Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:20 AM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Super Moderator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Concord
Posts: 31,523
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Blog Entries: 6
Default 2013 CA SB 53 - Deleon/Yee Ammunition purchase permits (FAILED)

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...=201320140SB53

See also
the Beginner's guide to reading bills and
a short post on How a Bill Becomes Law
Quote:
(1) Existing law requires the Attorney General to maintain records, including among other things, fingerprints, licenses to carry concealed firearms, and information from firearms dealers pertaining to firearms, for purposes of assisting in the investigation of crimes, and specified civil actions.

This bill would require the Attorney General to also maintain copies of ammunition purchase permits for those purposes.

(2) Existing law, subject to exceptions, requires that the delivery or transfer of ownership of handgun ammunition occur only in a face-to-face transaction. Existing law provides that the term “vendor” for purposes of ammunition sales is a “handgun ammunition vendor” as defined for those and other purposes.

This bill would extend those provisions to any ammunition. The bill would provide that the term “vendor” for purposes of ammunition sales means “ammunition vendor” as defined for those and other purposes. The bill would make additional conforming changes.

(3) Existing law prohibits an ammunition vendor from allowing a person the vendor knows or should know is a person who is prohibited from possessing firearms for specified reasons, from handling, selling, or delivering handgun ammunition in the course and scope of their employment. Existing law prohibits an ammunition vendor from selling or otherwise transferring ownership of, offering for sale or otherwise offering to transfer ownership of, or displaying for sale or displaying for transfer of ownership of, any handgun ammunition in a manner that allows that ammunition to be accessible to a purchaser or transferee without the assistance of the vendor or an employee of the vendor.

This bill would extend those prohibitions to any ammunition. The bill would provide that a violation of those provisions is a misdemeanor.
By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.

(4) Existing law subject to exceptions, requires a handgun ammunition vendor to record specified information at the time of delivery of handgun ammunition to a purchaser, as specified.
[[[ Seems like they think 962, the unconstitutionally vague law, is still in effect; to be fair, it still 'exists' in the PC.]]]

This bill would extend those provisions to transactions of any ammunition. The bill would, commencing September 1, 2014, and subject to exceptions, require the purchaser of ammunition to hold an ammunition purchase permit, or other specified permit, license, or certificate pertaining to acquisition, possession, or carrying firearms, as provided, or other specified documentation for a person who is not a state resident. The bill would, commencing September 1, 2014, require the vendor to submit to the Department of Justice information demonstrating compliance with that verification requirement, as specified. The bill would, commencing June 1, 2014, authorize issuance of ammunition purchase permits by the Department of Justice to applicants who are residents of this state, at least 18 years of age, not prohibited from acquiring or possessing ammunition, and who pay the required fees, as specified. The bill would establish an application process and specify the information to be displayed on the permit. The bill would provide that the permit authorizes the holder to purchase ammunition from an ammunition vendor.

(5) The California Constitution requires the state to reimburse local agencies and school districts for certain costs mandated by the state. Statutory provisions establish procedures for making that reimbursement.
This bill would provide that no reimbursement is required by this act for a specified reason.
__________________
Calguns Wiki, Magazine Qs, Knife laws

Ask CA law questions in the How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me Forum - most questions that start 'Is it legal ...' go there.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.

Heller was 2008. McDonald was 2010. Things started getting bad with GCA-1968.
It takes time to unwind 40 years of bad law.

Last edited by Librarian; 12-21-2012 at 11:30 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:25 AM
Moonshine Moonshine is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,053
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

This language is vague enough that they can make these permits as hard to obtain as assault weapons permits!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:26 AM
nothinghere2c's Avatar
nothinghere2c nothinghere2c is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,207
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

very vague. Thanks for the update!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:28 AM
Moonshine Moonshine is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,053
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

They're not saying what the reasons are for permit issuance/denial and therefore leaving it up to the DOJ. It sounds to me like many permits will be denied and ammunition access will be VERY limited.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:32 AM
TacoJockey's Avatar
TacoJockey TacoJockey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Folsom
Posts: 306
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

(c) Commencing on September 1, 2014, only those persons listed below or those persons or entities listed in subdivision (d) shall be permitted to purchase ammunition. Prior to the delivery of the ammunition, the vendor shall verify that the person who is receiving delivery of the ammunition is a properly identified person or entity listed in subdivision (d) or one of the following:
(1) A holder of a valid ammunition purchase permit issued pursuant to Section 30370.
(2) A person who is authorized to carry loaded firearms pursuant to Section 25900, 25905, 25910, 25925, 26010, 26015, 26025, or 26030.


Appears to exempt CCW holders from needing the ammo permit.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:37 AM
Hoooper Hoooper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Petaluma
Posts: 2,302
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

if there were a proposed gun bill counter it would be going up as fast as the debt clock
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:48 AM
Diablohtr Diablohtr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 162
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Retracted.

Last edited by Diablohtr; 12-21-2012 at 11:55 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:52 AM
stphnman20's Avatar
stphnman20 stphnman20 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SCV
Posts: 6,605
iTrader: 26 / 100%
Default

tagged
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:54 AM
Moonshine Moonshine is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,053
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

I was going to say something but it would just provide assistance in writing this bill... Hmm... MAYBE WE SHOULD ALL STAY QUIET.......
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:55 AM
shooting4life's Avatar
shooting4life shooting4life is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Lorenzo
Posts: 5,588
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Default

Here we go again.
__________________
WTB - BFR in 45-70

WTS - S&W 27-2 3.5 Barrel with Box and Presentation Case

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1021514
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:56 AM
SilverTauron SilverTauron is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,705
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Now out of state visitors to CA have to furnish a CCW or ownership ID to purchase ammo.Yay.
__________________
The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous people will be.
The more subsidies you have, the less self reliant people will be.
-Lao-Tzu, Tau Te Ching. 479 BCE

The 1911 may have been in wars for 100 years, but Masetro Bartolomeo Beretta was arming the world 400 years before John Browning was ever a wet dream.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:04 PM
mag360 mag360 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 5,021
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Loose lips sink ships boys.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:07 PM
Moonshine Moonshine is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,053
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Last time SB-249 came up language from this forum made it into the bill. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:07 PM
13withinfinity's Avatar
13withinfinity 13withinfinity is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 788
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

So whos gunna pay for all this courts are certainly broke as hell
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:18 PM
Sinestr's Avatar
Sinestr Sinestr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Smells like cow shi+
Posts: 652
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Cross post
__________________
"Strength Determination Merciless Forever"
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:19 PM
Sousuke Sousuke is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 473
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
Last time SB-249 came up language from this forum made it into the bill. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
It would be nice if we could get one comment regarding odds of passing from the legal experts. That way maybe I can stop doing this:

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:21 PM
nothinghere2c's Avatar
nothinghere2c nothinghere2c is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,207
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

just relax, and don't show your cards :-)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:22 PM
13withinfinity's Avatar
13withinfinity 13withinfinity is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 788
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sousuke View Post
It would be nice if we could get one comment regarding odds of passing from the legal experts. That way maybe I can stop doing this:

Thats only helping them out too. If they think they can pass it and the legal experts think otherwise, wouldnt it be smart to let them play thier hand first?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:24 PM
Hoooper Hoooper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Petaluma
Posts: 2,302
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sousuke View Post
It would be nice if we could get one comment regarding odds of passing from the legal experts. That way maybe I can stop doing this:
theres no way to answer that though. I dont have enough knowledge to say anything about its passing, but if an "expert" says its not going to pass then there can likely be work done to get it to pass. If someone says it will pass, then the panic continues. It only makes sense, especially with CA gov as it is, to expect that it will pass and plan accordingly and then if it doesnt its no biggie to you
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:25 PM
Sousuke Sousuke is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 473
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 13withinfinity View Post
Thats only helping them out too. If they think they can pass it and the legal experts think otherwise, wouldnt it be smart to let them play thier hand first?
Maybe, I'm mainly afraid it will sit in the courts for years before action is taken.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:36 PM
Moonshine Moonshine is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,053
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

I will say one thing though, they are going up against a opponent flush with cash and determination and they are doing so with a bankrupt state and bankrupt court. Lets not give them anything until we take them to court where we have the advantage.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:39 PM
tackdriver tackdriver is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 484
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

I am quite sure Brown would veto a bill this wacko. More than I can say for the guy he replaced however....
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:42 PM
dustoff31 dustoff31 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Live in AZ, 2nd Home in So. CA
Posts: 7,566
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 13withinfinity View Post
So whos gunna pay for all this courts are certainly broke as hell
People who buy ammo will pay for it. You don't think those permits are going to be free do you?
__________________
"Did I say "republic?" By God, yes, I said "republic!" Long live the glorious republic of the United States of America. Damn democracy. It is a fraudulent term used, often by ignorant persons but no less often by intellectual fakers, to describe an infamous mixture of socialism, miscegenation, graft, confiscation of property and denial of personal rights to individuals whose virtuous principles make them offensive." - Westbrook Pegler
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:53 PM
13withinfinity's Avatar
13withinfinity 13withinfinity is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 788
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustoff31 View Post
People who buy ammo will pay for it. You don't think those permits are going to be free do you?
That is if the DOJ issues them to begin with. :P
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-21-2012, 1:17 PM
john67elco's Avatar
john67elco john67elco is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Alta Loma
Posts: 3,182
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

So im good with the 240,000 rounds I currently own? Cool deal.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by rugershooter View Post
.....In fact, the majority of people don't want freedom and wouldn't know what to do with it even if they had it.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-21-2012, 1:18 PM
CBruce's Avatar
CBruce CBruce is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,994
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Isn't ammunition protected by the same 2nd ammendment rights as firearms? Thought there was precedent for that.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-21-2012, 1:33 PM
nrgcruizer's Avatar
nrgcruizer nrgcruizer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 425
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

How much do you guys want to bet that Deleon & Yee, or their staff, have an account trolling this site right now?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-21-2012, 1:35 PM
Moonshine Moonshine is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,053
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Their staff is on this site reading these posts. Lose lips sink ships... Err legal challenges heh!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-21-2012, 1:42 PM
rodeoflyer's Avatar
rodeoflyer rodeoflyer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: San Fernando
Posts: 1,016
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBruce View Post
Isn't ammunition protected by the same 2nd ammendment rights as firearms? Thought there was precedent for that.
DROS

Handgun Registration (and long gun soon)

BFSC

Thumbprint for ammo (LA City)


The 2nd Ammendment didn't stop any of that did it?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyt16 View Post
I know the safety nazis will kill me for this, but there's nothing like a mag dump of .223 tracer rounds at night out of your AR with a little bit of firewater in your system. Man what a feeling!
"Combining blanks and cleaning rods in the M16A2 rifle is not an acceptable means of acquiring “meat for the tribe.” It should be noted it’s a b**ch unpinning a squirrel from a tree and you NEVER get your cleaning rod back."
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-21-2012, 1:43 PM
211275 211275 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 334
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

If this passes and goes into effect Sept 1st 2014, I will be moving out of this bull**** state on or before Aug 31st 2014. I will take my successful business and tax dollars out of state and hope this crooked state goes further into debt.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 12-21-2012, 1:45 PM
Moonshine Moonshine is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,053
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

When they started finger printing up here in Sacramento, shops in Placer county started getting more of my business. Ammo licenses will hurt California businesses and create more unemployment.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12-21-2012, 2:11 PM
FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!'s Avatar
FABIO GETS GOOSED!!! FABIO GETS GOOSED!!! is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Beverly Hills, California
Posts: 2,529
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
Last time SB-249 came up language from this forum made it into the bill.
Which language? Just curious, thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-21-2012, 2:12 PM
wildhawker's Avatar
wildhawker wildhawker is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: California
Posts: 14,407
iTrader: 84 / 100%
Default

Moonshine forgets that the broadening of 249 was a good thing.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-21-2012, 2:54 PM
mosinnagantm9130's Avatar
mosinnagantm9130 mosinnagantm9130 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Places
Posts: 8,073
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

AB962 anyone?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodEyeSniper View Post
My neighbors think I'm a construction worker named Bruce.

Little do they know that's just my stripper outfit and name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopperX View Post
I am currently cleaning it and I noticed when I squeeze the snake this white paste like substance comes out. What the heck is this crap?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff L View Post
Don't D&T a virgin milsurp rifle. You'll burn in collector hell.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12-21-2012, 3:09 PM
AAShooter's Avatar
AAShooter AAShooter is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,334
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

So I go through an annual background check to buy ammo but my CCW is good for multiple years? Makes no sense.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 12-21-2012, 3:13 PM
FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!'s Avatar
FABIO GETS GOOSED!!! FABIO GETS GOOSED!!! is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Beverly Hills, California
Posts: 2,529
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!! View Post
Which language? Just curious, thanks.
Nevermind, brain fart, I was thinking about the handgun ammo bill (AB 962).
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 12-21-2012, 3:14 PM
chris's Avatar
chris chris is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: O.C. CA. now Occupied Territory.
Posts: 16,480
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
This language is vague enough that they can make these permits as hard to obtain as assault weapons permits!
That's the goal. A permit means that you need permission to buy ammo. This their goal one way or another the Democrats will take away our rights guns first.
__________________
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boberama View Post
Ok. You should know how to play. I say I see something that begins with a letter.
You find out what it is.
I spy with my little eye something that begins with a "C".
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInSoCal View Post
Chlamydia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyXbones View Post
The silhouette of an AR-15 is as appealing to the general public as a dildo.
In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend.
When Hell is full the dead will walk the Earth. (Dawn of the Dead)
NRA Life Member.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 12-21-2012, 3:20 PM
chris's Avatar
chris chris is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: O.C. CA. now Occupied Territory.
Posts: 16,480
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustoff31 View Post
People who buy ammo will pay for it. You don't think those permits are going to be free do you?
Permits won't be issued that's the point. And they know it.
__________________
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boberama View Post
Ok. You should know how to play. I say I see something that begins with a letter.
You find out what it is.
I spy with my little eye something that begins with a "C".
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInSoCal View Post
Chlamydia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyXbones View Post
The silhouette of an AR-15 is as appealing to the general public as a dildo.
In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend.
When Hell is full the dead will walk the Earth. (Dawn of the Dead)
NRA Life Member.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 12-21-2012, 3:30 PM
nicki's Avatar
nicki nicki is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,099
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default real world results.

Our opponents are practicing the death by a 1000 cuts.

Of course since this bill will affect all gun owners, we can use their proposals to get more people on our side to get of their ***es and get involved.

Collectively we got the government we deserve because our fellow gun owners wouldn't pull their weight to protect gun rights.

The reality is only a small percentage of gun owners do anything, if the percentage of gun owners who got involved jumped from 1 percent to 10 percent, we wouldn't be having these problems.

In all honesty, in an ideal world, we would have 100 percent participation.

Last edited by nicki; 12-21-2012 at 3:32 PM.. Reason: add
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-21-2012, 3:57 PM
JSolie's Avatar
JSolie JSolie is offline
Snoot lickin' good!
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Murrieta, CA
Posts: 2,246
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mag360 View Post
Loose lips sink ships boys.
Quoted for truth.

Don't help them write a better bill.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 3:01 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.