.

He and the Quark haven't posted in a long time and doubt they will.
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I used to really want to believe Gene and didn't really care to hear what FGG had to say. Gene was always very respectful and well spoken, and seemed to be a great "face" for the movement. Gene still believed in the system, and had a way of convincing other folks to believe in it too. By contrast, FGG came off as an arrogant condescending *** who's relentless negativity really diminished the "Calguns experience".

BUTTTT, results are results. FGG was right most of the time and Gene was wrong. Gene's strategy and predicted outcomes were mostly wrong, and much time and resources were wasted fighting for nothing. I personally donated large sums of money (by my standards) to the cause, and felt like I got no return on that investment - many others felt the same way and Gene's popularity waned. Many people on the forums actually thought that Gene was an attorney and represented himself as such, then were disappointed to find out that he was not a lawyer. In mob mentality style, Gene was thoroughly roasted by the Calguns soapbox every time he would post; indeed, it seemed like certain people were even patiently waiting by their keyboards waiting for him to post so they could take pleasure in bashing him.

I doubt that Gene was trying to rip people off or had a hidden agenda. I really believe that he was working hard and his heart was in the right place. But just like any problem in life involving litigation, people hate constantly emptying their pockets to attorneys that consistently get their asses kicked. In the end, Gene proved to be a good guy, but the wrong guy to handle our legal pathway to freedom.

Thanks guys, that definitely cleared things up for me.

I guess my only question is... who is our leader?

Do we have a leader or band of leaders or a "face" of Calguns?

I understand we all need to do our part if we want to turn things around, but I also understand every movement needs a leader.
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Old 07-14-2016, 9:04 AM
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Thanks guys, that definitely cleared things up for me.

I guess my only question is... who is our leader?

Do we have a leader or band of leaders or a "face" of Calguns?

I understand we all need to do our part if we want to turn things around, but I also understand every movement needs a leader.
This is a start, anyway.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1219197
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  #39  
Old 07-14-2016, 12:16 PM
jimx jimx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Original Godfather View Post

I guess my only question is... who is our leader?


The leader of CGF is Gene Hoffman

The leader and sole owner of CGN is Kes
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  #40  
Old 07-14-2016, 12:54 PM
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...and the one who took the most pleasure from the Peruta loss was FGG.
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