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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #161  
Old 01-09-2013, 4:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minuteman View Post
Has already been reported:

http://www.berkeleyside.com/2013/01/...unition-sales/

http://www.californiareport.org/archive/R201301080850/a

And probably a hundred other sites.
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  #162  
Old 01-09-2013, 4:32 PM
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Should I be buying loads of ammo, or has this bill already passed I am confused.
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  #163  
Old 01-09-2013, 4:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Gun_Owner_901 View Post
Should I be buying loads of ammo, or has this bill already passed I am confused.
Good luck finding ammo and no it hasn't passed yet.
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  #164  
Old 01-09-2013, 4:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Dantedamean View Post
Good luck finding ammo and no it hasn't passed yet.
I haven't had any problem finding ammo, I was at Wal-Mart earlier today and they were stocked pretty good, I've to wait until Friday though.
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  #165  
Old 01-09-2013, 4:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun_Owner_901 View Post
Should I be buying loads of ammo, or has this bill already passed I am confused.
Please read the stickies, so you have a handle on the process; they were linked in the first post, but to repeat:

How to read a bill: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=161873

How a bill becomes law: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=591209
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Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
the details do not matter until the Governor signs or allows the bill to become law.

Ask CA law questions in the How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me Forum
- most questions that start 'Is it legal ...' go there.

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  #166  
Old 01-09-2013, 5:25 PM
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Originally Posted by LOW2000 View Post
http://nancyskinnerforassembly.com/
We need to fund more community-based policing so that police can connect with the community where they serve. This will provide officers with a better understanding of the issues in that community, and the social services available to address their needs.
Not a good idea. Doesn't work out very well when there's too much understanding.

Quote:
Los Angeles County Sheriff's officials created an elaborate sting operation to investigate whether a respected captain was secretly passing information to a suspected drug dealer, according to records reviewed by The Times.

Capt. Bernice Abram was believed to be giving information to Dion Grim, the suspected drug dealer.
....
An FBI investigation into Abram is ongoing, a spokeswoman said.

The Sheriff's Department placed Abram on leave along with her niece, a custody assistant whom prosecutors said improperly accessed a law enforcement database for Grim. They remain on leave and together have collected more than an estimated $300,000 in salary as the sheriff's internal probe continues, based on posted county salaries.

Abram first met Grim after she started dating his father three years ago, prosecutors said. (According to her Sheriff's Department biography, Abram, 53, was married to another man.) She became "good friends" with Grim, 36, a member of the Original Front Hood Crips, a Compton street gang.


That's what happens when there's too much connection and understanding with the community.

This is also why the FBI was effective at greatly diminishing the power of the Italian mafia families in NY. The mafia families could always count on their connections and understandings with local police, but outsiders, who didn't have any connection with them, were a lot tougher to crack.

Community policing and close connections to the community are contrary to solving gang problems and the "don't snitch" problem we have.
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  #167  
Old 01-09-2013, 8:43 PM
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Soooo...is it too early to start typing/writing representatives yet?
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  #168  
Old 01-10-2013, 4:28 AM
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Originally Posted by CCWFacts View Post
Not a good idea. Doesn't work out very well when there's too much understanding.




That's what happens when there's too much connection and understanding with the community.

This is also why the FBI was effective at greatly diminishing the power of the Italian mafia families in NY. The mafia families could always count on their connections and understandings with local police, but outsiders, who didn't have any connection with them, were a lot tougher to crack.

Community policing and close connections to the community are contrary to solving gang problems and the "don't snitch" problem we have.
A old friend of mine worked for the Department of Agriculture in Zimbabwe, it was called tribalism, it was rampant. Your tribe was more important than who you worked for.
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  #169  
Old 01-10-2013, 6:27 AM
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A old friend of mine worked for the Department of Agriculture in Zimbabwe, it was called tribalism, it was rampant. Your tribe was more important than who you worked for.
Who puts state before family after all?
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  #170  
Old 01-10-2013, 6:59 AM
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We all know that climate in California as far as gun ownership has changed compared to 10 years ago, even 5. Guns are alot more popular now in this state, than ever before. Instead of fighting these stupid laws one after the other, a long drawn out process, why don't we band together and fight fire with fire. I'm ok with lawyers fighting these laws but what about actively lobbying and supporting candidates who support our community. What about starting a grassroots movement and getting each and everyone of us involved besides just sending a check? For chissakes...if the marijuana people can do it, why can't we?

I think a big part of the problem here is that the members here give these whacky san fran liberals way too much power. To much crying, running and hoping. Its high time we actually go on the offense.

Last edited by SPUTTER; 01-10-2013 at 7:03 AM..
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  #171  
Old 01-10-2013, 8:25 AM
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Originally Posted by SPUTTER View Post
We all know that climate in California as far as gun ownership has changed compared to 10 years ago, even 5. Guns are alot more popular now in this state, than ever before. Instead of fighting these stupid laws one after the other, a long drawn out process, why don't we band together and fight fire with fire. I'm ok with lawyers fighting these laws but what about actively lobbying and supporting candidates who support our community. What about starting a grassroots movement and getting each and everyone of us involved besides just sending a check? For chissakes...if the marijuana people can do it, why can't we?

I think a big part of the problem here is that the members here give these whacky san fran liberals way too much power. To much crying, running and hoping. Its high time we actually go on the offense.
The problem in California is LA, not San Francisco. We all know SF, Davis, and Berzerkeley are and always have been hippie havens where pie in the sky dreams are confused with reality but, the LA metro area happens to have more than half the population of this state. The rest of the state is held hostage to the whims of whatever LA wants. For how many years has NoCal been paying sky high rates for water so that folks in SoCal can have pretty lawns? What about phone rates and utility rates we have to pay because of the millions of subsidized freebies in LA? You can blame this all on SF or Sac if you want but the reality is that it's LA and it's swarms of 17 million people, and not the Bay Area, that decides what happens to the rest of us.

You can scream and yell in SF or Sac as much as you like but until you get LA on board, (or split the state in two), it isn't gonna mean diddly. Personally I don't think LA is salvageable and would support NoCal seceding from SoCal. I'd like the line drawn pretty much at the center of the Golden Gate. That would leave the North With Berkeley but even Texas has it's Austin.

I'm not trying to be argumentative but if you're going to be pointing fingers, at least point them in the right direction. And no, I'm neither a Democrat or a Liberal.
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  #172  
Old 01-10-2013, 8:38 AM
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Upon hearing this, the gangstas & criminals collectively shook their heads in disbelief & said, "that's it, the final blow, we'll have to move to another state because the law in CA has made it virtually impossible for us to become armed criminals."
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  #173  
Old 01-10-2013, 8:49 AM
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Originally Posted by C.W.M.V. View Post
Soooo...is it too early to start typing/writing representatives yet?
I am wondering this myself.

This should start out in a committee, but do all firearms related bills start out in their respective legislative chambers safety committee before going to appropriations?

However, reading Librarian's how a bill becomes a law link it seems this will sit until a budget is passed around May or June. But will this be fast tracked by political opportunists who do not want the topic to die down over time?

For now I think we should focus on members of the initial committee reviewing this bill. Reaffirmate committee supporters of the 2nd Am, briefly state our arguments to any potential fence sitters, and finally state objection to enemies of the 2nd Am.

But importantly asking again, WHICH COMMITTEE (SAFETY)?
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  #174  
Old 01-10-2013, 8:50 AM
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Originally Posted by WokMaster1 View Post
Upon hearing this, the gangstas & criminals collectively shook their heads in disbelief & said, "that's it, the final blow, we'll have to move to another state because the law in CA has made it virtually impossible for us to become armed criminals."
Nah, they'll just rob people with unloaded guns...

No impact on crime from this measure that I can determine.
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  #175  
Old 01-10-2013, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by IPSICK View Post
I am wondering this myself.

This should start out in a committee, but do all firearms related bills start out in their respective legislative chambers safety committee before going to appropriations?

...

But importantly asking again, WHICH COMMITTEE (SAFETY)?
Essentially yes - things modifying the Penal Code go to first to the Public Safety Committee of the house where the bill is introduced. In this case, Assembly Public Safety - http://apsf.assembly.ca.gov/
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Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
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  #176  
Old 01-10-2013, 11:56 AM
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Well consequences of the democratic supermajority in CA, lead to 5 Dems and 2 Rep on the Assembly Safety Committee. I'll just have to voice opposition to the authors' staff, give reasoned arguments to the other 3 Dems, and hopefully just support for their opposition to the 2 Repubs.
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  #177  
Old 01-10-2013, 1:07 PM
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Default read the text of the Bill

This is the text of the bill:
CALIFORNIA LEGISLATURE— 2013–2014 REGULAR SESSION

Assembly Bill No. 48

Introduced by Assembly Member Skinner
(Coauthor(s): Assembly Member Ammiano)
(Coauthor(s): Senator De León)

December 20, 2012

An act to amend Sections 16740, 16890, and 32390 of, and to add Sections 16740.5, 30301, and 32311 to, the Penal Code, relating to firearms.


LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST

AB 48, as introduced, Skinner. Firearms: ammunition: sales.
(1) Except as specified, existing law makes it a crime to manufacture, import, keep for sale, offer or expose for sale, or give or lend any large-capacity magazine, and makes a large-capacity magazine a nuisance. Existing law defines “large-capacity magazine” to mean any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds but excludes, in pertinent part, a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that the magazine cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
This bill would make it a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine of not more than $1,000 or imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed 6 months, or by both that fine and imprisonment, to knowingly manufacture, import, keep for sale, offer or expose for sale, or give or lend any device that is capable of converting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacity magazine. The bill would revise the definition of “large-capacity magazine” to mean any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, including a readily restorable, as defined, disassembled large-capacity magazine, and an oversize magazine body that appears to hold in excess of 10 rounds. The bill would make related, conforming changes. By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.
(2) Existing law prohibits any person, corporation, or dealer from selling ammunition to a person under 18 years of age, selling ammunition designed for use in a handgun to a person under 21 years of age, or providing possession of any ammunition to any minor who the person, corporation, or dealer knows is prohibited from possessing that ammunition at that time. Existing law prohibits a person, corporation, or firm from giving possession or control of ammunition to any person who he or she knows is prohibited by law from possessing ammunition. Existing law also regulates handgun ammunition vendors and provides that a handgun ammunition vendor shall not permit any employee who the vendor knows or reasonably should know is a person who has been convicted of a felony or other specified crimes to handle, sell, or deliver handgun ammunition in the course and scope of employment.
This bill would require anyone in the state, prior to selling, transferring, or otherwise furnishing ammunition to an individual or business entity in this state or any other state to require proper identification, as prescribed, to be an authorized firearms dealer, and to report the sales to the Department of Justice. An individual who fails to make the required report or who knowingly makes a report with false or fictitious information would be guilty of a misdemeanor, as specified. By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.
The bill would require the department to alert local law enforcement entities in the community in which the purchaser resides if an individual purchaser who is not a peace officer obtains more than ____ rounds within a 5-day period.
(3) The California Constitution requires the state to reimburse local agencies and school districts for certain costs mandated by the state. Statutory provisions establish procedures for making that reimbursement.
This bill would provide that no reimbursement is required by this act for a specified reason.
Digest Key
Vote: MAJORITY Appropriation: NO Fiscal Committee: YES Local Program: YES
Bill Text
The people of the State of California do enact as follows:

SECTION 1.
Section 16740 of the Penal Code is amended to read:

16740.
(a) As used in this part, “large-capacity magazine” means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, including, but shall not be construed limited to include any of the following:, a readily restorable disassembled large-capacity magazine and an oversize magazine body that appears to hold in excess of 10 rounds. A magazine body is not a large-capacity magazine if it is only of sufficient size to accommodate no more than 10 rounds of ammunition and the internal working parts of the magazine, including the follower and spring.

(a)A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.

(b)A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.

(c)A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.
(b) As used in this section, “readily restorable” means magazine parts under the custody and control of an individual or individuals that can be assembled into a complete magazine.

SEC. 2.
Section 16740.5 is added to the Penal Code, to read:

16740.5.
As used in this part, a “large-capacity magazine” shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(a) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(b) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

SEC. 3.
Section 16890 of the Penal Code is amended to read:

16890.
As used in Section 16150, 16740, 30305, or 30515, “magazine” means any ammunition feeding device, including readily restorable disassembled magazines. For purposes of this section, “readily restorable” means magazine parts under the custody and control of an individual or individuals that can be assembled into a complete magazine.

SEC. 4.
Section 30301 is added to the Penal Code, to read:

30301.
(a) Anyone in this state, prior to selling, transferring, or otherwise furnishing ammunition to an individual or business entity in this state or any other state, shall do all of the following:
(1) Require proper identification from the purchaser in the form of a driver’s license or other photographic identification issued by a state or the federal government.
(2) Be an authorized firearms dealer, pursuant to Section 26500.
(3) Submit a report to the Department of Justice for all of the transactions, in a manner to be determined by the department.
(b) The Department of Justice shall alert local law enforcement entities in the community in which the purchaser resides if the purchaser obtains more than ____ rounds within a five-day period and the purchaser is an individual and not an authorized firearms dealer. The department is not required to alert local law enforcement of sales of ammunition made to peace officers.
(c) (1) Any individual who does not submit the report required by paragraph (3) of subdivision (a), or who knowingly submits a report with false or fictitious information, shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding six months, by a fine not exceeding five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.
(2) Any individual who has previously been convicted of a violation of paragraph (1) shall, upon a subsequent conviction thereof, be punished by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 of the Penal Code, or by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, by a fine not exceeding one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.

SEC. 5.
Section 32311 is added to the Penal Code, to read:

32311.
Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2014, any person in this state who knowingly manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives or lends any device that is capable of converting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacity magazine is punishable by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000) or imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed six months, or by both that fine and imprisonment.

SEC. 6.
Section 32390 of the Penal Code is amended to read:

32390.
(a) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, and in subdivision (b), any large-capacity magazine is a nuisance and is subject to Section 18010.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to the possession of a readily restorable disassembled large-capacity magazine or an oversize magazine body that has been permanently altered so that the magazine cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds by a person who lawfully possessed the magazine prior to January 1, 2014.

SEC. 7.
No reimbursement is required by this act pursuant to Section 6 of Article XIIIB of the California Constitution because the only costs that may be incurred by a local agency or school district will be incurred because this act creates a new crime or infraction, eliminates a crime or infraction, or changes the penalty for a crime or infraction, within the meaning of Section 17556 of the Government Code, or changes the definition of a crime within the meaning of Section 6 of Article XIIIB of the California Constitution.
Contact your assembly person in writing http://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/ and/or to the Assembly Committee on Public Safety, 916.319.3745 (fax).
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  #178  
Old 01-10-2013, 1:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randian View Post
snip
Probably best to limit speculation on the bill's weaknesses, lest you see those points addressed in revisions to the bill.
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  #179  
Old 01-10-2013, 2:30 PM
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The shooting in a SoCal High School today is going to add fuel to this gun debate fire. This is again going to fall on us.
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  #180  
Old 01-10-2013, 2:49 PM
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Originally Posted by The Wingnut View Post
This bill was likely constructed by a staff of advisors tasked to read this forum.

Illustrating all the shortcomings that are in this legislation as it's currently written gives them a roadmap to revise it. Should it pass, it will get jammed up in court by CGF and other entities. Let's not fight the grabbers' battle for them. Run silent, run deep, folks.
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  #181  
Old 01-10-2013, 6:00 PM
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How about some WW2 posters


Last edited by AlexDD; 01-10-2013 at 6:04 PM..
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  #182  
Old 01-10-2013, 7:06 PM
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this will do nothing to prevent gun violence in california, the people buying the most ammo are working citizens because the sh*t is expensive, nor is a criminal going to commit a crime where they will need any more than one box of ammo, who cares if your on a list with the DOJ if everyone in the state is on it as well
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  #183  
Old 01-10-2013, 8:24 PM
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How about some WW2 posters


Quoted for truth. Zip them lips.
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  #184  
Old 01-10-2013, 10:02 PM
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Someone tell Walmart to sick em' I buy ammo from them all the time.
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  #185  
Old 01-11-2013, 4:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexDD View Post
How about some WW2 posters

No doubt they bait discussion. Lot's of "new" members here lately.
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  #186  
Old 01-11-2013, 2:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Ford8N View Post
No doubt they bait discussion. Lot's of "new" members here lately.
Lots of troll accounts too.

Reported a few of them myself, but holy crap.

Nonsense about TV shows, posts full of garbage links. Sometimes 3 or 4 threads by the same person with the same crap in it.
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  #187  
Old 01-11-2013, 7:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford8N View Post
No doubt they bait discussion. Lot's of "new" members here lately.
yes... ans it's so blatant - if it wasn't so creepy it would almost be funny.
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  #188  
Old 01-11-2013, 8:08 PM
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Wrote a question, then saw the "Enemy is Listening" post, and I took it down.

Last edited by superbart3000; 01-11-2013 at 8:12 PM..
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  #189  
Old 01-11-2013, 9:30 PM
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Wrote a question, then saw the "Enemy is Listening" post, and I took it down.
smart man. I was going to comment on the previous good advice of silence...

But I did read your initial - so I will PM you what my understanding is (a part you might have missed) - even though you could be the cleaver one in disguise ...

In the mean time - I think I'll change my sig to the current message of "Enemy is Listening"... we probably all should
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:08 PM
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Of course, we should also note that suspicion and mistrust amongst Calgunners works to their advantage as well. AND lots of new members have joined because we have lots of new gun owners. Lets try not to alienate them too fast.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:17 PM
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Of course, we should also note that suspicion and mistrust amongst Calgunners works to their advantage as well. AND lots of new members have joined because we have lots of new gun owners. Lets try not to alienate them too fast.
Ditto
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Old 01-12-2013, 8:04 AM
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Of course, we should also note that suspicion and mistrust amongst Calgunners works to their advantage as well. AND lots of new members have joined because we have lots of new gun owners. Lets try not to alienate them too fast.
part of my post was tongue-in-cheek... and I agree with embracing "new" members...

However, it's very peculiar that lately there have been many "inquisitive" type posts from long time members with very few posts... seemingly asking "what is your view" (or what is the work-around) rather than help me learn something...

without citing each "inquisition" it's hard for me to give examples - but there have been several and it's very peculiar imo.

I will say, I am often over analytical and sometimes over skeptical - but I'd rather be cautious than foolish.
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Old 01-12-2013, 8:13 AM
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Originally Posted by LBDamned View Post
part of my post was tongue-in-cheek... and I agree with embracing "new" members...

However, it's very peculiar that lately there have been many "inquisitive" type posts from long time members with very few posts... seemingly asking "what is your view" (or what is the work-around) rather than help me learn something...

without citing each "inquisition" it's hard for me to give examples - but there have been several and it's very peculiar imo.

I will say, I am often over analytical and sometimes over skeptical - but I'd rather be cautious than foolish.
I noticed it too.

I also noticed a lot of new posters, and possibly new gun owners, that come here with view that California's byzantine and inneffective guns laws are normal or justified or, at worst, should be applied to the rest of the country. Either because they are 'common sense' or we can give the democrats that bone and they will leave us in peace. We already suffer under these laws, so who cares right?

I dont undertstand that attitute at all. Maybe I am getting old.
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Old 01-20-2013, 8:25 PM
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Just gonna throw an obvious one out here though but... Don't ammo purchases already require ID?

I mean.. you have to be a certain age to buy it..... and unless you're a crotchety old man/woman that obviously looks ancient they should be asking for ID anyways...
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Old 01-20-2013, 9:20 PM
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At what point do legal citizens simply give up and say, "f it" to this mess? I know I'm already there. I'm so tired of complying to the whims of these idiots.
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Old 01-20-2013, 9:35 PM
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At what point do legal citizens simply give up and say, "f it" to this mess? I know I'm already there. I'm so tired of complying to the whims of these idiots.
How about never?

Look, in California stuff is so messed up that I'm not really fighting for my right to keep and bear arms... I'm fighting for the rights of the next generation.

A lot of progress has been made in the last 10 years or so. There have been huge changes... The number of firearms owners in this state has increased dramatically. It's not time to throw in the towel. This is an endurance game that frankly, will never end.

At the end of the day, nothings been passed yet. If and when something like this does pass, there will be an appropriate response.

Remember... We deal with this every year. Some Sacramento politicians wake up, take the crayons out, go spend an hour in the sandbox, draw something up, and then put the bill up for consideration.

If you want to do something about it now... Start writing your representatives. Be respectful. Tell them that you do not support any new legislation that in any way restricts your right to keep and bear arms. OR Tell them that you don't specifically support AB48. --The second is my preferred option because it gives me a chance to regularly write them about any new legislation that's popped up and increases the volume of mail being sent to them.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:21 AM
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The question was posted "is it too late to write your Reps"? It's never too late. I get frustrated reading these threads. All I hear are complaints and very few solutions. Write your politicians, every week!!! Make sure that they know how you feel!!! If you don't and they take our rights away, you don't have a right to complain. My 2 cents.
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Old 01-31-2013, 8:42 PM
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While AB 962 got injunction based on being vague, the real "meat" behind the challenge to AB 962 was about a state trying to regulate interstate commerce. Should this bill pass, there is a ready lawsuit. This type of challenge has already been successfully applied in other states that tried the same trick with mail order tobacco.

The more these silly bills get introduced, the sooner we'll have some meaningful court precedents on our side which will forever close future attempts of this kind. This works for us.
Several states already have such laws. Why haven't they been overturned?
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Old 01-31-2013, 9:23 PM
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This is why you don’t do tradeoffs with the antis. One of the things that NRA got for outlawing newly manufactured full autos in 86 was not having to get ID and log ammo sales. We still have a forever ban on new MGs and the antis are taking back all their concessions one at a time.
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Old 01-31-2013, 9:26 PM
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Quote:
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Well, if it passes, it will weed out all the hoarders, paranoid delusionists, and nut cases, and I might actualy be able to go into the store and buy a friggin box of ammo. **** it, I'm gonna support the damn thing.
I'm sorry but that avatar is just wrong.
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