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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 11-26-2016, 10:28 AM
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Limeman Limeman is offline
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Default AR upper/lower build question with new AR Law in 2017

Hey guys,

Hope this is in the correct forum...

Will it be legal to buy a lower - say a stripped lower - and DROS it before the end of the year and before the new AR law sets in- and then build it and buy an upper group later in 2017 to have a complete rifle?

What about buying a new upper group at some point in 2017 and swapping it into a lower you've had before the law?

Thanks for helping me with this.

Cheers!
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  #2  
Old 11-26-2016, 10:52 AM
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Must be a complete rifle in your posession before Jan 1 unless you are building a featureless or rimfire. You can't build up a rifle after Jan 1 with a BB in the hopes of registering.
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  #3  
Old 11-26-2016, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Limeman View Post
Hey guys,

Hope this is in the correct forum...

Will it be legal to buy a lower - say a stripped lower - and DROS it before the end of the year and before the new AR law sets in- and then build it and buy an upper group later in 2017 to have a complete rifle?

What about buying a new upper group at some point in 2017 and swapping it into a lower you've had before the law?

Thanks for helping me with this.

Cheers!
The simply answer is No. A stripped lower does not meet the definition of an AW and can't be registered as such. (There is no prohibition on changing uppers post 2016 on an AW registered in 2017.)
The buy stripped lower in 2016 and build in 2017 plan doesn't work and could potentially expose you to three felonies: 1) perjury on the AW registration form 2) assembling an unregistered AW and 3) possession of an unregistered AW. CADOJ knows people will try this. They don't need to catch everyone. All they need is one good test case charging someone with three felonies and make an example out of them. That victim will do time and pay a fine. Every news organization will make a big deal out of this.
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Last edited by Blade Gunner; 11-26-2016 at 10:58 AM..
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  #4  
Old 11-26-2016, 11:11 AM
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Got that. So the only solution is to buy the stripped lower and then build it up fully and add a complete upper - all before Jan 1. Got it.

Lord have mercy I am so disliking this once fantastic state we live in.
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  #5  
Old 11-26-2016, 12:51 PM
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One more QQ: Does a fully built lower meet the definition of AW such that it can be registered at some point in 2017?
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  #6  
Old 11-26-2016, 2:56 PM
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No.
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  #7  
Old 11-26-2016, 4:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Limeman View Post
One more QQ: Does a fully built lower meet the definition of AW such that it can be registered at some point in 2017?
As John Browning said, NO.

To be an assault weapon the firearm must be semiautomatic, centerfire and not have a fixed magazine and it must have one or more features, such as, a folding or collapsible stock, a pistol grip, a thumbhole stock, a flash suppressor, or a forward pistol grip. The problem with a mere lower is that it might not be part of a centerfire or semiautomatic firearm, even it has a feature and a detachable magazine. While it might be possible to argue that a complete lower with a .223/5.56 magazine is centerfire, you still would not have established that it was part of a semiautomatic firearm without some type of an upper. For instance, if the barrel did not have a gas port, the firearm would not be semiautomatic. So a barrel with a gas port would seem to be an indispensable requirement.
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  #8  
Old 11-26-2016, 5:51 PM
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So if I have a completely stripped lower with a LPK and no upper, come Jan 1st 2017 my options are:

1) Buy an upper and build up the lower before Jan1 to register it as an AW
2) Keep the lower unbuilt and not register it and never be able to build it up with features
3) Keep the lower unbuilt and not register it with the option to build it up featureless post Jan 1
4) Relinquish the lower
5) All else is illegal?

P.S.
If I choose 2 or 3, can I legally transport it out of state or sell it as a PPT?
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Last edited by SiegeX; 11-26-2016 at 5:56 PM..
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  #9  
Old 11-27-2016, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiegeX View Post
So if I have a completely stripped lower with a LPK and no upper, come Jan 1st 2017 my options are:

1) Buy an upper and build up the lower before Jan1 to register it as an AW
2) Keep the lower unbuilt and not register it and never be able to build it up with features
3) Keep the lower unbuilt and not register it with the option to build it up featureless post Jan 1
4) Relinquish the lower
5) All else is illegal?

P.S.
If I choose 2 or 3, can I legally transport it out of state or sell it as a PPT?
yup.
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  #10  
Old 11-27-2016, 11:19 AM
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I keep seeing this question and wonder it myself. Per the new law I understand a stripped lower doesn't constitute a AW, but if you are in possession of one prior to Jan. 1 2017, and have all of 2017 as a "grace period" to register as a AW, how can they prove you assembled it after the Jan. 1st deadline. Lower parts kits and such are non FFL items and aren't suddenly going to become unavailable after the 1st. That being said I'm not saying it's not illegal, but really how can they prove it.

To me it's no different than those going the 80% route in 2017
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  #11  
Old 11-27-2016, 11:37 AM
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If you have one complete rifle and two complete lowers as of December 31, 2016, are they not all complete rifles before the magic date if you move the one upper between the three lowers (prior to that date)?

Even a registered Assault rifle can be reduced to a stripped lower then rebuilt again and still remain a registered assault rifle. So why would you have to have an upper for each of the lowers.
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